@iamsilversurfer: Too bad we've never seen Gladiator come close to moving planets or collapsing stars. Feats>statements and
Yes, too bad, but statements do account for something.
by feats Gladiator is below the Superman/Thor/Hulk tier.
Except he is not, only one of them has destroyed planets (not counting world breaker) and Gladiator has stalemated him.
Superman and Hulk have greater grappling strength, but Gladiator has greater striking strength.
Should have guessed you'd use this one. Unfortunately it is made completely redundant in the next volume where Thanos gains the upper hand over Annihilus who had been powered up to his tier of power. Annihilus had previously beaten Gladiator soundly whilst mocking Kallark for not posing as much of a challenge as the Hulk had.
Annihilus gave Thanos a hard time, no shame to getting stomped by him.
Considering Bill has fewer appearances than Gladiator, it's honestly a surprise that he outclasses him by feats. But he still does and the majority of users think so too.
Bill doesn't have less appearances than Gladiator. They have around the same number of appearances, and if any, the difference is too small.
Plus, most of Gladiator's appearances are non-combat appearances where is standing in the background as praetor of imperial guard, or sitting in a chair as majestor of Shi'ar Emipire.
Therefore, effectively, Bill has many more combat showings than Gladiator. Plus, Gladiator's cousin sister (who was only equal to his brother at most) was able to easily restrain Bill.
Bill destroyed his planet in one hit, Gladiator needed 3-5 hits. That's quite a big difference.
3 not 5
And Bill charged into the planet, Gladiator was standing on it. The difference is not as high as you are making it out to be. Neither SHAZAM nor Superman are planet busters.
If you provide me feats of either of them busting a planet in 3 hits, I will gladly accept them as Kallark's superiors
I see your choice of scans to crop is incredibly disingenuous. You forgot to mention this part of the narration.
Pretty clear Gladiator is hurt by the star's heat.
We don't know if the pain was because of star's heat or his inner conflict, likely the latter.
As it is stated to be "no match for the fire inside him"
And called as a "dissatisfying challenge"
It's not actually shown what happened on panel
It is shown on panel as Gladiator strikes the Skrull ship, and confirmed by reed that the explosion would've wiped out half the solar system.
and Gladiator is consistently hurt by much less.
So have Bill, Thor, Hulk and even the invulnerable Superman
Unless you think Heimdall's punch
Didn't hurt him, and wasn't a punch, but he was hit by an inter-dimensional bridge.
, Gambit's cards
Like I stated before, Gladiator's initial 5-10 showings were not written as him being a powerhouse, like how Hulk couldn't break free out of titanium walls, could be restrained by iron bars, etc or Superman couldn't fly, move moons or shake continents.
and Drax's punches are star level for hurting him?
Drax didn't hurt him, Gladiator was faking damage to toy with Drax.
You should read the comics before making claims.
Not consistently as has already been proven. Bill doesn't have Gladiator's history of jobbing and struggling with much weaker characters.
Remove his first 5-10 showings and neither has Gladiator.
Still doesn't change the fact Bill did in 1 blow what took Gladiator multiple. Not to mention planet busting is not Gladiator's consistent best either. It's from a short story in a Marvel series written by a writer who had never written Gladiator before.
Chris Clairmont had never written Gladiator before either, before he introduced him in Uncanny X-Men not as a primary A level character, not as a support character, not even as a side character but as a space-filler character. A story where Gladiator actually has focus > a story where Gladiator is just another nameless character.
Wrong, both Gladiators were from different Earths. One is from Earth 8810 which is confirmed in a Marvel handbook to be an alternate Earth in a Time Bubble.
The other is from The Reigning which is stated in the issue to be an alternate future which never came to past. Thus the feats from those Gladiators are not applicable.
Yet, both times the interaction between Thor and Gladiator was achieved by simple time-travel means not by any complicated inter-dimensional or inter-universal travel.
If you can prove that Gladiator gets stronger with time (like battle123axe stated for thing), has different versions depending upon time (like Hulk), gets more experienced in using his powers affecting his power level (like Thor and Odinforce Thor), etc, then I will concede and not use these as feats for Gladiator.
It's not just his original creator who's written Gladiator underperforming, several other writers have inconsistently portrayed Gladiator's abilities in fights.
I wonder if no other character has ever underperformed.
Heimdall,
He did not have any problem with him, unless you can prove that Heimdall can't cut Thor or Hulk.
Drax,
He was toying, faking to be injured.
Black Bolt,
I know you will show one panel of Black Bolt and gladiator jumping at each other, and black bolt apparently landing on top of Gladiator.
It only shows that he is more skilled than Gladiator in terms of martial arts skill.
Also, Black Bolt is a legit high tier, capable of one-shotting characters like Namor, shattering Thing's limbs; and with a heavily suppressed cry, shaking earth and setting off volcanoes on the other side of the planet
Gambit,
It is by clairmonte, and covered above.
Cannonball,
A holding back, barely-fighting Gladiator was stomping Cannonball when not trying to fight, before he absorbed his punch by a power "created 6 seconds ago" as stated on panel.
Superman, Hulk, Green Lantern, Quasar and even me (silver freaking surfer) have been defeated many times by draining, and the most powerful character, silver surfer, was defeated by armies of earth in 1970's by draining using missiles.
Superman has been defeated countless times with kryptonite, but it doesn't make him any less impressive. Martian manhunter and white martians have been defeated by simple matchsticks.
I wonder why Gladiator being hurt, just hurt not even knocked out, by both his power being absorbed and used against him AND his weakness by a plot-device ability INVENTED 6 seconds before the climax of the issue, is a bad showing.
a weakened and dying Hulk, those are just a few of the enemies Gladiator has struggled or lost to.
There is no proof that it was a dying hulk, and he did not beat Gladiator but the radiation weakness did.
The issue was written by a writer who had no ties with the storyline in Incredible Hulk 440-460 issues where Hulk was dying. The author of the main series, peter david, was not in any way involved in this issue.
Also, weakened hulk was defeated by a T-Rex - a freaking T-rex (who was stomped and easily killed by tribal people) - and couldn't heal his injuries even after hours. He got injured by DEADPOOL of all people, beaten by a street sign. He was hurt by a small missile, and couldn't heal its wound even at the end of the issue, and was still feeling the effects in the start of next issue.
On the other hand, Hulk in the fight against Gladiator no-sold a fall from space (completely no sold), got healed from a hole in his chest within a few seconds, walked into nuclear reactor and created earthquakes with his leaps. Come at me when someone who can't beat a T-rex or deadpool with street sign can replicate any of this.
False equivalency. Superman is a character who's been rebooted and has had several different canon versions. And Hulk has been retconned multiple times. Generally we specify which versions of Superman and Hulk are being used in battle threads.
Golden age Superman and Savage Hulk are the ones I was referring to.
Gladiator has not been altered drastically and he still gets written inconsistently.
Gladiator has not been altered, so his showings from future should be valid.
But yes he has been written consistently as long as we ignore Chris Clairmonte writing him as a mid tier space filler in his first few appearances.
Sure look like he got overpowered to me.
Conveniently picking one scan from end of the "fight" where Gladiator got overpowered and just hurt by Cannonball using Gladiator's own power against him when he was weakened (due to self-doubt)? And a weakened Gladiator tanking this shot which created a large explosion is bad?
Let me post the entire fight before this where Gladiator came in to talk to X-Men and Cannonball tried to attack Gladiator to no effect, till Gladiator got pissed off and annoyed at him, like a toddler and his dad:
Gallery
Gladiator even said "stop before you hurt yourself"and didn't even attack before this infamous punch of his was absorbed by Cannonball
Let me post why Cannonball was so surprised by the power of his punch on (weakened) Gladiator
And yet, Gladiator was down for TWO PANELS, not even a full page, but two mere panels. He didn't even get scratched. Just slightly hurt for one panel. That's being hit by his own full force punch when weakened (see second panel)
Poor examples to choose from
Poor examples to choose from.
It applies more to you
Thor has one shotted Angrir, an amped version of The Thing who was treating Red Hulk like a punching bag by sending Mjolnir through his chest during Fear Itself.
I never denied that, but I was just reminding you that Thor has struggled against Thing in the past atleast twice.
In classic days, struggling against Thing and Colossus wasn't that bad. Yet, you focus on one single instance of Gladiator struggling against colossus which was his first fight in marvel, written as a space filler, in classic days, before the authors decided to write him as a high tier.
And in Secret Empire a temporarily resurrected Hulk stomped Ben in just 2 blows.
Gladiator did it in one, and again, classic Savage Hulk failed to put Thing down after 2 full issues of fighting. Do I need to post scans?
As for Proxima Midnight, she used a spear which could make itself as heavy as a star.
Statements, by feats Hulk is nowhere near star level nor is Proxima midnight who easily lifts her own spear.
I wonder why you deny statements from an omniscient entity but believe a Thanos lackey's statements. I wonder why you'd deny Kubark's statements despite him having "seen" those feats of Gladiator.
Nope, only your examples are bad here.
I don't see how. I can post half a dozen instances of Hulk having trouble with Thing. I can post instances of Hulk being unable to put Thing down after prolonged battle. Yet, Gladiator did it in one blow.
So have Thor, Hulk and Sentry as well as other high tiers so that's not special.
I never called it special. Gladiator easily beat Heimdall, and didn't get bothered by him.
I wonder why you insist it is something bad.
Heimdall is only a 35 tonner according to handbooks so struggling with him is embarrassing for a high tier. And Thor and Hulk have more impressive piercing resistance feats overall.
I will concede if you can show me heimdall attempting to stab Thor and failing to cut his skin.
Bill's hammer was not allowed in the ring by champion due to rules. And art does vary depending upon author and artist. There are canon stories where Nova prime looks like a thin stick cartoon. Infact his entire vol 3 was like that.
gladiator looks like like a fat, middle aged, stone creature:
He is wearing a thick padded dress.
, but he's also referring to the same issue where it took 3 hits (including one possibly to the genitalia) to take BRB out:
compared to gladiator's two:
(and BRB was in a better state, still capable of speech while gladiator was near dead)
and then friggin she hulk takes 6 blows, and is still standing.
The number of blows is not consistent since bill and Gladiator's beatdown wasn't focused on panel, while She-Hulk's beatdown was focused on panel.
Also, Champion wasn't taking Shulk seriously as a threat
mind you, i'm referring to the same guy that thing lasted 3 rounds with
and could all but scratch thor
Champion had the POWER GEM when he beaten down BRB, gladiator
but sure, gladiator can rip apart stars.
Apparently if we take into account the voice of an omniscient entity.
also, speaking of thing, do you know that thing is far more powerful now than he was then, due to absorbing more cosmic radiation over time?
How much? He was still portrayed as a match for Namor, as he has ever been. And this still doesn't change the fact that Hulk and Thor, both had trouble with him in the past, in classic days.
More than once, and atleast half a dozen times in case of Hulk.
both thor and Hulk have done worse to current, more powerful thing, than gladiator did to a weaker thing.
Both Thor and Hulk? Thor has one-shotted angrir but Hulk has, to mu knowledge, never one-shotted Thing. Thing even stalemated Cho-Hulk, who has stalemated Banner Hulk, as well as unleashed moon-shaking, potentially moon-busting strikes.
Even World War Hulk couldn't one-shot Thing with a thunderclap right on his head.
Stil not the same as actually seeing Gladiator perform these feats on panel. Also source for this Living Tribunal star level statement?
Gallery
What statements?
Thanos BFR's Gladiator calling him the most dangerous out of Quasar, Bill, Ronan
By feats Bill blows Gladiator out of the water.
Not really
Bill has busted planetoids or possibly planets,
But so has gladiator
survived inside a star whilst unconscious (unlike Gladiator who eventually felt immense pain from staying inside a red giant for a couple minutes at most)
Gladiator didn't get hurt by it.
Infact, Gladiator flies out of the star because the challenge (of being in a sun) was too weak and wouldn't even satisfy him.
Gallery
and survived a bomb which could wipe out a small solar system.
And Gladiator not only survived but contained an explosion capable of wiping half of solar system, and was only dazed at best.
I can source these if required which is more than can be said for Gladiator. Gladiator performing better against Tyrant is an outlier.
Based on what is it an outlier? Gladiator has replicated Bill's best feats without any problem.
Also, Bill has actually planet busted in 1 hit whereas Gladiator needed multiple blows.
Bill did it in one hit, true but he was also bullrushing. Gladiator was standing and did it with 2-3 blows.
With buildup, Bill obviously hits harder. But both are in the same realm.
Furthermore, Gladiator has never actually fought Thor Odinson directly. Earth 616, or the canon Gladiator has only ever fought Eric Masterson and Jane Foster whereas Thor has only ever fought 2 alternate versions of Gladiator, one from Earth 8810 where the Fantastic Four, Thor and Iron Man went to a future where Galactus was a threat to the entire universe and another version from The Reigning future where Thor had turned into an evil ruler of Asgard and had the Earth under his control.
Both of the Gladiators were from future of canon marvel 616 universe. Unless Gladiator gets more powerful with old age, or had some infinity gems then the feats are applicable.
It was also written by his original creator which wasn't his first fight actually.
As far as I remember, it was his first on panel fight. Being written by his creator doesn't matter when 5 issues contradict 250 other issues. At that time he was written as mid-tier.
If we go by that logic, the original version of Superman was written as building leaping, supersonic, 100-1000 tonner, who became solar-system sneezer within a few decades without any reason. The original version of Hulk goes from being unable to crack 10 feet thick concrete wall in one full night, being contained easily by a titanium room to tossing buildings and creating earthquakes within 20 issues of his publication. When a character appears, in general the authors rarely have a proper idea what to do with them and how powerful they should be.
As for Cannonball, the fact that Gladiator got overpowered by Cannonball's signature power to absorb kinetic energy is not a good showing.
He did not get overpowered. His punch got absorbed.
Heimdall is a mid tier at best who has been easily defeated by the likes of Thor, Hulk and Sentry yet Gladiator was visibly wounded from battling him.
Thing is a mid tier who was one-shotted by Gladiator yet Hulk, Thor visibly had trouble against him. Nova (before powerup) was a low-level mid tier at most and Thor had trouble with him while mindcontrolled, yet Gladiator tore stronger centuions in half. Proxima midnight is a mid tier yet she beat indestructible hulk, one on the strongest incarnations of Banner Hulk.
See mid-tiers can put up fights against high-tiers and get stomped by them either so your logic is bad.
Gladiator didn't want to fight him either, and he did easily beat him.
Also, he wasn't wounded, he had one stab near the shoulder. Thor has been stabbed by asgardian weapons, and heimdall's sword should be special. Being stabbed by it (which didn't seem to bother him) shouldn't be a bad showing. Did Thor and Hulk ever show resistance to being stabbed by his sword?
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