IheartZombies92--defunct

@iheartzombies92:

Sorry about not answering your question, computer is glitchy as f*ck

Would you please read what I right. I said he supported, I asked you if he lifted it, the answer is no and his ability to lift is lessened as he distributes his mass.

A coffee table can support weights it cannot lift. ***

He didn't push it up, he held it stationary. If I put you under a mountain, would it not collapse upon you? A coffee table cannot lift because it can't do anything, as it is a coffee table.

Your right on the Superman part, they don't include it every time but once is enough.

You actually need something to show someone can move at these speeds other than the same flawed logic that people use to claim certain anime characters are hypersonic+. Sonic Boom, statement of actual speed, distance and time frame or outracing something with a measurable speed such as a jet.

Look at bullets drawn in comics - just because there are no visible sonic booms, doesn't mean they aren't going at mach speeds. Basically:

1. Bullets travel at over mach three (depends on the gun).
2. Luther is faster than bullets, as shown in the scans posted at the start.
3. Jack is much faster than Luther.
4. Ergo, Jack is faster than mach 3 (at least).

So you where actually comparing jumping which was never shown to go that high as it was in the confines of a building to actual to flight, I don't feel I really need to say anything here. ***

I'm not saying he can jump a mile into the air and fly for an hour. I was just proving that he can take to aerial combat momentarily, which I did.

Refutted Jacks speed and Cap can run at best 60 mph on a straight road so how where you possibly expecting him to keep up with Jack? ***

Not really, you just didn't read up on it. Hopefully now I've filled you in. And I don't expect him to keep up with Jack, I expect him to get to your guys pretty quick, though.

Why would my team be running towards you?

You have no gauntlet you wasted your prep.

I have refuted Jacks speed.

The rest are not factors as they are either too slow, have useless ranged attacks or are not going this way.

1. What? When did I say this?
2. What? What even is a gauntlet, how did I waste my prep?
3. No you didn't.
4. No they're not, all but Gambit (who is going a different direction) can cover 1000 yards in under a minute. Also, Cap has a rifle.

1000 yards, firing beyond the sand wall at people in cover

Right, 1000 yards. Just under a minute, then. We get over the sand wall, and then we fire. Also, you don't seem to go into detail about the size of this cover - how big/strong is it? My team can just clear your defense in a jump.

But you didn't you wasted your prep and no it wasn't intelligent as a dog, it only showed rational thinking as a human.

Why do you keep telling me I "wasted my prep"? You are allowed to make this decisions mid-combat. That's the point of this debate. And yes, it did. It showed rational thinking as everything it was, be it man, spider-thing, or dog. It shows rational planning as a dog when it evades the humans and then bides its time to attack. Does a Skrull turn stupid when she shapeshifts into a non-human form? No. Likewise, the Thing so far shows intelligence in all forms. Are you seriously arguing that a shapeshifter would lose its intellect by shapeshifting? That'd be a terrible power, which wouldn't work at all.

Considering the sandwave was shown actively grasping at someone I won't humour you, no, there is no hope in hell of Jack running on top of it.

And does that someone have mach + speeds and reflexes? He can just leap over it. It didn't look tall, at all. Nor did it look very wide, and in a two mile + long canyon, there's a lot of room for mobility.

I saw scan of him dodging a girl with nothing else to distract him. Here's one of GR2099 sniping a more advanced Spidermans webbing with his targeting and lasers as he attempted to get away. Just in case I need to remind you that lasers move faster than bullets, some even believe they are even above hypersonic :P

Yeah, dodging automatic gunfire from a few metres away. And deflecting other shots with a simple knife. Even above hypersonic? No, surely not! ;)

Sure, lasers do, but there's the actual question of aim - if GR can't get a bead on the guy, how's he planning on shooting him?

That's Luthors respect thread not Jacks :/

so the answer is till no then

It would probably look really bad if you got others to debate for you

Yeah, the point is, Luther can do all that and Jack is still vastly superior to him in each category.

Not debate for me, just answer this one question.

Speed refuted

Helmet not there

I am going to end up repeating this a lot: Jack ran ahead ***

1. No it wasn't, I repeat, Jack is clearly at least mach 3.

2. It can be if I want it to be, no rule shows that I cannot retroactively change my gear.

That's exactly what you've done, you attempted to place the helmet on his head after he was targeted. ***

Don't exaggerate his speed***

So? Where does it say in the rules that you cannot retroactively change the positioning of the gear?

I am not, I have proved he is at least mach 3.

If you want the answer to these questions watch the video provided

I have. That looks like a not at all wide, fairly short wave that Jack could leap over easy, or my other team-mates can go around.

I am going to hold you to that because if anyone is foolish enough to believe that he is that fast then this is you effectively admitting that I've won as the rest are useless

This isn't me effectively admitting anything. This is you simply deciding that no one can hurt your team, and that you've won. You're placing your entire plan on a flimsy, one-shot defence that, as I've said, Jack can go over/around, and my other team-mates can go around.

all useless

Again, you do not prove this, you just say so. How are they useless? They are all formidable and can hurt you. The Thing, as I have mentioned, can take one of your guys out and get them on our side. My other fighters can go one-to-one.

Read the mission details, the cliff face is 2 miles high so they cannot simply hop up it. Attempting ?!? she's too fast for Reed to stop

Again, she'll be tangled up with my team. As I've said, they can hug it (not literally, just stay close) and go around like that, not necessarily up.

Then why have you gone on about being allowed to change it? ***

Because I am allowed to change it.

What you or I consider is logical is irrelevant you had one helmet and did not place it therefore no one has it.

You also forgot the retroactive Thing prep and changing where you sent your characters. ***

Again, where does it say in the rules that you cannot change your original plan? So far, I assume you can, as have my previous opponents.

Speed refuted

Nope.

I said 1000 yards, I reminded you that I could build as close as 500 if I had wanted to.

Reminder of what's happening, Jack is speeding ahead and is taken out, Monet and Bison then go after the package handlers up on the mountain/hill/cliff/whatever

A reminder that you are not running along a race track because of what I did during prep

alter the immediate terrain so that there are huge spikes pointing forward

In front of those spikes will be a hole as Gaara grinds up the Earth to make colossal amounts of sand and then proceeds to grind up the upper layer of ground behind the fortress and in front so that there is plenty for him to work with.

Both the above taken from my prep

Okay, sure.

He is not taken out, your team cannot achieve that.

That's great and all, but as I've said many times, a) Jack can go over it solo or b) my other team-mates (or Jack) could go around it

No he doesn't they penetrate his body and these aren't bullets it's a sand coffin crushing him

Yeah he does, users of the Hercules Method stop bullets with their muscles.

Great that it's a coffin and all, but as I've said, he can go over.

Repeated point, you never did that during prep and no it doesn't have human intelligence as a bird, in fact they where suicidaly dumb even as humans ***

I can retroactively do things with prep. I can bring up other strategies. It's part of the debate, and I won't not do it just because you personally don't allow it. Yeah, it does, I have mentioned this before.

• Repeated point, 1000 yards, the gauntlet is not a race track, Jack rans ahead

Um... okay? What is your point here?

• Repeated point, not a race track, Jack runs ahead

What are you saying by this?

Repeated point, filled with unproven abilities, Jack has never jumped that high. Not wearing the helmet

All of his speed and strength abilities are proven, and he has shown great jumping feats. He has not jumped that high but with his speed and strength, he easily could.

T-spheres too slow! lol. They can go at about 14 mps which is roughly 50,000 miles per hour or in this tournament top speed

Okay, that's pretty impressive, I admit.

Repeated point and outright lie, below is all you did for prep

In the one hour of prep, Gambit charges up the bullets in Cap's rifle. They each now pack the punch slightly higher than a normal hand-grenade.

No, it really isn't. You just dislike my strategy and instead of refuting it, simply tell me I cannot use items/do things because it is not to your satisfaction.

I already said he won't be able to destroy them, why did you repeat this point without proving otherwise?

He can charge items, but I agree, 14 miles per second is impressive.

You are outright lying again and about something you said one post ago, below what you said.

Bullsh*t, next your going to say he's always at New Suns level, anyway may as well just end this control point.

*sigh* No, I'm not. Instead of just accusing me of lying, over and over, try and refute some of my points. He can use his charm to influence people's behaviour, not outright control them.

No, I'm not. You can predict what I will say? Are you precognitive?

T-spheres stopping mind control.

Great, but it isn't mind control. That isn't allowed. It's subtle influence.

Jack rushed ahead and may I remind you said he cannot solo.

He can cause your team serious losses solo, the others just lay in for the smackdown.

Gallery

Say please. Here's him charging objects at distance (apart from the last one).

Faced and handled are 2 different things and yes, because most of them haven't faced TK

Unless we see some amazing reaction feats for Bison, what's to say a simple rifle shot from Cap won't put him down?

The rest of this has all been refuted by correcting your misinformation. Jack ran ahead and got taken out, Kleiser can't keep up and even if he could is too slow to avoid a sand wave, Thing wasted his time at the start of the match looking for a bird and is too slow, ditto on sand wave, Cap fell behind Jack and irrelevant of canyon size my characters are not 2 miles wide and are behind a sand wave.

No, you haven't corrected anything, you've just ignored points/techniques that you dislike, or opposed them just because. Jack runs aheads, clears your sand wave and artillery and gets to work with the Muramasas and the glue trap. Kleiser sprints around and sets upon your team in about forty seconds, same with Cap. Thing doesn't waste a lot of time, birds are quite common, sand wave is not at all that impressive and gets subverted by my team in various ways, they go around or over.

Mentioned but never proved despite being called on it. ***

I have pointed it out now.

Except knock him on his ass, as I said earlier his ability to survive blows is not an issue and regardless my tactic is blitzing it out of his hands as he is mid stretch, ramming, T-spheres,TK are merely fall backs if you ever get around to showng fantastics strength (not support) when he has stretched to the limit

No, it wouldn't. The great thing about his power is his malleability - hell, he might even just wait for Monet to come in close and then restrain her, as he regularly does with 100+ tonners. Again, why would he be stretched to the limit? He won't need to stretch a lot here.

@dextersinister: @iheartzombies92:

Bumping the Thread, Cause I can :D, good posting. Keep up the good work.

Simple question are you actually trying to say he lifted the mountain higher which would be well outside of Things strength limit let alone Reeds or was my analogy correct and it simply fell on top of him. Simply post the scan to show.

No, he didn't, he stopped it from coming down. Supporting it. As in, he held it, stationary in the air for a few seconds.

You could say that but no one would buy it, if he moves so fast compared to Luthor then how was Luthor able to tag him? answer is neither Luthor or Jack are as fast as some make them out to be, heavy blurring is the art style of the comic, I don't buy after images being of any importance in Marvel or DC either. Monet knocked a building when moving at mach 3, he barely chipped the wall when he rushed on to one

Everyone who reads Strode "buys it", Luther is also no slowpoke himself. And Luther could only tag him when they started fighting close range, hand to hand. No, it's not the style, blurring isn't present anywhere else done like that. That is clearly showing how he's moving so fast, he is a blur. Good for her, it wasn't his intention to "knock a building", nor could he, as he was fighting inside.

Also if he was even running at mach 1 then where is the sonic boom as he breaks the sound barrier?

The artist didn't draw it. Superman barely ever visibly breaks the sound barrier, and yet he flies at FTL speeds. Your point?

Your actually posting a picture of him jumping in a building as some comparison to flight ?!?

Well, yes. That's how flying works. I'm not saying he can float in the air or control his flight, but he could cover large distances through the air using strength and speed. This is less flying, more controlled jumping.

The route is through a canyon, a wide canyon but a canyon none the less so a straight line towards me.

You have yet to show measurable superspeed for any of them and most are below 60 mph and if you've noticed I never said the artillery would kill any of them except one guy maybe Cap who is sitting taking aim.

The artillery creates a danger zone, a situation where you either back off and lose or run at my characters who are sitting comfy where it becomes unrealistic for you to claim that you could dodge all of there ranged attacks while your contending with a gauntlet.

Yeah, a wide canyon. So how big is this set up? The canyon, from the measurements given, looks to be at least a mile and a half wide to four miles at some points. We could easily go around. Jack especially, with his superspeed and reflexes could just sprint around, as per my original plan. I've shown Mach + speed for Jack, Cap, Kleiser is as fast as Cap (if not faster), the Thing doesn't need superspeed as it can just assimilate a bird and fly over the conflict, Gambit will be elsewhere and Reed can tank any artillery shots.

A gauntlet? So, your team? And would your team not be in danger too? And what about my gauntlet? Like I've said before, the second the match starts, Jack will head forward - glue trap or not - and attack with his blades. Another thing, how tall is the artillery set up? Jack could, you know, leap over it, as he has leaped great heights before. So he could start attacking your team, Cap could be sniping (and yes, he has fired under fire before), Kleiser could be running without a care in the world for you (considering that Cap would make 500 yards in under thirty seconds, I reckon Kleiser could do it in 25-30) the Thing would fly up as a bird and then go around and blindside your team, while Reed goes up the side of the mountain (he doesn't even need to! He could just hug the wall of the canyon and go around like that) with Gambit protecting him with his own TP and kinetic energy powers.

He can have whatever look he wants if he is going to sit there and take aim while artillery fire is coming down.

If he feels like it, he could close those 500 yards in under thirty seconds. And depending on the rate of fire/spread of the artillery shots, he could run to the far sides of the canyons and snipe from there.

ok so now the thing is out of the match, he's running around looking for a bird to assimilate and if he eventually catches one long after it matters he will realize that it has the intelligence of a bird and is just as likely to go after his allies than his enemies or a rat, or snake or whatever is nearby.

Why after long? There are birds flying around. And it could assimilate one during prep time. And no, it'll still have its own intelligence - it is just as intelligent as it always is, even when it is a dog, for example. So my plan is still in place.

Could but unlikely

Unlikely =/= impossible. He can. Why couldn't he? So you accept this point?

I didn't need to so this ones on you, you have neither basic or advanced knowledge.

Fair enough, I understand. However, any of my team could take the helmet and it could be useful. To be honest I just forgot about it, but giving it to Jack who'll be taking the frontal assault is the most logical option.

Just because you said he can do something doesn't mean he will succeed when he is carrying a glue trap,being targeted by TP sniped at by multiple shooters and he has no answer for TK.

The glue trap's weight is no big deal, he could cover half the distance and then simply toss it, the helmet protects him from TP, and he laughs at snipers (r guns in general), if you see my scans.

I've seen people say otherwise so I'll need proof he is within that range.

Like who? I made a respect thread for him here, and based of his feats of bringing down a building with punches, shattering concrete with his fists, etc. should place him at least at ten tonnes. I can call some of the guys on the battle callout phonebook to settle this, if you want.

Why would she be? although not as fast as your making him out to be Jack is still your fastest character so rushing in on his own expecting him to solo means that he is taken out before any of the others are an issue.

He's up to the tourney limit in speed, so he's as fast as her. Unless you plan on sending off Monet (your heaviest hitter), he easily solos your team. With the combination of a glue trap, the anti-superhuman factor blades, and Cap/Kleiser/Thing support, your team will have their hands full, to say the least.

Those are neither relevant or decent, Thing does not weight 100 tons and none of him have him seriously stretched as you are are doing to him

Shatterstar knocking around Thing, not knocking him out

old scan of Thing easily overpowering Reed

more relevant scan to the situation as I am blitzing the box out of his unsuspecting hands and Spiderman moving at a slower speed can knock him off balance

how I could easily beat Reed if that was the goal. Either sonic or energy both of which Reed is susceptible to.

Decent? What does quality have to do with them? And yes, they are relevant. FYI, "100 tonner" means bench strength. Reed clearly wasn't fighting there. He stands there, says "amazing" while Spidey hits him, not doing any damage at all. Fact: Reed cannot be hurt without massive blunt/cutting force, and the only times he has ever been defeated (and I mean properly defeated) was when guys who are in the billion tonne range stretch him out/tie him in knots. I'm not saying it's impossible to take Reed out using simple strikes/cuts, but it is very hard, and I don't see how anyone on your team is strong enough to take a box off morals-off Reed.

Not through the sandwave and cover. Cap is not a factor

Again, read the earlier part of my plan. Unless the sand wave is over two miles long, it isn't covering the whole canyon. And most of my team could easily toss him to the side. He is a factor.

It shows what you most likely would have done rather than try and retroactively place it on a specific characters head just as they are being targeted which is not allowed.

Where does it say that? I am using what gear I have to accommodate for your strategy. It's not like I'm saying, "oh, I know your character will be at x at time y, so I place a bomb there" - there'd be nothing to debate about. Me and my opponent did this in our first match. And anyway, even if there is no helmet, he'll be on top of your team before any TPing can happen.

It took out a damn forest and is near unavoidable for Jack the only character that will be facing it before I take the box because the rest are too slow. He will be crushed and pulled into the ground and your not even factoring in all the other things he needs to worry about.

Your one character is not soloing my team WHO HE IS RUNINING STRAIGHT AT while they are waiting

Reed is not there only Jack and no he could not, he would be pushed over and pulled under, he cannot stand in the way of 100's if not thousands of tons of sand.

Like what other things? Your team? Again, with the help of gunfire, the Thing, and Kleiser, they will be toast. How fast is it? How wide? How tall? He can sprint around it, go over it, or simply get there really quickly (500 yards is no big length). He's not getting crushed or puller anywhere.

Again, 500 yards. That's barely anything when you can go at multiple times the speed of sound. Let's see some reaction feats for Ed, Bison, etc. - when he rushes into them, glue trap, Muramasa blades, everything, with bullets cutting into your guys, they won't exactly have an easy life. Fine, he doesn't solo, but the Thing, Kleiser, and Cap make this easy for him.

No he is not and no she will not, Jack ran on ahead.

Yes he is, and yes she will, because if she doesn't, then Jack can easily slaughter the rest of your team. While she's trying to disarm Reed, my guys can pull up and take her down.

So you are saying that if you made a losing strategy you are allowed to change it using knowledge you wouldn't have?

What knowledge wouldn't I have, apart from TP? And anyway, my current strategy is the winning one, same as my first one.

No you don't, your attempting to change your strategy based on what I've done.

What? No I'm not. How? By giving a character a piece of equipment that I have, that he'd logically wear anyway?

He can attempt to run on top of sand wave if he wants

Sure. He could also go around it, or jump over it, easy.

Your a thousand yards away not miles, WW2 artillery could easily accomplish that let alone modern and full metal had near modern tanks and artillery pieces on top of Ed studying up in the danger room which generate images for him to look over.

I thought it was five hundred yards? Doesn't matter, 1000 is also miniscule. Okay, fair enough. What is the firing rate? How many cannons are there? What is the width of the range? My team could go around, or over, or just catch up in barely any time at all (500/1000 yards is tiny for my team, which has pretty fast guys who can cover that in no time)

Just like that bone guy but he was still washed up except he had the advantage of having supernaturally hardbones covering his body and a curse amping all his stats. Jack isn't even bullet proof.

No, he tanks bullets, or better yet, dodges them.

• `you made the Thing useless by having him waste his time capturing and turning a bird which will be unable to follow orders as it has the intelligence of a bird and could attack your team-not a factor possibly a liability
• Kleiser is too slow,-not a factor
• Cap is apparently dodging artillery while shooting at targets behind a cover and a sandwave 1000 yards away-not a factor
• You have Jack speeding out against my team on his own, who have prepped for a direct attack with spikes, a pit, a sandwave, cover and expect him to avoid it all and solo, despite Gr2099 sniping him if he makes it over the wave, multiple spheres, TK, TP messing with his motor functions (which pretty much makes sandwave death certain) and whatever else. That enough just makes his dash horribly unrealistic.
• You are attempting to backtrack to save characters or not waste their time, I expect the Thing may give up on his avian hobbies in the next post
• I didn't underestimate Gambit you just hadn't done anything with him
• You are now breaking the rules by attempting full control over Bison so I won't bother listing immunities and resistances I don't even think Gambit can do that anymore.
• You never mentioned Monet in any of the things Gambit will be doing so she just blitzed the box out of Fantastics grasp mid stretch or grabs it in the air. None of your ranged attacks would even make her flinch.
• Gambit cannot take out the T-spheres in that manner
• You think smashing a truck into a mountain with TK isn't impressive?

Anyway I have this, most of your characters are either performing useless of suicidal actions. Gambit is being carried by Fantastic so he can't engage Monet if he was capable of reacting fast enough.

The box is either snatched from the air or Fantastic while he is mid stretch, he is simply too slow at the best of times but is taxed strecthed thin and carryiing Gambit and a ton

If I had to Monet could Ram him which takes out Gambit as well, Bison could fling him or ram him taking out Gambits as well, Tspheres could blitz or blast taking out Gambit as well.

• How is it useless? It can get to the bird during prep-time. And no, the Thing retains its intellect. This part of my plan is solid.
• No he's not, he can cover 500 yards in less than half a minute (and 1000 yards in under a minute) and has insane durability/regen. A factor who gives your team a headache.
• He gets around the sandwave as I've mentioned, has great accuracy with a rifle, and the cover doesn't sound too great. He's a factor who can mess up your team once they start fighting whether you like it or not.
• Yeah, he can just jump over it. How high is this cover again? Sniping doesn't mean jack (puuun), he's beyond bullet timing. I've detailed how he (and the rest of my guys, for that matter) can dodge your sandwave. TP is protected by the helmet (and anyway, he will get there in seconds). Spheres and TK are too slow. His dash of barely any distance with support from my team is successful.
• No, you simply don't comprehend the Thing's power, he's not giving up any hobbies, rather, he takes your team out from the air. I am not backtracking, everything is per my original plan.
• I have him using TP on anyone who approaches, destroying T-Spheres/equipment with kinetic energy, and protecting Reed.
• Full control? Eh? No, not full control. Gambit will just "convince" Bison not to attack him. That's not controlling him. And yeah, he can, and he's always been able.
• Again, Mr. Fantastic has great feats relating to stretch strength power, and Monet will have her hands full with Jack anyway. You can't have her trying to TP him and attacking Reed at the same time. What ranged attacks? Jack simply slices her up with the blades.
• Sure he can, that's his power.
• Compared to what my team have faced, no, not really.

No, I rather think I have this, as most of my characters are getting around your attacks and taking out your team, apart from two, who are delivering the package. Again, Monet can't be in two places at once. Jack takes her down with help from my team, and maybe a Thingified teammate of yours.

Snatched out of the air by whom, if Monet is busy? No, he is not taxed, carrying just over a tonne is easy for him. He can wrap himself around them, and no one will get to them.

Bison and Monet will need to help your team, because if they don't, when Jack, Kleiser, Cap, and Thing are finished with yours, they'll come down hard on the pair. I've mentioned how Gambit can take out the Spheres. Monet ramming a guy with Reed's durability wouldn't do a thing.

So you don't have any showings of him charging someones else's items for later use.

Would it not make more sense that he charged the card as he took it out and again what stops the bullets from exploding when the gun hammer strikes them?

I am sure he has, but I understand your skepticism. Often, Gambit's powers are quite malleable, and he has been shown to be able to manipulate kinetic energy on such a level that he can control when the projectile will go off. I mean, logically speaking, just holding a charged card would set it off, right? But I'm willing to let this slide for now. The explosive bullets are just a little extra, and not integral.

Well yes they have. It's commonly accepted on the vine that feats from the bygone era are no longer appropriate if feats within the last 20 years contradict them.

Again, fair enough, let's say he doesn't stretch a kilometer.

Yes he can stretch multiple times the same way a person can put one foot in front of the other multiple times. He doesn't stretch instantaneously.

Not true, that's like you saying you can lift a car because one drove over you. Support is not the same as lift.

Not saying he does. And in this case, they are one and the same - you have your analogies mixed up. If a car drove over me and I held it up (like Reed did with the mountain) then that means I could lift a car, with difficulty at least - and surely if I could support a car, I could support a package that is 150 billion times lighter, no?

I can feel the love

Tsk, you missed out the scan when they went to grab a beer next :p. On a more serious note, that was just because Kleiser had made a disparaging comment in the heat of the moment about Cap's bravery. Earlier on, they were engaging in your standard "enemy witty banter" thing.

I placed that just to show how ruthless she could be, it followed the sentence mentioning she was ruthless.

Fair enough.

You looked up a wiki, you shouldn't be reliant on those when some place her at 50. She has effortlessly held up the upper stories of an apartment block and recently one shotted a re-empowered Enhantress cratering her deep into the ground while holding back, I think that trumps the shockwave scan

That makes sense, but I tend to use wikis to quantify power as they are usually based on official guides and whatnot. Based on things such as feats, Cap is easily 80+ tonner, but logically we know he's only 5-10.

Luke clarified that the speed could be up to mach 4.9, supersonic cuts off at 5 and and Jack can't fly.

Cool. Based on feats, I can easily say that Jack is over Mach 10 (given that he looks like a blur, even when observed by someone with super reflexes and speed), so they're on the same level too.

Jack can't fly? Says who? Escape velocity is 11 metres per second. He can fly juuuuust fine.

Gallery

Why would they be? that's like saying your guns count as pets.

I just figured, if they're autonomous and not equipment, they'd count. But okay, let's say they're not.

Sort of missing the point of the artillery, they fire at you. He did it during prep, I am allowed to create as close as 500 yards during prep, it's in the tournament rules, why I picked Ed.

Caps going to take aim with his rifle at people in cover while being bombarded?

Fair enough. And how big is this artillery setup? And how quick is it to fire, and how fast do the projectiles go? Almost all of my team are bullet-timers, and almost all are super-fast - so they could just go around.

Yeah, why not? I can post scans of Cap giving exactly zero f*cks and maintaining a cool veneer, even under fire.

I'll post feats if you could explain how in the hell this Thing is sneaking up on me when?

• I am bombarding the area
• a huge sand tidal wave is coming down the way
• I have T-masks to locate it
• Monet has incredibly powerful super senses can detect heat signatures and could even tell that Siren took a sharp intake of breath while in a hospital
• Ghost Rider has enhanced senses
• other things worth mentioning if necessary

and why is it that according to you Cap out in the open with a single sniper rifle is so damn intimidating when my dozens of instantly made artillery cannons and more if necessary, T-spheres, a massive sand tidal wave while in a canyon, GR2099 with futuristic weaponry aren't?

I could get the thing to assimilate a bird, and while your team is fighting mine, just fly around and sneak up on your team. Enhanced senses won't help, as the Thing perfectly mimics anything - and how is Monet or GR going to be able to tell a Thingified bird from a regular one?

He's in a canyon with thousands of tons of sand baring down on him.

He could wear the helmet but he didn't, you cannot retroactively place it on his head. As far as I am concerned it's just sitting at the starting area while your team rushed on ahead.

I pointed out earlier that the speed is up to 4.9

He can outrace the sand, go around it, spring up the side of the mountain, etc. Says who? Sure I can. I can adapt to your strategy just as you can adapt to mine. Hell, I didn't even know any of your team had TP before you told me.

How is Jack getting past the tidal wave that pulled down someone with beyond mach speed and much greater strength and durability than Jack.

Read above. He can move faster than the sand, or just go up the side of the mountain. Forward isn't the only way, you know.

Really? I was under the impression that he was faster but not as strong as Luthor.

He is slightly stronger, and given how based on feats (which I can show) Luther is easily 10-20 tonnes, yeah, Jack's within that range.

Reed can travel at Mach 1 now?

I have shown that to be far from true and already mentioned that she could grab it from him while he was mid stretch. Reed gets physically weaker as his mass is stretched out and none of his strength feats have so far competed with hers.

Heh, no, but Monet would be too distracted by the other fighting to catch up. What about the mountain feat?

Gallery

Reed casually takes on Dr. Doom, Carnage (a 50+ tonner) and the Thing (100+ tonner). He has excellent strength feats.

Jack is not reaching the team and if the angels where on his side in that 1000 yards of hell while lugging the trap he is not a threat against all of them

Addressed Cap, he would die when he pulls the trigger and sets off his charged bullets if he wasn't killed by the bombardment while trying to take aim.

I'll explain how he does. And even if the bullets aren't charged, 50. cals will hurt. He's far away enough to not be hurt by the bombardment, or he can simply outrun it.

You never put it on him, also in the last round you put it on Cap.

Yeah, and? Now he's wearing it. What does the last round matter?

How?

I have yet to see any mention of how you are getting around the sand wave and bombardment. I haven't even needed to mention what GR2099, Ed, the T-spheres or Clayface could do in a straight up fight

• I've shown how Monet can easily out distance anyone who has the package.
• Slingshot the package, Monet will catch it in the air, that's also not your original strategy
• How can you give Jack the package when he ran off in another direction doing something else, whats his best strength feat?

As far as I can see you have Jack on a suicide run up death canyon where he gets shredded and sucked deep into the Earth, we could get into details on the rest of the team but they are too slow we will cut to the real matter. Monet and Bison will then be aware of the packages movements with either the T-mask and/or her super senses.

You are attempting to have Mr terrific carry a 1 ton weight and Gambit up a up a 2 mile high wall away from the rest of your team where you will be intercepted by Monet, Bison who can fly and teleport and 6 or 7 T-spheres which have speeds that are much higher than the tournament limits. This is the most important paragraph.

I also left the big issue you failed to address for last, Bisons TK

You make the sand wave sound a lot scarier than it really is. Same with the bombardment. Unless the shells are flying faster than bullets, my team can dodge/tank them. The sand wave can be tanked by Reed, or my team can simply climb up the mountain with Reed's help.

• How so? Jack is on the same speed level as her, and she'll have her hands full fighting the rest of my team members. If Reed has the package, then we could simply use the launch method and then have Jack or Cap do the home run.
• You are allowed to change strategy, you know? And as I said, Monet will have her hands full.
• I'm presenting various scenarios. He has 10-20 tonne bench strength, seeing as how he is stronger than someone with 10 tonne strength,

Let's say we do have Jack do the "suicide run". A), you overestimate sand - couldn't he, you know, just run on top of it? And like I said, unless the bombardment is a) gigantic, b) has a huge range, and c) is very fast, he can dodge it or tank it. B), he doesn't necessarily charge head on - he's not a moron. He can zigzag, use trees for cover, run up the side of the mountain and flank your team - anything, really.

Again, Mr. Fantastic can carry the both of them, or he could carry just the package, or he could use the slingshot option - and you seem to be forgetting my other team members, as Cap can provide rifle support, while the Thing (as per my earlier plan) assimilates some of your team members, Kleiser also supports and engages in H2H with your guys - and you seem to really underestimate Gambit, as he can charge any item that isn't organic (like the T-Spheres) from a distance and explode them, or use his hypnotic charm to turn Bison (whose TK feats don't seem to be too impressive) to our side, and in general cause you problems. My plan can work any way - either Jack and the Thing commence frontal assault while the rest go around and deliver the package, or Jack sprints around with the package while the rest of my team takes out yours. Simple, really.

@iheartzombies92: @dextersinister:

Knowing Iheart, I know he is working on one hell of a counter. Just posting friendly reminders.