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#1 Posted by HigherPower (12399 posts) - - Show Bio

This rule is going to kill the site faster than whatever "legal authority" is responsible for its creation.

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#2 Edited by HigherPower (12399 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61:

Character Intro

Sailor Moon
Sailor Moon

Don't let her big blue eyes, candy-colored outfit and razzle-dazzle smile fool you. Tsukino Usagi, better known by her alias Sailor Moon, is the titular protagonist of the classic shoujo manga, Pretty Soldier Sailor Moon. What better way to respect the current age of feminism while paying homage to classic manga (similar to current appreciation for Devilman and Seiya) than to debate Sailor? She's a strong, independent, beautiful female warrior who doesn't take smack from nobody. And, considering her whopping price at 10 points, I think it's safe to say I paid a pretty* penny for her powerset.

Base

In order to keep this post compact and concise, I'll cut the skin and go straight to the bone.

For starters she possess the Maboroshi no Ginzuishou (translates to the Silver Crystal) which in Sailor Moon Act 6 was stated by Luna that it had the power to "easily" blow an entire star apart depending on it's use:

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Star level is actually pretty consistent and was reaffirmed by an occurrence in official translation where the power of the Silver Crystal was mistaken for an exploding supernova the first time it was released. In Sailor Moon Act 9, Usagi as Princess Serenity tanked a point blank supernova level explosion generated from her own Silver Crystal (it was compared directly to a supernova):

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In Act 26, Usagi channeled the power of the Silver Crystal with Chibi Moon and obliterated Planet Nemesis (along with the Death Phantom):

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There are multiple layers of context that makes that feat wayyy more impressive than standard planet busting. One of them is the fact Planet Nemesis was the true equivalent of a Black Hole:

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This would also give her feats of tanking black holes since Usagi was able to stroll around on the surface of Planet Nemesis without hindrance (not affected by the radiation either):

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Act 22; scans in reverse order

Also, considering nemesis sucks in light like a black hole, simply moving around the vicinity of it makes her FTL.

And another being that they destroyed Death Phantom (an intangible spirit) who's capabilities I will subsequently elucidate on. Additionally, Usagi survived attacks from the Death Phantom unimpeded and also survived the Death Phantom attacking her with the Black Crystal which is evil version of the Silver Crytsal (and the Silver Crystal has star level ranges of power). The Death Phantom dissipated multiple planets and Black Crystal could warp all of space-time:

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She also tanked an attack from Mistress 9 who was using the power of the future Silver Crystal:

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Super Sailor Moon

The form of Sailor Moon I'm using is Super Sailor Moon. This version was born from a permanent amp where she was boosted by the power of all her friends (the other Senshi) through the Holy Grail. The simple transformation of regular Sailor Moon into Super Sailor Moon was stated to release thousands of times more energy than an artifact known as the Taioran Crystal.

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Sailor Moon Act 33

Context:

The Tairon Crystal in it's "dimly glowing" state (i.e weakened state) was stated to have more power than pre-Super Sailor Moon, who I showed in my opener to have casual star level feats.

Sailor Moon Act 22
Sailor Moon Act 22

As a reminder, one of the star level feats I posted was the fact an explosion from the Silver Crystal generated light comparable to that of a supernova. An explosion which she also no-sold point blank.

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Sailor Moon Act 9

In case you're confused as to why this means the explosion had supernova level energy, a supernova is identified by it's luminosity.

In astronomy, luminosity is the total amount of energy emitted per unit of time by a star, galaxy, or other astronomical object.[1] As a term for energy emitted per unit time, luminosity is synonymous with power.[2][3][4][5]

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Luminosity, in astronomy, the amount of light emitted by an object in a unit of time. The luminosity of the Sun is 3.846 × 1026 watts (or 3.846 × 1033 ergs per second). Luminosity is an absolute measure of radiant power; that is, its value is independent of an observer’s distance from an object.

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The luminosity of an object is a measure of its intrinsic brightness and is defined as the amount of energy the object emits in a fixed time. It is essentially the power output of the object and, as such, it can be measured in units such as Watts. [astronomy.swin.edu.au/cosmos/L/Luminosity]

Sources are linked

Then there's the feat of destroying Planet Nemesis with Chibi Moon.

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Sailor Moon Act 26

I already some context that makes this feat leagues above standard planet busting, such as Planet Nemesis being a living planet that was fused with the conscience of an incorporeal spirit known as Death Phantom who had multi-planet erasing feats, and the fact Planet Nemesis was acting as a black hole. But this planet was capable of absorbing it's entire solar system into itself, and it increased proportionally in size.

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Sailor Moon Act 26

In the first scan, notice how far away Usagi and Tuxedo Kamen are from the planet. It looks as if the planet is far off into the distance, while absorbing the contents of it's surrounding area. Now look at the second scan. The planet become so huge that it appears as if it's right in front of them. This makes the diameter of the planet ginormous, and is also a testament to the energy it can absorb, which is important to note since Usagi destroyed it with an energy attack.

But the biggest kicker would have to be that the explosion of Planet Nemesis radiated as brightly as the Sun (brighter even) on a planet in another solar system.

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Remember what I told you about luminosity? With this I'd confidently assert that Usagi is second only yo Beerus in this entire tournament as far as firepower and durability goes. But she does have the benefit of being loaded with hax and hax resistances that I'll play selectively in my rebuttals.

Counters/Rebuttals

Not much to say here; you know your characters well, you use them well, and you're creative with your plan. You summarized your entire strategy for victory here so I'll address this:

So we will start off invisible with a bunch of illusions coming at you while planets at FTL speeds will be coming. The shockwave alone of a planet say the size of earth, ramming into an indestructible planet(meaning the shock will barely be absorbed) should be able to throw off Sailor Moon and she won't be able to ever find an opportunity to properly defend herself with the planets smacking her, the robot distractions and so on and so forth. Robot and Merlin will look for their respective opportunities to toss in a minimum tablet or a bomb inside Salior Moon's mouth for an incap. Robot will have several of his drones go for this attempt during the chaos.

Aaaaand that's all I got.

1. Invisibility

For starting off invisible, Usagi can sense energy to locate people so that won't make any difference to the match.

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You posted a lot of feats of sensing for Meliodas/Gowther/Gilthunder to show how Vivian hiding her presence from them is impressive (which would of course scale to Merlin to taught her everything she knows) but none of those feats remotely hold a candle to Usagi sensing and locating her friends on Planet Nemesis.

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Planet Nemesis has the gravity of a black hole and the radiation of a black hole, not to mention with the Dark Crystal at it's core, Nemesis warps space-time.

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Making the feat of sensing anything at all incredibly impressive. And generally embarrasses anything you've put on the table. Planet Nemesis itself is also invisible to the naked eye, you know, being a black hole and all that absorbs light meaning you can't see it anyway.

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2. Illusions

Illusions are pointless because I have Mind Immunity.

3. Planet Toss

The collisions, destruction, and/or explosions of planets would go unnoticed by characters who tank the concentrated energies of supernovas. So comparatively, this commotion would be like mosquitos to Usagi.

4. Your Offense

The only thing I saw you assert offensively is this: "Robot and Merlin will look for their respective opportunities to toss in a minimum tablet or a bomb inside Salior Moon's mouth for an incap." This is a much weaker version of Geekryan's own internal damage argument. At least Geek's characters could cause internal damage with their powers or with TK, making the battle quick draw and reliant on speed. Are you seriously suggesting your characters come up to me and toss something in my mouth? Morals off Usagi would open the battle with a blast that envelopes the entire solar system and erases everything in it....

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#3 Edited by HigherPower (12399 posts) - - Show Bio

@defiant_will:

In terms of Killua's strength, there is only one feat I need to show to fully convey Killua's might. Contrary to his physical appearance, Killua is an absolute unit in terms of power. This is best shown when he opens the 5th gate of the Testing Gates, which weighs 64 tons.

Garou breaking out of Gyoro Gyoro's TK bind urinates on this feat. We know for a fact that his adaptability allowed him to become strong enough to the point that binding him with TK was no longer a viable option for Gyoro; seeing how she admitting as much herself, before Garou figured out her weakness when she resorted to throwing projectiles at him. I showed why that was important, she casually moved and super compressed hundreds of tons of rock (visually) in her match with Tatsumaki.

Since Gon could push 4 tons, Killua knew that Gon would be capable of sending his opponent flying with a casual push. This suggest that in the Hunter X Hunter verse, 4 tonners should be casually capable of accomplishing this feat. And as stated previously, Killua is a 64 tonner, meaning Killua is capable of much, much more than this from a striking strength perspective, 16 times stronger than this level of strength.

From what I've seen of Garou, he really doesn't have the durability to hold his own against Killua in a drawn out fight. His best durability feat is tanking a small building level attack from Rover, and I think that a barrage of 64 tonner strikes would be able to tax this quite effectively.

Bold claim. Unfortunately you vastly overestimated what 64 metric tons entail. That's 128,000 pounds. Metal Bat cracking a high-rise a apartment building in half with his swings and levitating an entire parking lot of cars with shock-waves delivers much greater force than that in PSI (pounds of force per square inch.) Several hundred tonnes at least.

Garou deflected dozens of his swings long before he upgraded to the version I'm using currently.

Next up is Killua's speed, which is consistently hypersonic, even in base. He was able to evade a sniper bullet from 57 centimeters away. These same bullets were fast enough to travel hundreds of feet in seconds. And Killua evaded them without even knowing what direction they came from.

Garou while poisoned, weakened, and worn out from constant battles and injuries, deflected thousands of minigun rounds from a few meters away, each of these bullets being strong enough to tear through trees proving their speed superior to regular minigun rounds. Assuming a minimum of mach 2-3 for the bullets, Garou deflecting that many with his hands (until DG ran out of ammo) is a high hypersonic feat that he completed while vastly weaker than even his standard levels. And his adaptation lets him adjust to speed over the course of a battle.

In that same arc, Killua reacted to a point blank explosion that caught him off guard.

Don't see him reacting to anything there. Being clearly tagged by and having your entire body enveloped by an explosion isn't what I consider a reaction feat, and neither should it be for you or anyone else.

Godspeed afforded Killua the combat speed to utterly humiliate Youpi, not giving him the chance to move or make a sound while landing dozens and dozens of blows.

Killua rushed Youpi after he already paralyzed him with Thunderbolt moments before. Something he did via sneak attack. This is perhaps the most misleading bit of information you've given since it wasn't a real blitz as Youpi couldn't move. Evidence? The fact that he couldn't react to an assault from Knuckle either, and you literally scaled his speed to Knuckle because he reacted to him in the same fight.

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Hunter X Hunter 280

To cement Youpi's impressive speed, he reacted to a head on attack from Knuckle, transforming back into base form before setting up for a punch.

Yes the same Knuckle who also landed numerous hits on him before he could "react" because Killua had frozen him with Thunderbolt.

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Hunter X Hunter 281

Needless to say, Killua's Godspeed form makes him hypersonic +, blitzing characters way above the reaction speed of his base form.

So this is complete BS if you're using scaling to Youpi as your evidence.

To make thing even worst for you, Killua can make his footsteps completely silent to the point that someone with enhanced senses such as Melody could barely even hear them:

What's the use of this here? Killua isn't ambushing Garou; they start 30 ft apart and visible. That's 10 meters bruh.

And then there are Killua's claws, his bread and butter. These babies are sharper than knives and can cut peak human level characters to ribbons. And while Garou has adapted to piercing attacks before, he isn't adapting to being cut into shreds by Killua's claws because... he will be dead. Killua doesn't use his claws to stab his opponents, but instead to slash them into pieces, which increases the chances of killing them in shorter amounts of time.

On the whole, Killua can take several approaches to this fight while Garou only has one option: a frontal attack.

Garou has Bomb's martial art which allows him to do the same but to greater degrees and greater ease. Since he's manipulating the air which means he doesn't need to make physical contact for it.

This is the most obvious way that Killua wins. Not only is it in character for Killua to use Godspeed right off the bat like he did against Youpi, but Killua's Godspeed form is also way over Garou's paygrade from a speed standpoint. Base Killua is on Garou's level speed wise, and Godspeed Killua has blitzed people tiers above base Killua's level.

  1. He snuck up on Youpi, Meleoron was on his back which hid his presence, and he fell from the sky while Youpi was in the middle of attacking Knuckle.
  2. Base Killua's speed is demonstrably inferior to feats Garou completed while WEAKENED, which essentially means <<<<below base.
  3. Your scaling chain for Godspeed Killua blitzing characters "tiers above" his base speed was a faceless waste of time. He blitzed the same Youpi who got blitzed by Knuckle, the very character that you're stemming Youpi's speed on.

No, Killua will abuse his electrical abilities as well. He will stun Garou with his electric bolts, in a similar fashion to what he did to Youpi. Garou has tanked 800,000 volts of electricity? Well even Riehlvelt can generate a million volts of electricity with his whips, and unless you think Riehlvelt could stun Youpi as long as Killua did, then it should be obvious that Killua's eletrcity is packing insane levels of voltage. This will allow Killua to create an opening for attack that he can abuse with his superior speed.

This is almost insulting, I countered this in my opener and you just repeated the sentiment I already provided an argument against. Killua has only ever stunned people who have no feats of resisting being electrocuted, and Garou is someone who's shown adaptation. Even if he's paralyzed, he'll adapt to it in a matter of seconds, and you need to prove that Killua can stun someone who ignored nearly 1 million volts of electricity already.

Plus

unless you think Riehlvelt could stun Youpi as long as Killua did, then it should be obvious that Killua's eletrcity is packing insane levels of voltage.

This is amateur scaling. What kind of logic is this? There's literally no proof that Youpi could resist being stunned by 1 million volts of electricity. He has no feats of resistance to anything of the sort. You're making a groundless assumption. There's no proof that Killua can generate similar outputs either, all he did on his end was tank it.

Through Zetsu and his silent step, Killua is more than capable of sneaking up on Garou and tearing him to shreds with his claws.

How do you sneak up on someone who's standing 10 meters in front of your face?

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#4 Edited by HigherPower (12399 posts) - - Show Bio

@defiant_will: Well, since it seems we're dispensing formalities, I won't dawdle... You know of him, but do you really know him? The Human Monster? If not, then-

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"Wolfman", "The Hero Killer", "Human Monster", "The Hero Hunter"—Garou goes by many names, has had many changes in appearance, and is ever-growing in power. But one thing about him has stayed unshakably consistent: He is doubtlessly one of the most frightening adversaries to face in battle, both within the One Punch Man verse and in matches like this. The credit goes to his infinite resilience and bottomless potential for growth. A man who carries all the bitterness, evil, and contempt fermented by villains everywhere. Hit him hard? He'll come back stronger, only to hit you harder.

The Assessment

At first glance, Killua may appear to possess comparable physicals to Garou while maintaining an edge in versatility due to his lightning-based Nen powers. This is a facade. A hollow pretense waiting to be exposed.

Garou has every thinkable physical advantage including of raw strength, which could have been easily circumnavigated through skill regardless. On top of that, he has resistance to or countermeasures for multiple forms of damage, so Killua's extra combat options are mowed down to zilch. Leaving this a pretty one-dimensional battle with only one outcome in this scenario. A dead 14 year old.

The Receipts

A Garou who hadn't fully recovered from a near death experience ignored electrocution from an overhead power line. Up to nearly 800,000 volts of electricity are coursing through these at any given moment of time, and Garou simply used the wires as a slingshot.

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Now I have no doubt in my mind that Killua can generate a much larger quantity of voltage with his electric-based attacks. But the name of the game is adaptation. Since Garou has already encountered being electrocuted by hundreds of thousands of volts before, his body is familiar with this nature of damage in large, sudden amounts. So unless you're arguing Killua one-shotting Garou with his Yo-Yo's or a thunderbolt (the latter which canonically is only used to stun his enemies, leaving them open for further attacks) then Garou is adapting past it.

In order to prove that though, you would need to show Killua's electric attacks being strong enough to one-hit kill someone who can already no-sell hundreds of thousands of volts of electricity, overcoming their own resistance. I know for a fact you can't do this, but in the event you're able to fabricate a long line of argumentation in place of feats, rest assured as I have adaptation feats waiting for you.

Just as a taste, I'll post a solid feat in this regard—Garou overcoming Gyoro Gyoro's psychokinetic bind, being able to move not long after he was completely immobilized. This also allows me to believe that Garou also has superior raw strength to Killua even at 64 metric tons.

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.

It was within the same arc that Gyoro demonstrated the capability to move what's easily over 100 tons worth of stone and rubble and later multiplied the strength of gravity in an area 300x.

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His body's response to actual damage is even greater, but you'll be seeing more of that later.

With long-ranged attacks now out the picture, Killua's only real ways of hurting him are going to be CQC based, which unfortunately is going to be nothing but a world of hurt for the young Zoldyck. Excuse my laziness, but I've already written up a brief elaboration of my character's skill before:

Garou was trained by Silver Fang, the S-Class rank 2 hero in OPM who owned a prestigious doujo and taught the Fist of Flowing Water. Garou mastered the style and defeated all of Bang's other students with relative ease.

https://imgur.com/a/u3b3a5z

This was done before entering the Super Fight Martial Art tournament and winning. He also has stomped martial arts masters and many trained and skill fighters.

But those are just accolades. Garou's skill is formidable for three major reasons:

  • His ability to memorize and then replicate a fighting style/martial art he sees.
  • His adaptation and adjustment to his opponent (before growing stronger)
  • Fist of Flowing Water and it's ability to use his opponents power against them.

Fist of Flowing Water is actually an interesting martial art, and it's mechanics were elaborated perfectly on later by TTM One Punch Man #48-49.

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TTM tells us that Garou repelled, nullified and redirected all of his attacks. He then says that no matter how powerful your attack is, if you can't hit him it's useless, meaning that this technique (Fist of Flowing Water) uses advanced skill to make Garou's opponents harm themselves instead of him, using their own attacks, power and strength. It is even stated that this return deals double the damage, and Garou targets vital spots and joints to incapacitate physical functions and progressively weaken you.

I think this is pretty cool, because it basically dictates that unless you're faster than or more skill than Garou, he'll alwaysdominate you in close quarters combat, specifically hand-to-hand. All of your punches and blows simply won't land on him. He'll be parrying and redirecting your strikes back at you with double their original power through raw skill, and it will be aimed at your vital points like your neck and sternum. If you read the scans you'll know I'm not lying about this, nor reaching or overselling. TTM explained it pretty gracefully. So in CQC, I genuinely don't see an actual way to circumvent Garou's technique without having a speed advantage (meaning he won't be able to react to your attacks) or a skill advantage (which means you have superior technique and better fighting prowess than him).

However, Garou is decently fast for his tier, and having more skill than him will prove incredibly difficult as you will later see. Garou's reactive adaptation is also worth a mention. A few pages later in the fight (after Garou smashes Mumem Rider's face and taunts the followers to join), Tank Top Master attacks Garou in a visible rage, and Garou knocks him out with one hit without even turning around to look at him.

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He tells us that he figured out TTM's fighting style, and after TTM drops the rest of the match is rather one-sided. Garou blitzes and beats the crap out of all the remaining heroes and followers of Tank Top that were present. Garou was also able to copy Bomb's martial art after it was used on him, and in the webcomic he crossed it with Bang's to form an entirely new technique. His skill also endows him with a high level of battle precognition through move and muscle reading.

Garou's speed is also convincingly hypersonic

The Conclusion

I covered my bases in every combat area that isn't physical stats like speed, durability and striking power. This is to show that Killua will be fighting a losing battle irregardless of them.

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#5 Posted by HigherPower (12399 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61: Would you like to start us off since you have prep?

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#6 Edited by HigherPower (12399 posts) - - Show Bio

To be candid, while I haven't resigned myself to Luffy being quad mach or anything like that, him having micro-second reactions is not at all invalid and there's nothing overtly wrong with this feat. If any disagreements arise, they should be disagreements about the consistency of his reaction speed when he's on guard, since the feat itself is as straightforward as it gets.

Specifically I think the argument that the feat is impossible is beyond dumb and makes no sense. "How did he dodge the explosion if it was omnidirectional?" Like what?

Luffy is encapsulated in explosive goo, the goo detonates, but when it does, it's literally not moving because his perceptions are that fast. So fast that the explosion doesn't travel up to 0.03 cm, which means it's virtually motionless. The reason why this feat is impressive at all is because Luffy statued the explosion. Within the timeframe that it would have taken the flames to move that incomprehensibly small distance, Luffy was able to remove himself from the explosion (through means that literally do not matter) before it could burn him.

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#7 Edited by HigherPower (12399 posts) - - Show Bio

@maestromage:

Counters

There's not much to counter outside of your refutations to my strategy. But your refutations do rest on a point that needs to be corrected.

Another important ability is Minority World. It's kinda complicated so I'll just let the manga explain:

TLDR it's basically complicated probability manipulation lol.

Minority World does not manipulate probability. It reverses the behavior of free atoms in a function with that of bonded ones. All the applications of Minority World that we've seen do not provide any realistic defense to draining. The shutting down of organs, redirection of attacks, speeding up of regeneration, and the scattering of atoms are all really nifty techniques, but aren't the applications that would allow this to be argued. Midora has never used Minority World to absorb energy, so if it gets drained for him there's no evidence that he can use MW to absorb his lost energy back.

On top of that, there is no evidence against draining being viable, while there actually exists evidence in the opposite favor of draining being able to work on him. Which leads me directly into Food Luck...

This is another probability manipulation ability, but unlike Minority World which is very "scientific" so to speak, Food Luck is a much vaguer "luck" manipulation. However, it is potentially Midora's best ability, though It does have a limited number of uses.

In Toriko #392, Neo-Acacia used his consumption ability to absorb Midora's Food Luck along with that of everyone else immediately present. He did it in a manner that I would consider pretty identical to draining.

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Eating the Food Luck spirits is a great feat for Acacia, but it also served as an opportune moment for Midora to reverse the action with MW. In the bottom of the first scan, Midora was able to tell exactly what was going on because it already worked on him before. Either he didn't, or he can't affect intangible and/or abstract things with Minority World. Considering Solar has the ability to move all types of energy, draining is honestly a surefire way to put him down.

Rebuttals

My plan against your initial strategy is simple. Midora will simply use one or both of his probability manipulation abilities to avoid being drained. Even more so given his insane speed, Midora should easily be able to react to being drained and just stop it.

I already countered this, but I want to supplement my stance with additional reasons why this is doomed to fail. First for Minority World—it is matter manipulation, which is a field that Dr. Solar dominates in, and don't forget that Solar has been equipped with The Almighty here seeing as he was mind-linked with Yhwach.

So not only did Doctor Solar already foresee this exact occurrence happening in the future, he can see matter on the atomic level, change it's properties, and view the things inside of atoms (sub-atomic). So by the time the battle starts Doctor Solar will immediately know exactly how Minority World works and how to counter it.

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He's done far more complex things than inverse the behavior of atoms. Since the very beginning of the superhero career, back during the early Gold Key era where Solar comics were just a collection of Phillip's escapades with his arch-nemesis Nuro—and he was so inexperienced and weak that he had to manually convert his body to energy and kept radioisotope pills anytime he was low on energy which meant death—he was capable of performing one of the most impressive sub-atomic matter manipulation feats I had ever seen.

In Doctor Solar, Man of the Atom (1962) #7, a comet was unnaturally headed on a direct collision course with Earth. The scientists at Atom Valley took notice of it's irregularities and stated that it behaved like a guided missile. It contained large concentrations of iron inside, which Dr. Nuro used to magnetically control the comet with his "cosmo-magnet".

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After that, Solar streaks into space, isolates the comet's head from its tail, and then transforms into solar wind at 10 million mph to snuff it out...

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...before doing the impossible. Not having enough energy left to destroy the comet (remember, this is early 60s Solar who was written hilariously weaker than later counterparts; he ran out of energy very quickly - besides, he's tapped into Dvinity's Hyperspace here) Solar instead performs an ingenious maneuver and circles the comet, transforming into quanta-bundles of energy that operate as sub-atomic particles (protons and neutrons which comprise atoms).

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He then literally goes into the comets core and transmute the iron in the comet into non-magnetic metals by altering the central nuclei, and subsequently knocking four protons and four neutrons from the iron atoms to transmute the comet into titanium.

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As the comet was non-magnetic, it was not under Nuro's control anymore (albeit it still fell to Earth being in its orbit, but Solar stops it in another crazy way which is a feat for later). He obviously has many better feats than this, but the reason I chose to show this one is because it was performed by a significantly depowered Solar from the early 60s, which was already his absolute weakest incarnation. This feat demonstrates—with utmost clarity—the precision and efficiency that Solar is capable of on the fly with matter manipulation. Having The Almighty only further increases the ease at which he can counter Minority World in all its forms.

Midora's speed doesn't mean anything here. He'll notice he's being drained obviously, but he'll be slower by the time the process starts. I'll discuss this more in a bit.

Another thing to note with the draining feat you showed for Solar, I'm pretty sure the nature of the necromantic chaos energy meant that when Solar opened the portal it automatically went through the portal. I'm not suggesting that he can't drain energy or anything silly like that, but this particular instance you've shown wouldn't necessarily translate into being able to drain Midora, and it being the only draining feat that you've shown doesn't particularly help you either.

I expected more of you than to parrot the interpretation of a more knowledgeable user on discord. After I posted the paragraph I also told you explicitly not to use this argument, because the portal was actually draining those who got boosted on the Chaos/necromantic/death energies. In the scan I posted from Chaos Effect Omega, it was literally stated that the natural flow of the necromantic energy "was being sucked into the other arc" and Doctor Mirage stating that his powers were "starting to fade".

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...You can only ask so much from a draining feat, and on the very next page, Doctor Mirage reverted back into his phantom state because the energy was drained from him and Shadowman also states that the power of Chaos was fading from him too.

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So this "particular instance" I posted actually does show several characters being drained, which is more than enough for me to argue it working on Midora, but it seems you were smart enough to not argue against Solar being able to drain at all. If portals won't sell it to you, Solar can detach his body parts and have them collect energy for him.

Like when he fought an alien wearing the X-O Manowar armor in Solar, Man of the Atom 1991 #7. He was running low on energy from the attacks of the alien and sent his hand off to the Sun to gather more energy as he fought the alien on Saturn.

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His arm came back having drained huge amounts of energy from the Sun, and Solar was united with the energy and stated that he was 10x stronger than before. He then used the energy to fire a giant blast/explosion that was larger than Earth when scaled to the size of Saturn.

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Solar can also make himself (or in this case, parts of himself) invisible by refracting light or through other means. So his limbs being scattered across the battle field are going to be undetectable.

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Plus Solar has regrown his head after it was destroyed in a single page so the loss of limbs won't hinder him.

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Additionally, an aspect of Solar that took physical form (Solar the Destroyer) has drained multiple entire stars in single panels. So Midora's energy reserves would get licked up pretty much instantly. Here Destroyer drains a "powerful Sun", (something he'd know a thing or two about) and one-shots a planetoid.

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Then drains an even bigger Sun (which he states is the larger than any star he drained before, which would include our very own Sun) and one-shots an entire planet with a blast. All three scans are from Solar, Man of the Atom (1991) #35.

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Midora is getting drained.

So with that said, I'll just say Midora blitzes and one-shots your entire team, though I am sure you will bring some reason as to why he can't.

Honestly, this is just extremely lazy. Blitz and one-shot? Really? After all the detail I went explaining how The Almighty factors in with prep here?

Every move you can possible make, we saw it before you did it, and planned our actions accordingly.

If Midora opens the battle with a footstep to the left, we know. If he opens with a footstep to the right, we know. If he starts by unfurling his long ass tongue, we know. There's nothing you can do that we haven't preemptively countered in this battle, since we effectively have full knowledge on not just your powers, but your actions. We also have a way to put you down with draining traps littering the battlefield.

Besides, you can't even put down three of my four team members. The only ones you can kill are Yhwach and Hyperstorm, but the former can bring himself back to life. Solar has 3 different types of intangibility, and Divinity has regenerated his body from a head in a page.

Speaking of Hyperstorm, I haven't posted scans detailing the role he plays yet so I'll do that now. Hyperstorm is the son of Franklin Richards and Rachel Summer's, and supposedly one of the most powerful Omega level mutants ever. Hyperstorm is Fantastic Four villain with sub 10 appearances, so I wouldn't expect you to know much about him since he is rarely talked about. He's a conduit to hyperspace and wields something called the Power Supreme, which was explained here in Fantastic Four (1961) #408.

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It was stated by him and confirmed by databooks to be superior to the Power Cosmic, being "amateur".

Fantastic Four (1961) #406
Fantastic Four (1961) #406

Not an hyperbole either, considering Doctor Doom constructed a device to drain him later in the arc and failed woefully.

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Considering Dooms' prep and draining capabilities I would say this is impressive. The F4 eventually had to coerce Galactus into helping them defeat Jonathan by causing a confrontation between the two. Galactus fed on his hyperspace energies and they were locked like that forever, since Hyperstorm's energy reserves are limitless and Galactus' hunger can never be satiated.

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With Solar and Divinity tapped into this source, they will have indefinite stamina and energy to perform whatever they want forever.

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#8 Posted by HigherPower (12399 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt: Yeah a Monday in a regular May week vs a Monday during Christmas Break. It´s not hard to see why.

I think we agree on everything else.

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#9 Edited by HigherPower (12399 posts) - - Show Bio

@juzacloud Meteor Laser being a barrage of blasts doesn't mean anything... It's one cohesive attack that was performed casually and not a repeat of attacks. There's no rule against him using that technique in the thread.

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#10 Posted by HigherPower (12399 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt: The weekend actuals weren't released which is the point of that quote. But regardless, TFA made 900 mill domestically after 168 days and 24 weeks in theater, and Endgame is approaching 700 mill in just 12 days. The second weekend drop is what you're talking about, but it isn't indicative of much and neither is the competition.

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https://www.boxofficemojo.com/showdowns/chart/?id=avengersvstarwars.htm

Besides I don't think Endgame needs to beat TFA's domestic gross in order to become the highest grossing movie. Them hitting 800 mill is good enough since they're still making numbers worldwide.