Jmarshmallow

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Jmarshmallow

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Yeah. Prime Mel is more than strong enough to last for one minute against Prime Escanor, and after that minute Mel is definitely more powerful. If Escanor could last longer than that, it'd be a tougher call.

But one minute isn't long enough to take Mel out.

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Jmarshmallow

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@richard96:

> The evidence is what I already given you. Your refusal to accept it won’t change things.

You've given me zero evidence.

> And in the novel, which takes precedence over the game,

The book is based off the game. So while typically Books take priority over games in SW canon, the book was very clearly the supporting canon of the two. I'm sure youll fight me on this, and that's fine, but even then the game is still canon to the series (obviously). Both can be used when referring to SK, unless OP says otherwise.

> the didn’t even had a real fight. Galen threw some things at Sidious and Sidious encouraged him to strike him down to convert him to the DS. And Galen was in a oneness state during the lighting clash.

I'd ask you to post the fight excerpt.

> Stated by Sean Williams, who wrote the TFU II novel.

Ah. Fair point, I remember that, but an offhand comment made by the novel writer isn't WOG. He didn't create the character of Starkiller, so his word isn't canon. Worth noting, to be fair.

> Even if the clone was on par with the original one, he still STRUGGLED with a pre prime Vader. ANH Vader lost to TPM Maul, lol.

1). That was a clone.

2). Vader didn't use the Force like at all in that fight.

3). Vader won.

> Galen bested an overconfident and pre prime Vader in TFU I.

Nah. Prime Vader is the SW Rebels period, which is when TFU1 and 2 also take place. There's nothing to suggest he's not in his prime during both games, there's only a 6 month difference between them.

> This doesn’t change the fact that his superior clone struggled and had to cheat against TFU II Vader.

Cheating? Like blasting someone with lightning while they're not looking?

> Nothing states that Vader didn’t improve by the time of TFU II,

Nothing states that he did either. And you'd have to prove he did, the burden of proof is in you.

> since it was even stated that his suit improved and was more resistant to lighting and he fought more cautiously.

Suit improvement =/= skill improvement

> But TFU II Vader is still miles below palps.

Miles behind is dramatic. Prime Vader is stated to be about 80% behind Palps.

80% is not miles behind.

> Point is, a superior Galen struggled with TFU II Vader, that is basically a previous version of a guy who lost to TPM Maul.

I have addressed all these points individually, so I'll keep it moving.

> And you are telling me that TFU I Galen, that is weaker than his clone, legitimately beat Sidious? LOL.

Yes.

“The whole plot of all of SW is that your emotional state and position on the Light/Dark Side of the Force contributes heavily to how powerful you are in the moment. That's why Anakin lost to Obi-wan despite obviously being more powerful.”

Anakin lost to Obi-wan thanks to his mental hindrance AND a lot of other circumstances (in legends). A mentally hindered anakin was still better than kenobi who got driven back for the entire fight and had to exploit the environment. But I won’t to spend time more on this, that it’s irrelevant for what we are discussing.

> Here, this is a real fan theory. There is nothing stating Galen emotional state was unstable in the DS ending, simply he chose to kill both Vader and Sidious. And a mental unbalance wouldn’t still justify Galen passing from a Sidious+ opponent to a ragdolling fodder for sidious. It’s still your speculation. On the contrary, he was arguably rage amped.

Rage amped is not a real amp for SK. Sidious did not ragdoll him.

And sure, you can call it a fan theory if you'd like.

But if we're only using direct feats, and not common sense, then the clear, direct feat is that Galen beat Palps in 1v1 combat.

End of story.

> But Matt Martin stated it depicts accurately what happened if Galen chose it. Hence it doesn’t matter if it’s canon or not. This, plus the fact a superior version of Galen struggled with TFU II Vader who is miles and miles below Sidious cements the fact that Galen NEVER challenged Sidious, not even in his wildest dreams. Period.

Of course it matters. Non-canon is non-canon. It can't be used. Period.

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Jmarshmallow

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@bananavist: You still haven't proved that though.

You say that KH3 Sora scales to X Blade MX. But you've also said that KH3 Sora needed help to beat X Blade MX. Which means he wouldn't scale above KH2 Sora.

You also haven't proven that X Blade MX is more powerful than Twilight Xemnas by feats.

Prove these things, and then you can scale. That simple.

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Jmarshmallow

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@bananavist: Canon to the DBS anime? That doesn't make any sense.

Sure, if you say "Krillin vs Grand Priest but you can only use feats from the anime" then Krillin would win by nature of GP having no feats.

But that's ridiculous. He has feats.

And again, scaling is fine. But you need to support scaling *with feats*

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@alextheboss:

> There is no canon ending since the whole game isn't canon.

That's not how Canon works.

There is a canon ending to the series, even if the series isn't canon to the SW Universe any more.

Legends SW exists for a reason.

> Starkiller force clashed with Palpatine and died while Palpatine was completely fine.

Nah, Galen jumped in front of Palpatine's lightning to protect his friends. They didn't "force clash" as that would imply that Galen was shooting lightning back.

> It was completely fair,

He zapped a blind man while his back was turned, and then Galen jumped in front of it instead of just swinging on Palps because he wanted to protect his friend.

That's not even close to fair.

> and Palpatine was clearly more powerful.

Palpatine lost before that. So no, he clearly isn't.

> Starkiller's only advantage was his lightsabers.

An advantage he clearly still has here, as canon Palps is definitely worse at lightsaber dueling than Legends Palps.

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@richard96:

> I am really tired of the usual SK wank. Palps was just testing SK.

That is just a fan theory which has gotten passed around as fact way too much. There is no evidence, in the game or novel, that Palps wasn't giving his all.

> His clone, which was confirmed to be more powerful than the original one,

Confirmed? By who? Last I checked the closest that the game came to confirming that was the Ultimate Visual Guide saying that the clone "possessed Galen's fighting ability." But that alone definitely doesn't confirm that the clone is more powerful.

If you have anything else, please provide it.

> couldn’t beat a largely pre prime Vader without cheating and got ragdolled by Vader.

Which really negates your point above, since Galen clowned Vader in TFU1. And besides, if your argument is Palpatine being the one that was "toying" with him, what does Vader have to do with this? Unless you're saying that Vader was toying with him in TFU1, which wouldn't make any sense given the plot.

So I don't see how Vader fits in here.

> Not to mention, in the DS ending sidious clowns Galen. Even if the events of the DS ending aren’t canon, the characters are the same, and Matt Martin stated that it’s an accurate depiction of how events would take place. SK didn’t beat a full out Palpatine, brain around this.

The whole plot of all of SW is that your emotional state and position on the Light/Dark Side of the Force contributes heavily to how powerful you are in the moment. That's why Anakin lost to Obi-wan despite obviously being more powerful.

In the DS ending, Galen's emotional state was super unstable, and he didn't have a solid grasp on the Light OR Dark side. So yeah, of course he gets beat by Sidious.

And again, it's not Canon.

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Jmarshmallow

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@bananavist: Grand Minister blocked punches from Beerus and Quitela casually with two fingers.

So no. Your attempt at sarcasm isn't accurate.

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@alextheboss: In the Canon ending, He beat Starkiller as Galen abandoned his own safety to protect his friends.

And Palps only did that after getting ragdolled by Marek.

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If Palpatine pulls out those Death-star-level-Star-Destroyer-busting Force Lightning attacks, then I guess he could win.

But realistically Starkiller has every advantage here.

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Jmarshmallow

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