Jota23's forum posts

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#1 Posted by Jota23 (308 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays: Look, of course my opinion of the ere is going to be affected by its flagship book. That's obvious.

And yes, I've read other books in the era. It had a few good ones but, in general, I'm sorry if you feel the need to protect its honor, but it's not a very good era.

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#2 Posted by Jota23 (308 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays:

Why would you care about a book with shitty D-Listers? Because as you pointed out Bastion starts in X-Force and the Human Council he forms their are the primary opposition for the crossover that Is the climax of Fractions run.

Yes, 'cos when i mentioned books with d-listers, I meant the team led by Wolverine. Jesus!

Also the entire time I've been asking you whether you meant Fractions run or Decimation because of how utterly stupid you sound saying you hate 5 years of comics while only talking about things happening in one run. E everyone basically agrees on what was done right and wrong in Fractions run. You not knowing what your talking about is what took this away from your original point.

And again just to sort of follow up the point that what you are saying is ignorant and contradictory. Your complaining that the X-Men were a faceless mob while at the same time ignoring the fact that Uncanny happened alongside 5 other titles that gave you larger appearances for alot of those "mob of X-Men" characters.

First of all, many of those characters weren't in other books. Some just appeared in Uncanny.

Second, that doesn't excuse the lack of quality in Uncanny. It doesn't excuse the fact that a team book was written around a single character. It doesn't excuse the poor writing those characters got in the book. The fact that a character is written well in, say, X-Men Legacy doesn't excuse the fact that they are written badly in Uncanny. Ok, at least the fans have a version of the character they can enjoy, but the Uncanny version is still bad.

Including Astonishing X-Men which feature Cyclops, Storm, Logan and Emma.

Oh please, Astonishing X-Men became irrelevant after Whedon left. Well, that's actually not right: It became irrelevant when it got so late that other writers started using his characters, because the status quo of the x-books was about to change and they couldn't do it with many of the most important characters in the franchise farting around in an alien world for what felt like 15 years.

But, at least, during that period, the book had his name and his fanbase behind it.

In the San Fran years what did it had? First, we got Warren Ellis phoning it in. Sure, it was still better then most writers in the industry can do in their best day, but why read that when you could be reading a Warren Ellis book were he gives a damn?

Then it was given to Daniel Way, a clear indication that Marvel had given up on the book. Then, it got a new cast and lost all pretenses of being an important book in the franchise.

Which goes back to my original point, that Fractions run is basically the story of the X-Men moving to San Francisco and that if you want to know what happened to the characters, including that dastardly screen stealing Cyclops, youd have to find a book with a character you liked in it...AND READ A COMIC.

And I still maintain my point that, even if I could find another book with a character I liked, Uncanny X-Men was still crap. It was still dedicated solely to one character, to the detriment of everyone else (while he still had appearances in other books, including another book were he was the team leader, in Astonishing X-Men). It still had a bunch of characters with bad or no characterization. The fact that someone else wrote them better in other books doesn't erase the fact that Fraction didn't write them well. Look, if you think a character is having enough attention and characterization in other books and you don't need to do those things, that character shouldn't be in your book.

Most x-men shouldn't have appeared in Fraction's Uncanny X-Men, because he didn't want to write them.

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#3 Posted by Jota23 (308 posts) - - Show Bio

@mcklayn:

I loved Morrison's run but the Wolverine/Cyclops friendship is one of the worst things in it and the story that featured it, Assault on Weapon Plus, was one of its weakest stories. Except for the first issue in the Hellfire Club. That one is good.

Hell, given how random and out-of-the-blue their friendship is and how Cyclops seems to neither have any stakes in that story or help in any way, I suspect he was only included in the story so Morrison could say that Assault on Weapon Plus wasn't a Wolverine solo story in an X-Men book, since Cyclops was there too.

Joss Whedon's Astonishing X-Men is the most overrated run in the industry and he wrote one of the worst versions of Wolverine that ever appeared in a comic. He popularized that dynamic between the two characters that lasted until Schism and it was crap! It was crap when he did it and it was crap when other writers did it.

Maybe Cyclops fans liked that he "tamed" Logan, but if you have to put down other characters to build the character you like, you're doing it wrong.

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#4 Posted by Jota23 (308 posts) - - Show Bio

God, what a horrible month! Maybe Wolverine: The Long Night and Wolverine: Infinity Watch...

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#5 Posted by Jota23 (308 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays: Yes, I'm talking about the Fraction run. It's the only one that matters, when we're talking about the San Francisco years. Why the **** would I care if you liked some shitty book with d-list characters when nothing that happened there will matter, when they appear in the back of a group picture in Uncanny?

Also, those don't matter to the point I was making from the beginning, which is that stories were Wolverine and Cyclops are friends suck.

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#6 Posted by Jota23 (308 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays:

Treatment of women in what run? The Decimation is an Era spanning 6 years and something like 8 to 12 books. The only thing I can assume your talking about is Greg Lands art....which does no one favors considering its traced from porn....or from other comics he drew before....which were probably also traced from porn.

What I'm talking about is Emma being turned into a Stepford Wife that lived only for Scott. I'm talking about the many great female characters who were denied any leadership positions so they'd exist only to obey Cyclops. For Christ sakes, there was even a meme about how Psylocke's only lines in Uncanny were she saying "As you wish" to Cyclops when he gave her an order!

I'm talking about that pathetic Sisterhood.

Fractions run was the faceless mob Era in alot of ways. It's also the book that had the majority of the X-Men from the other team books appearing.

If you wanted individual teams, you had New Mutants, X-Force, X-Factor, New X-Men, Young X-Men,X-Men, X-Men Legacy, and Astonishing all running for the most part alongside Uncanny telling different parts of the Uncanny story arc.

Scott (and really everyone from that Astonishing Era team) is the central character in the Uncanny book because it's about the X-Men and what's left of mutants adjusting to San Francisco. It's why you get one offs about Colossus grieving Kitty, Hellion protesting Hammer, and Pixie being Pixie. There are a SHIT TON of X-Men minis and Tieins in this Era about nothing but the X-Mens lives in San Fran an Utopia.

Translation: If your favorite character was not Cyclops, you'd better pray they were sent to a secondary title because, under Matt Fraction, they'd be lucky if they got a single line of dialogue in the whole run.

As for villains. WTF??? Selene had her biggest success ever in this Era.

In X-Force. Villains only got to shine if they weren't facing Cyclops.

Sinister and the Marauders basically decimated the X-Men in Messiah Complex. And he is sheer godly in every appearance after words from Legacy, to X-23 to AvX Consequnces.

Sinister only got good when Kieron Gillen, the only good writer of the Utopia period, started writing him

This is THE best showing for Juggernaut.

Becoming Collossus?

Magneto joined the team instead of being impotent antagonist since their were no other mutants.

So Cyclops fanboys could jerk-off to him kneeling before Cyclops.

Maddie returns to life.

See the pathetic Sisterhood.

Shaw had 2 arcs about him.

Which sucked.

Bastian and the purifiers nuked Utopia and killed Nightcrawler.

Another X-Force villain. Apparently, that's the only way they'd get written as competent antagonists.

Also, any attempts at new villains were awful.

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#7 Posted by Jota23 (308 posts) - - Show Bio

@mcklayn: Yeah, you seem to be pretty good about disregarding things, like how the rest of the X-Men were turned into a faceless mob that did nothing but follow Scott's orders. Or how all the villains were incompetent buffoons, to make him look good. Or the treatment of women in that run. Or how badly written Logan was during that run.

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#8 Edited by Jota23 (308 posts) - - Show Bio

@mcklayn said:

hmm this is a good one, and I got an odd one that I think is going to happen just from spoilers but you know

Cyclops & Wolverine: Ive been re reading some of the older stuff right around decimation and the utopia era, and the two had a real bro mance going. The two were shoulder and shoulder together in everything and really worked real on a team together, lets see it again. Make the bicker back and fourth like they always did, and then the occasional moment where Logan comments "its times like this I realize why your the leader"

No Caption Provided

The x men are good, when these two are both good its just a fact. Lets make it happen

Decimation and Utopia were terrible. Wolverine and Cyclops have the worst friendship in the x-books.

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#9 Posted by Jota23 (308 posts) - - Show Bio

Jesus! It's bad enough Wolverine is involved in this crap, they choose John McCrea to draw his story. This is a freaking nightmare!

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#10 Posted by Jota23 (308 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrnihal: They've been doing good job at that, lately.