MyGod000

Vader wins. Anakin in Legends is Parity with ROTS Sidious and Yoda, who are all>Mace.

it also stated Anakin is the greatest To ever grace the Jedi and most powerful Jedi in any Era.

in Canon I suppose it would be closer, but Anakin still wins. He defeated Dooku in less 30 seconds, that was before he joined the Dark side, after Mace died It stated Anakin gave up and Joined the Dark side which Anakin instantly felt his powers increasing.

By this time he was also More powerful than Dooku by Good bit, after he joined the Dark side he got even more powerful.

You can argue Mace>Dooku

Anakin Dark emotions>Dooku

Dark side Anakin>Anakin Dark Emotions>Dooku

It also stated Zombie Sidious is much more powerful than Snoke, this was stated many times.

the only thing you could argue for GM Luke is that he is above Snoke, but is he much more powerful than Snoke? Speak honestly.

Like I mentioned above Using Matt Martin to discredit Others as an point of an argument, then you have to also accept that Zombie is weaker than ROTS Sidious. Right now you just been picking and choosing what you want to accept.

Luke isn't Equal to Vader, The Guidebook states Luke skills is weaker than Obi-wan skills with a lightsaber. Suit Vader in ROTS was weaker than Anakin in skill which he had to refine his Style of dueling and relearn how to duel while in the suit. At some undefined point Vader surpassed ROTS Sidious in Light saber skills because he is Ranked number 1 in Light saber combat of sith.

Considering Vader was Conflicted and massively weakened that would be correct since It unclear if Luke is massively weakened when conflicted like Vader has been established to be.

@nassergrant19 said:

@mygod000 said:

@nassergrant19 said:

Lol Luke was confirmed equal to Prime Vader in canon. The conflicted argument works for Luke as well, when you look at sources and literally watch his attitude thought the fight. “I will not fight you father.” “I won’t fight you”. So that argument holds no water.

So both fighters possibly holding back/being conflicted during the fight doesn’t change the fact that canon confirmed them as equals.

He was confirmed equal to Vader and that’s that. No where does it state he was equal to this conflicted headcanon that could be applied to Luke as well. Under that logic it could’ve said Prime Vader was only equal to a conflicted/held back Luke.

It says in plain english

"Father and son were now equally strong with the Force, and equally skilled with their lightsabers."

-Jedi vs. Sith (2016)

ROTJ Luke=ROTJ Vader

Those are the canonical facts.

That’s why rage amped Luke stomped him because his rage broke that stalemate.

OT: Team 1 due to Yoda

No it doesn't because Filoni contradicted the novel and stated Luke would lose to anyone on the Jedi Council.

I said Vader was conflicted in that Battle, which is stated by Filoni, and stated as well by snoke who states Vader would have killed Luke in that battle if he hadn't cared for him.

I have multiple sources stating Vader was conflicted, as well as the Movie which is the highest of canon. right now you're just making Headcanon because it was only stated Vader was conflicted, Luke Skill wasn't wasn't Stated to be hampered like Vader skills is when conflicted.

Show me a Quote which states Luke was conflicted the whole duel otherwise you exposed yourself as using headcanon.

“No it doesn't because Filoni contradicted the novel and stated Luke would lose to anyone on the Jedi Council.”

So Luke loses to Luminara? Lmao are you trolling?

Anyways random statements by creators are not considered canon so that illogical sentiment is a moot point anyways.

Also the statement is not from a novel, it’s from an official guidebook.

Both characters were clearly held back in the fight. Luke drops his guard like three times and refuses to fight. He didn’t want to harm his father...literally everyone sees this.

However all of this is irrelevant because SW canon confirms they are equal. No amount of headcanon or speculation about who held back more in that fight will change this fact

"Father and son were now equally strong with the Force, and equally skilled with their lightsabers."

-Jedi vs. Sith (2016)

These are the facts.

hell recently canon sources called Luke more powerful.

All of your points come from either an irrelevant non-canon creator opinion, a villain‘s false personal opinion, or out of context events that don’t have anything to do with the canon confirmation of their strengths.

So stop spouting this “Weak Luke” headcanon. It’s been clearly established in SW canon that he was equal to prime Vader, and recently they even called him stronger. Luke was canonically equal back in ROTJ and he’s even stronger currently during the Mandalorian.

If your upset or puzzled with how quickly he developed that’s fine but don’t troll by rejecting canonical confirmations and promoting a ludicrous narrative that has been debunked for a while now.

The only thing I'm doing is exposing the Hypocrisy in the star wars debating Fandom.

The person you're Quoting Calling me a Wanker, Has been picking and choosing his own canon which he wants to accept.

Using Matt Martin to discredit Others, But ignoring that Matt also stated Zombie Sidious was Weaker than ROTS Sidious. That same Zombie Sidious is stated in canon to be Greater than GM Luke and Snoke. Finally Zombie Sidious is stated to be a weak shell of his ROTJ self and couldn't contain his ROTJ immense powers...the same powers that Vader at least rivaling.

we have canon Statements from the movies, Novels All directly Stating Luke=/= Vader. Even GM Luke, being weaker than ROTS Sidious and Zombie Sidious. My point here is Luke is not equal to Vader, I'm far from a Vader wanker, He isn't even my Favorite in Star wars, Anakin is.

I never said Luke was "Weak", I said he isn't on Vader's Level, and that is proven and established after the ROTJ GM Luke is weaker than Zombie Sidious, who is Much weaker than ROTJ Counterpart, who Vader at least rivals.

You need to get this silly notion because Someone said Luke isn't as strong as you want them to be, insinuates that Luke is weak, those words never came out of my mouth. the novel verbatim states Luke is below Obi-wan in skill.

Edit: as I mentioned Vader is established to be massively weaker when conflicted, Where is this For Luke? Luke not wanting to fight doesn't imply the same would apply to him; You need to prove that instead of just assuming that it would equal the same for him just because. If you can Established Luke was weakened in his fight like Vader then I'll concede my position, that seems pretty fair, it not like I'm saying you're wrong i'm just saying you haven't prove anything outside of just saying things because I said Vader was conflicted and weakened.

That scroll is outdated. New information takes Priority over it. Everyone is willing to say Kaguya always had a Rinne-sharingan when she came to earth so...then if you're willing to accept that new information you must also accept that Ten tails is more powerful than Momoshiki/Kinshiki, and Jigen tier.

It's even said to be a Isshiki tier threat.

Madara and KAguya both absorbed the ten tails and God tree making them massively above Momoshiki and Kinshiki

@frozen said:

@mygod000:

I have Vader that high because on the disney list he is ranked number 1 above Sidious in light saber skills. also sidious after ROTS stopped using Light saber.

The new Skywalker Family book states that Vader will never be as skilled as Anakin was.

Vader's massively force powers makes up for the Slight disadvantage in skill compared to Anakin. What Lucas did say is Vader>Luke.

That that is irrelevant.

Vader force powers>>>Anakin.

Anakin can be slightly better in light saber skills but Vader is overwhelming more powerful in the force.

Skywalker Family book stills States Luke is sub Obi-wan Level, who Vader is massively above in force powers and in light saber since He is also above Sidious in light saber dueling.

Occam's Razor

I have Vader that high because on the disney list he is ranked number 1 above Sidious in light saber skills. also sidious after ROTS stopped using Light saber.

it indirectly stated by Hidalgo who was speaking on behalf of Lucas, stating Vader was weaker in the classic film movies, and that Luke is powerful and formidable but would lose to Jedi council members.

Lucas and Hidalgo as agreed with that. I cited several Novels and statements from exec that Luke wasn't equal to Vader and the Movie which is the highest Canon stating Vader was Conflicted in that fight, as well as the vader comic which States Vader while conflicted is massively weaker.

Yeah, I think Luke is pretty skilled for someone who only been Training for 2 years as a Jedi max. It pretty silly to assume He equals Vader Or even Anakin who been training for decades at least. It makes more sense that Luke would equal a conflicted Vader, especially since It stated Vader while conflicted is massively weaker from his emotions and hindered.

even In the movie Luke Stated during their Battle Vader was conflicted, This is the highest of canon. Dave Filoni, Hidalgo, and George lucas all saying Luke would lose to any Master Jedi on the Jedi Council. Snoke in the novel Stating Vader would have killed Luke in that fight if not for his sentimental Nature.

Lucas has always Stated Vader can kill the Sidious, it was his Destiny even in interview Luke Job was to fully pull Anakin out of Vader so he can kill Sidious. This is honestly how it should be.

In terms of skill with a Light saber:

Prime suit Vader>ROTS Sidious>ROTS Yoda>=KFV>Mustafar Vader>Mace>Anakin>Dooku>Obi-wan at his best>ROTS Suit Vader>Maul>Ahsoka>Luke

I didn't put some people on the list Because I just put the most important. ROTS Titans and Prime Suit VAder are about as Good in Light skills as you can get.

No it doesn't because Filoni contradicted the novel and stated Luke would lose to anyone on the Jedi Council.

I said Vader was conflicted in that Battle, which is stated by Filoni, and stated as well by snoke who states Vader would have killed Luke in that battle if he hadn't cared for him.

I have multiple sources stating Vader was conflicted, as well as the Movie which is the highest of canon. right now you're just making Headcanon because it was only stated Vader was conflicted, Luke Skill wasn't wasn't Stated to be hampered like Vader skills is when conflicted.

Show me a Quote which states Luke was conflicted the whole duel otherwise you exposed yourself as using headcanon.