@kayc said:
@undre said: @kayc:
@kayc:
No he questioned if that was his life force. He was asking nagato he was using. He doesn't even know what's happening
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It doesn't' matter the question. Lifeforce hasn't been used by Naruto in any other context besides this one. Plus Konoha (and Naruto) already knows all the path abilities of Pain. Nice try tho.
Amado stated it takes in 'all life', not just chakra. Chakra is energy produced from their life force (soul).
Sucks the chakra out of all life my guy stop trying to take things outta context
My bad on the Amado, it was Isshiki. Amado would also be wrong (based on your argument) because he didn't include - genetics and natural energy. Amado won't be as reliable a source as Isshiki who has directly experienced the process.
Isshiki - It shall contain "everything".
A crystallization of life (Logically, souls are a part of the life of every living thing)
That's another justu gedo mazu uses. The God tree extracts only chakra and genetics which is stated multiple times.
The Gedo Mazo is the Shinju without its chakra and rinnegan, broski. It needed Nagato's rinnegan and chakra to use the "soul-devouring dragons".
it's already explained it's cuz their dead. Souls are considered and not a living thing. God tree targets living things but go ahead and keep coping with your head cannon.
Both Edo bodies and living bodies produce chakra. You argue the Shinju only targets and absorbs chakra, right? Why then did the Shinju reject the chakra those edo tensei bodies produce? It could have wrapped them up like it did the living humans to collect their chakra.
The statement "the dead" is not about souls, broski. It's about their bodies not being alive. It's a jutsu that reanimates a corpse. The Shinju didn't go after their souls because it was trapped in a"dead" body manipulated by a sealing jutsu.
What you need to understand is that those who wield the power of the rinnegan preside over life and death through the "outer path" - stated by Konan, and reinforced in the Databook. Don't ever think souls are special. Edo Tensei breaks the normal rules of life and death.
The Shinju is the original wielder of the rinnegan. Nothing goes above the Shinju in terms of rinnegan.
He can manipulation them not absorb anyway nothing compared to yhwachs level of soul absorption
And Yhwach doesn't have the level of energy absorption feats of the Shinju - thousands (possibly billions, scaling from our real-life planet) of years of a planet's life genetics. In addition to chakra, lifeforce (soul), water and natural energy.
@kayc: Nahh theirs no comparison Reio's palace is a sealed dimension that you can enter even with teleportation. Also could bypass the cage of life which absorbs reishi and reiastu becasue it's conceptual takes power. Even if their in the same dimension reio's palace is still millions of km while a planet is 10,000 or more km.
None this is just a lie never is it said they took chakra from the entire earths surface. Kaguya could get chakra from another dimension through her root time space. It's not something she can normally nor does this have anything to do with madara. The suns light reaches the moon and earth toneri is not taking energy millions of km like what are u talking about lmao. Momoshiki did not chakra from a dimension. It's stated he took chakra from the planet they were on and that sasuke saw the stream coming from the planet.
Word spirit is not a conceptual. First your word spirit is cutt and absorbed. That allows you to be sealed in a gourd if you say anything after the fact. This is nothing like what ichibei did. He created seal that made a abstract barrier around reio's main palace.
And ichibei's name power governs everything on a metaphysical level not just putting a curse on some allowing them to be sealed in an object.
No one in naruto can pull of the absorption feats as yhwach not only are they conceptual but they have more layering to them. Yhwach created seal barrier that can stop gremmy"s reality warping. Bypassed the muken barrier which nullifies power. Yhwach and aizen's reiastu literally sealed the dimension of hell a whole universe away. Even the espada and ichigo have broken dimensioal sealing. Quilges jail also has layered space-time sealing. Ichigo who could break space could not break that. Quilges jail also sealed the garganta
Millions of kilometres - Sorry, I don't buy that.
And the root dimension is still another dimension. Toneri's feat wasn't stated to be the sun's light. As for the Momoshiki feat, I'll check up that translation.
The 'word spirit' is a concept dude - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kotodama
Since those abilities don't particularly exist in Naruto, let's come to my playing field.
Can Yhwach absorb human, animal, plant, and alien genetic data, physical bodies and life force/souls like the Shinju? Can Yhwach absorb nature's energy?
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@kayc:literally all quincy can absorb energy and matter to a much greater degree then anyone in naruto. They have absolute dominance over it. Even soul reapers who can manipulate matter and energy can't use reishi they have control off.
And yhwach can easily take power from qunicy. Hollows can also absorb and eat souls. Like when yammy with a breath ate hundreds of souls. Yet would still get absorbed by sklavri.
Madara has no resist to layered soul absorption even kurama was going to get soul ripped by nagato regardless of the seal on naruto
Kurama also had his soul split by minato and ripped again by the gedo mazu. Clearly their is no soul ripped resistance. So it should be a brezze for yhwach or any qunicy to strip the juubi power. Especially if their actively using their chakra cloak which externalizes their chakra.
Also the ten tails seal is not the same as minatos. Minato has special seals like the reaper of death which can seal hashirama and the nine tails
They also work different then other seals
First of all, the quincy do not absorb physical matter, neither do they absorb all types of energy. They do not absorb internal spiritual energy from other characters (reiryoku).
They do uryu absorbed ichigos overflowing spiritual power in the first arc
Exactly. 'Overflowing' - External energy (what is released in the surroundings in the form of reaitsu). Show me where Quincy directly took someone's internal reiryoku.
They absorb spiritual energy in the atmosphere and surroundings (reishi) and reishi-matter (which is different from physical matter). The Bleach verse has seperated reiryoku (internal spiritual energy), reishi (external spiritual energy), and kishi (physical/natural matter energy).
Iirc, Quincy do not absorb souls too.
You definitely have not read bleach Reishi is soul matter/the soul itself the soul is what contains your reiastu/spiritual energy. Spiritual enengy also has a physical force/ energy to it that why it can destroy physical things aswell
By absorbing reishi you are also taking spirit energy by extension. Also it's verbatim stated the qunicy medallion takes the soul. Souls in naruto contain the chakra of individual. If a qunicy used their medallion and madara was using the ten tails power external they could rip the juubi's soul and by extension it's chakra. Qunicy medallion can also steal power by manipulation of space and shadows madara has never dealt with something like that
Well in that case.
In Naruto we have three -
1. Soul aka Life-force absorption.
2. Chakra absorption.
3. Ninjutsu absorption.
The rinnegan and gedo statue combined, can do all three.
So really, there's nothing they do that trumps Rinnegan and Gedo's (Juubi) absorption.
Then we have a fourth.
4. Natural energy absorption.
Senjutsu of the six paths (sage body) does that as well. By logic, I can say since they have no equivalence to Nature energy absorption, then Juubi Madara is the superior absorber.
In fact, the shinju can absorb genetic material and has absorbed physical bodies too, and converted them to zetsu fissions. It's not looking to good for the Quincies.
The rinnegan allows the user to absorb internal spiritual and physical energy (chakra) directly from other characters. It can also absorb ninjutsu (external spiritual and physical energy) matter. The rinnegan can also absorb souls in the form of life force. The Sage body possessed by the Juubi and its Jinchuriki by extension absorbs natural energy from the atmosphere and surroundings. All these (soul, stamina/chakra (internal energy), ninjutsu (external energy) and natural energy) absorption powers are available to Madara/Hagoromo as a Sage (Juubi Jinchuriki) and Rinnegan user. That's layers of absorption greater than the Quincies.
The rinnegan does not absorb souls. It rips them out and stores them. Or you can seal them inside yourself. These are all basic low tier hax im bleach done by hollows and soul reapers. They don't have greater absorbing especially at a soul level then qunciy. Normals hollows can absorb,seal and destroy souls. Menos Grande suck up a bunch of hollows with a breath. Qunicy can absorb vasto lorde level hollows which contain up to billions of souls according to cfyow. Yhwach is absorption is superior to any quincy even in base form. He can even takw conceptual powers not based on Reiastu. Once he became reio je now has control over all matter and energy in all worlds.
The rinnegan and gedo absorbs souls dude. Soul is lifeforce in the NV. The shinju absorbs the life force of a planet's inhabitants and converts those souls into chakra. Do you know the tentails chakra is created from trillions of souls. Not just humans, but animals as well?
And to be fair, what you are arguing is of no use. What matters is that there is an extradition of the soul from the victim of which the victim is no longer in control of their soul.
And in terms of numbers, Nagato (weaker than Madara) contained all the souls of the victims in his Konoha massacre. Nagato also pulled and contained the souls of numerous ninja using the gedo statue.
Funny you made that post about KCM Naruto. You posted it to make sure I don't use it as a counter argument. Nice try. KCM Naruto resisted it for a few seconds (and would have taken longer) against a stronger character who can pull out a soul in less than a second. There's no conclusive evidence to believe Nagato would have won. That post is undoubted reason that tailed beast power can resist soul absorption to a good extent.
So kcm naruto has less resistance to soul rip then a normal human in bleach nice. Nagato was winning and would have eventually neg his soul even the reaper of death soul ripped 100% kurama and hashirama.
Except that Nagato has feats of pulling and containing multiple souls at once. KCM resistance is on a higher level. And that pales in comparison to stronger forms of Naruto, or even Juubi Jinchurikis.
Now you have a character like Madara that can even control his soul on panel when he beat the cancellation of edo tensei. Plus having the rinnegan and tailed beast that can actively grab his soul. Nice try.
He cant control he release Kabuto's control over the justu using his own justu. If he had control over his soul he would not be sitting in the after life waiting on obito to revive him not even the otsusuki have control over their they have to use karma to stay on earth while bleach characters can move freely.
That's basically the rules of both verses.
In the past, souls were contained in the Shinju. After Hagoromo, souls moved to the Pure lands. Whether it's Hagoromo that set the rule is yet to be known. Because Hagoromo himself can bypass the rule and summon anyone's soul from the Pure Lands casually. Something that requires sacrifice for edo tensei users.
So I can't give a straight answer. If Bleach souls were in Naruto, no one can say they would bypass the rules of the verse.
You made mention of Kyuubi failing against Fourth Hokage's death reaper seal. You also forget those chakra binding chains from Kushina restrict the victim's chakra control.
Six Paths abilities trump every relative ability in the Narutoverse. The Six Paths coffin seal's binding power will be scaled greater than other seals.
You don't know this. Your just making assumptions not every seal is the same they can have different function. Kurama seal was made so he could not escape when naruto needs to use kuramas power he has to remove the seal. So if naruto is in full bijuu kurama is getting soul ripped so is his chakra.The juubi seal was made so you put the ten tails inside you if it had the same seal as naruto madara would not ne able to use its chakra unless he removed the seal
This is common sense and application of powerscaling. Do you think Uzumaki would perform better seals than a six paths calibre seal stemming from their ancestor, Hagoromo?
There are two seals - one to contain the Juubi's body which is the six paths coffin seal and one to contain the Juubi's chakra in the gedo mazo which is the 'rinnegan's chakra chains'. And both stem from the same source- The rinnegan.
The rinnegan's chakra chains bypassed and pulled out the tailed beast sealed in their respective Jinchuriki, and Naruto included. Obito pulled out Kurama from Black Zetsu, that was sealed by Fourth Hokage.
The Akatsuki were originally trying to get their hands on Naruto. Made no mention of the Fourth Hokage's seal being above their pay grade. Yet it takes them 3 days per jinchuriki, compared to Madara who did all of them in minutes.
Fair for Ichibei. Who made that question-and-answer section? And show me the full interview? Any person can type anything and claim it's the author. However, it's not a feat that's helping Yhwach here.
It’s not an interview. It‘s Tite Kubo’s KlubOutside, where paid subscribers ask him questions and he decides whether to answer.
The link:
https://www.fanverse.org/threads/klub-outside-kubo-answers-translations.1239498/
Now you see the problem here. Space-time summoning doesn't work against a weaker seal like Fourth Hokage's as per Madara trying to summon the nine tails. So who's to tell that Yhwach can bypass a greater seal when that weaker seal nullifies space-time summoning?
Because the Almighty nullified a conceptual ability that works across space-time and even in mental spaces like Zangetsu‘s dimension.
I’m telling you dude, Yhwach literally has all the proof you would need🤣
I like how you're conveniently ignoring Obito stating he chose the time to bypass the Fourth Hokage's seal because it was already weakened. That's not anti-feat for the seal. The seal was collapsing, and Minato didn't build it back before Obito's attack.
Dude I’m not saying the seal is weak🤣I’m saying Yhwach has broken stronger seals and can destroy it because he did it on panel:
Ichibei has sealed away people stronger than Kurama
It has been shown many times in the Naruto verse that the previous chakra connections matter when pulling tailed beasts.
Except that time.
Now, can you prove that Yhwach has a better pull on the Juubi's chakra than the Gedo statue or the Rinnegan without any prior connection like Naruto and the alliance? You can't. It's not like the Juubi Jins won't be resisting.
As in specially the Juubi? I mean he’s not a Naruto character.
I can prove he does have better power absorption though, here’s a video:
Where he literally strips the life force away from Quincy millions of miles away, distributes it and brings his comrades back to life, much like Rinne Tensei from Nagato (and Obito)
I mean is there a more direct comparison?
The guy can give power to Hollows, to Shinigami, to Humans, to animals and even to robots and can take his power away at will dude.
He has stolen conceptual abilities, Bankai, hollow powers, he has stolen and absorbed biological beings and souls on panel, he has broken seals on panel that work within inner worlds (like the Bijuu seals)
Idk what else dude. I’d have to show you a panel of Yhwach fighting the Juubi to convince you
Yhwach has not absorbed across dimensions. The soul king palace, though is a fair distance from soul society, is still within the same dimension. However, pulling energy from a large distance is not a new feat to Naruto characters of Juubi calibre. I can show you equivalence in scale, even more.
Kurama (Naruto) and the Juubi has absorbed natural energy of the entire planet's surface. Kaguya absorbed chakra from a different dimension dude. Toneri was absorbing natural energy from the sun, from the moon's distance. In the novel, Momoshiki absorbed chakra from his parallel dimension. All these guys are scalable to Juubi Madara.
Conceptual sealing is not new in Narutoverse, as the Treasured tools of Hagoromo (Kokinjo, Shichiseiken, Benihisago and Kohaku no johei) seals via manipilating 'word spirit' which is just a concept in Japan. Yet, the Gedo Mazo bypassed and pulled chakra from people stuck in the seal (Ginkaku/Kinkaku)
Bro, Yhwach absorption feat is not special to the Narutoverse.
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@kayc:literally all quincy can absorb energy and matter to a much greater degree then anyone in naruto. They have absolute dominance over it. Even soul reapers who can manipulate matter and energy can't use reishi they have control off.
And yhwach can easily take power from qunicy. Hollows can also absorb and eat souls. Like when yammy with a breath ate hundreds of souls. Yet would still get absorbed by sklavri.
Madara has no resist to layered soul absorption even kurama was going to get soul ripped by nagato regardless of the seal on naruto
Kurama also had his soul split by minato and ripped again by the gedo mazu. Clearly their is no soul ripped resistance. So it should be a brezze for yhwach or any qunicy to strip the juubi power. Especially if their actively using their chakra cloak which externalizes their chakra.
Also the ten tails seal is not the same as minatos. Minato has special seals like the reaper of death which can seal hashirama and the nine tails
They also work different then other seals
First of all, the quincy do not absorb physical matter, neither do they absorb all types of energy. They do not absorb internal spiritual energy from other characters (reiryoku).
They absorb spiritual energy in the atmosphere and surroundings (reishi) and reishi-matter (which is different from physical matter). The Bleach verse has seperated reiryoku (internal spiritual energy), reishi (external spiritual energy), and kishi (physical/natural matter energy).
Iirc, Quincy do not absorb souls too.
The rinnegan allows the user to absorb internal spiritual and physical energy (chakra) directly from other characters. It can also absorb ninjutsu (external spiritual and physical energy) matter. The rinnegan can also absorb souls in the form of life force. The Sage body possessed by the Juubi and its Jinchuriki by extension absorbs natural energy from the atmosphere and surroundings. All these (soul, stamina/chakra (internal energy), ninjutsu (external energy) and natural energy) absorption powers are available to Madara/Hagoromo as a Sage (Juubi Jinchuriki) and Rinnegan user. That's layers of absorption greater than the Quincies.
Funny you made that post about KCM Naruto. You posted it to make sure I don't use it as a counter argument. Nice try. KCM Naruto resisted it for a few seconds (and would have taken longer) against a stronger character who can pull out a soul in less than a second. There's no conclusive evidence to believe Nagato would have won. That post is undoubted reason that tailed beast power can resist soul absorption to a good extent.
Now you have a character like Madara that can even control his soul on panel when he beat the cancellation of edo tensei. Plus having the rinnegan and tailed beast that can actively grab his soul. Nice try.
You made mention of Kyuubi failing against Fourth Hokage's death reaper seal. You also forget those chakra binding chains from Kushina restrict the victim's chakra control.
Six Paths abilities trump every relative ability in the Narutoverse. The Six Paths coffin seal's binding power will be scaled greater than other seals.
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