jimmyboy131

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jimmyboy131

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I'm tempted to just say that Cassie wins in like five seconds. A couple of quick perfectly placed nerve strikes before he really knows what's going on, and he's down for the count. Good thing for him she's not a killer.

She fights and reads people like an expert linguist speaks and reads languages.

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#2  Edited By jimmyboy131

@evil_incarnate said:

I need to clear this up. Diana loses to Superman not because of his strength and durability, but because he also has speed and a plethora of other abilities at hand. The Hulks have strength, durability and "enhanced" speed. That speed is nowhere near even some of the lower tier speedsters in DC. Diana's physicals trump both She-Hulks add in the fact that she has weaponry while they don't and can fly, has true super speed and is a top notch fighter and there's no sense to your argument. Red She-Hulk has literally ONE good showing and she was amped to do so.

Actually, Diana doesn't lose to Superman, unless maybe if she holds back and he doesn't and he manages to break her neck. But even then, as in "Sacrifice", she held back and he didn't. And he was a sun-amped Superman, blood-lusted, trying to actually kill her, not just beat her. Yet she held back, and subdued him long enough to deal with Max Lord without him interfering. Sure, she took a real beating, but in then end, so did he, and she nearly killed him. Sure, she's not as durable as he is, but it never made sense to me that she was less strong than any Kryptonian. And of course, we all know that she's a far better fighter, and is faster.

And I've long held the view that anyone and everyone short of the gods (or God himself) will be instantly stomped by Diana if she's out for blood and using her sword, with the possible exceptions of the other divinely-powered power-houses, Captain and Mary Marvel, and Black Adam. But since she's such a highly skilled fighter, and since that sword cuts through anything, they'd be hard-pressed to survive very long.

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#3  Edited By jimmyboy131
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#4  Edited By jimmyboy131

OK, I'm three years late for this one, but I just found it.

I don't think you guys are looking at this the right way. This battle doesn't even become interesting until after the Witch-king wins. And he'll do so in like five seconds, easily. No real contest. But this is only part 1.

Part 1: Yeah, we all know Darth Sidious is among the top Force-wielders of his day, and against almost anyone else you could think of, he'd win, probably easily. But not against the Witch-king. He has no real chance here. As has been stated before, the WK's feats and powers are more implied and "understood" than explicit, but we can make some reasonable assumptions and guesses as to how he'd operate and what he would do. But we do know that one of his main weapons is fear. And while the Sith also use fear, they use it differently. They may have faced down their own fears, or they may have simply channeled that fear into helping them wield the Force, or both. In this battle, the WK will use his powerful Fear weapon to freeze Sidious with his own fears (whatever those fears are really don't matter; he'll be overwhelmed with it). That's one thing we know the Nazgul are excellent at: instilling fear.

And let's say that Sidious makes an attack against the WK before that happens. It still won't really matter because whether it's a lightsaber attack or a lightning strike or whatever, neither will harm the WK, and in fact would cause severe feedback damage, like what happened to Merry and Eowyn. It's possible that WK will just channel or deflect any lightning right back to Sidious ("Oh no...not again...", says Sidious) So anyway, that's just assuming Sidious tries and successfully gets off the first strike. The WK, before or after that happens, overwhelms Sidious with fear, while at the same time using his own "force" choke, or something very similar, like what he did against I think it was Frodo on Weathertop. He raised his hand and Frodo's toungue stuck to the roof of his mouth and his mouth was shut so that he couldn't say anything. I'm blanking on the exact situation where that happened, but that's an example (not a guess) of what the the WK could do. Then WK will simply walk up to Sidious, who is frozen with fear and choking (and who just had his lightsaber exploded in his hand at the same time), and stab him in the heart with his darkly mystical Morgul blade (assuming the WK doesn't just slice his head off and be done with it). That battle is over in seconds, with the WK being the clear and easy victor. Remember, the overall context here is dark natural against dark super-natural. Powerful super-natural is very likely to easily overwhelm even powerful natural. Now on to part 2, where it could get interesting.

Part 2: Now that Sidious has been stabbed in the heart by a Morgul blade, he will become a wraith just like the Black Captain of the Nazgul himself, and will become the slave of the WK (those who knew the Nazgul, like the elven chiefs and Arargorn knew that this would happen to anyone wounded in this way by the WK). However, this is where Sidious comes back into one of his own specialties, which is deceit and betrayal. This is why it becomes interesting. So now Sidious, assuming he can think this way now that he's under the control and influence of the WK's ring and thus Sauron's ring, can begin to plan against the WK and somehow try to take his ring from him (not likely to happen regardless), or just do him in somehow, by which could possibly do himself in too. But that's really the only way I can see Sidious actually having a chance against the WK, and if he does pull it off it could be interesting to see it play out in the long run. Then there might be a new Black Captain, one who is wise in the ways of the Dark side of the Force, which probably isn't really a lot different than being a black sorcerer like the WK, except now Sidious would have access to the super-natural dark power that the WK had.

Well, that's assuming that all that goes unnoticed and allowed by the Eye, who is the true lord of the Rings.

tl;dr: Sidious gets curbstomped so badly it's not even a contest, but could use deceit and subterfuge to win a second battle in the long run.

-------------------------------

Also, elven blades likely won't do much against the WK except allow the wielder to take a lot of feedback damage and not be destroyed, though it's also likely that even an elven blade would be destroyed, as Gandalf (or was it Elrond?) stated about blades in general. The only blade we know that is sure to cause harm to the WK (and thus be able to penetrate his dark spells that protect him) is a blade of Westernesse, a blade forged by the Numenoreans (Aragorn's people) specifically for the purpose of harming the WK and the other Nazgul. It was that kind of blade used by Merry when he stabbed the WK in the leg, thus breaking his protective spells, thus allowing Eowyn to stab him with a normal blade. But even Merry's Numenorean blade was destroyed when it struck the WK. Didn't matter, though, at that point since it did the damage it needed to.

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jimmyboy131

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@supercrusader: Cap takes hits so that we can see that he's actually human, even if he is a maximized human. He's still human. And is therefore still beatable.

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@jayc1324: Exactly. It's an inconsistency, which I believe was used purely for dramatic effect. Plus, in Avengers (MCU) we saw the shield take a hit by Mjolnir, wielded by Thor. Not many things can hit that hard, let alone harder. We also saw (in the preview for Age of Ultron) the shield being used as a "baseball" by Thor, with his hammer as the "bat". Why? Because they all know it can take it. I don't know what's happening in that scene, other than Thor is being fancy and is using it to hit something very hard.

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I like the costume, except for the thigh-high boots, and the blades coming out of her bracers. That's just silly. Why on earth would she need those, unless she's trying to be yet another Wolverine knock-off/wannabe? o.O

But I also really liked the black jacket and leggins look we got a few years ago. She should've stuck with that, honestly.

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@jayc1324 said:

@nickzambuto: I don't have the book on hand but I'm pretty sure he did. When the criminal was talking about how it look like bullets went right though him.

All that is great from cap but firstly I would like to point out that Cap would not be superhuman in comics. All of that stuff is stuff comic batman could do. Being superhuman is just a title, and is relative to the universe that character is in. Cap is superhuman in MCU but not in comic books. Secondly, yeah you've shown he is physically superior in most ways. But vibranium absorbs hits so the feat of him falling from the elevator belongs entirely to the shield, and there's still nothing to say he can survive a hit that snapped a tree in half. Not to mention batman survived the fall from the top of the bridge when saving Gordon's child from falling.

That criminal was called Flass, and Batman did not bullet time. The bullets went straight through Batman's cape, which is what Flass was probably talking about. Flass thought Batman was some demonic monster and had a tendency to overexaggerate things, which is why Gordon kicked his ass, because he knew Flass was exaggerating his story. During the scene in question, Batman landed, and then he saw the guy drawing his gun. He would have had plenty of time to telegraph the shot. So we've got one, kinda-arguable statement from an unreliable character known for lying and exaggerating things, vs three explicit showings of Batman directly failing to dodge bullets, you tell me what Batman really is capable of. The guy is a peak human but he has his limits, that was a major part of Year One actually.

In Avengers, Cap's shield seemed to absorb hits, as shown when Thor struck him. However in Cap 2, which is when the feat of Cap freefalling took place, the shield was portrayed as not absorbing hits because Winter Soldier nearly crushed Cap through the shield with his metal arm, unless you want to say that Bucky was stronger than Thor? So the shield is inconsistent, but what's important is that the feat where Cap freefalled took place in the same movie where his shield was portrayed as not absorbing force, therefore the feat is legit.

And why exactly can't Cap survive a kick that snapped a dead tree when he tanked numerous hits from Red Skull who left a gigantic indent in Cap's bullet proof stainless steel shield? Metal >>> wood, bullet proof >>> half dead tree. Therefore Red Skull >>> Batman. There's also Bucky who Spartan kicked a man like, 30 feet into the air and through a plane. Plane >>> wood. Yet after a mentally and physically exhausting battle and getting shot like five times, Cap was strong enough to just stand still and allow Bucky to wail on him with the metal arm as much as he wanted, the metal arm being many times stronger than Bucky's organic parts.

Yet kicking down a tree and breaking bricks is supposed to be a big deal? Cap is just as durable as he is strong, actually I'd like to see some durability feats for Bruce instead since he was nearly killed by the Mutant Leader who's not half as strong as Cap, and not a millionth as skilled and quick.

That's a fair point about Bucky pushing Cap back while hitting his shield, but I think that was purely for dramatic effect. It is well known that Cap's shield is THE tank in the Marvel universe, taking blows from Thor's hammer (nothing short of a hulk should be able to do that and live to tell about it), and things like that. Only Odin-level powers and those wielding the Infinity Gauntlet, or things like that, can do real damage to it. That's why I will say that when Cap fell out of the SHIELD tower, it was the shield that took almost all (if not all) of the impact. Otherwise, Cap would've died.

So Cap isn't going to be tanking anything like that without his shield. But in this fight, he does have his shield, and we all know he's an absolute master of wielding it. Bats here isn't going to do much but maybe try to stay out of Cap's reach, but with that shield, he won't be able to.

Bats is just outclassed and outgunned in this fight.

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#9  Edited By jimmyboy131

Cap and Batman realize right away that Deathstroke and Cain need to be eliminated posthaste, else things will be much more messy than they need to be. Bats backs off enough to let Cap and Daredevil "do what needs to be done", with Deathstroke's head and neck separated by Cap's shield. Had any of them any time to notice, Cain would be found unmoving and unresponsive shortly after facing Daredevil.

Blade and Kingpin somehow end up impaled on Blade's swords. Blackbat is seen quickly departing the immediate vicinity...

Bullseye is double-teamed by Black Panther and a couple of the Bat-family.

Batman and Cap leave each other alone long enough for most of the rest to be eliminated. "It's more efficient that way." It ends up being the greatest rumble in the history of rumbles, with Batman, Robin (Drake), and Blackbat on one side, and Cap, Daredevil, and Black Panther on the other. They're "to the king!"ing on Bats and Cap, when everyone looks up and sees both Thanos and Darkseid appear in the skies, locked in mortal combat over possession of the Infinity Gauntlet. Cap whispers "not again...", looks at Bats, and they realize that this will require all of them, and then some.

Somehow, beyond all hope (never abandon hope where Cap's shield bangs and clangs), we soon see Bats, quite worse for the wear, as he watches tensely, as ready to act as he's able, as Cap stands, stares wearily down, then slowly reaches down and picks up a bundle that is one each of Darkseid's and Thano's scorched and severed hands, both locked in a death-grip on the Gauntlet. By now the heroes of heroes are the only two left standing, only barely. There is no hint of paint left on Cap's shield. Cap says, "Trust me, friend..."

And the Gauntlet is used to put itself permanently out of reach, while simultaneously restoring fallen friends. Somehow, they won, without any actual bloodshed.

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Batgirl, easily, especially if you're considering Cassie and Barbara. They, like their mentor, are mere humans, yet they accomplish so much. And they embody courage and selflessness, especially considering that they are not bulletproof, super-strong, and can't fly, etc. Would the super-types accomplish as much if they too were merely human?

After that I would choose a Wonder-type, whether Girl or Woman. That's mainly because they're not as over-powered (relatively speaking) as the Kryptonians and Martians. They don't have super-vision/laser vision, super-breath, etc. They are melee fighters and have to get up close to do whatever they need to do.

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