kilowog52

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kilowog52

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So it looks like I'm late to the party.

Anyway, it still seems hopeful that the pre-Flashpoint DCU will return. However, such titles as Red Hood and the Outlaws and Batgirl and the Birds of Prey still seem rather grounded in the New 52. Hopefully just in name only.

I'm sure more titles featuring a wider variety of characters and teams are around the corner.

As for the Earth 2 rumors, they'd certainly better be wrong. There was absolutely nothing wrong with pre-Flashpoint JSA/

Hopefully we'll finally get the Red Robin and the Outsiders series that was teased in the first volume of Batman Incorporated.

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kilowog52

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Bedard?!! Man, Pak's Teen Titans run was short! But I do usually like Bedard's stories.

Also noticed that Justice League #51 costs an extra dollar. Ugh!

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kilowog52

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At first I didn't notice the other covers there and was wondering how everyone else was talking about all of them.

@captainmarvel4ever:What of the rumors that Rebirth will reverse the New 52 reboot? If that is the case, would honoring the #1 issues still be pointless? I mean if #52 were the final issue of each series.

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kilowog52

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Whatever happened to all web addresses beginning with "www."?

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kilowog52

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Why were the picks not divided into G-Man's picks and Inferiorego's picks like usual?

And last I heard, Wasp was missing after the end of AXIS. Did I miss something?

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kilowog52

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I don't understand how we got from the end of Grayson #14 to the Robin War crossover, including Grayson #15. The only theory I can come up with is that #16 will pick up where #14 left off and the story will build its way up to the events of Robin War and then jump to after it.

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kilowog52

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@jonny_anonymous: I tried to quote your post, but couldn't figure out how to quote different parts of it separately, so I'll just tell you. Your point about crossovers makes perfect sense! I had never fully realized that about the crossovers, for some reason, but what you said about them is the truth.

Also, I realize this is nitpicking, but I would like to point out that Charles Soule was not at DC when the New 52 started. (He got Red Lanterns after Fialkov left before writing any issues. Fialkov was initially hired to write GL Corps and Red Lanterns starting with issues #21 of both respective series. Soule ended up taking over RL after that whole debacle and went from there to write a couple other books such as Superman / Wonder Woman.) Also Tom King and Steve Orlando have both only started working at DC really recently. Like super really recently.

Anyway, though I don't think I'd ever read anything by Kyle Higgins nor Steve Orlando, I'd also like to say in my opinion, names such as Charles Soule, Scott Snyder, and Tom King do not belong on the list of the writers of the best runs, arcs, or other such things. Though I certainly agree about Lemire. His Green Arrow and Justice League Dark were superb. Though like Snyder's Batman and Pak's Action and Supes / Bats, Lemire's Animal Man was not nearly all it was hyped up to be.

Names I would include on this list that you haven't include, of course, Geoff Johns, as well as James Tynion IV, Jeff Parker, J.M. DeMatteis, Keith Giffen, Robert Venditti, and Van Jensen. And I'm sure there are many others whom I am currently forgetting.

Also, I'm not sure what keeping Lobdell away has to do with keeping comics modern. I admit, I'm still not sure who this Rob Liefeld character is. But the way I understand it, Scott Lobdell agreed to write Teen Titans and only then was he told that their entire history has to have been thrown out the window. His run was very good given what he was working with. Now a lot of what people say they don't like about his run, other than the ruination of classic characters, which came from above his head, I find very similar to what Hickman did on Avengers. Yet Hickman is called a genius for his Avengers and Lobdell gets the full hate of the internet thrown at him. At least Lobdell's TT was exciting! I found Hickman's Avengers for the most part, yawn-worthy.

And you certainly can't have a list of universally hated New 52 writers without mentioning Ann Nocenti! That is like the one point on which I agree with the masses. Haters hate runs by Meredith Finch, Robert Venditti and Van Jensen, and Andrew Kreisberg and Ben Sokolowski for reasons I feel they should realize are unjustified.

Also I wanted to ask if you, @jonny_anonymous or anyone else contest my earlier point about principle.

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kilowog52

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@br_havoc said:

They will finish what Convergence started and this is going to lead to the rebirth of the original multiverse with the new 52 being earth 52.

Now I certainly like that idea. It is both very good, and very practical.

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kilowog52

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Are people who want pre-N52 really that naive that they think it will effect the quality of the book in anyway?

At least in my case, the answer is "No!" It's never been about the quality of the books. Quality before the reboot and after the reboot both waxed and waned. And it wouldn't have been too different without the reboot. And it will continue to be about the same whether New 52 continuity continues after this, previous continuity is restored, or another reboot occurs.

It has always been about principle. With the onset of the New 52, numerous ongoing plotlines were abandoned to make way for this catastrophic nightmare. Even the titles that didn't have many ongoing plotlines would have continued to be great under a skilled writer. However DC discarding all their ongoing plotlines to usher in a new continuity has always been on poor principles.

The Flash Family book spinning out of Flash: Rebirth never materialized thanks to the New 52.

The Deathstroke book had been promised before the inception of the idea of the New 52. It was supposed to spin out of the Titans Villains for Hire series.

The story of Black Adam, Isis, and Osiris had been told through arcs in several series ever since 52 and continued to be ripe for plucking, but the New 52 happened.

JLI was supposed to spin out of JL: Generation Lost. The assembled team of Booster Gold, Fire, Ice, Captain Atom, Jaime Reyes, Rocket Red Gavril Ivonovich, Batman, Wonder Woman, and Power Girl were supposed to hunt down Maxwell Lord. This series would have been awesome. Instead we got subpar mediocrity because the setup had been discarded.

Think of all the series that were supposed to spin out of Brightest Day. Firestorm. Aquaman. Hawkman. Swamp Thing. Yes. All these characters still got series at the beginning of the New 52. But once again, the setup had been discarded. Without that Firestorm and Hawkman floundered. Aquaman and Swamp Thing were smashing successes. However, I'm gonna talk about Aquaman here and I think it's safe to assume Swamp Thing was not in a dissimilar boat. Geoff Johns had given at least one interview about what he was going to do with Aquaman. And what materialized out of the New 52 was a very different story. Yes, a good story. But does it not irk you that the original story will now most likely never be told? It sure does me.

Though the REBELS series had been cancelled a couple years earlier, that awesome series had set up a lot of great stuff that could happen in future series. And I'm sure that's not the only similar occurrence that was out there.

Even the series that did have fitting endings such as Action Comics and JSA were ripe for the picking.

And nothing ever came of the Red Robin and the Outsiders tease from Batman Incorporated.

Like I said, the arrival of the New 52 inevitably led to the abandonment of all previous plotlines, which was just awful in principle. Therefore I, and others like myself, hold out hope that one day pre-Flashpoint continuity will be restored so that these plotlines can be picked back up.

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kilowog52

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I certainly hope this is not another false hope for the return of pre-Flashpoint continuity. But this time, it really seems likely. First, they acknowledged all prior continuity in that issue of Justice League starring Metron. He said that reality couldn't survive another major alteration. Yet he said that what reality is in the current DCU hadn't settled yet. Hopefully Rebirth will be an event series where a group helps reality settle, and when the dust settles, pre-Flashpoint continuity will have been restored. Maybe there will be a minor retcon here or there, but that really doesn't matter. The New 52 era stories will have to be sifted through and details changed in order to fit in the continuity. Some of them will have to be thrown out completely. Some are almost ready to be included. Others will have occurred rather differently but will still have been salvageable. But what really suggest that the 2011 New 52 reboot is being reversed are such plotlines as the supposed pre-Flashpoint Superman showing up on New 52 Earth. And Hal Jordan Parallax from the '90's. Then there's Titans Hunt reestablishing the real Teen Titans. It just seems that if DC were planning to stick with the New 52 at this point, they wouldn't be bringing in elements from previous continuity. The New 52 accomplished its goal of bringing in the new fans. Now hopefully they're as hooked as the rest of us. And now DC has a chance to maintain the bulk of that fanbase, while potentially regaining those fans who just couldn't stomach the atrocities of the reboot. As several previous posters have mentioned, the solicits just came out for #51 of most of the remaining original New 52 titles. (Justice League is a month behind.) It is not too difficult to speculate that New 52 continuity will wrap up with Justice League #52, which may be released on June 1st, since that is a Wednesday. All the other titles having had wrapped up in May. Maybe Rebirth will be a short weekly series occurring in May. After that, our precious continuity could be back! Remember the final issue of Flashpoint and Justice League #1 were the only two comics DC put out on August 31st, 2011. Flash and Pandora should be involved, since this whole mess was their fault. And I'm betting Booster Gold has a key role, given the events of Convergence. Anyway, it seems the omens bode well. I'm excited! Don't let me down, DC!