MrBallins

@masterbuster666:

That's a child

@ragingsaiyan101:

Because she is a woman, and the best that a woman can get is 6/10

4/10

Him

@chainchan

>Each asenscion is a form of Arcuied from the basis of what it says. If she's applicabiliy used in the context of Fate Go on any of the ascensions, it connects.

Read it again, it is used in context of all ascensions being versions of her from different points in time.

>And then your description of Zeltretch in "Supposdley GO" is Actually a descrption of a Tsuki Zel because GO's version is expliclity not a dead apostle ansector.

I case you have not noticed, I used new-Nasu and GO interchangeably, because GO is the main driving force behind Nasu nowadays and literally all side media that is being made just exists to market it. Fucking Type Lumina has 22 playable characters and 4 of them are Fate characters

>And the latter part--only just strengthens or just proves a Fate Zeltretch (As we see in Strange Fake) Can perform such functionality.

FSF predates GO and Extella, on top of being heavily merging both old Tsuki and Fate. I'd count it towards old Nasu due to this, though it can realistically be counted towards both

>So an Earlier Shiki before he fought Roa IIRC? and you're comparing him to EoS (Route) Shiki who fought roa?

Shiki could blitz 100% Arc at the beginning of the game while bloodlusted. He did not take her by surprise btw, Arc literally opened the door to her hotel room and got slashed to pieces by him without getting a chance to retaliate because of how much faster he was. The Akiha shit is just something to even further solidify this, since that was done by a nearly dead and heavily drained Shiki

>Romolous, Chaos, the War GOD, all being expliclity FTL.

How nice of you to not mention the fact that

A) Chaos used light speed attacks, not FTL ones

B) The attacks were shot from 20km away, in case you haven't bothered running the numbers, Romulus putting up a bounded field would yield something along the lines of lighting speed reactions, though Mars has a better feat since he moved in the way to intercept them. This is similar to character dodging sky to earth lightning despite being bullet timers in other fictional works, distance matters a lot when it comes down to how much time you have to react to an attack

>as if the only other piece of media that allow's there spirit origins to maintain FTL speed is Extra that has a conceptual space buffing said things

You are saying this as if Servants constantly achieve these speeds without any external factors even in Extra, FTL is not something that Servants can do under normal circumstances in the slightest, and being in conceptual space just changes it from being a suicide move to something they can survive

>So it's an Anti-feat For Gaia, or rather the Human Order--to save energy? no wonder why the planet died so quickly in otherworks. There times tree must have been so shitty.

For all your talk of me being "And old head that does not know the new material" you sure as hell are not familiar with the old one. Gaia's mana only dries up completely as a result of the Aylesbury Valesti, Extra only happens because of it and I am 80% that Notes does as well, though I will have to dig out the source of this in specific

>So you dont know about Ordeal Call

Yeah, Ordeal Call was the final nail in the coffin for me bothering with GO, after the shitfest that was LB7 (or, more specifically, fucking Kukulkan) writing-wise. It was just another shitty, soulless attempt at prolonging GO in order to print more money that I completely stopped caring for it in specific

That aside, from what I recall of the prologue it was going to be Alaya judging humanity for their sins and whether Chaldea was worthy to restore the world

>Daybit

That thing about him being opposed to Marisbury for ensuring the success of the Human Order iirc? It was mentioned that it would make humanity the worst species in the universe(continuing the trend of FGO villains being morally superior to Chaldea), but so far FGO has not entered a universe arc afaik, unless Ordeal Call revealed something really major in the first chapter

>She litterally calls it a replica. You dont even need to look far. Just search up black barrel replica,

Ah, noted. I am going to concede on this one, I genuinely forgot about her saying this while prepping BB

Though this does not really matter that much to my point, as Notes specifically mentions that Gaia called upon the other planets for help, and the Oort Cloud... is very obviously not a planet. And before you mention something in regards to the Moon, only 8 TYPEs came to Earth (obviously matching the number of planets in the Solar System, another hit against ORT being from the Oort Cloud originally), while the Moon was either dead or not counted as one, and Brunestud was acting out of his own free will there

>Even TM Wiki has it.

TM Wiki is heavily biased and removes sources that contradict the headcanon of the mods, on top of taking years to remove said headcanon (VSBW still thinks, to this day, that Ea and Slash Emperor function the same way because of the TM Wiki). Using it in any way sans scrolling to the bottom to see the sources is a waste of time

>You're spouting nonsense. I'll Wait for feats however.

Imaginary Space being tampered with by a Holy Grail

The Outer Gods being shitty as fuck

You picked a bad one to request feats try and call bullshit on, since I already have the stamps for this saved, so my laziness will not deter me from actually countering you here

@chainchan

>Wrong. Go explicitly connects all 3 from Arc's profile, mentioning the time periods and taken forms of Arc in each ascension.

Okay, first, your statement about GO Archetype connecting all Arcs is bullshit, that is just Archetype from different periods of time

"The special guest of the 7th Anniversary. An individual that has a different form and personality with each Ascension. Ascension 1 is the future: the original form of an ideal world. Ascension 2 is the present: the result of a coincidence. Ascension 3 is the past: a what-if in which the mistake was not made. In addition, Ascension 2 is Arcueid Brunestud from 3 years after a certain route in Tsukihime: A piece of blue glass moon."

Second, GO Archetype is also a bullshit waifu that gives you morning blowjobs. You cannot seriously consider this

"Extroverted, positive and active. As part of the ruthless True Ancestor royalty, she does not exhibit any human-like emotions. Rather than that of a princess, her demeanor and tone is more befitting of a queen, treating the insolent with no mercy. While she coldly views human culture as being foolish and pathetic, she does not dislike nor deny it. "It is impressive, in its own unique way. Comedies can sometimes be beautiful when taken to extremes." After living for millennia without much change, it has grown easy for new stimuli to get a reaction out of her. Despite seeming morose and unfeeling, she's a funny queen that looks forward to unexpected coincidences."

To be the same Archetype that didn't actually give a shit about humanity, and only helped against Dust of Osiris because of how stupid her reasoning was

>Go Explilcity connects such Old forms of Lore with Explanations on Characters. "But this is incompatible with how X works" yet we see Go accept, and show that the parallel world Phenomena can be used to explain crossover's and cross-scales.

GO connects shit, is just retcons it to suit the gacha game in order to sell more waifus.

>Dont know where you're getting the Zeltretch Information from in GO

"The Second Magic concerns the attestation and application of parallel worlds.

By making it possible to travel to parallel worlds, he proved that there is still room for the world to develop in different ways.

Thanks to this, the world’s lifespan has been extended. Even if our history fails, and we destroy ourselves, there might still be others of us out there—this concept granted hope to the planet, which had been in the process of losing its dreams.

Zelretch’s method for travelling through parallel words is a simple one—he transfers himself to a jewel in a different temporal axis.

For example: if he wants to transfer from World A to World B, he will gather jewels in World B until they gather up enough to take Zelretch’s shape, and then Zelretch’s soul will transfer over. In an instant, the jewel golem transforms into Zelretch. At that point, the Zelretch in World A will turn back into its original form as a pile of jewels.

As long as minerals and jewels exist there, he can travel into any world he wishes, but as he only has a single soul, he cannot be active in all of them at once.

He originally travelled with just his physical body, but because of various circumstances he eventually settled for this method as it was the easiest.

In addition, as a small amount of time lag occurs when he travels, he is also capable of a tiny bit of time travel as well.

To answer the question of ‘if he doesn’t travel with his physical body, how could he be a Dead Apostle?’—as someone who has inherited the Hemonomic Principle of one of the 27 Ancestors, he has been corrupted on the soul-level, so it's impossible for him not to be.

Vampirification is not the transformation of the body, but of existence. It’s like if the entry in the Akashic Records that read ‘human’ changed class to ‘Dead Apostle’—to become a vampire in one’s very being."

~TYPE-MOON Manuscript - Zelretch Kishur Schweinorg, p.033-035

Compare this to old Zelretch, whose Second is embodies time

And who could pull shit like this as a side effect of the Second

"A:They're parallel... sort of. But if Zelretch was observing, it'd become true, and my feelings on the matter is that I'd rather two routes disappear if one was true.

If all of these became possible at the same time, the other routes would become meaningless."

>Especially with the downplay of speed.

Half-dead Nanaya did this

This was also after she had absorbed Roa iirc, so she would have definitely been comparable to him and he could still go FTE to her. Oh right, he was also dying and readily losing power throughout this

Moreover, Shiki straight up blitzed Arc at the start of Tsuki when he opened her apartment door. She was not caught unaware, she was completely aware that he was there and still got cut up to pieces

I seriously don't care whether you rate OG Tsuki top tiers to be somewhat faster than Servants or outright capable of blitzing them a billion times over, this version of Shiki is infinitely faster than this

Meanwhile, remake Shiki

Honestly, modern Fate has actively been nerfing speeds. Achilles moving at hypersonic speeds would kill him if his heel was injured, and he could not go FTE to fucking Guda with only 30% of his total speed. Outside of the few ridiculous outliers like somewhat keeping up with the Dioscuri (With support, mind you), speed has been consistently dropping in Nasu compared to before. Fucking Kukulkan was hyped up for being able to fly at subsonic speeds, for fuck's sake

>Uh-huh, New Shiki that's explicitly Vampiric in the Ciel Route, Can regenerate--and as a result of being vampiric can understand the sort's of Vampire's without even having to stress his brain, is explicitly stronger physically, is weaker than a Shiki that has 5-year-old semantics of wether or not he could beat a servant..one of the weaker things in the setting, whilst the latter form is confident in both way's of killing something with a planetary output if his plan worked.

Cute, OG Shiki could shit out Maiko Yamase, who essentially became a planet of her own right

>Don't know the hype about this when logically said timelines are either pruned because of either minimal stagnation or Explicitly unfavorable events from the planet's side

Oh, I see, so you haven't actually played Extella

"This universe permits the birth of unlimited possibilities, numerous adjacent worlds, and divergent developments of history.

However, as the unrestricted propagation of this process would exhaust the lifespan of the universe, at set intervals, those extraneous worlds removed of the category of "routes characterized by survivability and stability" are culled, so as to prevent the needless expenditure of energy."

Oh, and before you mention anything about this stating that it permits the birth of infinite possibilities, it refers to possibilities propagating infinitely, not there being an actual infinite amount of them present, which would be required in old TM since Zelretch did draw energy from an infinite amount of worlds at the same time in his battle with Brunestud

>The Galaxy Level energy--that Fantasy tree boasts--being comparable to Goetia, which LB Ort has a shit ton of--the same LB ORT either on the same level or lower than the same Gaia with concrete unlimited amounts of Magical energy according to TsukiRE?

You don't need TsukiRe for that, FGO itself was adamantly clear in regards to Goetia's energy capacity being tied to the size of the time tree, aka the size of the Universe of Observation.

That said, Gaia's energy is obviously finite in GO

>That's only a limitation of range, something that will likely be changed with the full capacity of what lies beyond the solar system and the enemy of the universe Plot-line.

What are you even talking about? We know that the spreading of parallel worlds collapses parts of the actual universe in modern Nasu (or Fate, since that's essentially what modern Nasu is), this is not an issue of range, it's an issue of this being an inherent flaw.

I am not even going to bother with "the universe plot-line", since it's just stupid headcanon at this point

>Black Barrel Replica. even Funnier that you're questioning what could be done with Future events--when a single rayproof Excalibur would likely one-shot all the types.

As far as I can recall, nowhere in GO is it stated that Sion gave us the Replica instead of the original, and Mash's skill directly calls it Black Barrel without adding Replica at the end

>I find it funny how VoidSpace in what you call GO--would be even better than the other conceptual spaces shown, but that's a matter for another day

Ah yes, the same conceptual space that could get warped by a fucking Holy Grail out of all things, lol. Imaginary Space is one of the biggest downgrades that Nasu has done in the verse's history, nearly as big as the Outer Gods being mortal jokes that were directly stated to not be metaphysical or conceptual in any way

@chainchan

>We use Community findings and general consesus to define the objectiveness of things in reality. That's seen everywhere in history, and it's school of thoughts. Religon, Metaphysics, And Scientific basis--all rely on a community to properly define the underlying truth (Science of which--possessing the most fickle of such. and accepts that things can and will change there accepted notion, but still uphold said notions since it's the most relilable)

Community consensus is not correct inherently in any sort of capacity, but it is accepted in scientific fields because there is usually a community effort towards finding the closest thing that we can to the truth with our current capacities. Community consensus, in of itself, proves nothing except that the community agrees on something

>TsukiRe

Irrelevant, TsukiRe is incompatible with old Tsuki and non-Modern Nasu

>It's even more puzzling when you consider--as a being, there's something like her in the form of Kuku who makes sure to show a direct connection that within the whole classfication of her being is contigent of the thing that she's a system of--also possesing a Lumionus body (The Same thing arc uses in TsukiRE)

Again, modern lore, it's irrelevant due to incompatibility

>You could assert his statements Are DOA sure, but that wouldnt really make sense

Nasu actively contradicts himself on numerous of occasions

>But believe him, if he wants to buff said character in context of modern works

Lol

No, seriously, lol

Nasu has done nothing but nerf old characters and pretend that he buffs them, compare old Zelretch (can passively erase timelines, time travel is under his domain, the Kaleidoscope grants him control over parallel worlds) to modern Zelretch (can only time travel due to the time lag caused from relocating his soul, limited to travelling to worlds where gems exist, the Kaleidoscope is the ultimate gem magic, probably going to be replaced by fucking Rin so that they can make people roll for a new Rinface in FGO). Or compare old Shiki (literally FTE to characters that would stomp your average Servant) to new Shiki (30 m/s projectiles are considered fast for him)

>To the point a scaling chain of Arc's placement in type moon before TsukiRe and LB's like Lostbelt 6 was probably Lower than beasts like goetia

Arc being comparable to Crimson Moon and being a challenge for Aoko should put her well above Goetia. Remember that Zelretch can passively erase all timelines except the one that he is observing, and that all of Goetia's shit was only a glimpse of what the Fifth can do. Btw, in case you ask, here is Arc being comparable to Brunestud

Actually, Aoko in general is fucking ridiculous considering this

>Dont know what's up with peeps putting down other Nasu scalers when they clearly lack proper knowledge on it's current status--to be talking, but aye, game is game i guess?

I have literally played through the entirety of FGO's translated material, and am generally aware of what happens in TsukiRe and the Japanese side of FGO. You are the one lacking proper knowledge here

Sion directly states that Black Barrel cannot kill entities beyond the Planet's Logic, this makes Notes absolutely impossible. Post-Extella Nasu is also completely incompatible with old Nasu, which was stated, on numerous of occasions, to have infinite timelines, which is objectively impossible with current Nasu's cosmology

>Furthermore, it is one verse. VERY explicility made to be so. Only ever straying in what nasu has in Different Possibilties, Either Pretaining to the formation of Alaya (Something Disntict in Tsuki and Fate), Crimson Moon's Existensce (Something Disnict in Tsuki and Fate), Proper Human History (Which is basically the poster of child Nasu--Aka Fate/GO, which has elements from almost everything), The steady Decline of Gaia.

The Time Tree is irrelevant here, as the underlying mechanics beyond it are the issue. The universe itself is incapable of handling vast amounts of energy created by the uncontrolled growth of time trees, which is why they get pruned, so as to not lead to the collapse of the Solar System, in Panhuman History's case

Current Nasu cannot support an infinite amount of timelines

Moreover, I have no idea what you are talking about in regards to the formation of Alaya since it exists in all worlds, its strength in every specific world is just dependent on the state of humanity and how dominant they are

You are assuming that for no reason whatsoever, despite OP providing pretty good arguments about why energy does not care for dimensions or layers. Moreover, if your hax gets negated by layers then it just sucks, no two ways to go about it

@chainchan said:

Cool, Truth is a vague subject with intersubjectivity, subjectivity, and objectivity, with truth based on community like findings being our most objective despite most if not all things in physical reality not being confirmed.

Treating community findings as the most objective is ad pop, either argue as to why they are objective or don't bother bringing them up

So saying he's alive =/= Automatically means she's alive when he's an agency different from the planet--whilst she's a being bound to it. if the planet dies, why would its extension form and system be able to be alive? why not prune it? why not dispatch Arc to kill Humanity or a Beast of Gaia?

You literally cannot infer that a being created the planet--upheld by it (And which she is, she doesnt have an End) when separated from such would retain power--or even life if we say everything of Gaia died.

Arcueid being dead is not stated anywhere, and TYPEs dying alongside their planet is not stated anywhere either. If anything, you can make an argument for the opposite, because Brunestud left his planet after the implied end of its life and attempted to conquer Earth. Him being present in Notes may only be because he took Arc's body as well, though this is obviously not confirmed.

I have no issue with making the assumption that she is dead, but treating your own headcanon as fact is incredibly arrogant.

You do know Nasu stated ORT as in Proper Human History ORT (IN FGO) to be the strongest? the Weaker one, or the Lostbelt one is defined as a subspecies that was integrated into the Lostbelt. And yes im referring to Nasu's statements, the same one's that have him saying Arc cant deal with him? the same ones that have PHH ORT in the most recent one to be defined as the strongest?

Nasu's statements are inconsistent, and should be used with a very heavy amount of skepticism. He has stated that both Arc and ORT are the strongest entities in TM with only several months between the individual statements, on top of other historical inconsistencies such as him changing his mind on how God Hand works in every single interview, or giving straight up nonsensical statements regarding his old works. I am honestly at the point where I might start applying Death of the Author every time one of his statements is brought up

What's Funny is...It was the "retconned" Lostbelt ORT that would've done this:

Buddy, you can't be talking shit when your information on TsukiRe, Notes, Go, is heavily misinformed. Your ass when it comes to Nasu 😭

You are the one making assumptions about Notes here, as well as generally lacking an understanding of what happens in GO (can't speak about TsukiRe since I have not played it yet). Your attempt to treat Nasu as a single verse instead of two different continuities is also pretty telling of your lack of knowledge regarding it, considering that Notes is literally impossible if we take into consideration what Sion stated regarding the Black Barrel prior to Heian Kyo

Assuming that an argument is bullshit because a third party drew an incorrect conclusion from it is absurd

VS

Standard Battle Assumptions, both are in character.

Location: Shirou's house