you are wasting your time on those points friend - those points do not affect the topic at all
even if you concede on all of them, he still has no choice but to concede that spartacus is superhuman, as his argument logically fails at fundamental level
he only gives assumptions on spartacus why he (may) believe spartacus is superhuman, and says assumptions hold more credit than on screen proof. When we go by feats, spartacus is both superhuman and way stronger than gregor will ever be - this is the most important highlight in the thread, and arguing on 50 things that ultimately dont make a difference takes focus away from that
The reason I send it in a PM is because the 3000 words take focus away from the main issue - the fundamental of your argument is logically false
"He has N number of human showings" is not logical negative of "he has these superhuman showings" - your entire argument falls apart in one single sentence
I will respond to the other "asinine" points after we confirm it loud and clear that main argument in the OP based on logical fallacy - something you have not been able to address so far, this spam of irrelevant points is distraction from it
@xlr87t3: It always happens with Spartacus threads. People always refuse to acknowledge he is not superhuman, I knew it was coming. I don't mind the arguing because it keeps the thread on the first page even if the arguments themselves are headdesk-worthy sometimes.
"OP gives them so many assumptions, but why dont people still ignore canon feats? why dont they believe all super strength feats are PIS, what was shown on screen isnt what happened, and all speed feats are just cool effects like I say?? Such headdesk approach to take the word of show over my OP"...
I am addressing the significant points of your argument here, instead of writing 3000 words per comment - which is... not efficient.
Just so you dont feel like I ignored your effort I have also posted word by word answer to your points in the PM - take a loot if you need. There is no point in discussing those, when this is where the argument keeps coming down to.
If I bother looking, I'm 100% sure I can find you many more examples of Spartacus's completely human strength which cannot be argued against.
You have brought up so many of them already. again. Question: Does spartacus have superhuman strength? Yes.
"He has N number of human showings" does not oppose "he has these superhuman showings"
Why do you ignore this fundamental principle and just add more examples?
I know that it was told after Barca's story, however that line did not refer to Barca alone. Pay attention to the wording - "In the world of the gladiator, a man's fame and glory constructs its own truth."
This line refers to the world of a gladiator as a whole. In other words, many things told about gladiators - mostly the champions - are overblown. Now, I'm not saying that Crixus didn't defeat the "Sons of the Jackal" (they obviously weren't the sons of a real jackal, or a real monster as the motion comic depicted him), but him sending them flying into the air is just part of how the show depicted the retelling of the story and nothing indicates that it really happened. As I said, in the very same episode there was a story told about Theokoles - and in the story he is depicted as being 10 feet tall and the ground was trembling with every step that he took. In reality, when the real Theokoles was seen on-screen, he was not 10 feet tall (not even 7) and the ground did not tremble when he walked. As I said, these stories were semi-legends and the depiction of them doesn't depict reality. I mean, in the story with Crixus and the Sons of the Jackal they actually had fur and claws and they roared like a lion.
Pay attention to the full wording, not just the part that you want to read -
"Mago was a warrior fierce renown... He was also Barca's father, as the story tells. Is it true? In the world of the gladiator, a man's fame and glory constructs its own truth."
it was questioning Mago being barca's father, and even that was confirmed true just like crixus's fight with the jackals was confirmed true...
I get having reservation, but assuming something is false because the language leaves it ambigious isnt going to work - specially when its confirmed to have happened
Not to mention the unrealistic amounts of blood. That story had too many imaginary elements in it to be considered as true to reality.
good that you even try this angle, that way we can confirm there is no way spartacus can be argued not superhuman
"unrealistic blood" means "definitely happened" in a show like spartacus if anything
No, I don't. I don't see a foot digging into a face. I see a bloody mess. Maybe his heel broke the man's teeth and went a little into the oral cavity. Totally possible, but nothing outlandish. Instead of making sarcastic comments, why don't you show me the foot digging into the face?
shown crixus smashing a man's face in - "its too messy, so I dont see it", no one can show you what you dont want to see...
Not really, no. The only character in the entire show that had strength to maybe compare with Gregor is Theokoles who ragdolled both Spartacus AND Crixus at the same time.
spartacus strength feats are better than gregor (feats, not by assumptions), so this is proven false
As I said, I don't think anyone is stupid enough to punch a stone wall that hard, since the result would be the same thing that happened to Spartacus - they would just wreck their own fingers.
but they strike the bricks laid out in a specific way as you posted, because they know when its laid out like that, the snap effect will break it
human strength is not enough to smash walls in seconds like that
I was also going to address the "spartacus wrecked his own fist" part - skin on the knuckles is weak, it breaks from hitting even people, let alon solid stone - thats why fighters put protective roll on it when practicisng (movie with a similar situation is in IP man, where his wife treat his hand after his fight) - some shows just dont address it, others do
sure, however, Spartacus punched stone. Romans built their homes with stone, brick and plaster. Concrete was used for other things. Even concrete walls in Rome were covered with stone or plaster facing, so if that wall was concrete, which it wasn't - all Spartacus really did was break the facing and reveal the concrete underneath it. It's a very nice feat, which I mentioned in the OP in Spartacus's praise,
stone wall is still stronger than a man's head, and spartacus doesnt go for the weakest part
but it's not superhuman and there's no need to overblow it.
It is both superhuman, as well as more impressive than anything gregor did - neither of this is overblowing, just as it is
What you have behind your eyes is the brain. The temples are at the sides of your skull. Even fracturing a skull at the temples with sheer pressure is beyond human capabilities, popping a skull is so far into the superhuman realm that you trying to downplay it would probably personally insult me if I were a doctor.
And Oberyn's skull exploded upwards:
Even the thickest parts of his skull was exploded into oblivion, so that "thinnest part of the skull" argument is totally invalid.
it would personally insult you anyway, since "strength required to make skull explode" doesnt exist - not "superhuman", non existent
skulls arent built to "explode", because of pressure, superhuman or not, the whole feat is complete PIS - its like saying I punch the glass so hard it melted so to speak
yet no one explaining spartacus even brought that up, while you're going "the scene has too much blood - unrealistic, doent count"
Oberyn wasn't running, he was turning in place while kneeling. You can see in the GIF (the normal speed one) that Gregor even held him in place for a split second so any momentum he would have had was gone the instant Gregor grabbed him. It was a pure throw.
Anyway, it is clearly seen in that slowed GIF you posted that Oberyn was thrown from the dead center of that painting on the ground and landed outside of it. That circular paining was easily 8 meters across (diameter) if not more, but even if it was just 5 meters - that would still make the distance Oberyn was thrown 2.5 meters - which are roughly 8'4" - more than double the distance that this guy was thrown.
Alright, let's see. Let's use the man's body as a comparison. Let's assume he is 5'10" - the average height of the American grown man: Seeing as his body is bent, it should be somewhat less than 5'1", close to 5', but what the heck. Now let's see the distance he was thrown: It should also be less that that, because we should measure by his right leg and not the left one which was bent - but again, what the heck. Now, let's see those (less than) 5'10" compared with the distance he was thrown: You can see that the rough estimate of 4 feet was pretty spot-on. Really, I literally took a measuring tape, put it against my computer screen and did the calcs. You're more than welcome to do the same and see for yourself. And I will remind you that I was being generous with saying the upper line was 5'10" and with saying that the lower line is the distance he was thrown.
he was circling around gregor - I have explained where he was before he starts circling, and when gregor throws him in the earlier post, I can do it again, but it is clearly seen in gif - so of course he had momentum
the calculations you do are mid air, gifs side by side show the distance is similar
except -
1. spartacus guy isnt already going in the direction
2. spartacus does it with a thrown sword, not actually lifting him
Do tell me the difference.
sure
you throw sword like this
https://youtu.be/Sk47qO8rW4Y?t=238
https://youtu.be/lfOnQD8Qif4?t=132
(just showing action, aragorn is stronger than both sides)
overhead throw, energy used in rotation
while spear like this
https://youtu.be/Yr4K28Kl8hg?t=17
straight, zero energy in rotation, complete power focused in one direction - sword grip is different, it cannot be thrown this way unless you can twist your 180 degree somehow - that is why I specified "thrown sword", or similar weapons, like a club, or axe
Someone who asks for help to efficiently jump 10 feet forward can't jump 20 feet upward.
I added the keyword, so you see why you were wrong. One thing is definite, he can jump a story high, because he did.
You know what, alright, forget what I said earlier. Let's look at the distance he jumped to get to those men:
How far was that? Let's say 10 feet?
An NFL player jumped over 12 feet from a standing position, without sprinting and with no leverage. A real-world athlete surpassed something Spartacus needed help to do.
I bet that this athlete could have jumped 2 stories with the power of PIS.
speculation. Not proof. You still ignore there's a difference.
Just reminding you that Gregor, with all his PIS, still doesnt have the feats to replicate spartacus's strength feats
I hope you realize how absurd that argument is. I literally took time thinking if it's worth responding to. Asking someone to hand you something isn't the same as asking someone to help you perform something physical - like lifting a heavy burden, or... jumping somewhere.
thats me, with your posts since the OP
getting a pen is also a physical task, with some energy required - asking someone to pass it means less energy is wasted than way, not that I cant get it myself. I can prove so, because I have already done it before.
If I carry a TV upstairs with my friend, and then we also carry a mattress, doesnt mean the first feat is invalid - just mean you can use it for different output as you see fit for the moment
So what you're saying is that jumping it without help would have robbed him of too much energy? Really? The man who ran hundreds of meters uphill to chase Crassus, the man who was the veteran of countless battles, the man who has been through the grueling training routine of a gladiator for months before that fight alongside Varro, would have lost too much energy by jumping 10 feet?
"lost too much energy?" no
but lost more energy than he would with the shield? definitely. using a technique he practiced, and saving energy, in no way imply the jump he actually did earlier was PIS
I mean, wow... I'm not even sure how I'm supposed to respond to that.
easier than respond to "look! he didnt jump a story high to reach a target right in front of him! so he cant jump a story high!"?
wait, that makes it look definite, lets write in correct words - Correction: "by the_red_viper's theory, spartacus shouldnt be able to jump 6 feet without help"
It's literally on the screen. It's not a theory.
I can also open "flat earth" on the screen, it's also a theory - and perfectly like yours in the way both try to say evidence is false...
you think spartacus is not strong enough to jump a story high - whats canon is he did jump a story high.
Alright, the McGregor/Mayweather example wasn't very accurate - sorry, I don't regularly follow MMA or boxing.
its ok, not a lot of people do
Anyway, the Egyptian could do the same for a certainty. He got up after taking a FAR worse injury from Oenomaus in their second fight. Am I saying that he would have beaten Spartacus for a certainty? No, in fact let me quote myself:
Yeah, that fight was far from over. Falling to the ground, and being on the receiving side in the start of a fight does not mean you're going to lose, far from it. Crixus was getting his ass handed to him by the champion of Pompeii (season 1 episode 11) for a few good minutes and was dropped to the ground numerous times before he started to retaliate and eventually won. In season 3 episode 1, Crassus was dropped to the ground by Hilarus, yet managed to get up, retaliate and win. So yeah, based on how the Egyptian got up after taking a very serious injury from Oenomaus, it's safe to say that he could have done the same against Spartacus, especially since - as we have seen - he was already starting to get up and held his weapon in a defensive position. This fight was far from over and it could have gone either way. In a football match, the team scoring the first goal has the advantage but its victory is far from certain. In a fight, the first man to fall is at a major disadvantage but can still get up and win. I don't think that for someone who managed to beat Crixus, Oenomaus and Gannicus, getting up would be too big a challenge. The only time in the entire show that I recall someone utterly and contemptuously dominating someone else is when Oenomaus humiliated Ashur in season 1 episode 13. This guy dropped Spartacus AND Varro to the ground and they eventually won too:
the difference is, the fighters you mention actually prove they are the better fighter when they get back up - you are assuming egyptian will prove it.
Which of the two is the better fighter? Their encounter shows spartacus overwhelms egyptian, and thats that...
saying "egyptian will get back up and beat him" is no different than "spartacus will own him worse if egyptian gets back up" - both speculation
go by what the show says, not what you think it should say... this entire thread would be solve right there
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