Joewell911

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Joewell911

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Joewell911

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@ugivemethelulz: Oooh, fun. How many rounds we doing? Since we're both having such long posts, maybe one more round after this, then voting? (So you get a counter, I get a ending post, you get an ended post.)

Round 1: Rebuttals

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Required listening. Just wait for it.

The Eternal Warrior

To keep it short, I'm not gonna look at every last feat and analysis them. Instead, I'll focus on the ones that matter and specifically the match up here.

Gilad is much stronger and durable than Sato

I have to give you this. When it comes to physical strength, he has Sato himself beat. However, I would like to bring up that comparing strength adds next to nothing to this fight. It's not a boxing match and Sato is smart enough to realize where Gilad's weaknesses and strengths lie. Due to that he wouldn't allow himself to grappled or anything (he can always take of the limb and reset) and since regeneration is a thing, Gilad's higher strength will be next to a nonfactor.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. It doesn't matter if one's durability is higher than the other, it matters if their durability can take the other's output. I'm gonna look over the blunt force stuff, as it doesn't really matter to someone who uses blades and bullets. While you've shown Gilad taking bullets, I'd like everyone to look at these scans closely.

Not only do bullets knock him on his ass, they actively hurt him. These are handgun bullets to the chest. While he may be able to get up from that, Sato doesn't play as easily.

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Clearly, Sato always aims for the head. So if a handgun bullet to the chest lays him flat, what do you think a shotgun blast to the face will do? He'd be done for.

More skilled and just as fast if not more

Let's talk about skill, shall we?

Gilad is admittedly more experienced, can't lie there. That's not to say Sato's 50+ years constantly fighting means nothing, though. What I'd like to bring up is how his age may actually be a hindrance to his skill.

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It clears says here he has "forgotten more than most men will ever know." So it's a big question as to how often and how well Gilad can actually use all these various martial arts. Sato, on the otherhand, displays his combat prowess every time he's in the ring. It's always effective and fatal.

Furthermore, really?

Here he stomps dozens of Fitz clones in the short confined space of a train car. And each Fitz clone is an expert in every fighting style known to man.

The way you're putting this is kind of silly. You're making it sound as if he is fist fight/more skilled than these people. But look at the scans you showed. He's using guns and explosives to wipe them out. This hardly shows a thing about skill. If you gave me his pain tolerance, strength and weapons, I could have slaughtered a room full of skilled people too. Anyone could.

Okay, maybe that's a weeeee bit of an understatement. But still, this isn't nearly as impressive as you're making it out to be. This isn't showing that he is more skilled than people who know all martial arts, this is showing those people can't dodge bullets and are prone to fodder syndrome.

Now, you might be wanting to bring up Sato's gunslinging in combat and comparing, but if you look at the gifs and videos I provided in the intro you can very easily see that when Sato takes down incredibly high level fodder, he does it using sheer skill.

Keep in mind, handpicked and best in the world fodder.
Keep in mind, handpicked and best in the world fodder.

So while yes, where as Gilad has an edge in experience, I'd say Sato uses his raw skill in combat more often and overall has more impressive showings in the skill department.

As for speed, yea, they're about the same. They can both aim dodge/low level bullet time and blitz trained humans. No real advantage to either. I would just like to mention that while he can occasionally dodge bullets, your durability section shows that skilled marksman (Like Sato) can consistently tag Gilad with gunfire. Unlike Sato, however, he can actually be put down by a nice headshot.

His gear can can compete with Sato's especially his Revolvers

I mean, sure? But nothing here can actually put Sato down for good. He can shoot, slice, dice, and punch the Ajin all he wants, but it's not doing a thing against his immortality. Meanwhile, Sato's weaponry can hit Gilad just as consistently and do far more permanent damage.

So. While Gilad has an advantage in strength and durability over Sato, neither really matter due to Sato's weapons being able to keep Gilad down with a well placed head shot. Meanwhile, Sato's showings in skillful combat are generally more impressive (CQC with the best military force in the world>gunning down a room full of skilled clones.). In a fight between the two, Sato should come out on top a majority of the time. While they can both land blows on each other, Sato always strikes for lethal areas (head and heart) and is bound to get a stab or shot in after a couple moments of combat. On the otherhand, Gilad won't be able to keep Sato down due to his endless regeneration and slightly superior skill.

Ninjak

We're gonna do this one the same way we did the last.

Ninjak consistently dodging point gunfire even when in total darkness speaks volumes for his speed seeing as how he does it so casually usually with fair

As far as speed goes, his reaction speed is impressive. While Sato's initial assault may still cripple or kill Gilad, you've convinced me that Ninjak can deal with most long range assaults with guns. That being said you didn't show much for combat speed and he is capable of being tagged by guns and even relatively skilless foes, so it's not like Sato is outclassed.

Skill

Most of the nerve strike stuff I'll be covering down below in the battle section, but there are a couple things I'd like to mention from this section.

And unlike other fitz clones Fitzy is a rouge clone who ran away and trained under the undead monk and upon returning home he proceeded to utter curb stomp 5 clones of himself

And remember each Fitz clone is an expert in every fighting style known to man yet Fitzy stomped five of them at once. What makes this more impressive is that all the clones were his exact physical equals being clones and all. Meaning Fitzy with no physical advantage stomps five clones with sheer skill and Ninjak goes and stalemates the guy.

Can you show me these clones that "have mastered every martial arts known to man" actually not being treated like fodder? I mean, I know the statement is there, but you think they'd act a little better than common street thugs in combat, right? Everytime you've mentioned it it's just them being stomped, lol. I feel like they should at least be putting up a fight if they were actually as skilled as they say.

Anyways, we don't actually see the fight between Fitzy and Ninjak, so it's really iffy to use this feat. It's said that they stalemated, but due to it not being shown we can't see who had the advantage or what tactics are used. I'm not saying it's entirely invalid, but it'd definitely a loose feat because of lack of details.

Better yet Ninjak goes ahead and slaughters over 30 students of the undead monk

And it was the undead monk training that allowed Fitzy to stomp his clones. Now obliviously these nameless students aren't as skilled at Fitzy but it goes to show that Undead Monk training>Mastering every martial art

Okay, but these are just students? Like, still in training? I'm not downplaying this feat, it's very cool, but saying it's better than mastering every martial art is a severe overstatement. As students, these guys shouldn't even be close to the level of training Fitzy received, so beating them-while a good feat-isn't as good as you're saying.

Also worth mentioning this isn't really a stomp. Ninjak was tagged multiple times by the fodder.

And in all its safe to say Ninjak has more versatility in gear than Sato

Sure, you have that one. However, not much of it is very relevant against Sato.

  • Explosives, flamethrowers, and bonus spikes will simple reset the Ajin and be ignored. This is the guy who casually ran a plane into a building to make an entrance, then crawled out of the rubble laughing.
  • Flashbangs, stun chemicals, and tasers are all things Sato is used to dealing with. It's not like Ninjak uses it normally anyways, plus Sato knows how to play around them. Even if something manages to stun him, he's shown he's can kill himself fast to reset poison or other disabilities.
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So while Ninjak has more gear than Sato, it can all be countered.

Strength isn't an area Ninjak is absolutely crazy in but he is still a physically formidable foe

As for durability his armor is as being bullet proof

Once more, strength isn't all that important here. So I'll just hop over that unless it becomes relevant later on.

While the chest plate may be bullet proof, I'm severely doubting that the fabric covering the arms or knees is. Unless you can prove otherwise, I don't see why a close range shotgun wouldn't be able to blast away his legs. Even if you can, the face is still vulnerable. so he can still be brought down be gunfire.

I believe in a 1v1, Ninjak fares better against Sato alone than Gilad, I still see him losing alone in a straight fight. Skill is roughly equal (after debunking the monk stuff) and so are stats. While Ninjak has some useful gear, Sato's ingenuity and immortality overcomes it all. I see a fight between them going as a battle of attrition, with Ninjak slowly getting tagged more and more until he's injured enough for Sato to land a final blow. Unlike Sato, Ninjak won't come back.

The Fight

The starting position plays greatly to my duo. The Eternal Warrior can confront Sato head on while Ninjak sneaks off for a stealth attack

You're welcome ;)

Now I'm not even gonna try to fight through the stealth argument. I'll just give it to you, Ninjak would be able to sneak up on Sato if all things went as planned. However, since you're sending the Not-So-Eternal Warrior out front, I doubt things are going as planned.

As Gilad makes his mad dash towards Sato to fight him head on, Sato will rain down bullets and grenades. You showed yourself that fair marksman such as Sato can tag Gilad with guns and because the Ajin always aims for lethal, I see no reason why he doesn't just get either headshot or crippled here. If he does somehow manage to close the distance and prove a threat to Sato, the Black Ghost will come out and impale him through the heart.

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Since you're relying 100% on Ninjak's scanners to find the IMB, Gilad has no way to combat this. He'll die before he can touch Sato.

Upon watching his friend die, it's very likely Ninjak comes out of hiding himself. Either way, we'll move to counter measures.

But before that Gilad can engage in head to head combat against Sato drawing his attention away along with his black ghost. So far from what you've neither Sato nor his ghost can detect Ninjak as both their attention will be on Gilad. This leaves Sato open to being taken out by an unseen Ninjak. I know you've shown that it can operate even when Sato is unconscious but my team can survive a surprise attack from the ghost. In term in piercing damage Ninjak can tank its attacks with his armor seeing as how it can stand up to Roku's hair and Gilad can tank gunfire healing from it quickly letting him survive a sneak attack.

Gilad can't survive something stabbing through his brain/heart, at least not with what you've shown me so far. Considering a bullet to the head KOs him (counts as a wincon for this fight), the IMB taking a couple fingers through it will take him out for sure.

If either is attacked , at which point Ninjak can quickly cycle through his sensors to detect the black ghost and avoid its attacks. Of course they'd try to attack to but from what I've shown I'm sure they can unintentionally survive the time limit for Sato's ghost.

When they're attacked by the Black Ghost, Gilad for sure fall due to lack of awareness. Ninjak will most likely come out to help his companion and start cycling through his scanners, but honestly I don't see him being able to find it in the 1-2 seconds it'll take for the IMB to clear the distance and deliver a painful blow to Ninjak. While he can survive a couple hits, it'll be downhill from there. Sato will still be firing at him as he tries to detect and avoid the Black Ghost. Eventually, a fatal hit will land considering the sheer amount of threats he'll be dealing with.

Wrap Up

Gilad is stronger, more durable, just as fast if not more than Sato. He can tank attacks from the Black Ghost.

Ninjak is much faster , skilled, and more versatile gear than Sato.

Ninjak go undetected by Sato and his black ghost with Gilad drawing their attention

Ninjak can quickly disable Sato and detect the black ghost by cycling through his sensors

Ninjak can survive a sneak attack from the black ghost due to his armor

My team can unintentionally survive long enough for the ghost to disappear.

  • The first two are nearly non-factors and he simply can't tank being stabbed through the head or heart without severe damage. Being shot in the chest and having your heart impaled and torn are much different damages and it'll be enough to bring Gilad down before he can reach Sato.
  • He isn't "much faster" at all. He's a bit, yes, but not nearly enough to blitz. His combat speed is around the same level, too, so the only place he holds an advantage is reaction speed, but even then he's shown be taggable by someone like Sato. His skill was debunked and his weaponry can be overcome.
  • Gilad is bait and he'll be eaten within seconds. Sending him out to rush at someone with guns who can tag him, along with a being he can't detect is 100% a suicide mission. Gilad will be dodge a couple shots, get hit and stunned by a couple more, then delivered a fatal blow by the Black Ghost. All of which will happen in most likely less than a minute.
  • This is assuming Ninjak doesn't try to help his partner who was just impaled and is now laying dying on the ground. If he does and comes out of hiding, the IMB will attack him and most likely land a couple hits before he can find the right sensor. At this point, it'll be a 2 v 1 against one opponent who is around equally skilled and armed to the teeth and another who is invisible and can completely ragdoll him. Not to mention he'll most likely have already taken some hits. Considering the fact he has no way to deal damage against the Black Ghost, it'll just be a game of dodging. But seeing as he's been hit by slower things that aren't invisible, I don't see that being very successful for him. As a final nail in the coffin, Sato will be assisting in taking him down and he'll eventually be shot, stabbed, or crushed by two.
    • If he doesn't come out of hiding after this, then he lands his sneak attack on Sato. But since he doesn't know about Sato's regeneration it's highly unlikely that he wouldn't just use a normally fatal blow, especially since he has zero knowledge other than "he's dangerous." It seems like Ninjak only resorts to nonlethal attacks against people who A. Don't deserve death (not the person who just killed his friend.) or B. People who he can't kill normally (He doesn't know this yet.). So an in character Ninjak goes for the kill and the IMB attacks him as Sato regenerates. At this point he'll be out in the open in a 2v1 and it'll be back to the scenario described above.
  • Survive, most likely, but he'll be stunned and injured. By the time he recovers, the IMB will already be in for another attack and Sato will be launching grenades and bullets his way. A stunned Ninjak will most likely be tagged and further stunned, thus able to be killed.
  • I'm not sure why you think this. Gilad can't for sure, he has zero way of detection alone and can't take a fatal blow from it. Ninjak has a better chance, but that's surviving 2v1 for 5 minutes in direct combat. One against a thing he can't harm at all and another who'll shrug off any attack he lands while dishing out a reasonable amount of damage from a range. 9/10 times, he'll just b overwhelmed.

Basically, that's a lot of words to explain the following:

  1. Fight starts, Gilad is gunned down and/or impaled by the Black Ghost.
  2. Ninjak either comes out of hiding or continues to sneak and gets a lethal attack in that Sato will regen from.
  3. Ninjak will have to search through his scanners to figure out whats going on as he is assaulted by the Black Ghost and Sato. By the time he gets to the right one, he'll already have taken some hits. Injured Ninjak vs Sato and Black Ghost, Ninjak loses due to Sato being able to keep up by himself (as described in the Ninjak section) and the fact that he's outnumbered.

And with that, we conclude round 1!

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Joewell911

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#3  Edited By Joewell911

@holyy:@ugivemethelulz: Here we go! Let's start it off quick!

Introduction

The Man in the Hat

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Sato is a psychopathic ex-soldier who values his own entertainment above all else. Unfortunately for the rest of the world, he derives entertainment from slaughter.

As an Ajin, he is entirely immortal. He cannot be killed in any way and he will regenerate all injuries after taking a fatal wound. In addition, he can summon a "black ghost" to do his bidding, but we'll talk about that more below.

Just to give a quick visual to all the viewers, I'd like everyone to watch this:

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And now that piece of badassery is out of the way, I'll introduce his physicals and what he's bringing to this fight.

Stats and Skill

While not incredibly mindblowing or anything, Sato is very clearly above even peak humans and can easily keep up with your team. Since it's not relevant, I won't really be covering strength or durability of Sato himself, but he can easily ragdoll fully armored men, as you'll probably see as we go on.

Speed

Sato's speed is a strong advantage of his character, being able to blitz highly trained humans and even other Ajin quite regularly.

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Dodging darts fired from guns from an entire hallway full of soldiers while only inches away from his face.

Able to react to a sneak attack from above by another Ajin, then sling him across the room.

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Bullet timing automatic gunfire from behind.

And that'll be a good taste for now. Below we'll get to see his combat speed in the skill section and you can be even more wowed!

Skill

While he may not be a thousand year old warrior who's mastered everything ever, Sato is a damn good fighter. He has been in the military and fought in multiple wars, and was apart of the most elite team the US military had to offer, even before he knew he was an Ajin. After discovering he was immortal, he assembled a team of around 20 and went to war against the entire country of Japan and could have won if it weren't for his lust for combat. He is extremely practical and will use his immortality as a means to gain an advantage on his opponents. He's quite used to taking on the "best of the best" and still coming out on top, as you'll see.

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He is flashbanged and in the dark and yet easily dispatches two SAT members in hand to hand combat. His impressive combat speed can be seen here.

In this clip, we can see him wiping out an entire squadron of 50 military soldiers. These weren't just any soldiers, however. They were handpicked to eliminate Ajin, the top of their classes in various military and police units all over Japan. The best of the best, but still solo'd by Sato.

His gunsmanship is also worth mentioning. He's able to gun down a squadron of Anti-Ajin while under fire from them.

And while there is plenty more, I believe consistently taking out entire squads of the best of the best in two separate countries allows him to compete with your team for now.

Immortality

There isn't too much to say here. Sato can, quite simply, not permanently be killed. While his regeneration isn't active, his body will completely reset whenever he would normally die. Limbs being chopped off will come back and he'll even consume his own regenerating organs in case of starvation. He's taken everything from repeated gunfire to the face to a hug from a grenade. And he does it all with a smile on his face.

In addition, he's extremely smart with his usage of his immortality. He knows he can be crippled and not killed, so he's always willing to kill himself when need be.

He has also used his own blood as a weapon to distract and blind opponents.

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While there are ways to overcome this, it's up to you to prove whether or not your duo can figure out these ways while in mid combat against a threat they've never seen before.

The Black Ghost

Now here is Sato's biggest advantage in this fight against your two. I'll let the in universe Ajin expert speak for what exactly a "Black Ghost" or IBM is.

Basically, it's an independent spirit-like being that can be used by Ajin. It can be controlled directly or set to fight alone. It is naturally incredibly fast and strong and cannot be harmed by normal weaponry. In addition, it is completely invisible to the naked eye and is made of an unknown black matter. However, as a downside, it can only be summoned three to four times a day and goes away after five to six minutes.

To get a since of how strong Sato's in specific is, we can look at the ones around him that are confirmed as weaker.

While all black ghosts can slice through humans casually, Nagai's can rip out and throw street signs and Tanaka's can dodge gunfire (excuse the shrunken screen, but I couldn't find anything else.) Tanaka's and Izumi's were shown to be equal earlier in the series, aanddd Sato can take Izumi, Negai, and another Ajin at the same time.

So basically, that was a lot of scaling and me spending way too much time hunting down entire episodes to say Sato's Black Ghost can overpower and take punches from beings that can rip through metal and outspeed beings that dodge close range gunfire.

In addition to the impressive stats of his IBM, it also shares his great skill in combat and is shown having an advantage over Nagai's own ghost.

The flat headed one is his.
The flat headed one is his.

And for even more fun, it can come in fast enough to catch bullets and darts out of the air.

As you can see, it can stop normal weaponry right in it's tracks.

And if all that wasn't enough, it can even fully function while Sato is unconscious!

The Loadout

This will just be a small section explaining the gear Sato is bringing to this fight.

Basically, in an average fight he has prepared for, Sato is armed with several guns, an armored vest with pouches for ammo, a blade, and his hat. Usually included is a shotgun, an assault rifle, and a handgun, all of which can be seen being used above.

For this fight specifically, he'll be bringing in his "Easy Mode" weapon, the Executioner. It is an airburst grenade launcher that uses laser technology to detonate the grenade above the target's head, therefor bypassing shields or cover. It is an impressive weapon that can bring down entire squads of soldiers with a blast.

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And of course our boi knows how to use it.

And with that, I'll conclude my initial opener of Sato. To give a recap, Sato is a superhuman soldier who is neigh impossible to bring down. His skills are immense; better than anyone in his world and he is a practical and strategic fighter. By his side he has an invisible beast of a summon that can help him to take on both of your characters. Aaanddd he has a armory of weapons that'll be sure to give both of your characters hell in his hands.

Opening Thoughts

While initially this may seem like 2 v 1, in reality it is not that case. Due to his black ghost, Sato has a companion that'll provide quite a bit of trouble for your team. While I can't speak on the specific physical advantages Sato does or doesn't have, here's about how I see the fight going.

  1. As the fight begins, Sato will calmly start looking for your team. Considering how quiet everything will be, it shouldn't be very hard at all for him to hunt them down.
  2. Upon seeing them, Sato will simply rain down gunfire. Considering his impressive accuracy and automatic weaponry, it's very possible he lands some hits here. Along with the guns, the Executioner will be a pain to deal with. It has no chance of missing due to it's AoE and laser-point accuracy and it's highly debatable whether either would be able to escape the blast radius in time. Since it's a direct headshot each time, I doubt either are surviving even one solid hit by it, either.
  3. Even if they could normally dodge, they'll be dealing with another threat up close. Sato will summon his black ghost to attack your team up close while he fires at them from afar. As far as I know, neither of them have an means of even locating it, let alone being able to accurately fight it. It's likely that one if not both are killed due to the sneak attack from a being they aren't away of.
  4. At this point, they'll probably be tired and at least somewhat injured, if not dead. Sato will move in to clean up, still backed by his IBM. His skill and immortality will alone him to keep up in CQC and his weapons, invisible companion, and willingness to die in battle will allow him to bring down the injured foes.

With that being said, I wish you the best of luck. It's your turn, looking forward to seeing your post.

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#4  Edited By Joewell911

The Contestants

Sato the Ajin, represented by Joewell!!

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VS

The Eternal Warrior and Ninjak, represented by Ugivemethelolz!

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Rules of the Game

  • All parties are in character and morals on, but determined to win the fight.
  • No prep or info, besides a picture of the enemy and that they're dangerous.
  • Win by death, concession, or some other form of incapacitation.
  • Sato is composite, anime, movie, and manga feats apply.
  • The duo is classic and modern.
  • All get standard gear. Sato is armed with The Executioner in addition to his normal load out.

Location

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  • Fight takes place at the location above.
  • Sato starts besides the tanks in the back, The Eternal Warrior & Ninjak start up from by the ladder.
  • Ammunition and standard military grade weaponry can be found all around the arena.

Challenge A Viner Rules

  • Do not start extra arguments, post unnecessary scans/videos or interfere in the debate itself in any way. If you wish to inform either of us on anything important or correct us on a point, send us a private message.
  • If any of the above is excessively broken, we may request a mod to assist.
  • Your vote should be decided based on the debating quality and abilities of the participants. Not necessarily on the characters they are representing.
  • A reason for your voting choice would be greatly appreciated too.
  • Regular posting/commenting is fine.
  • As always, may the best debaters win.
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Joewell911

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@ugivemethelulz: Sweet. I’ll PM you with the details in a bit. Could I get the names of your characters? Lol

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@azureus: He has the IMB in this fight. And remember, no knowledge or anything. How do you think Bradley takes him out?

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@ugivemethelulz: Sounds perfect.

I just finished an anime called Ajin and I’d like to rep the main villain. He’s an ex-military officer who’s an Ajin, which is basically a human that is entirely immortal. Whenever he dies, he’ll “reset” and heal all wounds, although he doesn’t heal normally. Also, he has an humaniod mass of matter that can be used to fight by his side and is invisible to the untrained eye.

Maybe a 2 vs 1 would be appropriate? I’ve never even heard of your guys, so I’m not sure, but those people you listed are exactly where he’s at.

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@primez0ne: @emperorthanos-: Ah, well, we’ll get ‘em next time.

Thanks for the fun match and thanks to all the voters for reading through!

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