The ‘No Limits Fallacy’ Fallacy

My Thoughts About the No Limits Fallacy

For starters the no limits fallacy is not a real thing. No debating site has it listed and no one in the academic world knows what it means. It is a purely battle forum term. Which is why it bothers me when people just say “no limits fallacy (NLF)” as if it somehow debunks anything, because it doesn’t. Heck, no fallacy debunks anything on its own since that would fall under the Argument from Fallacy.

So what is the no limits fallacy? In general, people claim that the no limits fallacy means that if someone has no stated limits they are therefore limitless, for example: If Hulk gets stronger the madder he gets and if he can get infinitely mad, he must have infinite strength.

Now that obviously isn’t a good argument to make, but saying it is NLF, isn’t a good counterargument either. This is because the “no limits fallacy” is the Frankenstein’s monster of fallacies. Let me explain what is actually going on here.

First: Burden of Proof

It is universally understood that the burden of proof falls under the person who makes the claim. This means that the person who makes the said NLF claim has to prove it, which might not seem like a counter to you yet since you can find plenty of examples in comics that would ‘support’ no limit fallacies. Except most of the time they wouldn’t because......

The nature of proof

There are 4 types of acceptable proof in the court of law

  1. Tangible evidence
  2. Demonstrative evidence
  3. Witness testimony
  4. Documentary

To explain why this debunks a majority of ‘evidence’ for NLF claims we most discuss what each entails.

  1. Tangible evidence- this has to be evidence that is physical, meaning a showing of the said NLF ability. If you claim that Superman is infinitely durable you’d need to show him taking an infinitely powerful attack, said attack would also have to be proven to be infinite in power independently, otherwise it would fall under circular reasoning. I
  2. Demonstrative evidence- this is pretty self explanatory, you would have to demonstrate your NLF claims which is impossible.
  3. Witness testimony- a witness testimony give you some leeway, you don’t have to show Superman taking an infinitely powerful attack to prove he is infinitely durable. But you do need to have a witness that can testify that they saw Superman taking an infinitely powerful attack. Meaning, he would still need to have taken an infinitely powerful attack, there must still be a form of tangible evidence, the only difference is that we the readers haven’t seen it. This means that general statements are not counted as evidence unless they are stating an event that they themselves witnessed. So the narrator saying “Sentry has the power of one million exploding suns” proves nothing but a character saying “I have seen Sentry unleash an attack which has the power of a million exploding suns” can be considered as evidence.
  4. Documentary- this means that your claim has to be documented. This is basically a witness testimony except in text or video. You’d still need to prove that someone tangible happened that was documented in order to prove your claim.

Basically this means feats or GTFO. If you have no tangible feats or statements that a tangible feat occurred then you have nothing but meaningless claims. Author statements or general statements of power prove nothing, at best they can be called expert testimonies, good supporting evidence. But if that is all you have then you have nothing.

Second: Counter Evidence

If your opponent claims that a character has no limits, do not simply claim that they made a fallacy therefore GG no re. Again, that is a fallacy in and of itself. What you need to do is either 1. Ask for proof. 2. Show evidence to the contrary.

So if you want to disprove your opponent, by either questioning their assertion, in which case they would be disproved if they cannot provide adequate evidence, or by disproving them. So if you have tangible proof that a character has shown limits, for example Hulk falling to lift something, then you have counter evidence. Even if your opponent provides evidence, if your counter evidence is stronger than what they provided (either through quantitatively or qualitatively) then you would still win the argument. There is no such thing as someone who is partially limitless.

Third: Fallacy of Division

Some people use the no limits fallacy like this

Premise: Goku has infinite physical and piercing durability.

Conclusion: Goku is immune to anti-matter, because he has infinitely durability.

First things first the premise is flawed which is already fallacious. Asides from that, one can argue that this is a form of the fallacy of division. This fallacy states that one cannot infer information for a part because it is true for the whole or the majority. For example: That guy has a big chest therefore he has a big heart.

Now you might be wondering how this connects to the Goku durability example, this is circumstantial but I believe it would go something like this. According to Comic Vine there are four main forms of resistance that encompass the term durability

  1. Energy durability (resistance to attacks related to energy i.e thermal)
  2. Piercing durability (resistance to bladed attacks))
  3. Physical durability (resistance to kinetic attacks)
  4. Specific durability (telepathic resistance, acidic resistance, etc. general hax stuff)

This means that, according to the division fallacy, one cannot assume what is true for parts based on what is true for the whole/majority. So just because Goku, as a whole, is infinitely durable in one or more aspects, does not mean that he is infinitely durable to everything.

Summary

I personally dislike the term “no limits fallacy” and I think that it’s kinda dumb sometimes. But it can be used, as long as the user understands what the no limits fallacy entails. Simply dismissing an argument vased on the premise that it falls under te no limits fallacy is ironic, as that would be a fallacy in and of itself, and the no limits fallacy isn even offically recognised do it would be the worst form of ‘argument from fallacy’ possible. I think that if you wanted to debunk a NLF user, you should just sinply ask for objective feats that are either shown or actually happened, as those are mainly the only types that count as actual evidence. Statements are just statements, they could he used as suppirting evidence but are not evidence themselves.

Disclaimer: I’ve been using the Vine for almost 3 years now and these are just my opinions. Take them as you will.

47 Comments

DC's Poseidon Respect Thread

A bunch of people were making respect threads so I thought I would get in on that action. Marvel's Poseidon has a respect thread, the actual Poseidon has a respect thread, so now here is DC's Poseidon with a long overdue respect thread.

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Water Manipulation

Wonder Woman #7: Zeus calls upon Poseidon to rejuvenate Wonder Woman, and Poseidon complies by sucking her into the very bottom of the ocean

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Aquaman #34: Creates an expanding ball of water

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Can see and hear things happening across the ocean

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Aquaman #35: Turns into water before vanishing

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Aquaman Annual #1: Creates a massive whirlpool that sucks down Superman and Aquaman with monstrous teeth at the bottom of it.

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Aquaman Annual #1: Manipulates the water to pull a girl towards him

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Aquaman Annual #1: Overwhelms Aquaman by giving him a glimpse of his oceanic omnipotence

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Aquaman Annual #1: Shows Aquaman specific happenings by sharing his omnipotence

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Other Magic

Aquaman #35: Blinds Aquaman

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War of gods #2: Hears Aquaman's call

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Tempest #1: Stated to be immortal

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Man of Steel Annual #4: Overpowers Superman with winds and one-shots him with an eye blast

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Aquaman Annual #1: Superman being overpowered by Poseidon's storm clods retold

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Aquaman Annual #1: Superman getting one-shot retold

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Aquaman Annual #1: Creates blinding light just by removing his coat

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Aquaman Annual #1: Blocks Aquaman's telepathy

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Aquaman Annual #1: Teleports away before Aquaman can hit him

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Aquaman Annual #1: Takes down a ship using lightning

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Respect Triton

Triton, Poseidon's son, stole his father's trident and power. This are his feats during that time.

Aquaman #45: Triton kills Atlan with the trident

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Triton, with Poseidon's trident, creates a massive tidal wave

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One-shots Tempest

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AoE Trident blast

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Destroys an army of fish without the trident

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Toys with Aquaman using water manipulation and illusions

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Aquaman #46: Triton moves an entire city with ease

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Vaporizes a man

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Poseidon absorbs back his power

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Poseidon kills Triton with a behind the armpit stab

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Start the Conversation

Respect (Death Battle) Goku

I will only be taking feats from both Death Battle Animations. Now, without ado, enjoy Goku's respect thread.

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Respect Goku!

Blitzes Superman

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Gets smacked by Superman through a bunch of buildings then immediately after gets blitz by him but lands on his feet, just fine

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Withstands being blitz by Superman

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Smacks Superman around as Kaioken

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Busts Lexcorp with a Kamehameha

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Fights Superman at hyper speeds and gains the upper hand

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Beats Superman with the Power Pole

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Instant transmissions from Metropolis to some forest place across the ocean

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Stops Superman in his tracks

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Blitzes Superman in SSJ3 and busts a hill

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Blocks a blitz from Superman

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Takes a beating from Superman

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Fights Superman in hyperspeed again in SSJ4 and gains the upper hand again

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Fights through Superman's freeze breath

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Overpowers Superman's heat vision and sends him to the Sun

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Fires a massive Kamehameha

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Tanks gettings smashed into the core of the Earth from space by Superman

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Planet busts with Superman, by the ensuing explosion, kills him

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Busts through a mountain by kicking Superman through it

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Blasts away Superman with a Kamehameha

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Takes a beating from Superman but gets back up just fine

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Blocks heat vision

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Gets punched by Superman through large distances multiple times

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Battles Superman through nations

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Gets knocked through multiple buildings but doesn't stagger, and immediately starts whacking on Superman

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Unleashes a massive Kamehameha

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RIP Goku

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5 Comments

The Major Hellstrom Collection

I'm basically just going to list everything I did on here for future reference.

CaVs\Tourney Matches

This should be 70 but I can't find my match against Shirso

  1. Me using Sabretooth vs Aurelion using Kirei. (Win 3-1)
  2. Me (Terrax) and Foxerdes (Sinestro) vs. EmperorThanos (Ronan) and Yarva (Etrigan). (Unofficially canceled by Yarva)
  3. Me vs Aurelion again in a high street tourney. (Win 2-0)
  4. Me using Thragg and Brutaal vs SupremeGeneration using his flagship Iron Man and Hulk. (Canceled by SupremeGeneration)
  5. Me vs Multiversity in the second round of a high street tourney. (Won via forfeit)
  6. Me using Aang vs ANTHP using his team of water benders. (Unofficially cancled by ANTHP)
  7. Me using Injutice Supes vs KrleAvenger using N52 Supes. (Lose, 0-6)
  8. Me vs Arkbound in the same high street tourney. The semi finals. (Won via forfeit)
  9. Me (Composite Captain Marvel) and Foxerdes (Atrocitus) vs KrleAvenger (Silver Surfer) and Multiverity (Sersi). In doubles high tier tournament. (Unofficially canceled by Foxerdes)
  10. Me vs HigorM vs Blackestnight. The finals. (Lose, 0-5-2)
  11. Me using Hit-Girl vs. The Red Viper using the Hound. (Lose, 3-8)
  12. Me vs. Revan (Necronn) in the first round of another Ultimate Street tournament. (Won via forfeit)
  13. Me using Thragg vs. EmperorThanos using OPM character, Boros. (Lose, 0-5)
  14. Me using Doc Ock vs. Mial42 using Avatar Wan. (Win 3-0)
  15. Me vs Arkbound in an Ultimate Street tournament. (Lose 0-2)
  16. Me using the Mandarin vs. SFW using Mothra. (Lose 1-4)
  17. Me vs. God Vulcan in a high tier tournament. (Won via forfeit)
  18. Satan (JustSomeRandomKid) V.S. Shazam (Me). (Win 3-0)
  19. Me using Scorpion V.S. Valor175 using Booker Dewitt. (Unofficially canceled by Valor 175)
  20. High Tier Tourney RD2: Sovereign91001 vs Major_hellstorm. (Won via forfeit)
  21. Me (finally) using the Shocker vs. Tai Lung (Foxerdes). Became Loki vs Malekith. (Probably dead)
  22. Me and General Grievous and (Valor 175) Korosensei V.S. Saber (Jardinain2) and Midnighter (Shirso). (Unofficially canceled by Valor 175)
  23. Grab-your-best-friend Tournament Round 1: Lubub55 and High_Noon vs Major Hellstorm and Shirso. (Unofficially canceled by Lubub55 and High Noon)
  24. High Tier Tourney RD3: Major_hellstorm vs Mr_ingenuity(Open for votes). (Lose)
  25. Street PYP 5.0: Boschepg vs Major Helstorm. (Win 3-0)
  26. Me using Terrax V.S. Queen Marceline using Master Roshi. (Unofficially Canceled by Queen Marceline)
  27. Me using Avatar Korra against Cor Tsar using Mario. (Won via concession)
  28. Me, on what should be the last CaV I will start in a while, using YJ Superboy against Shirso using Luther Strode. (Win 3-0)
  29. MM Mid Tier Tourney: beatboks1 vs Major_Hellstorm. (Canceled)
  30. 2017 High Tier PYP 2nd Edition RD2: Emperorthanos vs Major_Hellstorm. (Lose, 1-3)
  31. Me against DarthJHawk in a mid tier comic vs manga CaV. (Lose, 0-1)
  32. Street PYP 5.0 Deathhero61 vs Major Hellstorm. (Lose 0-2)
  33. Me and BlackSpidey2099 using Ult Green Goblin and Spidey against Watcher5000 and Valor 175 with a manga team. (Lose, 2-3)
  34. Street PYP 6.0 R1: MajorHellstorm vs Causeimbatman. (Win 1-0)
  35. Me using DCEU Doomsday against Streak using Meruem. (Win 4-1)
  36. Me using Midnighter against Jlone using Gamora. (Ending)
  37. Me using Backlash against GV using Gang. (Discontinued)
  38. Street PYP 6.0 R1: The Red Viper vs Major Hellstrom. (Lose 0-3)
  39. Me using White Canary against All Father using Achilles. (Canceled by All Father)
  40. Me and Trust This using Pride and Deathstroke against DJH and CauseImBatman using Black Panther and Batman. (Ongoing)
  41. Me using Kraven vs Shaolin Cowboy used by Owie. (Voting, 0-1-0)
  42. Street Vs Mid Tourney RD 1: Major_Hellstorm vs Revan2424. (Canceled)
  43. Machine Man (Me) against Yokai, Hiro and Baymax. (Win 1-0)
  44. Me using Haunt against SMX using Baoh. (Discontinued)
  45. City Street-Block's Gambler R1: juiceboks vs king_hellstorm. (Unofficially canceled by Juiceboks)
  46. 2018 High Tier PYP 1st Edition RD1: Causeimbatman vs King_hellstorm. (Won via forfeit).
  47. Injustice Superman (me) V.S. Skaar (EmperorThanos). (One day).
  48. Comic Vine Forums Battles Quick Debate Street R1: King Hellstorm vs Chimeroid. (Lose, 0-3)
  49. Me using WM against DJH using IF against Watcher using Yang in a Three For All. (Discontinued)
  50. Me using Ironhide against CitizenSentry using Iron Man (Win 2-1)
  51. 2018 High Tier PYP 1st Edition RD2: King_hellstorm vs Chimeroid (Win, 4-1)
  52. 2018 Mid Tier PYP RD1: Major Hellstrom vs. Chromtheexalt (Won via forfeiture)
  53. Me using Fox Mr Fantastic vs KoL using MCU Thor (Tied, 2-2)
  54. 2018 Gothic/Steampunk PYP RD1: Major_Hellstorm vs Gearsecond659 (Win, 5-2)
  55. Me using B'wanna Beast vs Tooru Mutsuki (KingCrimson) (Discontinued)
  56. CaV: Major Hellstrom (Backlash) vs. Gearsecond (DCAU Damian Wayne and YJ Arsenal) (Win by concession)
  57. 2018 High Tier PYP 1st Edition Finals: Thewatcherking vs Apex_Pretador vs Major_Hellstorm (Lose via forfeit)
  58. 2018 High Tier PYP 2nd Edition RD1: Major_hellstorm vs Sirfizzwhizz (SFW got banned)
  59. CaV The Human Bomb (Major_Helstrom) vs Omega the Unknown (SirFizzWhizz) (SFW got banned)
  60. Me using Quasar in a triple threat (Gear and Streak had a disagreement regarding the rules)
  61. Me using DCEU Batman against MCU Crossbones in Amcu's first CaV (Win, 3-0)
  62. Me using Midnighter in a joke CaV against KoL's Galactus (Win by concession)
  63. Me using the Growing Man against Hyperion (Thunder Prince) (Win 1-0)
  64. Streak and I (Killua and Rocket) vs the newly weds (DCEU Wonder Woman and MCU Iron Man) (Discontinued).
  65. Crack Squad vs Teambuster CaV: GearSecond659 vs Major_Hellstrom (Gear never posted)
  66. Me using the CoC Wizard against GearSecond using MCU Doctor Strange (Win, 7-0)
  67. Me against Gear (A-Bomb vs Jinbe) (Gear forfeited)
  68. Street Tier PYP R1: Warlockmage vs Major_Hellstrom (Won via forfeit)
  69. 2019 High Tier PYP 1st Edition: Major_hellstrom vs Foxerdes (Won via forfeit)
  70. 2019 High Tier PYP 1st Edition Rd2: Major_Hellstorm vs TheWatcherKing (Ongoing

Characters I have Used in CaVs\Tourney Matches

This is roughly a complete list of characters that I used or was going to use in a CaV or tourney match.

  1. Sabertooth
  2. Terrax
  3. Kraven
  4. Werewolf By Night
  5. Six Gun Gorilla
  6. Prince Zuko
  7. Thragg
  8. Brutaal
  9. Aang
  10. Injustice Superman
  11. DC's Captain Marvel
  12. Hit Girl
  13. Roy Mustang
  14. Scorpion
  15. Kingpin
  16. Bolin
  17. Doctor Octopus
  18. The Mandarin
  19. Cyborg Superman
  20. Loki
  21. Darkness
  22. The Shocker
  23. General Grievous
  24. MCU Iron Man
  25. Mysterio
  26. Darthhawk
  27. Avatar Korra
  28. YJ Superboy
  29. Aspen Matthews
  30. N52 Aquaman
  31. Kid Omega
  32. Ban (SDS)
  33. Metamorpho
  34. DCAU Amazo
  35. Witchblade
  36. Kurome (AGK)
  37. Vlad Plasmius
  38. Weather Wizard
  39. Sandman
  40. Vermin
  41. Ult. Green Goblin
  42. DCEU Doomsday
  43. Midnighter
  44. Backlash
  45. Joker (BatB)
  46. Human Fly
  47. Tenzin
  48. Quan Chi
  49. Kazar and Zabu
  50. White Canary
  51. Pride (FMA)
  52. William Gravel
  53. Machine Man
  54. Haunt
  55. Darkling
  56. Reed Richards
  57. Manchester Black
  58. Captain Boomerang Jr.
  59. Mirai Kuriyama
  60. MCU War Machine
  61. Ironhide
  62. Taskmaster
  63. Evil Ernie
  64. Live Action Reed Richards
  65. Johnny Sorrow
  66. Thor (IDW)
  67. B'wanna Beast
  68. DCEU Batman
  69. Quasar
  70. Human Bomb
  71. Growing Man
  72. Rocket
  73. Kid Eternity
  74. Spot
  75. CoC Wizard
  76. A-Bomb
  77. Eraserhead
  78. MCU Captain America
  79. Iron Butterly
  80. Abra Kadabra
  81. Mano

Blogs

List of all my blogs from oldest to newest

  1. Reaching 2,500 posts/My Experince With Comic Vine So Far (Thanks). (my most commented on and first blog)
  2. CaVs I was in and stuff. (CaV list 1.0)
  3. The Community. Suggestion/Intro thread (Workshop thread for an old idea I had). Dupe thread
  4. Community's Finest: First Issue (First issue of a series I did with other users who have now left CV)
  5. The Community's Finest: Second Issue. (Second issue of this series which was just like The Daily Debater but for the whole Vine)
  6. Top 5 Things That I Dislike Seeing In a CaV (First blog I made cause I was triggered)
  7. My CaVs List (CaV list 2.0)
  8. Idea Testing: HoF Jr (Another workshop thread for another idea I had)
  9. Top 5 Most Prevalent Worst Kinds of Voters/Votes (Second top 5 "triggered" blog)
  10. When To Quote on CV (Me explaining quoting etiquette, also this got pinned for a bit)
  11. Guide To: Formatting on Mobile (Desktop Mode) (My second guide, I think I made this for Supergoku)
  12. CaV Record (A list of all my wins and losses in just CaVs and not tourneys)
  13. Reaching 15,000 posts! (Me reaching 15K and my honest opinion thread)
  14. Proper CaV Conduct (A hybrid of my guides and my triggered lists)
  15. Hellstrom's Bootcamp | A Newbie's Guide To The Battle Forums (My magnum opus, if you will. Basically my guide to everything a noob should know)
  16. My CaVs list 3.0 (CaV list 3.0)

Tournaments and Scenarios

All the tournaments and scenarios I hosted off the top of my head (there are others I can't remember, I'm sure)

  1. Low Mid Tier Challengers Tournament. (Tourney where the gimmick is that you can choose your opponent)
  2. High Tier Tournament (Just another high tier tourney)
  3. New Year's Survivors Tournament. (Tourney where the gimmick is you have to kill the other player)
  4. 2018 Mid Tier PYP 1st Edition (Tourney that a bunch of people helped host)
  5. Major Hellstorm's Forest Challenge Signups (Tourney that never got off the ground)
  6. The Battle Scenario Game (The first scenario I made cause I was triggered)
  7. Heroes VS. Villains Scenario (Scenario I took from Banthabot)
  8. Scenario: Spirit of Adventure (Last scenario I made)

Video things

16 Comments

My CaVs list 3.0

My CaVs List

  1. Me using Sabretooth vs Aurelion using Kirei. (Win 3-1)
  2. Me (Terrax) and Foxerdes (Sinestro) vs. EmperorThanos (Ronan) and Yarva (Etrigan). (Unofficially canceled by Yarva)
  3. Me vs Aurelion again in a high street tourney. (Win 2-0)
  4. Me using Thragg and Brutaal vs SupremeGeneration using his flagship Iron Man and Hulk. (Canceled by SupremeGeneration)
  5. Me vs Multiversity in the second round of a high street tourney. (Won via forfeit)
  6. Me using Aang vs ANTHP using his team of water benders. (Unofficially cancled by ANTHP)
  7. Me using Injutice Supes vs KrleAvenger using N52 Supes. (Lose, 0-6)
  8. Me vs Arkbound in the same high street tourney. The semi finals. (Won via forfeit)
  9. Me (Composite Captain Marvel) and Foxerdes (Atrocitus) vs KrleAvenger (Silver Surfer) and Multiverity (Sersi). In doubles high tier tournament. (Unofficially canceled by Foxerdes)
  10. Me vs HigorM vs Blackestnight. The finals. (Lose, 0-5-2)
  11. Me using Hit-Girl vs. The Red Viper using the Hound. (Lose, 3-8)
  12. Me vs. Revan (Necronn) in the first round of another Ultimate Street tournament. (Won via forfeit)
  13. Me using Thragg vs. EmperorThanos using OPM character, Boros. (Lose, 0-5)
  14. Me using Doc Ock vs. Mial42 using Avatar Wan. (Win 3-0)
  15. Me vs Arkbound in an Ultimate Street tournament. (Lose 0-2)
  16. Me using the Mandarin vs. SFW using Mothra. (Lose 1-4)
  17. Me vs. God Vulcan in a high tier tournament. (Won via forfeit)
  18. Satan (JustSomeRandomKid) V.S. Shazam (Me). (Win 3-0)
  19. Me using Scorpion V.S. Valor175 using Booker Dewitt. (Unofficially canceled by Valor 175)
  20. High Tier Tourney RD2: Sovereign91001 vs Major_hellstorm. (Won via forfeit)
  21. Me (finally) using the Shocker vs. Tai Lung (Foxerdes). Became Loki vs Malekith. (Probably dead)
  22. Me and General Grievous and (Valor 175) Korosensei V.S. Saber (Jardinain2) and Midnighter (Shirso). (Unofficially canceled by Valor 175)
  23. Grab-your-best-friend Tournament Round 1: Lubub55 and High_Noon vs Major Hellstorm and Shirso. (Unofficially canceled by Lubub55 and High Noon)
  24. High Tier Tourney RD3: Major_hellstorm vs Mr_ingenuity(Open for votes). (Lose)
  25. Street PYP 5.0: Boschepg vs Major Helstorm. (Win 3-0)
  26. Me using Terrax V.S. Queen Marceline using Master Roshi. (Unofficially Canceled by Queen Marceline)
  27. Me using Avatar Korra against Cor Tsar using Mario. (Won via concession)
  28. Me, on what should be the last CaV I will start in a while, using YJ Superboy against Shirso using Luther Strode. (Win 3-0)
  29. MM Mid Tier Tourney: beatboks1 vs Major_Hellstorm. (Canceled)
  30. 2017 High Tier PYP 2nd Edition RD2: Emperorthanos vs Major_Hellstorm. (Lose, 1-3)
  31. Me against DarthJHawk in a mid tier comic vs manga CaV. (Lose, 0-1)
  32. Street PYP 5.0 Deathhero61 vs Major Hellstorm. (Lose 0-2)
  33. Me and BlackSpidey2099 using Ult Green Goblin and Spidey against Watcher5000 and Valor 175 with a manga team. (Lose, 2-3)
  34. Street PYP 6.0 R1: MajorHellstorm vs Causeimbatman. (Win 1-0)
  35. Me using DCEU Doomsday against Streak using Meruem. (Win 4-1)
  36. Me using Midnighter against Jlone using Gamora. (Ending)
  37. Me using Backlash against GV using Gang. (Discontinued)
  38. Street PYP 6.0 R1: The Red Viper vs Major Hellstrom. (Lose 0-3)
  39. Me using White Canary against All Father using Achilles. (Canceled by All Father)
  40. Me and Trust This using Pride and Deathstroke against DJH and CauseImBatman using Black Panther and Batman. (Ongoing)
  41. Me using Kraven vs Shaolin Cowboy used by Owie. (Voting, 0-1-0)
  42. Street Vs Mid Tourney RD 1: Major_Hellstorm vs Revan2424. (Canceled)
  43. Machine Man (Me) against Yokai, Hiro and Baymax. (Win 1-0)
  44. Me using Haunt against SMX using Baoh. (Discontinued)
  45. City Street-Block's Gambler R1: juiceboks vs king_hellstorm. (Unofficially canceled by Juiceboks)
  46. 2018 High Tier PYP 1st Edition RD1: Causeimbatman vs King_hellstorm. (Won via forfeit).
  47. Injustice Superman (me) V.S. Skaar (EmperorThanos). (One day).
  48. Comic Vine Forums Battles Quick Debate Street R1: King Hellstorm vs Chimeroid. (Lose, 0-3)
  49. Me using WM against DJH using IF against Watcher using Yang in a Three For All. (Discontinued)
  50. Me using Ironhide against CitizenSentry using Iron Man (Win 2-1)
  51. 2018 High Tier PYP 1st Edition RD2: King_hellstorm vs Chimeroid (Win, 4-1)
  52. 2018 Mid Tier PYP RD1: Major Hellstrom vs. Chromtheexalt (Won via forfeiture)
  53. Me using Fox Mr Fantastic vs KoL using MCU Thor (Tied, 2-2)
  54. 2018 Gothic/Steampunk PYP RD1: Major_Hellstorm vs Gearsecond659 (Win, 5-2)
  55. Me using B'wanna Beast vs Tooru Mutsuki (KingCrimson) (Discontinued)
  56. CaV: Major Hellstrom (Backlash) vs. Gearsecond (DCAU Damian Wayne and YJ Arsenal) (Win by concession)
  57. Me using DCEU Batman against MCU Crossbones in Amcu's first CaV (Win, 3-0)
  58. Streak and I (Killua and Rocket) vs the newly weds (DCEU Wonder Woman and MCU Iron Man) (Discontinued).
  59. Me using the CoC Wizard against GearSecond using MCU Doctor Strange (Win, 7-0)
  60. Street Tier PYP R1: Warlockmage vs Major_Hellstrom (Ongoing).
3 Comments

Hellstrom's Bootcamp | A Newbie's Guide To The Battle Forums

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Introduction

Now, I'm sure some of you people just happened to stumble into this thread, wondering what it's all about. So before I begin, let me quickly answer some possible questions

Q: What Is This Thread?

A: This thread is the first part of my series guide to the battle forums. In this thread, I aim to cover everything new Viners will need to know, in a comprehensive and concise manner, without having to click away. This means that the following pieces of advice are my opinions, ones that you do not have to agree with.

I will be making three of these posts, to cover different topics. This week, it's back to basics, this will mainly be an orientation to the forums, a "how to act and how things work" of deal.

Q: Why Was This Made?

A: Because simply put, there is a distinct lack of good forum debaters on the Vine as opposed to the Vine 2-3 years ago. This is due to many factors, but overall I think it is due to one main thing, CV is in a transitional phase. Thanks to a combination of the rise of CBMs and comicbook\manga battles being stale over time, the focus of the battle forums is different now. This lead to an influx of newer users, and on top of that once active users have been leaving CV in droves (for various reasons). So due to this, I have decided to try to fast-track the development of potential active CV users by creating this thread, so any person interested in this forum can gain the tools they need in order to be a quality user and have a good time.

Q: What Is The Goal?

As I said, my goal is to give Viners a toolkit for them to use as they traverse the forum, so that they can hopefully become active and productive users. But more than that, I aim to host a Newbie Tournament around a month from now So as to prepare for the said tournament, I have created this guide for a potential participants to read, so that they would not be completely clueless as to how this forum works. I plan on making this a two parter if I have the time as well.

Q: Who Is This For?

First and foremost, it is for the newbs or users who are just getting into this side of CV. But more than that, it is also for older users who may want or need a refresher, or older users who just haven't learned some of this stuff yet, after all as they say "You don't know what you don't know".

Q: Didn't "MrRandomGuy" Already Cover "BlankTopic"?

In this post, I will be covering topics that have or may have already been discussed by somebody else, but that is their opinions on those topics and these are mine. So if you would rather use the other guides, that is fine. However, I will try to make this one more complete and relevant to the current CV climate.

Q: Do you have an awesome theme for this?

Good question. Lucky for you I did find a badass song for you to listen to make reading less dull. I made the picture just cause.

Now, with that out of the way, without further ado, let me present to you Major Hellstrom's guide to the Battle Forums............maggot!

=====================================================================================

1. Rules

Unlike the rest of this guide, the following rules are not my opinion but are official rules created by the mods. Now, what I have posted here is just a short TL;DR version of the rules I wrote, but the full list with explanations can be found here.

  • No Nudity or Sexually Explicit Photos
  • No references drugs unless strictly comic related
  • No cursing
  • No using slurs of any sort
  • No making threats
  • No partaking in or causing drama
  • Strictly no abusing or harassing anyone
  • No quoting a post which breaks the rules, as it is counted as rule-breaking as well
  • Post in the right sub-forum
  • No piracy
  • Make use of the flag button, that is the only acceptable retaliation to rule breakers
  • Strictly no spamming or trolling
  • Use the search function
  • Think before you type
  • Speak directly to a mod or a staff member if you have a problem with a mod
  • Speak in English
  • No plagiarism
  • Check your wiki submissions for spelling or information errors
  • Only use the flagging function if someone has broken the rules
  • No uploading duplicate photos into the wiki or breaking the scan rule, which is the law
  • Don't screen capture private conversations unless you have to, and do not post private messages to the public without permission
  • No talking about spoilers without using the spoiler button or warning users that you may be spoiling them.

2. Etiquette

Now that you've learned about things you can't do, now it is time to learn about proper etiquette.

Before I get into the characteristics which I believe every active user should have in order to have good etiquette, let us first define the word.

Definition of Eqttiquet

"The customary code of polite behavior in society or among members of a particular profession or group." -Google

So now, what does it mean to have polite behavior? Well, I'll get to that, but before we talk about what is polite, we must first discuss what is impolite, as that is the bare minimum that is required.

Do Not

  • Break the forum rules.

This one is obvious. But this means that you cannot insult, swear at, threaten to harm, or spam someone just because they said something you disagree with, and yes even if you are "objectively" right. It's against the rules, so it's obviously not good etiquette.

  • Prematurely judge\label people

It is important to note that you shouldn't judge someone based on just a few things that person has said, or done. In fact, you probably shouldn't judge people at all, but that's admittedly a little too difficult to apply. However, stopping yourself from judging people prematurely isn't that difficult I've seen this happen multiple times now; a user would say or do something dumb or trollish in one thread, then suddenly would get labeled as dumb or as a troll by the majority. Which is honestly pretty harsh and unneeded. Some newer users just may be ignorant about certain things thanks to being new, so they should at least be given a chance to grow and improve before being judged and mocked. Everyone has newb days, heck there was a time where I didn't even know what tiers were and thought that Hobgoblin vs Etrigan would make for a good fight. So the point is, take it easy on the newbs. Not everyone who says or does something silly is a troll or has some nefarious intent.

  • Derail the thread

An occasional joke or unrelated sentiment is fine here and there, as long as you are aware of your surroundings. If you moved the thread out of topic entirely, or if you can tell that you're out of topic posts are only amusing yourself, kindly delete them

A rule of thumb would be that if you notice that most of your posts are out off topic, your off-topic posts have buried the actual topic, or you have nothing on topic to actually say. Kindly leave the thread and\or delete your off-topic posts.

Do

  • Have Class

Respect may have to be earned, but that does not mean that you can go around treating people with no respect. Have some class. When you debate, always be aware that you are talking to other people, treat them with the same dignity and respect that you want to be shown. Don't be trashy or rude, that's just low class.

  • Keep An Open Mind

If you stick around in CV long enough, you will be wrong about something because you aren't infallible, no one is. So whenever you engage in a discussion, always try to keep an open mind and drop your biases, it won't harm you. Who knows, you could even learn something and change your mind, and changing your mind isn't a sign of weakness. It is a sign of humility. Just think of it like you are updating your OS.

  • Have Integrity

Few things are more intimidating than a person who can back up what they say without having to result to slimy tactics. So the technique here is simple, don't make promises you can't keep, and don't start battles you can't win clean. That way, you won't ever have to break your word. Now, I will be honest, I struggle with keeping my word as well, but it's something I'm working on.

3. Types of Battle Threads

So when you enter the battle forums you may stumble into different kinds of threads, and for a newbie that can be confusing. So let me now give you a rundown of common thread types you may encounter.

  • Normal Battle Thread

This one really needs no explanation. A character vs character battle or team vs team thread without any special stipulations is a normal battle thread.

  • Gauntlets

A gauntlet is a thread that pits a character or team into a series of battles. So if you want to know if, for example, you wanted to know if Batman can beat Bane, Hawkeye, the Lizard and MCU Scarlet Witch, you can create a singular thread pitting Batman against them in a gauntlet match where he goes up against each opponent round by round. Gauntlets are usually ordered by power level, and the person taking the gauntlet usually gets to heal up fully before every round.

  • Multi-round threads

Some battle threads may feature a battle with multiple stipulations and different rounds for each different set of stipulations. For example, you can create a thread like "Captain America vs MCU Warmachine. Round 1: Morals on. Round 2: Morals off." if you want to know the outcome of more than one situation.

  • CaVs

A CaV is a thread wherein two more Viners who agreed to a debate, represent character\s of their choosing, and present arguments and reasonings as to why their character\s will win the hypothetical battle. After the debate is done, the CaV will be open for votes, which means that any Vine will be allowed to vote on which debater they think performed better. Voters are expected to give reasonings and be unbiased, otherwise, the vote may not be counted.

  • Scenarios

Now, there are two types of scenarios in the battle forums. 1. A thread wherein Viners role play as characters of their choosing or creation, in a story style game. 2. A thread where the thread maker, puts a character into a situation that isn't necessarily a straight-up battle. For example, if you want to know if MCU Winter Soldier can stop a bank robbery with "X" parameters, you can make a thread about the topic.

  • Tournaments

like scenarios, there are two types of tournaments. 1. A tournament between Viners, which is just a bunch of CaVs where the winner of each CaV proceeds unto the next round. 2. A tournament between characters, in these threads you have to say which character moves on to which round and which character wins the tourney, pretty self-explanatory.

  • Banned Battles

This part is not my opinion, it is part of official forum rules. Banned battles include battles between Dragon Ball characters fighting non-anime originating characters (I.e Goku vs Superman or Beerus vs Dante), "fake" characters that come from unpublished media (I.e fanfiction characters), universe vs universe battles (I.e. Marvel vs DC), omnipotent characters (I.e TOAA vs MCU Cap), excessive numbers battles (I.e 1,000 Hulks vs Galactus), religious figures (I.e Jesus vs Hercules).

Mismatches will also be locked, as will troll threads.

4. Formatting Tools

This will just be a brief overview of what each button above the textbook does.

For reference, this is the options you are given, I will cover what each tool does from left to right.

No Caption Provided
  • Paragraph

If you hover above the paragraph button, you will be greeted by the words "Header 4", "Header 3", "Header 2". Clicking on each header will increase the size of your text, with4 being the smallest and 2 being the biggest.

  • Bold

When you clock on the letter "B", you will make it so that every letter you press afterward will look like this. Pressing it again turns off the effect, and you may highlight what you want to be bolded before clicking the bold button so that you can bold multiple words at once.

  • Italics

The italics button functions much like the bold button does, except your words will become italicized like this.

  • Underscore

Underscore works the same way, except it underscores your words.

  • Strikethrough

Strikethrough also works the same way, but it strikesthrough your words. You may also use multiple effects at once like so, you can even use them all at once.

  • Bullet Point

Bullet points are what I have been using. If you press on the bullet point button, it creates a bullet point like so

You can create many in a row, but pressing "Enter" twice in a row will delete your bullet point

  • Numbered List

The numbered list works the same way, except it numbers your bullet points automatically, like this

  1. First is the worst
  2. Second is the best
  3. The third is the one with the hairy, hairy chest
  • Indent Left\Right

These buttons make it so that you can move your text around,

like so

However, it may not always work with images.

  • Quote

The quote option, when pressed, makes text look like

this

You can also source your quotes by hovering over the quote and clicking "Credit"

like this

The Great Hellstrom
  • Link

Clicking the link button allows you to create clickable links like so. But if you are a newb, you are not given the option to link off-site until you gain enough posts.

  • Image

This allows you to upload images from different sources, like this

No Caption Provided

If you stack photos sideways, they will look like this (open them in a new tab to see the full photo)

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6

You can also upload most GIFs this way.

  • Video

The video button allows you to upload videos. I would give an example but you cannot put videos under spoiler block, as they disappear.

  • Table

The table button allows you to create an excel sheet style table, but again, you cannot create tables under spoiler block.

  • Spoiler

The spoiler block button blacks out text unless you hover above the text. Like this. It functions like the bold\italics\underline\strikethrough functions as well.

  • Spoiler Block

Clicking spoiler block creates blocks for parts of your post, you can view spoiler blocks by clicking on them. This is good for sectioning off long posts, covering images for neatness and for covering spoilers (of course).

And that's all you need to really know.

5. When To Quote

As I just taught you how to use the superpower that is the quoting button, I shall now teach you how to properly wield this tool. As with great power comes great responsibility. (This is just a C\P from my older blog)

When To Quote

There are two quote buttons in CV, one next to the "Reply" button when you hover over other users' messages, and another in your toolbox above your text box. Here, I will teach you when to use both.

The quote button in Comic Vine is only really used for 3 things, 1. If you are directly quoting what someone said to talk about a specific statement they made. 2. If you are continuing a conversation thread with more than one person. 3. If you are quoting from an official source.

Type 1:

So basically you can quote something like this:

@Major_hellstorm said:

Bump. I might go through with this real soon.

So when will you get to it?

As you can see, there I am specifically referencing something said by *cough cough* another user, so quoting would make sense and it would be better since it allows me to know what you are talking about from my notification box, because sometimes if you are just tagged you have no idea what the other user is talking about, especially if some time has passed.

You can also use this function when debating around the forums. But remember don't do this quote your opponent's entire argument and just bold your statements or anything like that, it may just be my preference but doing this is so much cleaner.

I believe that Kraven has what it takes to win, can he win if he fights them all at once 4v1? Probably not. But luckily he does not have to, with a 100 feet of distance he has plenty of room to operate, that combined with his poisons that he can use to temporarily take out some of the Turtles and his Hunter mentality and you don't get a straight fight.

Yes, but you forget the Turtles are trained Ninja, they wouldn't allow Kraven to control the fight either.

You get Kraven systematically eliminating them all one at a time, something he did in the past against the X-Men

A young and inexperienced X-Men and he had Blob's help.

As you can see, using segments is better. Just copy paste what you what to respond to one at a time and hit the quote button then put your reply below the quote (make sure your reply is not also in quote mode).

Lastly, if you are debating multiple people at once make sure to quote them all and separate their posts.

Type 2:

If you are talking among multiple friends, in a thread where what you are saying is relevant, then you may quote them like so

@Johnnyboi said:
@ranom said:

Pssh. Kraven took on the X-Men, the turtles' numbers won't stop him.

Agreed.

As you can see, this is one of the only appropriate times to quote

Type 3:

Lastly when you quote from a wiki or a book you can do so like this:

Robert "Bobby" Drake was a mutant who joined the X-Men sub-unit known as the New Mutants. His codename is Iceman. He is believed to be the leader of the New Mutants. He is shown to be carefree and fun loving, although very caring of his friends.[citation needed]

He is one of the most shown New Mutants, along with Amara Aquilla. He is shown to be close friends with almost all of the New Mutants and with Kitty Pryde. He was one of the few New Mutants to go on an official Mission. He is believed to be bad at Science for he is one of the students who went with Beaston an extra credit field trip to the Redwood forest. Even though he doesn't appear to be, he is very level headed in a panic and thinks of others first.

Marvel Wiki

Remember to use the credit button.

When Not To Quote:

  • When you aren't quoting a statement directly.
  • When someone not part of your conversation is part of the tag (just delete the tag, it is super easy).
  • When the original text is already so over-quoted that it is unreadable, start a new chain, please.

And here is when to never quote

  • Never quote a bunch of scans, especially non-spoiler blocked ones. It slows down the page.
  • Never quote a callout list unless it is important. A bunch of users will get tagged for likely no reason.
  • Never quote when you are specifically told not to quote.
  • Never start a chain of quotes without removing any and all users not part of the conversation (you think you may not do this, vets, but you do, I get tagged by this a lot).

6. Desktop Mode

Desktop mode is a feature that most mobile browsers have. Using it will allow you to have the desktop versions of your favorite sites. Here I will explain how to access it and how to use it (this is also just C\P from my old blog).

Accessing Desktop Mode:

This part is really simple and usually can be done in just 2 taps.

For Google Chrome you just have to press the top right corner then request desktop mode like this

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As you can see, al you have to do is click on the 9th option and the page will reload into a desktop page.

For Firefox it is largely the same with a slightly different looking interface.

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On Dolphin, you go to settings then turn on desktop mode. The desktop mode on Dolphin is differently from the others as in Chrome and Firefox, you on desktop mode per tab but on here when you on it the whole application goes into desktop mode.

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And lastly, on Safari you click the share icon then turn on desktop mode.

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Tips:

1. Scans

I recommend that if you intend to post more than 1 scan at a time, then you should PM yourself all the scans or organize your scans in your mobile device's gallery. This will give you easy access to scans, and it will reduce the number of crashes and glitches.

Also, if you are an IOS user, I recommend getting a file viewer since the options in Apple's built in the photo album are limited.

2. Saving Your Post

I strongly recommend that you 1. PM yourself your post every other paragraph or so (depending on it's length) 2. Get a clipboard application, this will save things you have copied into the app so even if CV crashes you will be safe. Always be sure to select all copy every so often and before you send anything.

3. Editing Your Post

If you have to edit your post majorly, I suggest using Word or a similar app as that automatically saves whatever you type. Also, use a grammar checker, typing on mobile when you are used to PC gives you a lot of embarrassing typos.

Do not in under any circumstances edit a formatted post outside your PC or desktop mode. You will lose all formatting and scans if you do.

3. Formatting

There really is no hacks to this. If you want a nice post, you will need to work for it. Desktop mode can do virtually anything your PC can do so you can make posts from mobile that looks exactly like a PC post, it just depends on how much work you put into it. Although I will say that if you are using desktop mode for the first time, you shouldn't expect amazing posts right away.

4. General Tips

  1. Get yourself a keyboard. If you intend to use desktop mode in a lot or in a lot of sites. You don't need one however and some people do prefer typing on the screen.
  2. Proofread your post on PC or make an outline your PC. You can do either or, both will improve the quality of your posts and can save you from embarrassing mistakes.
  3. Use the keyboard shortcuts.These are keyboard shortcuts. They can help you be more efficient.
  4. Know what you are typing. Most of the time when your post gets deleted, your scans are safe since it gets saved to your account the moment it gets uploaded. This means that if you do mess up, the hardest part will be re-typing everything and it will be much easier to redo the post if you know what you are typing.

7. Comic Vine Hot Keys

As you may know by now, if you use a PC, there are such things as keyboard shortcuts or hotkeys. Learning what they are can save you a lot of time, so I shall list down the important ones for you. Note: I use Google Chrome, not sure if these are universal.

  • Ctrl + C copies highlighted text.
  • Ctrl + B toggles the "Bold" function, as discussed earlier.
  • Ctrl + F opens the search function, which is a little text box that will search the page you are in for words you type into the textbox.
  • Ctrl + I toggles the "Italics" function.
  • Ctrl + S Saves links and documents for you.
  • Ctrl + U toggles the "Underline" function"
  • Ctrl + V pastes stored text.
  • Ctrl + Z undoes the last thing you did, so if you pasted or deleted something accidentally, immediately use this command.
  • Ctrl + Y Undoes the undoing. If you pressed Ctrl + Z by accident, use this to undo it.

8. Battle Forum Terms

In the battle forum, you may encounter some of these commonly used acronyms or words that you may not know the meaning of, here I will explain what the most commonly used terms in the battle forums are and what they mean.

  • Amp: An amp refers to an upgrade or amplification of power, which makes a character stronger than their standard levels. Such as a Green Lantern with Blue Lantern energy.
  • BFR: This stands for "Battle Field Removal" and is the act of taking away the designated battlefield by leaving the battlefield or being forced out by your opponent\forcing out your opponent. It may also refer to completely destroying and\or changing the battlefield in such a way that one side gains an unfair advantage. BFR is usually banned in most debates so that a character may only win by death\KO\submission.
  • Bias: A bias is a preconceived notion against or for an idea or character.
  • Bloodlusted: Bloodlust refers to a state wherein a character is no longer holding back and will now use every ounce of power they have to go for the kill. It may also refer to a frenzied state in which the character craves blood, which may affect a character's skill level.
  • Brick: A character who relies heavily or only on their physical abilities such as the Thing or Hulk.
  • CaV: This stands for "Challenge a Viner", and as stated before this is a thread wherein Viners challenge each other to more formal debates representing their chosen characters.
  • Canon: The word canon refers to whether or not something is in continuity or not.
  • Composite: The word composite means that the character gets accesses to feats from all versions and continuities, usually does not include amps.
  • CQC: This stands for "Close quarters combat", this refers to battles where ranged weapons and\or powers are banned from use.
  • EoS: This stands for "End of Series". This acronym is usually used in stories such as mangas or animes where there are endings to the series, usually hinting that a character gets an altered power level and\or power set by the end of the series.
  • Feat: A feat is a showing or a scan wherein a character does something impressive or worth showing. I.e bullet timing.
  • FTL: This stands for "Faster Than Light" and refers to a character being able to move at speeds faster than light itself.
  • H2H: This stands for "Hand to hand", which refers to battles where neither powers nor weapons are allowed to be used.
  • Hax: Hax refers to unorthodox abilities and\or an ability taht takes special resistances to counter.
  • Jobbing\Jobber: To job means to either have a low showing in order to make someone else look good, or to have irregular high\low showings. Jobbers are people who frequently job. An example of a jobber would be Karnak, a character who by feats and hype should be able to perform well against other Marvel fighters, yet gets one shotted by BP in two occasions.
  • LA: This stands for "Live Action" and pertains to the live action version of a character (like the MCU or DCEU versions).
  • Mismatch: A mismatch pertains to a battle that is so onesided that it is no longer debatable. I.e World Breaker Hulk vs Matter-Eater Lad.
  • Morals on\off: This pertains to whether or not a character will have to follow their moral code or not.
  • OOC: This stands for "Out of Character" and refers to an action a character could take but doesn't due to said action not being something that the character would resort to in the given situation.
  • OP: This stands for "Original Poster", in other words the thread creator.
  • Outlier: An outlier is a feat that goes against established power levels, this can be a feat that is too low or too high of a showing.
  • PIS: This stands for "Plot induced stupidity" this refers to anything that goes against established feats and or\canon which only happens or does not happen due to the plot. Like Flash getting tagged by Catwoman.
  • Prep: Prep is short for "preparation time", and refers to a period of time where a character is given time to prepare for an upcoming battle.
  • Scan: Scans refer to snippets or pages that come mangas, light novels or comic books.
  • Solo: To solo means to be able to beat a team by oneself.
  • Speedblitz: To speedblitz means to be able to hit\kill\takedown an opponent before they can react or launch a counterattack.
  • Spite: A spite thread is an intentionally mismatched thread.
  • Stalemate: A stalemate refers to a fight when neither side can get the better of the other.
  • Stomp: A stomp refers to a fight where one side would beat the other with ease. Such as Spider-Man vs Nightwing.
  • T4V: T4V stands for "Tag for Votes" and is used in CaV threads, where viewers may be asked to get tagged for when the CaV goes into its voting period.
  • TK: Stands for telekinesis.
  • TP: Stands for Telepathy.
  • Underrated: To be underrated a character is to unfairly think that the character is weaker than their feats would have them be.
  • Wank: To wank a character is to overestimate or oversell that character's feats, either intentionally or not. The term wanker is a term for people who wank a lot but it may be considered offensive by mods.

Note: Always use context clues. if you are in a thread such as "Darkseid vs Thanos" and someone uses the acronym "DS" they are most likely referring to Darkseid. This is the same acronym Deadshot and Deathstroke use for example, so be aware.

9. Common Types of Feats and Where To Find Them

A common mistake newbies make is assuming that all feats are the same\equal. But that is not the case. Here I will break down the common types of feats, roughly in order of most reliable to least reliable.

Types of Feats

  • Tangible feats

Tangible feats are in-panel feats that are cut and dry, feats that are self-explanatory, requiring no calculations, interpretations or scaling. These feats usually happen against tangible real-world objects. An example of this would be something like shown planet busting by an unamped character.

  • Basic Scaling

Basic scaling feats are feats that require a basic explanation as to why a feat was impressive, this means that very few assumptions need to be made. So say Deathstroke beat Nightwing clean, in a fight where Nightwing was clearly not holding back. You can then scale Deathstroke to Nightwing to show why Deathstroke beating him was impressive.

  • Off Panel

Off Panel feats are canon feats that happen outside of the pages of comics but are easily provable as something that did take place. An off panel feat would look something like this. When using off panel feats, try to not make any assumptions.

  • Statements

A statement is a feat that is purely hypothetical. Such as a character stating their capabilities, character stating another character's capabilities, a computer, author or guidebook stating a character's abilities etc.

To clarify, if a character states that one character beat another that would be an off-panel feat, but if a character states that one character could beat another, then that is just a statement. There are also multiple degrees of trustworthiness when it comes to scaling but that isn't something needed for the basics.

  • Advanced Scaling

Advanced scaling is scaling without direct correlation. For example, if you scaled Deathstroke to Nightwing, then Nightwing to Batman, then that would be advanced scaling. Another type example would be scaling Bakugo off of Deku based on how they performed on a similar test.

  • Calculations

Calculations or calcs are feats that are backed up by math instead of any tangible or comic book evidence, usually using a lot of assumptions.

Where To Find Feats

there is only one place to find feats, the medium where the character comes from. If you are repping Spidey you gotta read Spidey comics, if you are repping Lan Fan you better watch and\or read FMA. There is no two ways about it. Don't get feats from RTs or CaVs if you don't know the context to them (also ask for permission).

ComicbookDB will help you find out a comic book character's chronological appearances and Gfycat can help you create GIFs easily.

10. Common Fallacies

People in CV sure use a lot of fallacies, so here is a short list of 5 fallacies that Viners need to stop using.

  • Ad Hominem Fallacy

The Ad Hominem Fallacy is a type of argument which attacks the person you are debating against instead of their argument. An example would be something like

User A: Superman is FTL because "Y" argument.

User B: You are so stupid therefore your argument must be false therefore Superman is not FTL.

  • Straw Man

A strawman argument is a way of twisting your opponent's words in order to make it seems as if they have a weak argument that you can take down. An example would be something like

User A: Invincible can fight Thragg, a character much stronger than Omni Man, so Invincible should be stronger than Omni Man.

User B: So you think Invincible would stomp Omni Man? Lol, no "insert flawed reasoning here" so Omni Man wouldn't be stomped.

  • Circular Reasoning

Circular reasoning is a type of argument that is only supported by itself. For example

User A: Martian Manhunter is FTL because Wonder Woman is FTL.

User B: How do you know WW is FTL?

User A: Because she can keep up with MMH, who is FTL.

  • Bandwagon Fallacy

The bandwagon fallacy is an argument that relies on popularity. For example

User A: Punisher would beat Batman.

User B: No, he wouldn't, because Batman can "insert reasoning here"

User A: Yes he would because everyone else says so.

  • Argument From Fallacy

An argument from fallacy is a logical line of reasoning that dictates that if your opponent used a fallacy, their entire argument must be bad. For example

User A: Star-Lord would beat Falcon because "insert reasons here" and everyone else says so.

User B: That's the Bandwagon Fallacy, flawed argument.

User A: And that's the argument from fallacy, get rekt.

Closing Thoughts

Well, that was pretty long-winded. But if you've made it this far then awesome! I hope you've learned something from this, and if you did I hope you will use that knowledge to become a better user.

Any questions, disagreements, suggestions, and feedback you may have is welcome, though preferably in a PM.

I salute you on your journey, good luck.

37 Comments

Proper CaV Conduct

Preface

First of all, I am not writing this because I'm self righteous or something. I will openly admit that I have not had proper conduct in all of my debates. This is not a post talking about about who I am now, it is a post explaining who I try to be. I share this publicly, because there have been a couple things that have annoyed me recently, and I thought that maybe if I posted this, I would see it less. Also, keep in mind that this is obviously just my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt. Also this is all just off the top of my head

Now with that out of the way, I would like to explain how I think CaVers should conduct themselves, as quickly as possible.

Pre-CaV

When it comes to making a CaV, the two most important characteristics are clarity and honesty. Now what do I mean by that? I mean that when you propose a match, especially if you are directly offering a match to someone, you should always........

1. Clearly explain how powerful your characters are and what hax they have. Yes, I know it is very tempting to attempt to pull a fast one on your opponent, especially when you have an unknown character, but it is honestly just a cheap a tactic that kills the fun for your opponent and is just a jerk move. How detailed you are is up to you, but it doesn't really matter as long as you are honest and clear. 2. Discuss the rules. A lot of the time people just use the standard rules, and that is fine, especially when you opponent tells you to make the thread. But if you want to add a particular rule that may change the debate, even if only slightly, (character version and\or limitations, win condition\s or battle field) it is always best to ask your opponent if they are okay with it first. 3. Be honest about how often you can post. This is just a mini point because these days CaVers seem to go on CV every other day, but if you can't post often or are going on a holiday, always be sure to notify your opponent so they can adjust their expectations.

TLDR

  1. Be honest and clear about your character\s capabilities.
  2. Make sure the rules are clear and agreed upon.
  3. Make sure to make time constraints clear.

In CaV

Whereas in the pre-CaV the most important characteristics are honesty and clarity. I would say in a debate the most important aspects is respect and integrity. Now before I start this, I'd like to say that I do believe that respect should be earned, but I also believe that disrespect should be deserved as well, so you don't go around treating everyone with 0 respect until they've earned your approval, there should be a reason that you lack respect for someone. Earning respect works both ways. But as I was saying, you have to treat your opponent with respect. Which means:

1. Unless your opponent is okay with it, mockery, salt and trash talk should go out the door. 2. Stop with the cheap shots, seriously. The last post is not meant for you to bring up surprise points that your opponent cannot counter, if you are the last poster all you can do is counter your opponent's rebuttals and claims, no new points. This also means, no intentionally "sneakily" cutting parts out of your opponent's argument, no twisting their words or the evidence, none of that.

And in terms of integrity you always have to.......

1. Know your scans. Yeah, unless it is a gimmick like it some tourneys, stop RT debating, RTs are there for you to either get to know a character or have easy access to a compilation of feat you already know the context to. 2. Know your claims. Obviously, you have to back up everything you claim, every piece of your argument that matters needs to be backed. But also please, for the love of all things holy, stop making claims when you don't know what you are talking about. Don't compare your character to your opponents if you don't know anything about your opponent's character and don't make claims about your opponent's character if you have no knowledge on them. It will prevent you from poetically looking bad and it's super annoying to deal with baseless claims. AKA 3. Just do your research. Yes, it is time consuming but if you don't have the time, don't join a CaV with or against a character you do not know. 4. Fight clean. Lastly, don't really on dirty tactics. Don't rely on broken abilities or a stronger character, don't rely on dirty tricks like cropping scans. Rely on your character and your skill. If you don't think you can do it with just that, then concede, winning isn't everything. Also keep in mind the word rely, using mind games and hax here and there is fine, but it shouldn't be your main weapon.

TLDR

  1. Respect your opponent.
  2. Do your research before you say anything.
  3. Rely on your skill in debating to win, not cheap tricks.

Post CaV

You know the drill for know. The two most important characteristics for this category is contentment and good sportsmanship. This super simple, in fact everything I wrote here is simple, all you have to do is 1. Be content with the arguments you have already made, and trust in them, proof reading before posting helps a lot in this aspect. This means once the debate is done, it's done. No adding new arguments, just let the voters vote. Also in terms of voters, that is where good sportsmanship comes in. Because with good sportsmanship you will know not to 2. Argue with voters. Asking for more clarification or detail is fine but anything beyond that is not. If you aren't satisfied with the vote and have reason to believe it is biased, simply talk it over with your opponent in hopes that it will no longer be counted. 3. Beg for votes. Again, there is a fine line between advertising your debates and intentionally asking, even pestering people to vote. Especially when you ask people who will be biased to vote (and let's be honest 90% of vote beggars get biased votes. It is a subconscious bias you instill unto a voter if you ask them directly for a vote) such as your friends or someone who is a fan of the character you are representing. I have had 55 debates, with indie\cartoon\comics\anime\video game characters, known and unknown alike, and let me tell you it is hard to find voters some times, but they will come eventually, maybe not a lot of them but they will come. So stop begging for votes, it is really annoying, you have no reason to do it and it is pretty obvious you are desperate for a win. More on bad voters here.

TLDR

  1. Be content with your posts
  2. Have an open mind and try to understand the reasoning behind the votes.
  3. Stop begging for votes.

Overall

To sum it all up in 3 words

Credit to FC
Credit to FC

Don't be a wimp. Never say die, fight with honor and intelligence till the last word, if you do so, you may not win every match, but you sure as heck will steadily improve and have some great matches. And anyway, if you lose, then so what? It's just Comic Vine. Get back up, see why you lost, improve and try again.

EDIT: Also just want to add that some people may have the thought of "It's just a CaV, it's not a big deal if I rely on cheap tricks" instead of "It's just a CaV, it's not a big deal if I lose", and in fairness both are true. But 1. While CaVs aren't a big deal, it feels a lot more frustrating to be tricked than to lose, at least from my experience. 2. It's a bad practice. If you get used to cheating in the small stuff like CaVs, it may affect your outlook on bigger things outside of CV.

Anyway, that was just my thoughts, what do you guys think?

43 Comments

Reaching 15,000 posts!

Unlike my last thread like this (which coincidentally was my first blog), I don't really have much to say, or rather, I can't be bothered to write out my thoughts. However, surpassing 15K is quite a milestone especially since I have been on here for only a year and change, so I thought I should make a thread in celebration.

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This also officially means I have no life as I post on average 30.98 times per day. so........celebration for that

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Oh yeah, and since it's a milestone thread, I'm expected to either do shout-outs or an AMA, but I decided to to neither and instead merge the two concepts.

So I will give you my honest opinion of you if you ask me to (and if I know you well enough). And since this is a public thread, I am guaranteed to only say pleasant things.

38 Comments

CaV Record

Because I was bored and recently started my 50th debate (so I officially have no life).

Here are a list of all my CaVs:

Wins

DebatesResults
CAV: Sabretooth (M_H) vs Kirei Kotomine (Pr0)Victory, 3-1
CaV: Terrax (Major_Hellstorm) and Sinestro (Foxerdes) vs Ronan ( EmperorThanos) and Etrigan (Yarva)Victory through forfeit
CaV: (SG) Hulk and Iron Man V.S. (M_H) Brutaal and General Regent ThraggVictory through forfeit
CaV: Team Waterbenders (ANTHP2000) vs Avatar Aang (major_hellstorm)Victory through forfeit
CaV: Doctor Octopus (Major_Hellstorm) vs Avatar Wan (Mial42) Victory, 3-0
CaV: 666:Satan (Justsomerandomkid) vs Shazam (Major_Hellstorm) Victory, 3-0
CaV:Major_Hellstorm (Scorpion) Vs Valor_175 (Booker DeWitt)Victory through forfeit
CaV: Mystique (Foxerdes) vs Shocker (Major_Hellstorm)Victory through forfeit/concession
CaV: (Major Hellstorm) Terrax the Tamer V.S. Master Roshi (Queen Marceline)Victory through forfeit
Plumber vs Avatar CAV?Victory through concession
CaV: (Shirso) Luther Strode vs. YJ Superboy (Major Hellstorm)Victory, 3-0
CaV: (Major_Hellstorm) DCEU Doomsday VS. Meruem (Streak619). Victory, 4-1
CaV: (God_Vulcan) Gang Ryong vs. Backlash (Major_Hellstorm). It's complicated
CaV : CW White Canary (Major_Hellstorm) vs Achilles (All-Father)Victory through concession
CaV (King_Hellstorm) Machine Man vs (Banthabot) Yokai and Hiro/BaymaxVictory, 1-0

Loses

DebatesResults
CaV: Battle of Supermen - KrleAvenger vs Major_Hellstorm Defeat, 0-6
CaV: The Hound (The Red Viper) V.S. Hit-Girl (Major Hellstorm).Defeat, 3-8
CaV: Boros (EmperorThanos) VS. General Thragg (Major_Hellstorm). Defeat, 0-5
CaV Major_Hellstorm (Mandarin) vs Sirfizzwhizz (Mothra) Defeat, 1-4
CaV: Jardinain2 (Saber) and Shirso (Midnighter) V.S. Valor_175 (Koro-Sensei) and Major Hellstorm (General Grievous)TKO
CAV: Luffy & Ichigo (Darthjhawk) vs Weather Wizard & Sandman (Major_Hellstorm) Defeat, 0-1
CaV Spider-Man(Blackspidey) and Green Goblin(MH) vs Ken Kaneki(Valor) and Garou(Watcher)Defeat, 2-3

Ongoing

DebatesSatus
CaV: (Major_Hellstorm) Midnighter VS. Gamora (Jloneblackheart)Ending
CaV: Deathstroke (KL) and Pride (KH) vs. Black Panther (DJH) and Batman (CIB). Open for votes
CaV: Kraven (King_Hellstorm) vs Shaolin Cowboy (Owie) Open for votes (please)
CAV : Haunt (King_Hellstorm) VS Baoh (SMXLR8)Ending
CaV: EmperorThanos (Skaar) V.S. King Hellstorm (Injustice Superman)Ongoing
Three Way CaV: TheWatcherKing (Yang) vs. DarthJHawk (Iron Fist) vs. King Hellstorm (MCU War Machine)Hiatus
CAV: MCU Iron Man (CitizenSurfer) vs. Ironhide (King_Hellstorm)Ongoing

11 Comments

Guide To: Formatting on Mobile (Desktop Mode)

Recently the topic has been brought up in a thread, which got me thinking. Now I know that there are short guides on CV that show you how to access desktop mode but this blog will be a little more in-depth and hopefully a little more helpful.

Accessing Desktop Mode:

This part is really simple and usually can be done in just 2 taps. Desktop mode will allow you get that task bar above the textbox, which gives you all the features of the PC. Now depending on which browser app you use there will be different ways so I will cover 4 of the best ones (Chrome, Firefox, Dolphin and Safari)

For Google Chrome you just have to press then top right corner then request desktop mode like this

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As you can see, al you have to do is click on the 9th option and the page will reload into a desktop page.

For Firefox it is largely the same with a slightly different looking interface.

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On Dolphin you go to settings then turn on desktop mode. The desktop mode on Dolphin is differently from the others as in Chrome and Firefox, you on desktop mode per tab but on here when you on it the whole application goes into desktop mode.

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And lastly, on Safari you click the share icon then turn on desktop mode.

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Tips:

1. Scans

I recommend that if you intend to post more than 1 scan at a time, then you should PM yourself all the scans or organize your scans in your mobile device's gallery. This will give you easy access to scans, and it will reduce the amount of crashes and glitches.

Also, if you are an IOS user, I recommend getting a file viewer since the options in Apple's built in photo album are limited.

2. Saving Your Post

I strongly recommend that you 1. PM yourself your post every other paragraph or so (depending on it's length) 2. Get a clipboard application, this will save things you have copied into the app so even if CV crashes you will be safe. Always be sure to select all copy every so often and before you send anything.

3. Editing Your Post

If you have to edit your post majorly, I suggest using Word or a similar app as that automatically saves whatever you type. Also, use a grammar checker, typing on mobile when you are used to PC gives you a lot of embarrassing typos.

Do not in under any circumstances edit a formatted post outside your PC or desktop mode. You will lose all formatting and scans if you do.

3. Formatting

There really is no hacks to this. If you want a nice post, you will need to work for it. Desktop mode can do virtually anything your PC can do so you can make posts from mobile that looks exactly like a PC post, it just depends on how much work you put into it. Although I will say that if you are using desktop mode for the first time, you shouldn't expect amazing posts right away.

4. General Tips

  1. Get yourself a keyboard. If you intend to use desktop mode in a lot or in a lot of sites. You don't need one however and some people do prefer typing on screen.
  2. Proof read your post on PC or make an outline your PC. You can do either or, both will improve the quality of your posts and can save you from embarrassing mistakes.
  3. Use the keyboard shortcuts. These are keyboard short cuts. They can help you be more efficient.
  4. Know what you are typing. Most of the time when your post gets deleted, your scans are safe since it gets saved to your account the moment it gets uploaded. This means that if you do mess up, the hardest part will be re-typing everything and it will be much easier to redo the post if you know what you are typing.

Closing

I have done many things using desktop mode (made a CaV post, a blog and a scenario). But be warned, you will need patience in order to use this as a post that would take 2 hours on a PC can take more than 3 on mobile.

Desktop mode is also cumbersome and super glitchy in IOS (which is why I use Dolphin on my iPad since it is the most stable). The page will refresh quickly if you quit the browser, deleting your progress. That is why there are many safety measures that I mentioned above that you should take.

Also this should go without saying, but your device should at last be as big as an XL phone to be useable (like the iPhone 6 Plus).

P.S. This was done using desktop mode.

23 Comments
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