Just_Banter

Lancer - The Only One

Theme

Theme for reading (it's a long profile)

Personality

The best way to describe Lancer would be with the phrase "overly personable." If Lancer were to stay in one place for any extended length of time, he would inevitably, as if a matter of course, become the single most important pillar within that community. A hideout would become decorated with the drawings of children and keepsakes given to him by others, and his spare time would be spent assisting, teaching, and being generally overjoyed to be of help to anyone, or even just lend an ear to one who does, or does not, require it. A man of commitment and dedication, he is unwavering in his beliefs and what he will do to stand by them. It is fortunate, then, that he possesses a might that allows him to carry his rather naive beliefs forward as though they are anything but.

The feature of Lancer that stands out more than any other would be his insistence that all humans are his children and that he shall treat them as such. That is not to say that he will view them as immature or in need of guidance when they are not - it is quite the contrary, he believes in the potential of humanity more than any other and loves nothing more than allowing humans to shine in their own right without the help of a guiding hand! - but that he will love and care for them as if they were his own, from the oldest to the youngest, the kindest to the cruellest, and the strongest to the weakest, Lancer sees no distinction between them. This does not mean that Lancer will not punish those that deserve it - in life, after all, he would personally see to any and all executions within his empire and steadfastly punish his children when they broke the law - but that he will always want to give people a second chance, and that it pains him beyond anything else to punish his children for their own evil.

Beyond that, the most unusual aspect of Lancer, perhaps even more than his personality itself, is the manner in which his clothes function. It is said that all customs of his empire invariably link back to him, and within his empire, it was a custom, nay, a steadfast rule, that the rulers would never wear the same clothes twice. As a servant, this aspect of Lancer's past manifests in a rather unusual way: should the eyes of others fall off him - that is, should nobody be looking at him - there is a chance that, when he is next observed by someone, he will suddenly be wearing a completely new set of clothes, without any indication or movement to change clothes on his part. If questioned about this, Lancer either feigns ignorance or truly cannot tell what others are talking about. The sly smile he wears as if he's pulling off a light prank, however, points at one of those options being more likely than the other.

If a master wishes to have Lancer engage in the killing of humans, they will either need to trick him into viewing them as truly irredeemable or force him to do so through the use of a command seal. In either case, they must be prepared for the fallout that results, whether that be the sting of betrayal or the despondency of grief, and if a master does wish to try to push Lancer into engaging in such actions, they risk his spear being pointed at them in turn, with their master's target, instead of the master themselves, seeing the back of their reliable father protecting them from harm.

• "You are a credit to your brothers and sisters, one of the best that humanity has to offer. You are a shining example of just how far humanity can go, how much of the world is in your reach, and for that, I am endlessly proud of you, my child. Yet still, though you have lived your life with pride and now stand before me as an equal, you and I both are but wraiths of the past, temporarily haunting a time that is not ours. How I wish I could have seen how brightly you shone in life, but nevertheless, I am happy beyond words to meet you even like this. So, come, warrior! Show me just how hard you have worked to make it to this point! Don't expect me to go easy on you!"
• "Ahh, my child, your jokes are as bright as the sun! You truly inherited my sense of humour."
  "Umm, thanks? Anyway, that will be $14. 25, sir."
  "Haha! See, this is just what I mean, that deadpan humour is just like my own!"
  "... Lancer, let's just leave. Please?"
• "Believe in yourself, my child, for you possess the strength to overcome any obstacle. The fire within you burns bright, and it is my honour to fan those flames and witness you achieve greatness."
• "Oh my! This... this...! You call this a 'freeway,' you say? For roads to have come this far, I am truly touched. Come, let us borrow a vehicle and partake!"
• "To shed your own humanity to chase after immortality... my child, you have lost sight of yourself, no, you have lost sight of what makes humanity the special existence they are. Although it may pain my heart, you have long since made your choice. Fear not, my wayward son, even if nobody else shall, I at least will grieve your loss. Now, come."
• "Stand aside, Lancer!"
  "... I refuse. He has strayed far from his intended path, but even so, I want to have faith in him. No, I must do so. After all, what kind of father doesn't protect his own child? I am sorry, master, I understand your position, but even so, I will not move."
• "Hm? My child, what are you - pfft - ahem, what are you talking about? I was just wearing these? Anyway, aren't they fashionable? I quite like this modern style of clothing, and these 'joggers' are so incredibly comfortable! What? No, it's not embarrassing, come on, I look very stylish."
• "You're right, my child, I can see why it would be awkward for someone who looks younger than you to refer to you in such a way. Honestly, I thought this form would look older, but perhaps this class is when I was at my physical peak. I suppose that would be when... hmm, how unpleasant."
• "Why do you look so fearful, master? Worry not, and let all your faith rest on me for a moment. Your father can handle it."

Parameters

Class Skills

Reserve me as a Lancer candidate for the True Servants

Lancer

@naronu: @sy8000:

All of Power

Berserker's approach is marked by a primal, guttural roar.

▂▂▃▃▅▅ーーー！！

The sound carries, as though an invitation to all the city to spectate the occasion. Not great for the ears of those close by, though.

Are you sure about that?

Yes.

In other words, he's exceedingly good at pulling his sword back.

He is, for sure. The issue here is that pulling his sword back up after it falls comes after his first strike. In the fight we can see that Poseidon dodges Sasaki's first strike, which allows the blade to fall and reach the position for his surprising second strike. We also know that part of the point of the technique is that you can't guard against the first attack, which forces the opponent into a dodge and allows for a second attack from their blind spot to come up. Every indication Saber should have is that Berserker will have to somehow guard against the strike, or that he'll have to avoid it. Berserker is doing neither. He's reaching out to yoink the blade as it comes down and connects with his body. As he's moving in accordance with an ability that Saber does not know about, there should be no accurate prediction of Berserker moving like this. Immediately after he does this and Saber can see that his attack didn't work? Yeah, absolutely, Berserker's dumbass fighting style will start to be predicted. Before that? No chance.

As Saber's initial strike is one that tries to slice through Berserker, he should be momentarily surprised by the blade being halted and not making progress against Berserker's flesh, which should create the gap for Berserker to grab the blade (or accentuate the gap, at least, I don't see why Berserker can't grab the blade even without surprise on Saber's side coming into the equation). The pulling back of the blade would be an act that occurs if Saber's predictions work (which they won't) and should only occur after the culmination of the first swing, when Saber's blade is near the floor, which is somewhere the blade won't reach as Berserker will have grabbed it by then. Berserker's grip strength is quite impressive, and I've already shown his ability to keep hold of a sword pretty well in my first post. Saber I don't think has real feats in this kinda way because Berserker's fighting style is, uhh, unique and specific, so I don't believe the premature halting of a technique would allow Saber the leverage he needs to pull his blade away from Berserker before his follow-up attack comes in.

I've said that Berserker is only using a single + for strength, and you've said that Saber is using two +'s for his, so Saber can theoretically be stronger for this second struggle, but I don't think it'll shake out that way. Saber's use comes after theoretically being able to pull his blade away, get some distance, have the "huh, he must have some kind of invincibility Noble Phantasm" thought, and then decide to see if it's breakable via sufficient force. None of that should happen, as Berserker should be able to grip the blade and stop him from getting that distance in the first place. Berserker and Saber are of equal speed, after all, and Berserker's opening move should destroy Saber's prediction, while Berserker's move should go off as planned, giving him the advantage in that initial clash for his result to win out.

For Saber to avoid the follow-up attack/free his blade, he'd need to react to the unforeseen situation and activate his two strength +'s to counter it. It's highly possible, for sure, but it's only something that's happening reactively to Berserker's attack, not proactively like Berserker's is. With that, and the bad position Saber is in (two hands on his blade while Berserker has one free for the punch, and as we can see in your scan, Tsubame Gaeshi is a technique that needs the whole body to work in unison, which Berserker's grip stopping the falling blade should stifle massively), Berserker's attack, I feel, takes priority over Saber's improvised defence. Even if Saber is able to avoid the attack while simultaneously using his boosted strength to wrench himself free from Berserker's grasp and take the distance he wants to take, he'll have taken mana circuit damage from the act and still be on the backfoot, so Berserker should be in an advantageous position regardless of the result.

@naronu: @sy8000:

To Challenge:

Berserker slowly turned in the direction of the servant who addressed him and opened his mouth. A sound came out. One of the first acts his master had done was to use two command seals on him to ensure that he was unable to challenge either themselves or a civilian to a match. The fact that sound could leave his mouth meant...

Berserker grinned from ear to ear at the unexpected present and bellowed out towards them, not so much as registering what his to-be opponent had said or was doing.

"You... I challenge!!! WRESTLE!!!!!"

Saber could feel... something within him stir, a slight unsettling in the stomach as if he had just signed on to a bad deal despite him having made no motion to reply to Berserker. That, however, was not important now, as Berserker bounded towards him like a puppy.

"hahaha... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!"

A giant, menacing, near three-metre-tall puppy... and what was with that look in his eye? If nothing else could be gathered, it was clear enough that Berserker was, undeniably, a Berserker.

Berserker's approach will hold back no momentum and showcase no hesitation. In fact, he will not even physically move to defend against Saber's blade. He will aim to use his body to catch Saber off guard, and quite literally take hold of his blade after contact has been made. That is, at the point of time where Saber's prediction shatters. You see, by all rights, based on Berserker's physical characteristics, breathing, and movement, Saber's blade should be able to at least injure Berserker; however, it won't, and not for reasons relating to Berserker's skill or physical attributes. The only tell Saber could have about this inevitability is in the complete lack of respect Berserker will be paying to Saber's sword as he bounds towards him. Whether Saber can figure out that means there's something different happening, or if that's just a consequence of Berserker being a Berserker is up to him.

If Berserker catches the blade, his grip should be strong enough on its own to ensure that Saber cannot simply wrench it free (base A vs A). Immediately after this, Berserker will activate a single strength + to both cement his grip on the blade and smack Saber in the face with full force, as seen in the above scan. After that, he'll, I don't know, treat him like a bath towel for 52 pages straight.

The key element of the opening attack comes from the predictions that Saber makes. He, to my knowledge, shouldn't be able to determine Berserker's abilities from initial glances beyond his physical might and skill. Neither of these aspects is what is the most dangerous thing about Berserker's initial move, and even if Saber can see through the imminent danger based purely on trusting that Berserker acting like an insane person is cause for more alarm than usual, the hasty backstepping he'll have to make will instantly put him on the back foot, regardless.

A Dreamer Wakes: To Sleep Once More

"You don't know anything about me! You don't know what I went through down there! You, you...!"

About to attack once more through the only avenue available to him, his mouth, Orpheus' voice trailed off and his eyes widened in alarm. Even now, even from here, he could feel it. The grail was gone. His connection to this time had gone with it, but more importantly than that, so had his wish. A meagre wish, made impossibly complex through the whims of those beyond him, but meagre nonetheless. A tragic irony that when one was reunited with the one they loved, another lost the only chance they would be granted to do the same. His mana left him, his core, damaged as it was, cracked, threatening to shatter at any moment. The figure of Theseus faded from Orpheus' sight entirely, the colours of his surroundings draining away to an oppressive darkness.

Avenger, no, Orpheus, turned his face to the sky, listening to something no other could hear. "What is that melody? That's... ah, I see, this is our song, isn't it. During our first night together this is the song you..." His voice cracked as it drifted off into nothing, replaced by choking, tortured sobs. "I... have failed you again. I just want to see you again, I just want to hold you again. Why does everyone else so readily have the one thing I can't?" As Orpheus' spirit core faded, his power waned, as did the influence of his skills, both his Avenger class skills and the madness he had forced on himself through the power of his voice. With his dwindling power, the clarity of Orpheus, the true Orpheus, shone through once more, and the poet broke down, falling to his knees as he looked at the ground.

"Forgive me, Eurydice. I'm sorry. Please... please forgive me." Just like that, on the cold, unfeeling dirt, Orpheus sobbed and apologised to someone that would never hear it.

Feeling his power finally vanish completely, Orpheus gathered the last vestiges of his composure. "I beg of you, lord Hades, let me see her again before I go. I'll... I'll walk again, for however long you want. Just let me see her... please. Just... one more time..." Orpheus' pleas died on the wind, the emotions held within swallowed by the unending, silent abyss of the underworld. He knew his prayer would be unanswered, he knew he failed Eurydice a second time, and he knew there would not be a chance for a third attempt. His heart had shattered, and he was overcome by a pain so visceral, a loss so profound, that his body failing and the mana that made up his form scattering into the environment around him could be considered nothing more than a blessing. The golden waves of Orpheus' mana were absorbed into the trees around him as his figure dissolved, a loving embrace from a mother-in-law that Orpheus could never notice. Silence enveloped the surroundings once more: The Mage of a Hundred Songs, the great poet of Thrace, he who had once swayed the underworld, had returned to the Throne of Heroes, his song silenced forever.

Family

Orpheus' eyes widened slightly as he listened to Theseus' words before dropping into a vague expression. "Of course, after everything I said you still only talk about yourself." His voice shrinks to almost a murmur. "Why did I expect anything different?" He shook his head before looking back up.

"You've always been the master of self-absorption, haven't you, Theseus? Here I am, pouring out my pain and laying bare my shattered soul, and all you can do is prattle on and give me a demonstration into the depths of your arrogance. Do you see how your brothers treat your suffering from down there? This is the one you wanted to save you, no? This was the hope you clung to in this summoning, why you started struggling about when you saw him? That's right, just like that, it's not so difficult to agree with me, is it? It's like I said from the start, it's just us, nobody else in this world would so much as listen to our pain, your family is no different."

He looked about for a moment as if regaining his bearings before he remembered the existence of the man standing in front of him. "So, what will it be, you shining beacon of monstrosity? For all your talk of turning back, I haven't so much as taken a step forward and yet you still seem so eager to swing that sword. You must truly love to whet your blade with the blood of those who trusted you, hmm? Look at me, I'm in no state to put up a fight, but at least you can chalk this up as just another shadow the light of your strength will melt away." He put a finger to his chin. "I wonder if Zeus would say the same things you do?"

Memories of the Argo

The flesh stirred. The song stopped. It was hard to tell if it was because of Theseus' words or the arcs of lightning-esque mana shooting off the mass hinting at a more fundamental issue. Either way, the result was the same: The flesh shrunk, accompanied by a sound more akin to a cackle than a laugh, until it gave away to Orpheus proper, looking at the great hero across from him with sunken, colourless eyes, reminiscent of a black and starless night.

"Ohh, it was you. Of course, it had to be you. You just can't help yourself, can you? Did you rush over as soon as you heard you had another family member to betray, or are you here to soak in the applause of all the people once more? Experiencing it in life wasn't enough for you, is that it? 'Oh great king Theseus, how noble he is! Don't look behind him, at the mangled corpse of his son, it's bad for his grand political image!'" He raised his hands out wide, as if speaking to the world, or some imaginary crowd that wasn't there, the simple act of raising his limbs clearly causing him some great discomfort.

"Ha. Haha. Brotherhood, don't speak to me of brotherhood. I was the only one who ever thought of us as that. Don't act like you care. Don't act like you ever cared! You, who would go on a jolly trip into the underworld to kidnap a God for the sake of helping your stupid brother, I didn't see you go back for me. You probably didn't even attend my funeral, if any of my 'family' even bothered to set one up. I bet you were itching to use that blade on me as soon as we met." Orpheus put a hand to his forehead. "Brother, brother, brother... what a joke. I... 'we' went after her and you!" Orpheus looked up, locking eyes with Theseus.

"You forgot about me! You didn't even bother to look!"

Orpheus' eyes which held no semblance of light revealed a gleam. Something not as dark as the void, an emotion so human that anybody could recognise it at a glance. Pain.

Dissociatio Mentis

What... just happened?

With my brain working as hard as it ever had it didn't take long for a theory to present itself, but still, that... that was not possible. It shouldn't be possible, but my mana circuit is damaged, spread throughout my form. If I was able to puke blood in this form, I would be doing so, but even if not, the flesh shakes and shivers, something foreign irrevocably touching the whole of it. In accordance with this unfamiliar damage, I can feel the drain of my mana rapidly increase. At this rate, it matters not if I kill the others, I shall surely die regardless.

"No."

I can't die. Not here, not now, when my dream is so close.

The reality marble shatters. Not of my own doing, but we are thrust back onto the island all the same. I need... mana, I cannot run out. I cannot, I cannot, I cannot.

"I won't allow it! This is my body, I will not give it up! I will not go back! I WILL HAVE HER AGAIN, NO MATTER THE COST!"

A split comes through the centre of the mass, dividing it into two pieces, and then, in an instant, one of them disappears from the island.

Orpheus' most pressing concern right now, I believe, at least, is mana. A cost of 128 having been spent, with a full tank of 150 going into this fight, leaves him with 22 mana left at a running cost of 80 per minute. The maths is not mathing in his favour at present. As such, although the remaining half is still up there on the island still using both NPs as they're both needed, the other half is going to get some more mana (or try to, anyway).

His first port of call for getting some of that juicy mana is going to be the city below us. Instead of spending the time to fall there (it might be more than a minute tbh, idk how high up we are) as was the potential case prior to reality marble occurring, he's going to be more forceful in getting down there, by which I mean he's using his teleportation item. He's teleporting a fairly big mass of flesh down there, but David's teleportation can teleport a fair amount of weight so that at least shouldn't be an issue. The rules for restoring mana from living people are that it:

"occurs instantly upon their death. However, you must be present to collect the mana, and you must have the intention to kill with for the purpose of regaining mana."

In this case (if there's even people still in the city. If there's not then Orphy will be dead within the minute regardless), Orpheus should be meeting every requirement, so that shouldn't be an issue. I'll repost the mana table, but in general, there should be anywhere from 2 through to as much as 50 per human, likely averaging ~5 per human with some spikes here and there. I've posted a multitude of feats regarding Na Einai's ability to spread, so it's going to be spreading out to its maximum length within this city (large town, which should cover most of it, if not a big chunk, idk how big this city is compared to a large town) quite quickly, eating every single human within that area. If nothing else, it should stop him from dying to mana drain. If there's nobody in the city, then uhh, he's had a good run.

What happens in the city, as has been stated, isn't really any concern to my opponents, though. Back up on the island, Orpheus will just... do the same stuff he's been doing. Na Einai will still be there, covering the island and stuff, as will TAT. As the reality marble is broken, all of team archer at least should be within TAT's range even if rider and eli aren't. I'd also like to remind that TAT has a mana drain to it, but that's only at 20/min so it's not going to be doing an insane amount to help here, but it should slow down the death via mana drain for a bit, at least.

Affectus Morbi

Canute:

Canute will change tactics and just turn him into glass.

That would work better, for sure. What you must remember about transmutation, though, is that Na Einai functions on that same ability. It transmutes things into flesh with that flesh becoming part of Na Einai. As a result, attempting to transmute it isn't just attempting to transmute a blob of flesh (a very large one, at that), it's attempting to overpower Na Einai's own transmutation to the point that you can beat it to such an extent that you can transmute every cell of it. Looking at Mirror Master's feats (that I can find, at least), this seems very unlikely.

Of course, I'm just skimming RTs here, but every feat in there is just the ability being used on people. The best range I've seen of it is just from turning small groups into glass. Usually, I wouldn't argue off the basis of RTs, but even looking at the feat you've shown here, he is also just transmuting a single person. Checking the previous church thread, the same feat here is used and another one is linked to but the scan doesn't work anymore so I can't check that one. Either way, I have already shown Na Einai being capable of instantly transmuting the majority of a forest and an adjacent village upon release:

『"———Liar."』

That was the last word she said.

That's when Takeru realized he broke the promise.

With her back towards the cliff's edge, Kiseki's body fell down the cliff.

Takeru could only look at it, stunned.

After a moment of silence, the forest below stirred.

Where Kiseki has fell down——demons overflowed.

Hyakki Yakou flowed under the new moon. Like a flood, it swallowed the forest, swallowed people.

Screams acted like festival music praising the moonless night.

The demon's feast never ends. It won't end until it swallows the entire world.

Flames and smell of burning flesh attacked Takeru.

——It's your fault, all of it, is your fault.

Under the jet-black sky, screams echoed.

Takeru shook in despair for the first time.

5, 4

I don't think TCFTN has the feats needed to say it can out-transmute Na Einai here. I can imagine that the ability will start to work on a small section and then the surrounding sections of flesh will eat and transmute the glass back into flesh again pretty quickly. The prior post I made on Na Einai has more feats if you want a refresher, but it, for example, transmutes fast enough to overpower hax-based regen of a target that is healed by any damage done to them (that was in my second post in that thread). Na Einai has already demonstrated the ability to overpower very potent hax that works in complete opposition to its transmutation, so I can't see TCFTN being any different.

I’m not particularly impressed by a full release of TAT only making a small ring of dirt. This doesn’t seem lethal.

The 'small ring of dirt' is there because, at that point in the series, EH only had a range of 150m.

Current Radius: 500 ft/152 m

218

The range of Orpheus' is 3 times that amount, so the size of the ring isn't relevant (I'd also like to point out that the quote didn't label the ring as "small" but instead that he "was surrounded by a circular ring of dirt with trees just outside the range of Event Horizon"). Either way, I've demonstrated enough times about the lethality of EH, I don't need to touch on that again and nobody here has argued being able to tank it, anyway (Archer has argued he could resist it for a little bit in the Avenger vs Archer thread, but he isn't using that strategy here as far as I can tell. Thorkell is also mentioned as only 'resisting' it, but I won't belabour that point as it was only an aside and it's clear that he'd be heavily damaged by it in short order). The relevance of the feat I showed wasn't a feat for EH's lethality but for EH affecting reality while he is in a pocket dimension controlled by someone else. That, I'm arguing, should be able to work in reverse, with EH being able to affect a pocket dimension when he is standing in reality, especially as there is an established connection there that is allowing Eli to shoot out of it.

As you say, Canute can close that gap, but that should also mean that Eli can't shoot out of it. That's pretty nice for me, but also, Eonoth in the feat I showed didn't exactly have an open way back into reality, he was actively trying to stop Daniel from being able to leave, so just 'closing the gap' between the real world and the mirror dimension shouldn't really impact TAT's ability to affect it. The gap being open for crossbow bolts (magical or otherwise) to fly through just makes it a lot easier.

The Earls meanwhile aren’t planning on attacking anyone from within Emma’s Dream World, so there’s no real danger on their part.

Even when reading the feats I gotta admit I have no idea what's going on with that dream world. I assumed that based on this:

The same sounds of surprise rang out around him.

The expedition team was lying in the middle of the forest again. Seeing that the Stele of Evaluation had flickered off, he realized what must have happened.

The expedition team had unknowingly fallen asleep and dreamed.

There's still a physical body in reality (kinda similar to that baby's power from JoJo's part 3 if you've seen that) where they dream but the things that happen in that dream are real. If that's not the case and it functions in a similar vein to a reality marble, I'd be interested in seeing how that interacts with Archer covering the entire area with Sherwood Forest.

Q: There are multiple characters with Reality Marbles in FGO. What happens if they use them at the same time?

Nasu: If the opponent’s output is higher, a Reality Marble can’t be used. If both are equal and use them at the same time, I think the two worlds would resist each other. As the RM does not move from the position it is used (does not move with the user), the users have to decide whether to draw the opponent in, step into the opponent’s world, or just wait until both RMs die out.

We know that two reality marbles can only really coexist if they're both equal in might, but one is a full servant's noble phantasm reality marble, and the other is coming from a dragoon, who are objectively weaker than an actual servant. If Emma's ability functions as a reality marble, they should, I think, just get dragged into Sherwood Forest and be exposed to TAT. If it doesn't, there should still be a presence left in reality to attack with TAT. Either way, I don't see how they avoid TAT without being a reality marble-esque effect that isn't treated by the same rules as a reality marble, but even in that case as I showed above I'm at least still arguing that TAT can impact those that are in a different dimension so long as that dimension overlaps with TAT's range.

Regarding Pioneer of the Stars, as far as I can tell Orpheus doesn’t have any intrinsic resistance to transmutation.

You're right in that Orpheus doesn't have any intrinsic resistance to transmutation, but the main ability of his EX rank NP is transmutation, and I think by feats Orpheus' transmutation is far more potent and wide-ranging than Canute's. POTS is kinda hard to debate against because there's not really a feat attached to it to analyse, but ordinarily, there's just no way that TCFTN's transmutation is going to be able to glass Na Einai. Even if it threatens to, as I showed in the church fight, Na Einai can split itself off into different parts, and those parts function as Orpheus just as much as any other, so in the case that TCFTN does start to overpower Na Einai on the basis of POTS (which should necessitate a use in and of itself), it shouldn't be able to do it fast enough for Orpheus to be unable to split off so that only a 'section' of his mass gets glassed. A section that he can then just eat to gain the mass back.

Remember back to the first use of POTS, which was explicitly against TUS to allow him to enter the mirror world in the first place. This exact same circumstance is playing out again with the same ability interaction, so there should, logically, need to be a POTS use to get him in there. That should leave him with one use left, and I think it should take more than one POTS use to clear the conditions necessary to glass Orpheus.

Let me also mention that Canute himself does not dictate the usage of POTS. The odds of a fight beginning with two back-to-back uses of POTS seem incredibly unlikely, especially when we're really just underlings of the main threat that's Moriarty. I would assume that POTS would be most likely to be used against Moriarty personally, instead of the remaining two use cases being instantly used up in the first seconds of an engagement.

Robin:

It's more the latter as I understand it, but given that Robin is currently being boosted by a command seal I'm confident that Orpheus would not find it so easy to break out of the space with living dimension.

He is boosted by a command seal, but that command seal is incredibly broad. "Tonight we shall be victorious" is an order that shouldn't have a particularly drastic effect on the abilities of Robin. If the command seal was focused on increasing the power of the reality marble, then sure, it'd help a lot, but it's really no different from an order of "win this fight," which tends not to accomplish much in boosting a servant's abilities.

A dog without a home has its own intentions as well. At the very least, it can gaze upon that back, the nobility of which it can never match—

“My Servant. I, Waver Velvet, use a Command Seal to give this order.”

The youth raised his tightly clenched right hand, displaying the Command Seals that were as yet unused. These were the shackles that bound the Heroic Spirit before his eyes, the greatest obstacle that blocked his despotic road.

“Rider, you must take the final victory.”

This was not a restriction, only a judgment that was a matter of course. Therefore, Waver gave the order. His heart was light as he watched the first of the Command Seals unleash its prana and disappear.

“Again I use a Command Seal to give this order—Rider, you must seize the Grail.”

The second Command Seal also vanished; he felt a thread of pain in his heart for this light. If he stayed his hand now, there would still be time—this meaningless confusion swept across his heart. It was a fool’s hesitation not worth mentioning.

“Lastly, I use a Command Seal to give this order.”

Waver resolutely raised the hand on which the last Command Seal was drawn, looking at the King who rode on the horse’s back. In that instant, Waver could meet his eyes without the slightest show of timidity. This was his last and only glory as a Master.

“Rider, you must seize the whole world. Failure is not allowed.”

Swiftly liberated, the third holy mark radiated hidden prana; summoning a whirlwind, it disappeared. Waver the magus would probably never again have the chance to perform such tremendous thaumaturgy in his life. But even thus, he felt from the bottom of his heart that this was the most satisfying action of his life. He had no regret whatsoever. In compensation for losing everything, this was enough.

I don't really want to bring up Gilgamesh for obvious reasons, but three command seals of similar scope as the one Antonio used were used on Iskandar, and they ultimately did very little. Using a command seal, particularly one with a "win this fight" condition, isn't the biggest boost ever or anything.

If that command seal is being argued as the difference between the reality marble being broken and not, I would argue that the reality marble would be broken.

It's not impossible, but more likely it would just get crushed into itself. It's obviously not exactly the same but Fushiguro couldn't maintain his large-scale rabbit escape for exactly that reason.

As you mentioned, Na Einai is all Orpheus. It being omnidirectional, one part of Orpheus should always be moving in the right direction. With Great Sage assisting with the understanding of this weird ass ability, it shouldn't take long at all for Orpheus to figure out how this space operates (if he hasn't already broken it). Even then, Archer and the Merry Men are going to be forced into moving in ways counterintuitive to the power imposed on themselves to stay out of TAT's range during this, as it's going to be undulating wildly in accordance with the movements of Na Einai.

On that note, let me mention, TAT works based on a range reaching out from where the user is. With all of Na Einai being Orpheus, it's quite clear that the range of TAT will be increased as well. So, you know, good luck avoiding TAT while following the rules in the very brief period of time it'll take Great Sage to figure it out.

If the demon's magic is different to Orpheus' then sure.

It is different, yes. That was part of the church post where I said that even if the demon survives Moran's NP, if it wipes out all of Na Einai, Orpheus would die regardless. They're different beings. On that note, if the demon is within the reality marble, it should be corrupting the entire marble at a pretty fast pace. As shown in the church fight that I've linked to, the demon corrupts any and all magic that comes into contact with it, and the marble should be no exception. Of course, within the confines of this scenario, I'm sure it wouldn't corrupt the abilities of far stronger NPCs, but Robin is not one of those characters. The reality marble should be taking some pretty hefty damage from the demon's mere presence within it, not even mentioning TAT actively trying to break it on top of that.

Other cursed techniques that rely on marking targets become enhanced by a domain expansion to the point of marking individual cells and I would expect a similar improvement for Love Rendezvous.

I know that you said that Sherwood Forest is the effects of Love Rendezvous as a reality marble (or domain expansion, idk what wording you used in your sign-up build), but I don't think that would necessitate you gaining access to the buff of a separate character that's unrelated to Kirara. Also, under the assumption that this is a B-rank NP, cellular level control should be under matter manip, no? That should be A and above rank, not B. Heightened by your going on to argue attraction at a micro-level causing a body to violently collapse. Well, if it's ruled that cellular manip =/= matter manip (or that this reality marble is A-rank, I suppose) then that's fine, but I always thought it was just, you know, a pretty bad version of matter manip.

If not then it would just be constantly reapplied by how I understand it

This I also want to mention. Not in regards to the demon, but in regards to Orpheus himself. As I've previously shown, Na Einai eats magic. It would nigh-instantly be eating the marks that are applied to it. Yeah, they could be reapplied immediately afterwards, but then they'd be eaten again. This constant de and re-applying of the mark should, if nothing else, seriously lessen the magnetic attraction that Orpheus is feeling. Just based on this alone he should be relatively stable in place assuming it's being eaten and applied at the same rate, but this isn't taking into account Na Einai's eating of the forest itself, which should result in a constant growth regardless of the pull occurring around him. In such a situation, it likely wouldn't take too long for Archer and the merry men to run out of places to go that can avoid TAT/Na Einai.

Also, removing the marks from Archer and his other teammates would just make it easier for Orpheus in this case to approach. Probably not the best of ideas. This is all just Orpheus, though. Archer is also going to be needing to focus on Moran, all the summons, Ba'al, and keeping a strong eye out for that pesky Gilles who has a track record of targeting masters, of which Archer's is here in the same space as him. He's going to be a very busy boy. Also maybe Lycaon, depending on what's going on with the dream world when Sherwood Forest activates, but that's for Naronu to figure out.

"Don't worry, I'll do it for you"

Morbus Animorum

"...It sounds like there's another voice in the back of your skull. You should listen to them."

... shut up. Don't speak like you know me, like you know my plight, like you know my desperation.

"...Can you imagine the weight of knowing the world was destroyed for your sake? The cost of that overbearing affection? No one worth loving could look at you after that."

Be quiet. She wants this as badly as I do. This is the only way, this is the only path left.

She wouldn't want this...

Orpheus' eyebrows twitch. His pulse quickens and his eyes momentarily waver under the cover of a storm of crows.

Don't get brave now. It was your choice to appear here in this form, you chose to reject the caster class, you chose to take the chance to modify it, and even then you were too pathetic to go through with it. That's why you made me, to take the blame for you. So you can sit down there and pretend to be clean. But you're not. Everything I do, I do because of you. Don't pretend to be noble after all of this, you're worse than I am, you're covered in filth, too stained by your own delusions to ever be clean again. So sit back and be absorbed by your nightmare once more. I'll accomplish your dream for you by the time you wake up.

Orpheus' saint graph shifts and morphs under the strength of his words. The voice, the presence, is once more crushed and drowned in a sea of darkness taking the form of a beach of ash.

Orpheus looks back up. He speaks like he knows my pain, like he knows my suffering. He doesn't. He doesn't, but oh, oh he will.

• Charisma buff modified, Oblivion Correction -> A+

Actions

Orpheus ain't playing, or at least, he's not intending to. The proverbial cat is out of the bag, so he has no reason to conceal his EX rank NP from anyone here. As a consequence, he will be opting to open by using both noble phantasms in conjunction. As previously established, the flesh sings:

Takeru tried to reach out with his hands towards Kiseki who was at the centre of meat mass that was singing like a chorus.

5, 4

So using them both won't be an issue.

You already all know what both NPs do, generally speaking, so I won't repost all the feats already posted or link back to them. All the opponents are already well aware of those feats. I don't know if any PC is in use from my opponents, but since Gilles and Moran both use it and I don't know their exact locations, EH at least will be more targeted on my opponents specifically than it usually is. If they have PC users that I can't sense with my normal magecraft senses (great sage, magic sense, thought acceleration), they probably won't be targeted. Everyone else within the ~450m range from the offensive team, yeah, they will.

Speaking about EH first, what's important about this usage that isn't usually important is the defensive measures of the NP. You see, this ability isn't just the aura, it's the properties of Daniel's living dimension abilities (similar to how Agony and Oppression are both abilities that evolve into Event Horizon, Living Dimension is an ability that evolves into Living Multiverse, they're all really the same power, so don't worry if feats use these terms interchangeably)

Without further adieu

Not dying to TCFTN:

As far as I can tell, this application of Mirror Master works via dimensional/teleportation based offensive abilities. Mirror Master works in a similar vein to other dimensional/spatial abilities in doing tele-slice damage upon destruction and stuff, so I think there'd be an agreement for this interpretation:

Gallery

In that case, Tragoúdi Aneípotis Thlípsis (TAT) is incredibly helpful here in a defensive manner, which makes me quite thankful I took the esoteric defences along with it. You see, Daniel is removed from the axis of forces (really, space and time) of the universe he is in, as he has his own (hence the name living dimension/multiverse). This results in things like this happening when he is attacked by spatial manip:

Mana charged into my runes, the red aura of energy radiating out,

“I'm very, very hard to kill.”

Ajax raised his right hand and clasped it. The fluid movement split reality at my neck. It was an odd sensation, like he was cleaving the fabric of dimensions apart around me. It didn’t cleave me apart, however. It felt like I wasn't the dimension he was slicing.

It confused Ajax more than it confused me even. Ajax’s eyes were glowing, green orbs, and one opened wide while another narrowed. It was like he was raising an eyebrow at us,

“You’re not of this plane...You’re somewhere else, while being here...What are you?”

I charged at him,

“Something that will kick your ass.”

Ajax raised a palm to me as he shouted, “Stop. I’ll do as you ask.”

- 106

It just straight-up doesn't work. Note that Ajax is a character whose spatial/dimensional manip allows him to actively access a different dimension for perfect stealth shenanigans:

“I imagine so. We met with Ajax. I don’t know what he’s been doing, but the Ajax you’re following isn’t the real him?”

Torix cupped his chin, “Really now? Odd...It must be a doppelganger. It was my mistake in intelligence.”

I raised a palm to Torix, “I wouldn’t go that far. Ajax has been spying on us since we were in BloodHollow. I can’t stress how much he’s seen of us. I couldn’t even sense a gravitational flux in his mass. I’m guessing he slips in and out of our dimension or something like that.”

Torix frowned, “Well...that’s difficult to even imagine.”

- 107

Althea shrugged, "Yeah, I'd say so, but how? Ajax can teleport and phase through dimensions." She waved her hands around, "He just blips in and out."

- 145

He finished speaking and disappeared. It was a complete and utter erasal of his existence. Nothing remained, not his scent, the heat off his breath, not even his effect on gravity. A second later, he appeared beside Althea. He grabbed her skull, lifting her with a single hand,

- 106

This is accomplished by Ajax being fused with a dimensional spear, something that cuts apart space and time and allows for interdimensional travel:

Schema created all my trees, stats, hell he created everything with the dimensional cipher. He created the sentinels and spears that could cleave through time and dimensions.

- 107

Ajax is, however, just using a dimensional spear, so it's not like he was made with its power, so one could argue that his use isn't perfect. Even though he can dimensionally travel in and out of the realm of eldritch gods who control the space around them:

Yawm leaned towards me, the intensity of the stare like acid.

“The creature wept.”

Yawm leaned back up into his chair,

“And so, this monstrosity flooded the plain that we were summoned in. I was able to contain much of this viscous fluid that was released by him. As the pocket universe around me collapsed, Ajax warped in and pulled me out of Etorhma’s temporal plane. I can still remember the racking cries of that creature.”

- 125

Daniel has, however, fought directly with someone trying to cut him in half with this dimensional spear. And, what happened when they did that?

Rearing back its spear, it let out a swipe that launched out a dimensional wave. It tore across the blue core's defenses, leaving cracks in the hexagonal barrier. Before it swiped again, I propelled myself towards the attack. Reaching out a hand, the slice snapped against my palm, unable to harm me. I gripped the slicing energy, draining it. The Sentinel leaned back from my presence, and I glared at the poor sap stuck in that armor.

- 294

It does nothing. And beyond that, after an exchange of blows and repeated attempts to dimensionally slice Daniel in half

As we got close to the core's barrier, He charged the blade, shifting the magenta-colored edge to a deeper violet.

He sliced through dimensions before the blade made contact with my shoulder. On touching my skin, the blade snapped. There was no resistance, and it was unable to do me harm. As the edge flopped sideways, the Sentinel stared at me. From the cracks in its facemask, its eyes hollowed. The corrupted Sentinel put a hand on my shoulder, and he spoke in his original voice,

"It was a good fight."

- 294

The thing snapped in half against Daniel's skin. In essence, if you wish to attack Orpheus, spatial/dimensional manip isn't the way to go.

Your limitations stem from the nature of your existence. As a dimension, you will struggle to influence the spatial laws around you. In many of your conflicts, others have tried manipulating the space around you to negatively impact you in some way. Your complete autonomy is why you've come out unscathed."

I clamped my hand shut, letting my hand fall to my side, "Like Ajax's dimension slicing or Chrona's time manipulation...Huh, so why do physical attacks still affect me then?"

- 221

This, of course, also extends into teleportation and especially forceful teleportation.

The Overseer pointed his finger at Shalahora, and the Sovereign beside me shifted out of the Overseer's shadow. Shalahora held two locations simultaneously, one half beside me and the other resting on the mana plate. Shalahora linked to everyone present in a single instance, the chain solid and firm.

...

The Overseer pointed at me. Unlike the other rulers, the ascendant Overseer snapped its fingers, sending over some kind of dimensional ripple. A chunk of the ruins and the air around me appeared on the ascendant plate of mana. I raised an eyebrow, remaining unaffected by Schema trying to jerk me around.

The other ruler class members whispered.

- 330

Where it just... doesn't work. As Canute's NP here is attempting to forcefully teleport Orpheus via dimensional manipulation into what's effectively a pocket dimension, I'm fairly confident that it's just not gonna work, both abilities (dimensional manip or forceful teleportation) being used on Orpheus are abilities that he has been shown to be immune to.

If, however, we say that for some reason it does work, Orpheus should be able to get out of it on his own anyway.

"Are you finished then? If this is all you come to say, then I'm leaving."

Eonoth reverberated out, "You may not. Invasion. Anger. Wrath. To test my mind...you will never leave here. My domain, absolute."

A deep sense of dread rose up my chest as he finished his words. I quivered for a moment, losing my composure. Minutes passed before my eyes widened. I remembered who I was and what I could do. I wasn't some scared, little boy anymore.

I raised a hand, standing tall. I reached out with Event Horizon. The aura didn't mold with ease. It struggled out as if moving through solid concrete. I pushed through the resistance, creating a sphere of control within Eonoth's dimension. I clasped my hand into a fist, saturating it with my aura. I spoke up,

"Yenno, I have a damn good reason for stopping you from tampering with my mind. You see, I've seen what you and other Old Ones do to people. Yawm was turned from warrior king of a race to an insane, genocidal maniac. Lehesion was turned from some sort of Messiah to the puppet for some shadow organization. Now you want to have your way with me."

Eonoth grumbled, "I aim not to harm you. I am different."

I shook my head, "I don't think you know what harm really is. You are entropy incarnate, and fortunately for me, I don't have to rely on you right now. I have ways of accomplishing my goals with my own two hands. Try not to take it personally."

Eonoth droned, "I attempt diplomacy. You tamper with me and my mind, a lesser being. An ant. A void."

I raised a hand and grabbed my wrist. I clasped a hand, "Yeah, maybe I am an ant. So was Yawm, and I remember you mentioning that Etorhma was given fear by him."

The dimension around me shifted, becoming unstable.

"Maybe I'll be the one to give fear to you."

Eonoth's voice thundered in my ears, louder than a supernova,

"This is mine. It cannot be taken."

I shook my head, "Not anymore. I'm no longer at your mercy."

Cracks appeared in the distance. Event Horizon stretched outwards as my infinite mana soaked my surroundings. A tint of red expanded outwards further destabilizing my surroundings. As the star beneath me turned red, Eonoth roared,

"Defiance. You will be crushed. Maimed. Murdered."

I frowned, "We'll see."

Something seized in my chest, and my eyes watered. As I blinked, my scenery shifted back to the forest. I took a sigh of relief out of habit before looking around me. I was surrounded by a circular ring of dirt with trees just outside the range of Event Horizon. The sunset over the skyline cast everything in an orange hue. Not a second had passed in realtime. Leave it to Old Ones to defy the laws of physics.

I shook off a few jitters, the meeting unsettling me. It wasn't as if I could actually overtake Eonoth's mind or anything even vaguely like that. All I could hope to accomplish was a meager kind of retaliation at best. I was pretty sure that Eonoth was more offended and outraged than actually harmed.

- 218

As he has demonstrated being able to wrestle out of dimensional spaces controlled by others before.

Sensing no danger, I hopped through the new dimensional opening. Pacing into the tiny dimension, I stretched out with the Rise of Eden, wondering if it placed a different strain on this place. It did. My dimensional wake incited a whirling, aching tremble from the tiny pocket dimension.

Spear noticed nothing, the disruption purely metaphysical. Maybe because I was a dimension, it stood out to me. Regardless of the reason, the sensation strengthened when I stretched out Event Horizon to its greatest extent. By then, the dimension wailed. I pulled the aura back, unsettled by how alive the space felt to me.

- 329

This is a consistent ability, as well.

Thus, I strongly believe that Orpheus should be flat-out immune to the attempt to force him into the mirror dimension, and even if he is somehow placed in there, he should be able to get out of said dimension on his own anyway. I'd like to additionally point out that the feat shown of the crushing of a mirror pocket people are placed in killing those inside was in reference to, like, normal ass humans. I'm not exactly a DC comics expert, but I would like to see this tactic employed against people a little stronger than regular humans.

Hitting those within the pocket dimension:

Na Einai, round 2

POTS:

Reality Marble

Conclusion:

• Oblivion Correction -> A+, mainly for narrative reasons, idk the skill ranks of opposing skills and I'm being hit by an EX crest and two NPs, anyway
• My first NP should render me immune to the attack of Canute
• It should render the attack inert on enough levels to the extent that POTS can't activate and force it
• Lots of Earls and team Archer members are not immune to EH, even if Canute/Eli debatably are
• Na Einai exists
• Na Einai is falling towards the city (depending on the spread and range of Sherwood Forest compared to the spread and range of the flesh, I guess), but if any of that fell you might want to deal with it. Even if nothing did, if we're all in a reality marble you can bet that Orpheus is going to start lying about it, lol
• TAT should function as per normal within the reality marble. If it can't, then Na Einai's size should push it through the paths it needs very quickly. If there are no paths to force its movement then it just fills up the space anyway. It has already been shown that it eats mana, which is what Sherwood Forest is composed of, so the reality marble won't stop its growth.