@corapvp: Xavier fresh out of Brain surgery didnt stomp Exodus. He got dragged around and tortured by memories and failures and was able to overpower Exodus because those memories and failures stopped effecting him. Something that was only possibly because of an unexpected side effect of the brain surgery.
Rachel meanwhile struggled against an Exodus who stated he was stronger then he'd ever been. That includes any previous encounter with Xavier. All it takes is a scan of how Exodus' powers work and that entire argument falls on its ass.
Then theres Jean, who's only feats against Rachel are Rachel being effected by Jean's uncontrollable, and situational outburst of power and Nova's statement that she's "not her mother yet". Except Rachel's being effected in Ressurection was more about Rachel's sensitivity then a active Jean feat since she was actually investigating a psi phenomenon and was able to get the "better off dead" message that Jean's subconscious was sending out. And even then Rachel was benched by the team, not KOd.
It's actually Jean who admits that Rachel could hurt her if she tried that makes all of that unimportant unless you can prove that Jean can replicate her Phoenix Ressurection feats consciously. Which no one can.
So going into this Jean is "vaguely" stronger then base Rachel, with a lack of feats against high tier opponents and her best feats being things shes done unconsciously or with amps. Having to disprove the doubt alone on that would hurt a Jean debater even before getting around the fact that unlike Jean Rachel has ALOT of feats against non jobber psychics with actual feats.
Also there is no scan of Rachel downloading Xavier's TP skill. There is one of her taking the skill to fly a space shuttle from him so she could put it in everyone else's head while they slept.
Your also mixing me joking with @Elpendejo with my actual assessment of Emma in our conversation. The point is that while peoples judgement and preconceptions are a major hindrance for someone like Emma, if your argument is "Xavier beat Exodus and Rachel struggled with him" then im showing Exodus stating that hes stronger then hes ever been, Exodus powers being explained as getting stronger based on his faith, Exodus no selling a point blank shot from Xavier an mocking him for how ineffective it is, and then Xavier himself saying how a 16 year old Rachel could put out Psi Bolts on his level. And that's before even getting into Xaviers defenses and performances where we have to question how he can actually last in a battle given how much he struggles against other psychics
A CaV is about more then a straight up feat comparison. You can say she lost a fight in canon, but if I can convincingly explain the loss or make the current situation different, then it's down to you to try to make it count again. Call it arrogance, but I'm one of the more knowledgeable X-men fans overall on the site, and one of the better debaters for psychic battles....I feel confident that I can make a convincing case against characters I've spent 3 years arguing about already.
Aside from that I've already done a deep in depth analysis on who I thought were the best 3 in the tournament here and I've listed several possible perks or combinations of perks I could select with my personal choice for this tourny. Which is more then fair given that I joined second, with a weaker character and would have had 5 to 6 people (with Jean, Xavier and Nova all available), choosing their characters and perks after I posted mine. Why would I, or anyone for that matter rush to chose their perks before everyone else had even registered? That would give up the advantage against people with stronger characters and make me vulnerable to weaker characters who just happened to come in late and pick a nice anti- perk before we even know their included.
@corapvp: Lol no, Jean and Xavier are just super highballed around here. And there isnt a single argument for them to be that way that isnt riddled with holes and heavily ignoring context and continuity.
Jean especially, (Nest forgive me) is highly dependent on scaling which can be disproven. While Xavier has been raised up to be equal to this hyped up version of her because so many people are on the fence about her beating him, meanwhile he has on panel shows of struggling with pretty much all the high tiers to get his wins
Remember this is a CaV format. Whether a character can beat another in canon is only as important as your argument is good.
Emma is the best example of this because shes got feats and diversity to beat Jean and Xavier in this format, but could also easily be taken by a mid tier team or Sinister level and below depending on how well the person is arguing her strengths and weaknesses.
Rachel with Bloodlust, Mentor, all powers, or prep negates pretty much any low showing you could put against her in a debate since pretty much every low showing shes had since her characters inception is distraction or surprise based.