By NeonGameWave 1 Comments
Hold on tight. Fasten your seat belts. For KINGDOM HEARTS!
Now your probably wondering who is this character with the anime-stylish, fantasy look? You know the character whose falling in that gif... Or better yet who`s exactly is this Sora character? Well it all began when the first title of the RPG series called Kingdom Hearts was released March 28, 2002 for the PS2. This game really did speak to many and had sparks flying due to it`s distinctive characteristic that was shared between the magic of Disney and the strategy of Final Fantasy. Kingdom Hearts in other words won over many hearts (get it, cause the Kingdom Hearts series is about hearts?) due to it`s charm, uniqueness, honorary quality that paid respect to the FF series but it was really because of Square`s bold and bright decision to crossover their Final Fantasy property with that of the Disney umbrella of characters, and the reason why this is important is because that is how a character like Sora came to be. Now Sora started out as this young kid on Destiny Island who dreamed of seeing other worlds with his childhood friends Riku and Kairi. Seems normal right? But everything is but normal due to that day when the Heartless arrive (pretty much darkness in people`s hearts given form) and destroy Destiny Island which is Sora`s beloved home in the process of that happening his friend Riku is last seen to b engulfed by darkness as he enters into a dark portal while his friend Kairi is nowhere to be seen in the midst of all this, Sora is chosen by the Keyblade to be it`s wielder due to his pure heart and originally the Keyblade was meant for his friend Riku but due to his weakness to the darkness it instead chooses Sora. Sora would later meetup with new friends and later comrades such as Donald and Goofy as they were left with a note by King Mickey (he also wields his own Keyblade) to go and search out for the chosen Keyblade wielder who happened to be Sora. King Mickey was left in the Realm of Darkness so Sora`s role in this whole thing really speaks volumes of what this all really means. Sora, Donald and Goofy later then set out to find Riku, Kairi and King Mickey in their journey to save the many worlds from everlasting darkness. This even goes back further to times that predate things like the Keyblade, the Heartless, Light, Darkness and etc. And what that is basically is the Keyblade War a war between Light and Darkness there were three Keyblade wielders before Riku and Sora`s time their names were Aqua, Ven and Terra. Now Sora fits into this equation because Terra was the one who performed the Keyblade Inheritance Ceremony on Riku so that he could later become a Keyblade wielder but as I explained before with the darkness interfering with that purpose due to Riku`s own heart it then ended up in our awesome, magical and fantastical protagonist`s hands. As you already stated Conner_Wolf, your not too familiar with Kingdom Hearts and haven`t played the games but there is no need to worry as I will introduce to you an entertaining and enlightening video that acts as an awesome explainer for Sora and his universe.
Music to set the Mood!
Now before I get into Sora`s order of feats and how he exactly defeats Thor in this match, I will showcase mood setters and openers specific to Sora, this music brings back memories when it comes to me in my younger days, when I first started playing Kingdom Hearts (don`t worry I still play the games from time to time, as its still very awesome =D).
Now that everything has been introduced when it comes to the story, its universe and the good ol KH songs that the series is known for it is time to put the focus on Sora. I will be going in a specific order in regards to Sora`s all-around capabilities when it comes to what he can do and then I will showcase why these arguments actually validate Sora`s victory in the long term.
STRENGTH AND STRIKING:
I covered Sora`s basic stats (although there is much more to Sora than what was presented in part 1 when it came to his order of feats) for this part I will be discussing his versatility and skill as those two aspects deserve their own categories.
Sora faces off against Sephiroth for the first time and he`s only a 14 YEAR OLD kid! He stalemate him and even gets Cloud`s attention. Sephiroth as noted in the Jiminy Cricket Journals is the greatest swordsmen ever and notice how the wording, is shown. This draws parallels and comparisons with Sephiroth`s point of origin, and what I mean by that is the fact that the developers intended for this Sephiroth to be as close as possible to his FF counterpart. Jmarshmallow had a more connective way of conveying this although I disagreed with him as I believed the games to be the first canon which is why I rather use FF7 as a reference point for what Sephiroth can do rather than saying the characters are exact equals or that their canon to one another.
Once known as the greatest of swordsmen, his whereabouts have been unknown for some time. He challenged Sora to a one-on-one duel. No one knows why he has suddenly returned. Apparently, he and Cloud have crossed paths before.
"Final Fantasy VII"
Final Fantasy VII
An unsurpassed swordsman who was once revered as a hero.
For a long time Sephiroth's whereabouts were unknown, and no one can say for sure why he has returned.
He seems to have some connection to Cloud's past.
"POINT OF REFERENCE"
The reason why I`m highlighting this character so much is because the Lingering Will is pretty much the soul of Terra one of the original Keyblade wielders. Who has MUCH more experienced than Sora is when it comes to wielding a Keyblade and performing magic, he pretty much has godlike skill, his versatility is also very well versed. Sora defeats Terra at the age of 16 during KH2, Terra arguably is the hardest boss in the entire game and that says a lot about how powerful he is. Terra is also the reason why Sora is a Keyblade wielder in the first place as he essentially was the one to setup the Keyblade Inheritance Ceremony for Riku but as we both know that didn`t end up working out so then the Keyblade was passed on to Sora.
A mysterious man who appeared in the portal within Disney Castle.
Clad in armor, he controls the Keyblade and its power with more ease than Sora.
A young man in training to become a Keyblade Master. He and his fellow pupils Aqua and Ventus share a healthy rivalry and strong bond of friendship.
Though he is aware of the darkness in his heart, Terra refuses to accept it—and Master Xehanort's suggestions that it might be controlled have only deepened his quandary.
One of three Keyblade wielders who played a pivotal role in a historic clash more than a decade ago. Master Xehanort possessed his body, and although Aqua saved him, his heart may never find its way back where it belongs.
This same Terra was the protagonist of KH: Birth by Sleep.
You can watch Terra`s entire story unfold in order, this is a really awesome walkthrough for the character.
Sora takes on Cloud during his first visit to Olympus Coliseum and is able to defeat him. Sora being able to take Cloud when he is at his youngest and pretty much weakest (as he doesn`t get as much progress from Traverse Town to the Olympus Coliseum) is impressive. Cloud is a very skilled character and is also the enemy of Sephiroth and just like Sephiroth the notes that describe him in the Jiminy Cricket Journal reference his point of origin which is FF7.
A fighter hired by Hades to compete in the Coliseum. Despite his association with Hades, his heart remains untouched by the Heartless. Cloud keeps very much to himself, which makes him something of an enigma. What is he seeking?
"Final Fantasy VII"
A swordsman hired by Hades to take out Hercules. Cloud seeks the true memories he has lost.
Were they memories of someone dear to him, or memories of his hazy past?
Final Fantasy VII
A "SOLDIER" who effortlessly wields a hefty sword. He once fought against Sora and his friends under contract with Hades.
Cloud hates letting other people see what he's thinking, so he can be an enigma to other people.
He searches for Sephiroth, hoping to settle things once and for all with his inner darkness.
A buster sword-wielding soldier whose past failures continue to weigh on him.
Believing himself weak, Cloud sought out the secrets of a hero's strength, as well as the secrets darkness might hold. Hades tried to use these desires against him, but once Cloud realized he was being manipulated, he wisely joined forces with Sora and Hercules.
Sora faces Cloud for the second time during the Hades Paradox Cup but Cloud appears alongside Tifa, Yuffie and Leon. As shown in KH2, Cloud is wearing his FF7/Advent Children outfit now there are differences between the Cloud in Kingdom Hearts and the Cloud in Final Fantasy but there is a closeness in the character and the characteristics which is why I must showcase a point of reference for where the character originated.
"POINT OF REFERENCE"
Sora has a great deal of versatility and this is what makes him OP. His power-set which is composed of his magic, summons and drive forms is what makes him an all-around powerhouse. I will first be discussing his summons in detail and then his drive forms, the topic of his magic will be touched on but I will be saving those surprises for my next response.
Now Genie obviously originating from Disney`s Aladdin is probably Sora`s most powerful summon. He can fire off magical blasts and his toon force-esque nature is the aesthetic for a lot of his attacks. As shown in the KH manga and video game cutscenes he can also grant wishes just like his Aladdin counterpart.
Sora with the aid of Dumbo shrinks in size and utilizes water to force back enemies also he helps with flight and both him and Sora remain invulnerable for the time amount of time he is summoned.
Mushu when summoned launches multiple fireballs at the opponent and while he is not the most effective summon he still packs a punch.
Simba as a summon for Sora is very useful. His mode of attack is a command called Proud Roar which causes a lot of damage to nearby enemies.
When Sora summons Bambi, he will automatically drop forth multiple items based on the enemies that are defeated at the time or the amount of enemies present.
Tinker Bell is one of Sora`s more unique summons as she heals him actively whether or not damage is dealt. She never stops healing Sora and restoring him to health even when he has died, this makes her a very convenient summon.
Tinker Bell is also summoned alongside Peter Pan who offers Sora great offense when it comes to battling enemies his Never Land limit deals a sustainable amount of damage to enemies and with his magic he is able to draw enemies close to him.
With Stitch, Sora has a great defense against damage as Stitch actively deflects damage with his toon force like nature he utilizes the surface of the HUD screen and is able to assist Sora there by also attacking enemies from that angle.
Chicken Little similar to Tinker Bell heals Sora but what makes Stuart Little a little different is that heals Sora the more he lands successful hits on his enemies and he also increases Sora`s defense and launches baseballs at Sora`s enemies.
Now Valor Form is the first transformation that Sora experiences when it comes to his Drive forms. This form specifically places its emphasis on Sora`s attack power and his speed is also increased but at the price of letting go of his ability to perform magic in any way.
In this form Sora is able to move around smoothly and gracefully as he is also able to bombard his enemies with magical energy blasts. This form focuses more on Sora`s ability to utilize magic as it grants him quicker usage time for being able to apply magic.
Limit Form is pretty much a blast from the past in this form Sora does not only have the clothes from his KH1 appearance but he can use any of his Limit commands which he had in KH1 and use them for KH2.
This form is essentially a combination of Sora`s Valor and Wisdom Forms it pretty much focuses in on the aspects of magic and combat, Sora also wields two Keyblades in this form as well.
Sora`s most powerful form is Final Form. In this form every aspect is increase whether it be magic, strength, speed, aerial maneuverability and so on forth. Sora wields two Keyblades telekinetically and floats above the ground in this form his defense and offense is really over the top as he can perform magic and a series of attacks effectively.
One of more Sora`s unique forms is the Anti Form. Sora essentially becomes a heartless in this form, his combat maneuvering changes and his methods of attack are also different, he can manipulate darkness in this form however as strong and relentless as this form may be it still has its drawbacks.
This video serves as a fun highlight for everything I mentioned about the Drive Forms and Summons, also it showcases Sora`s Limit commands although those are more so exclusive to the Party Members at the time who are not going to be present in Sora`s fight against Thor, this video also serves as a kind of teaser for my next response when I decide to go into depth about Sora`s summons and transformations.
THE STRATEGY TO BEAT A GOD!
I will now explain how all of this information applies to the fight between Sora and Thor and I will also go over some of Sora`s magic which I will give more of an analysis on in my next response. Now I know almost everything there is to know about Thor, I read a lot of his comics (more so his modernized Marvel comics run) but I know what Silver Age Thor can do and I`ve been on MANY battles boards discussions as well as general discussions when it came to discussing Thor and where he ranks against certain characters. I actually believe Thor to be a little underestimated when it comes to his speed but I do believe that Sora will be blitzing Thor during the majority of this fight. Thor`s only advantages are durability, experience and strength while Sora`s advantages actually matter a lot more when it comes to where they count in a combat situated scenario. Sora is faster in pretty much every specific speed stat such as reflex, movement speed, aerial mobility, muscle memory, reaction time and etc. Sora also has the advantages in versatility and skill, while Thor is very skilled he doesn`t apply his skill as much as he does his strength. He`s more so a brawler who relies on his strength and Mjonir to be able to win fights, and he doesn`t fight as many skilled opponents as much as Sora does on a consistent basis. I will give a mini breakdown for each category and then conclude on both characters.
Strength - Thor`s advantage
Thor is obviously A LOT stronger than Sora is when it comes to overall physicality he has feats of busting planetoids and moons, and for Mjonir being able to destroy planets. Thor also has a lot more significant lifting feats than Sora does.
However, Sora`s speed and versatility cancels out this advantage, what is the point of having planetary strength when you cannot hit your opponent all too often if at all? Sora also has adept experience when it comes to fighting characters who possess a strength advantage most of Sora`s enemies possess the strength advantage yet Sora is able to beat them soundly.
Durability - Thor`s advantage
Thor is very durability as he can easily survive nukes, supernovas, attacks from the Hulk, has endured through reality warping, and has traded blows with planetary level characters.
But, Sora can bypass Thor`s durability as he can be phased by attacks from Wolverine, Hulk and Moondragon they have their methods when it comes to being able to hurt Thor. But Sora with EASE can cut through up to 6 skyscrapers and has the physical strength to knock them around while resisting gravitational pull. The Keyblade also being able to hurt immensely powerful foes like Hercules, Jafar, Sephiroth, Xemnas and other characters who are actually a lot more powerful than Thor proves it will be able to hurt Thor. Other Asgardians have also been able to hurt Thor to some degree with their enchanted weaponry but I doubt any of their weapons are on the level of the Keyblade add in Sora`s strength and speed, and he will definitely be able to wear Thor down when it comes to overall defense.
Now Sora`s durability is complicated as Sora could be argued as being a toon force character (as stated by Jmarshmallow) but the way I look at it is that Sora being a Toon like character will be able to survive things that he shouldn`t in his universe. He wears magical clothing and throughout all his games is equipped with magical items that are designed to increase his resistances and defenses. These examples act as strong evidence for Sora being a toon enforced character rather than a straight up Toon Force character as Sora is as much as a Final Fantasy character as he is a Disney one.
Similar to cartoon violence in Rated E games your not going to see a lot of blood and this correlates with Sora`s durability being the way it is in nature. Even the manga furthers this fact as it is also evidenced in the games.
Sora along with Goofy and Donald survive a meteorite crashing into them during the time they were traveling to a different world when using their Gummi Ship.
There are stars that appear above a character`s head when they receive damage as well which indicates the toon enforced nature. With that said, I do think Sora can endure through a couple of strikes from Thor although he doesn`t have to as he can easily dodge and avoid all of his attacks or use his magic to counter Thor and Thor will be holding back against a human character like he usually does especially considering Sora is only a kid (as of KH3 he`s 18 years old).
Experience - Thor`s advantage
Thor has more experience than Sora does but that is only because of how long he has lived as an Asgardian the things Thor experiences and endures through in no way exceeds what Sora has to endure through in the entirety of his series.
Like I said, experience doesn`t matter much when it has nothing to do with their skill. Sora`s experience equals Thor`s experiences in the Marvel universe it`s just that Thor has lived longer. Sora has already faced and beaten multiple opponents who were a lot more experienced than he was and Sora is only a young little kid most of the time when he is on his adventures its only by KH3 that he begins to mature more significantly.
Skill - Sora`s advantage
Thor is skilled but not that skilled especially compared to characters like Sephiroth, Terra, Leon, Squall, Cloud Strife, Roxas and so on so forth. He`s more so a brawler like I previously mentioned and he puts more of his effort and energy on strength rather than on the application of combat he doesn`t really think his way through situations as much as Sora does.
Intelligence also plays a part in the skill advantage. Thor is not unintelligent per say but he compared to someone like Sora he is lacking a bit. Sora`s more of the critical thinker when it comes to combat and he`s faced a variety of opponents who have inspired him to think a multitude of ways when it came to countering and maneuvering around certain advantages and disadvantages.
Versatility - Sora`s advantage
Thor has a powerset but he`s not really versatile a lot of his abilities are associated with thunder manipulation. Yes Thor can control the element of lightning and use it for a variety of effects such as weather control and much more it doesn`t make him a well versed character. A lot of his more exotic abilities were exclusive to his Silver Age days abilities like time control were rare on occasion also his ability to travel through dimensions is neat but not a combat ability.
Sora has more of a powerset when it comes to overall magic, he can summon many different types of characters, transform into a lot of different magical forms, he has many magical abilities (which I haven`t gotten into yet I will talk more about that in my next post) and has a lot of equipment as well when it comes to items.
Speed - Sora`s advantage
Thor has feats like traveling at the speed of light which is more so his travel speed than his combat speed, Thor can react at supersonic speeds as well and etc. And Mjonir can travel at the speed of light but Thor himself isn`t close to lightspeed when it comes to combat.
Thor isn`t exactly slow but he just isn`t fast enough. Sora blows him out of the water when it comes to overall speed. Sora can teleport (which he utilizes in combat more so than Thor does) and he`s massively hypersonic and has light-speed reaction also he`s faced faster characters who were brute types. Thor isn`t going to be able to keep up at all against someone like Sora who is just way too resourceful when it comes to movement.
And with all this said, Thor is definitely going down to Sora in the long run. I don`t see how he can lose when he has more of the advantages that are combat applicable. He`s more versatile, he`s way more faster and skilled as well as intelligent but also he has faced Thor like characters before when it comes to manipulating the elements or having godlike strength. Thor is stronger but he won`t be able to hit Sora enough times for that advantage to be able to matter and I actually don`t think he will be able to hit Sora. Thor is durable but Sora can hurt Thor with the Keyblade as he has the strength do it and the speed to apply it, the Keyblade also hurt characters who are much more higher than Thor on the food chain. Thor`s weather manipulation can be countered by Sora`s magic, and Sora can easily dodge a godblast which takes time to charge also I doubt Thor would resort to those tactics when fighting a human kid like Sora who won`t appear as any real threat and with both being in-character I tend to see the fight going this way. Once Thor is down for the count as in he will be KOed after a very engaging battle, it is in that time that Sora will help Sonic defeat Dr. Strange and with his versatility as well as combative attributes he will prove to be an amazing ally for Sonic.
Since I mentioned the topic of Kingdom Hearts and canonicity I shall elaborate on what exactly means. Now there was a good friend of mine and great debater who went by the name Jmarshmallow and he believed the characters to be the perfectly the same while I too was an avid KH fan, I disagreed with those statements. He relied too much on the context of the Disney cartoons and FF games rather than the KH context and the content it gave us. He went with the whole the creators being the ones to work on the games respectfully which I agreed with but my overall overview of it is this. The game is the first canon while the media associated with the game in particular such as the manga, novels and etc., is the second canon, the Disney movies and FF games can be made as points of reference to where the characters came from and what it means to KH. What is shown in some of the games cutscenes and within the manga supports the point of references the best and biggest example being Genie and Jafar from Aladdin.
This appears in every game pretty much giving credit to Disney, its license and trademark but more importantly is the evidence that is shown in-game and in-universe in other words what the Jiminy Cricket Journals reference and what is reinforced by the developers when discussing it in an interview.
The wacky spirit of the lamp. He spent centuries cooped up in the lamp till Aladdin found him. He must grant three wishes to whoever controls the lamp, even if they are evil.
He granted our wish by appearing in "Aladdin" (1992).
The spirit of the magic lamp, who has been freed by Aladdin with his third wish. Genie has joined forces with Sora and friends to rescue Jasmine from captivity. He will attack all locked-on targets with Showtime. Cost: 2 MP
He granted our wish by appearing in "Aladdin" (1992).
Genie spent ten thousand years stuck inside the magic lamp until Aladdin found him. After Genie helped Aladdin defeat Jafar, Aladdin used his third and final wish to set Genie free.
For Genie, it's a dream come true. Instead of being at every master's beck and call, he's enjoying a carefree life.
A bubbly, boisterous character who lives inside a magic lamp.
Here is an interview from Tetsuya Nomura himself the director and designer behind the Kingdom Hearts series.
-- So immediately after KINGDOM HEARTS 3D. I definitely won’t miss out on KINGDOM HEARTS χ and KINGDOM HEARTS Unchained χ. The new world that contains Rapunzel’s tower has received great feedback at E3.
Nomura: The Osaka development team wants to challenge themselves with Rapunzel’s hair. They are saying they want to use her hair for combat and it seems that the creators of Rapunzel are acknowledging our efforts.
-- A Disney creator endorsed it!
Nomura: Previously, I was dealing with classic works. This time, I have adopted a relatively new work. It’s so I can directly see the people who have been involved in that series. There are many times we have exchanged words while producing it so it can be represented more accurately.
And there`s more...
Why didn't we see many Disney characters in the new game?
TN: Well, Donald and Goofy were there -- and we've announced that we're collaborating with Tangled, something we touched upon in our E3 presentation. Compared to previous titles that we folded into Kingdom Hearts, we have a lot of creators still alive. The process of gaining approvals then is pretty different. Because the animation studios are actively involved, we want to polish up anything we meet to the standards we demand, before taking it to Disney to approval. The hair of [Tangled's] Rapunzel is so unique -- we want to make sure we can realize the vision before we show it.
So for the rest of the debate expect to see more of these points of reference for both Disney and Final Fantasy characters respectively.
Counters I: Three steps ahead!
I know your debating style, and you are an extremely talented debater, I like a lot of the threads that you participate in and I also do enjoy seeing your personal perspective on the character Thor in different CaVs, general discussion threads and etc., but I do disagree with a lot of the arguments that are made, before they are brought up here, I will cut the root.
Thor has a multitude of feats, at even his typical level, which show him reacting to insane levels of speed, a few of these should have context.
Thor is fast but not as fast as you are portraying him to be in personal words. In the scans dealing with Norrin, he was fighting in space which is where he is at his best when it comes to speed (travel speed) and he was serious against Silver Surfer, while Silver Surfer being the pacifist that he is was holding back considerably.
The scans dealing with Quicksilver are not that impressive. Pietro is known for being a "jobber" and he was toying with Thor.
In the scan with the Phoenix, the power really is a case by case basis as the level of power is dependent on the host at the time and its more so an abstract and abstracts are not known for their reflexes in the first place, if we are to go on a detail investigation on how these characters and their histories of feats actually work.
Thor used his travel speed to surprise Hermes, who wasn`t expecting an attack from the Thunder God so he caught him off guard and I don`t believe that Hermes has a lot of quantifiable feats unless if you were to include what was said about him in the official Greek Myths and we both know that the Marvel Hermes has no relation to that of the Hermes in Greek Mythology.
1. On that ship where Thor deflects asteroids, he's moving at around 120,000x the speed of light, possibly even more.
No he wasn`t. Thor admitted in that scan that he was having a bit of trouble with the asteroids which as shown in the scan were not even approaching speeds that were re-entry also Thor doesn`t operate at these speeds when in combat. Thor had to throw Mjonir (which operates at 2x the speed of light) to be able to destroy a huge number of them.
Thor is capable of reacting at nanosecond speeds.
Thor is fast but he`s not that fast and he doesn`t operate at these speeds unless he`s using travel speed.
Thor reacts to his hammer as it tries to kill him, deflects Hyperion-who has nanosecond fighting speeds, Silver Surfer's energy blast-the same post cosmic that blasts him across a universe in seconds-jukes Surfer hard, deflects a blitzing Sentry, reacts to Gladiator-another nanosecond fighter-and then even overwhelms him with his speed.
I disagree, in the scan dealing with Mjonir it looked like he summoned his hammer rather than straight out, out-reacted it. Hyperion is more impressive now than he was in that scan (scan looks outdated), also Hyperion may have FTL travel speed but I don`t recall any nanosecond speeds for him when in regards to combat speed. Silver Surfer like I said before was trying to talk to Thor in that fight and he wasn`t even going all out also Surfer`s travel speed is MFTL but he`s not known for his combat speed he relies on the power cosmic to perform a lot of his feats. Also, he`s not really a good fighter to begin with and against a brawling powerhouse type like Thor, he`s going down when in-character also there`s no proof that Surfer`s energy blasts were traveling at the speed of light as it is not concrete. Sentry if I`m not mistaken was unstable in his fight against Thor and he doesn`t have FTL reflexes or anything he has FTL travel speed, and Gladiator`s abilities are in correlation with his confidence so saying that he was fighting Thor at nanosecond speeds is pushing it a little bit.
Thor is even shown capable of processing the speeds of Scuttlebutt-moving hundreds of times the speed of light-and Gorr when he got blasted by King Odin lightyears away.
That has nothing to do with his consistent levels of combat speed, Thor is not the slowest character in fiction, I will admit that this statement can be a bit overplayed but it is true that he is a much slower character when compared to a lot of the other powerhouse type characters that he is put up against, and Gorr is not a speedster at all, and the fight with Gorr had context.
Now I only mention this to make a point. as I have been one of the debaters to stick up for his speed from time to time but this does give us clarification on current Thor`s levels. He`s not as impressive as his Silver Age incarnation and consistently has been outperformed by characters like Wolverine, Mongoose and so on so forth. There`s a pattern that pertains to his feats, the proof is there in regards to the showcasing of Thor`s speed, he may have a few high-ends here and there but at the center of it all or at least at the epicenter of it all he is not all too impressive especially since he is going up against a character like Sora who is VERY impressive when it comes to speed. Thor has never fought a character like Sora before but Sora has fought worse.
Here Mjolnir travels across a galaxy in about three seconds
I know of this feat and it is more so a feat for Mjonir than it is for Thor himself also Thor`s best attribute when it comes to having an argument for his speed, is his not his combat speed, he`s fast while in the air but not while on the ground.
With all the people I've debated with, the one thing I've heard repeatedly is "Thor has no combat speed"
I made a comment on this thread and I liked your overall opinion on a few things relating to Thor but I disagree with some of the things that were said as well.
Thor has combat speed but its just not that impressive when compared to other types of characters his combat speed is not his travel speed.
Also here is my comment:
And then when I show them feats against an FTL character, who clearly uses their speed against opponents of equal strength and power, they somehow magically forget to use their speed against him, as claimed by people I debate against.
I understand where you are coming from but from my understanding it is more about the character not always using the best of their feats in every comic that they are featured in. Against Silver Surfer its true that he holds back quite a lot, against Gladiator his confidence is what creates his feats for him, but against characters like Sentry and Hyperion its not enough to say that Thor has FTL reflexes, its not consistent but his low-ends for some reason are, so I would say based on just consistency alone that Thor isn`t the fastest character when it comes to reflex, reaction time and overall combat speed. He`s superhumanly fast but that`s how far it goes in regards to his feats he`s not a speed-type character, he`s a powerhouse character he engages in close quarters combat most of the time.
This is apparently a phenomenon that stretches far back into the history of Marvel comics, and perhaps a secret shared by every Thor comic writer if they are correct. This could in fact mean that Thor has the superpower to negate the speed of whoever he's fighting.
I like the idea but it is more so a theory than anything and there`s nothing that has been said in regards to confirmation from any of the Thor writers, its not a Zoom thing where everything is slowing down to his perceptions, its never been mentioned before.
I mean it must be true if every time I post a speed feat people say "They didn't use their speed against Thor" I mean it's the only wayhe could react to them on such a consistent basis. This would give him nearly a dozen feats of doing so against people he fights and mean he can ctrl+a+delete all speed.
And based on the thread, it seemed more like a joke than anything but I did take you seriously throughout the thread and I was open minded to all of your arguments. I don`t think Thor`s a slow poke but compared to most characters he just wouldn`t seem all too impressive when it comes to speed.
This is what Sora and Riku managed to do while injured and in a constant struggle with a high-tier reality warper like Xemnas. They had to react to all of his Ethereal Blades from all angles, and they did this just based on reflex alone remember Sora can also teleport while in combat and he can amp his aerial capabilities with abilities like Flowmotion, and etc.
I may only have basic knowledge on my opponents but I see no way they could possibly defeat Strange. The way I see it, there is a massive legion of options Strange could choose to defeat Sora and Sonic.
Sora alone will be a problem for Strange considering his experience against overly powered magic types. Sora also has A LOT of resistance when it comes to magic and while that is true, Sora shouldn`t be counted out and neither should Sonic. Also, Strange will be busy fighting Sonic while Sora will be busy fighting Thor so him being able to take on both Sora and Sonic is void.
Dr. Strange can just say "sleep" and they'd sleep:
Sora`s clothing is magical as it was created by the combined efforts of the three magical fairies. They give him significant resistance to magic and his outfit has special powers as stated by the fairy Fauna. And as you can see they are also responsible for Sora`s Drive Forms which furthers his resistances when it comes to magic.
"POINT OF REFERENCE"
The fairies have Maleficent`s curse turned around for Aurora`s good, instead of dying by pricking her finger on the day of her 16th birthday she will instead fall into a slumber.
He can just turn their blood into ice by just saying it:
This is nothing new to Sora as he has resisted much more colder temperatures before.
Strange can turn them into snowmen with a single pass:
Sora`s magical defense will prevent that from happening the characters that Strange has managed to affect don`t have any special defense against magic or at least his magic, the best example so far that was emphasized was Dormammu but even then Strange has all the knowledge in the world when it comes to knowing Dormammu and how he works, or just how to counter him.
Sora was able to revert back to normal even when turned into a giant dice by Luxord`s magic and he was still able to fight back similar to what was shown in Dragon Ball during the time that Vegito was transformed into a piece of chocolate, as despite being transformed by Buuhan`s candy beam he was still able to fight back in that state.
He can just BFR them to some random dimension with just a wave of his hand:
That`s nothing really. Sora could just use Warp on himself to teleport back or he could just summon Genie and have him return him back to the battlefield.
And this is what Genie can do...
Sora majority of the time during Kingdom Hearts is tossed into another dimension when he`s up against a reality warper or magic user so I don`t see how this would be anything different, so even if Sora for some reason could not escape the dimension, all it would mean is that Sora would just have to take Strange down like he does any other big boss on any other day, with the fight being in a different dimension.
He can erase their memories instantly:
Strange did that to a bunch of regular people and in that context he did it for their own good it wasn`t during a combat situation that he was able to do this. And the Kingdom Hearts series is ALL ABOUT memories as Sora does have a defense in this regard as well.
Sora went up against Zexion who like Strange is prolific when it comes to the performance of magic, he stole all of Sora`s commands, pretty much his move-set, yet Sora was able to have his abilities returned to him. And that is only one of his abilities, he can also have Sora trapped in one of his magic books, but Sora can free himself unlike Donald and Goofy, also Sora was able to take him down in his own dimension.
And that`s in regards to how much resistance Sora has when it comes to these kinds of things, there`s hundreds more. But I`ll provide two more.
Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories is literally about Sora entering Castle Oblivion only to have his memories robbed but this doesn`t stop him from fighting off a lot of the Organization 13 members that are present. Also all of the worlds that are presented in the playing experience of the game are actually made up of Sora`s memories and he is able to have his memories retrieved by the end of the game although there was context the point is that memory manipulation is the last thing that Sora should be worried about.
And if you are still not convinced, there`s KH: Re:coded, Strange`s ability to wipe people`s minds clean can`t hold a candle to what Sora has to deal with on a regular basis as he has to actually battle it out with his own memories.
So I must ask you and Strange this important question....
He could restrain them with the a mere gesture:
This wouldn`t work. Strange being able to restrain a random possessed farmer doesn`t automatically translate to him being able to effectively restrain Sora who has a lot of default defenses that are setup against magic. Sora`s been restrained before by worse opponents and has gotten through the fight till the very end. Although Xemnas did more so use his ethereal energy to drain away Sora`s vitality in the first example, it still acted as a form of restrain and while Sora did receive help from Riku in the second example, its still a showing worth showcasing.
Once more, with someone as insanely versatile as Strange who possesses countless spells, this is just a small fraction of options Strange can employ and not even half of them have been explored but this at least should be a good starting point and we can delve deeper into that as the CaV goes on. Honestly, I'd argue Strange would take this with the greatest of ease by himself so adding Thor to back him up just seems like overkill to me.
Strange is versatile but so is Sora, and even with his versatility Strange is a character widely known for his preparedness. He usually has knowledge on his opponents especially when facing his more dangerous opponents such as Dormammu, Baron Mordo, Dr. Doom, Mephisto, Shuma Gorath and so on so forth. The Sanctum Sanctorum provides him with the resources necessary to be able to know what he is going up against, but against characters like Sonic and Sora he isn`t going to win at all without prep or prior knowledge. Sora will beat Thor without too much trouble especially considering he`s in-character and there are a lot of things that I will like to address about Strange when it comes to his own character.
- Strange using an ice related spell to freeze Sora`s blood seems iffy to me. Strange does hold back against certain character types and I don`t think Sora would be an exception considering he`s only a kid. Dormammu is his greatest enemy so it makes sense for him to resort to such a spell.
- Strange using a memory wipe spell doesn`t add a whole lot of context when it comes to combat, I don`t see him using it in combat.
- Strange has no prior knowledge on either of these characters, so for him to use these kinds of spells right off the bat without a certain criteria or form of context being accounted for is at the very least contradictory to how he would actually react in a random encounter.
- Sora has more advantages than Thor does overall, he`s faster, smarter, the better fighter and he is also a lot more versatile.
- Sora has faced opponents who were as powerful as Thor if not more so during his Disney/Fantasy adventures.
- Thor is stronger than Sora and hits harder but he holds back against humans and Sora is only a kid carrying a key, Thor wouldn`t take him that seriously in-character he could be cautious of Sora but more so his own strength. Like Superman and Silver Surfer, holding back one`s true strength is a character trait that is consistent with Thor. Thor being a comic book powerhouse level character doesn`t mean he is going to be throwing around planet busting strikes.
- Sora can easily bypass Thor`s durability with the Keyblade which is a dimensional level weapon and Sora is a lot more capable than Moondragon, Wolverine and many others when it comes to just pure strength as well as striking power. Thor has many high-end feats for blunt force damage but against piercing damage and especially piercing level damage of this potency he is going down.
- Sora`s speed alone will give Thor massive problems as he won`t be able to tag Sora successfully or at least consistently to the point of being able to pull off a win, Sora is massively hypersonic and can teleport. He`s faster than Hulk, Wolverine, Gorr, Ghost Rider and just most of any characters that Thor has had an encounter with. Thor usually fights powerhouse characters and its because of his own strength and power that he is able to go blow to blow with them but against a powerhouse character like Sora who isn`t exactly a power type he will lose as he holds less of an advantage.
- Thor`s not necessarily lacking when it comes to versatility in the offensive sense but in comparison to Sora he is lacking quite a bit, Sora`s magic will be able to counter a lot of Thor`s attacks, spells like Aero, Gravity, Reflect, Stop and so on so forth will be hard to counter. Thor`s ability to manipulate the weather, summon god blasts and create ruptures isn`t going to be effective against someone like Sora, and I also doubt that Thor would even resort (at the start) to these abilities when up against a human kid like Sora who he hasn`t even met.
- Even if Thor could tag Sora, I still think Sora would be able to recover from the majority of Thor`s attacks his clothes are magical and give him protection against a lot of different things which includes the element of lightning and just any kind of magic, Sora also could just use Cure to recover from all of his injuries or he could just summon Tinker Bell and have her reverse all the damage.
- Thor has fought over the top, top-tiers like Gorr the God Butcher, the Serpent, Mikaboshi, Deathseed Sentry, Mephisto, Odin, and etc. But Sora has fought Jafar, Ursula, Xemnas, Organization 13, Ansem, Phantom, Sephiroth, Terra, Xion, Vanitas (Roxas is Sora`s Nobody and the soul of Ventus dwells with Sora) and etc. so Sora isn`t far behind at all when it comes to experience, and his feats have less context as Thor like a lot of comic book characters comes with a lot of context in regards to the consistency in how he performs his feats.
- Sora`s summons will give Thor a lot of trouble. He can summon Genie and have him take care of Thor or he could summon the Dream Eaters, and have Thor overwhelmed.
As for Dr. Strange...
- Sora could easily blitz him. He`s much faster and more reactive than most of the enemies that Strange has fought in his history.
- Dr. Strange has no history with Sora so he wouldn`t know how to react he would only believe him to be an ordinary kid. Even if Strange were to sense that Sora was special in some way, I don`t think he would go all out against a human kid he has never met.
- Sora`s magical defenses are INSANE, he could easily deflect a lot of Strange`s spells with Reflect but even without it his magical outfit will protect him against Strange`s methods of attack.
- Sora has also already fought many magic users such as Zexion, Jafar, Sephiroth, Spellican, Phantom, Terra, Maleficent, Ursula, and etc. Strange wouldn`t really be anything special when he is far from the strongest when it comes to the opponents that Sora has already faced.
- Strange`s versatility will come into play but Sora`s versatility will be able to counter Strange and Sora with the help of Genie can easily have Strange defeated along with Thor. So even if you are correct about Strange being able to solo this match (which he simply can`t), Sora with Genie should be able to solo if we are to be realistic and reasonable in both of our understandings which can reach an agreement.
- Sora is the better fighter overall as much as he is a powerhouse when it comes to utilizing magic, and he can easily outwit Strange.
- In a lot of the scans you posted, Strange had the time to perform the spell and he did it against opponents who were caught off guard or unaware but against Sora none of those weaknesses are going to apply.
- Sora`s Drive Forms will help him break out of Strange`s hold as well when it comes to the magic spells that are designed to ensnare Sora and they increase his resistances and defenses.
- As powerful as Strange is, he`s a prep character that`s the most powerful attribute that he possesses. Sora fights characters that are of a similar level to the enemies that Strange battles but he does it without prior knowledge or prep, he does receive help but not in the same way Strange does.
- Genie alone could defeat Strange, he`s above Strange when it comes to magic and his Toon Force or more so Disney magic will give him problems.
- Strange is going to be dealing with Sonic and Sora will be fighting Thor that is how the match will go, but by all accounts Strange cannot solo.