Hellos

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@vjbthe3:

Age of Ultron was her at her literal weakest we've seen, her telepathy has been improved upon several times over. She couldn't even use telepathy at a distance and had to walk right up her opponent, where as now she's using telepathy at a town wide scale subconsciously and with a wave of her finger can control multiple soldiers... again while still manipulating a town.

AOU has her 2nd best mind hex feat where she compells entire buildings of Sokovians to evacuate the city. Her best one would be the WandaVision series.

Wanda still overpowered Thanos, who overpowered Thor

She used her telekinesis to hurt him / restrain him. MCU Thanos without the Infinity Gauntlet literally has no ranged capacity beyond throwing his double sided glaive at her. Endgame Thor is also a lot weaker than he normally is to boot, namely why he went from one-shotting Thanos with the IG to nearly being killed by his own weapon fighting Thanos without the IG.

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The only reason why this might be incredibly one sided is because I don't think Wanda has the capacity to defend herself against Thor.

She could hex his mind, but even in Age of Ultron there was a delay with its effects and required her brother to cause a diversion. She probably just going to get floored by a toss by Mjolnir.

And considering Thor was able to stand up to Malekith's reality stone / aether, whatever hex she's trying to craft probably wouldn't even have an immediate effect there either.

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#3  Edited By Hellos

@khael said:

@hellos:

Glad we're just going to pretend Loki doesn't have the powers he has - because the Hulk grabbed him that one time Loki was shouting at him.

Because he doesn't. After that The Avengers caught him and there was nothing he could do about it. If if he was at the very least on Strange level, he would've curbstomped the whole Avengers by himself.

You have no answer to Loki outside "He can't so the stuff he can do."

Because he didn't

And Wonder Woman refused to use her limit-breaker on Doomsday decades after she used that power on Ares. So do I assume she can no longer start glowing and blitz folks at hypersonic speeds? Of ourse not, CIS / PIS isn't much of an argument.

We've seen Odin depower/ turn Thor into a human being by yelling at him. Loki did the exact same thing to Odin during the events of TDW and cursed Odin's mind. This specifically stated as the reason Odin dies in the film. Thor even tells us how Loki turned him into a frog or about that time Loki turned into a snake to stab a young Thor.

These are things Loki can do - these are things We've scene Loki and Odin do - so the question becomes why bother arguing otherwise? Because Hela, a character with likely more experience with magic wasn't susceptible to it (especially given she constantly undoing any and all damage done to her physical form / quite literally using her power to break out of dimensional prisons?) and because in Avengers when they were still experimenting with what magic was in the MCU they opted to have the Hulk thrash a cocky Loki?

2

Odin's prison for Hela was a pocket dimension. He removed her from the universe to stop her and she was breaking out of that prison before the Valkyrie we'e sent to die against her.

She escaped, great. We didn't even know how she did it.

The movie is fairly explicit - she's just that powerful.

It's even mentioned if they leave her in Asgard she's just going to become powerful enough to leave under her own power without the bifrost and kill them all.

3

It' goes beyond 'strength' when character can instantly repair her physical form, bust pocket dimensions and conjure weapons and all over things on the fly.

Which doesn't counter anything if Loki could simply turn her to snake or frog, or strip her from her power like you said.

It does if she's controlling the matter in her body (She instantly recovered from any damage in the film, when she is damaged) and the fact of the matter is she is also able to use magic (namely why she's able to materialize giant spikes and weapons out of nowhere to plunge into Surtur and raise the dead with the flame.

Thor is the only person in his family so far to be a complete novice in magic.

4

Trolling isn't an argument.

Then this means, you have no argument.

And here we go again.

5

Doesn't pass the smell test.

Question: Did Doomsday or any his attacks move at lightning speeds?

Probably speed of sound.

Answer: A resounding no. If you want to believe slow brick like Doomsday is now this hyper-sonic speed machine that can't hit Batman more power to you.

Because Batman is that good and there's nothing you can do about it. This isn't Batbale, come on now.

Uhuh.

6

Irrevelavant discussion on how a subsonic toon Batman outran toon DS Omega beams that hit a scrub parademon instead.

Which requires a great speed that Batman should not have possessed according to your logic, but it doesn't matter since Batman defies logic at regular basis.

It doesn't require great speed because Toon Darkseid's beams literally have no speed feats outside being outranned and dodged by Batman.

CW's Flash can casually catch bullets out of the air now - yet he tripped on subsonic marbles - should I assume those marbles move at faster speeds than bullets or that PIS happened?

7

I must have missed the part she was powered up like she was in her movie against Ares. But I'm glad Goku is SSJ even without the blonde hair.

She never even transformed or anything. She just unlocked her full potential, she can't just lock it back again.

Well, given her staggered lack of any display of that same power or glowing effects - I doubt she can't power back down - because she does.

If we took Wonder Woman from her one speed-blitz scene and pit her against Doomsday - she'd chop him to bits.

But she didn't, mainly because the movie that took place decades ago was released after BVS and it vastly expanded on the power she now has.

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@hellos:

The Grandmaster after seeing the fight immediately shift to Thor's favor after the Hulk was thrashing and over-powering him - used the control disk to end it before his champion was KO-ed. The Hulk by no means after those two hits that had him visibly shaken / dizzy was looking to go another ten rounds with the guy who was flooring him in single hits.

Again I've seen the movie twice and this fear everyone keeps talking about just wasn't there. Pain? Sure, though I don't know what "shaken" means to you since Hulk stood up and faced thor literally seconds after the hit, and even later on in the movie Hulk shows no real fear or change in his actions towards Thor.

I'm not sure if we watched the same movie. There are three phases in grandmasters reaction. The initial surprise of of Thor actually retaliating and sending Hulk across the arena. His smile and reassurance after Hulk starts rag dolling Thor, and the end where he doesn't want to risk it and quite calmly knocks Thor out with the disk.

Fight ends with both of them unharmed and on their feat so, I mean, if you believe that Thor would have won the fight easily after his lighting charge then go for it, we will never really know since the movies won't ever display a conclusive win, but literally everything in the movie hints at them being on par with one another , be it through comedic means or any other.

The Hulk was never afraid, but he was certainly angry. As for "shaken" I'm refering to the fact after two consecutive hits to the Hulk was floored on the ground and struggling to pick himself up. The second hit from Thor clearly had a significant impact. That's why the crowd begin cheering for Thor, who despite being savaged by the Hulk just before (in the smash scene straight out of Planet Hulk), was fine and the Grandmaster watching this fights ends it with the control disk - it was not a fight the Hulk was going to win. Every character's reaction in that scene confirms it.

I guess we didn't see the same movie. The fight ends with Thor being paralyzed by the Control Disk gets the most ridiculous Superman KO punch from the Hulk.

The fight itself gave us a good indication of how strong each of them where compared to one another, whuch was pretty much:

Hulk (Not Enraged) < Thor

Hulk (Enraged) >>>> Thor

Hulk (Enraged) <<<< Thor (Odinforce)

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#5  Edited By Hellos

@haveatthee said:

That's a bit of a stretch. The Odin Force has never been addressed in the movies. it was intimated in the first film when he fell into a coma.

Odin simply tells Thor that he's not the "God of hammers" but the "God of Thunder" and Mjolnir was simply meant to harness and focus his power. So during the Hulk and Hela fights, Thor is still learning how to channel his power without his hammer.

Not really to be honest with you. Every time this new found power has been used - we have an image of Odin at the center of it. I'm not sure if that actually Odin or the Odinforce talking to Thor (though I'm inclined to think to some extent are one & the same in the MCU) - but there's this clear relation between this new power and Odin. Otherwise it makes no sense to have him center of it (at least until Thor is alone in the field).

That and Valkyrie after seeing this power in the arena tells Thor his power is like Hela's and he gets it from Asgard.

The hammer was Thor's training wheels (as I guess it might have been for Hela) but that's still a hammer empowered by Odin and he used that same hammer to strip / return Thor's power from him in the first film.

Thor has probably had this power since TDW with his visit to the norns in AOU potentially awakening it (namely the repeated visions of the future).

@theacidskull said:
@the_knight_rhoden said:

I personally interpreted the fight as being that Thor would have won had the Grandmaster not interfered.

After all, that was the first time I legitimately saw real concern on the Hulk's face. Never before has the Hulk done anything besides get angrier and angrier as he gets hit, except this time Thor's lightning strike made him lose all that momentum.

Also, I'd say Thor was trashing Hulk before he unlocked his heritage too, since, he sent him flying along the arena walls, sent him flying with a hammer strike, and hit him with numerous body shots.

Overall I'm of the opinion that Thor got the better of the Hulk in that fight, 7/10.

I've seen the movie twice and I still haven't seen this look of concern everyone's talking about. A look of pain sure, but nothing that would show or indicate fear. And we've seen multiple moods in Hulk during many fights. Laughter, anger, concern and he even gave abomination a "I'm tired of your shit" look right before the final square off.

And how was Hulk getting thrashed? Thor was getting good hits in, until hulk got angry and overpowered Thor with one hand on the hammer as Thor was holding it down with both of his. Then Thor unlocked his heritage, gives Hulk two sweet slugs, after which the latter gets up immediately, and the fight basically ends with both opponents facing each other on their feet. Honestly, you can make an argument for both on who would have won.

The movie even makes fun of this dick measuring contest consistently for the rest of the movie.

The Grandmaster after seeing the fight immediately shift to Thor's favor after the Hulk was thrashing and over-powering him - used the control disk to end it before his champion was KO-ed. The Hulk by no means after those two hits that had him visibly shaken / dizzy was looking to go another ten rounds with the guy who was flooring him in single hits.

@laiks stake said:

@hellos:

I'm happy they retconned the whole gods/aliens things, even in the Black Panther trailer the villain ( I think was the villain ) speaks about aliens and gods as different beings.

But about the Odinforce, Hela was using all the MCU version of the OF ( the Asgardforce ), and now Asgard is destroyed... but they said Asgard is the people and the asgardian people still lives, if they escape Thanos in that ship and Thor rebuilds Asgard, maybe we see him with Odinforce/Asgardforce.

Not sure how she world since Odin had it since Thor 1.

Thor's the only one talking to Odin (post death) and Hela couldn't seem any more disconnected from dad post imprisonment ("would have liked to seen that")

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#6  Edited By Hellos

@khael said:

@hellos:

Strange reveals in this movie how ridiculous magic is in the MCU, and Loki's got just about every power in the book based off these movies. He can read minds (Valkyrie - Rangarok), control minds (Selvig - Thor, Avengers), erase memories (Odin - TDW, Ragnarok), illusion casting (Every Movie), Invisibility (Thor - tries to lift hammer), mirror walking (Thor), transmute ( Ragnarok - Is mentioned to have turned Thor into a frog) and I'm sure there's more random abilities he can literally stroll onto the battlefield, but most of them don't even matter since he can prevent anyone here from seeing anything because he controls what they see.

So Strange is a good space manipulator and Loki is a good illusionist.

He was so OP, that he stomped Hulk in The Avengers movie, right? Blame Marvel for that lmao.

Glad we're just going to pretend Loki doesn't have the powers he has - because the Hulk grabbed him that one time Loki was shouting at him.

You have no answer to Loki outside "He can't so the stuff he can do."

Exactly, she's powerful physically.

Did you not see the movie?

Odin's prison for Hela was a pocket dimension. He removed her from the universe to stop her and she was breaking out of that prison before the Valkyrie we'e sent to die against her.

It' goes beyond 'strength' when character can instantly repair her physical form, bust pocket dimensions and conjure weapons and all over things on the fly.

It's not limited by the plot man, he's just straight up a jokesters. He also grabbed Thor in the Avengers. What did he do? He chose to stab Thor with his pocket knife instead of turning him to frog or something.

Loki was clearly traumatized because he was so helpless against Hulk

Trolling isn't an argument.

It's a reaction feats and Doomsday tagged her.

Doesn't pass the smell test.

Question: Did Doomsday or any his attacks move at lightning speeds?

Answer: A resounding no. If you want to believe slow brick like Doomsday is now this hyper-sonic speed machine that can't hit Batman more power to you.

That means Batman also has a good reaction speed. I already showed how fast is Doomsday in my previous post. You didn't complain when animated Batman dodged omega beam.

Irrevelavant discussion on how a subsonic toon Batman outran toon DS Omega beams that hit a scrub parademon instead.

So you're saying that she was weakened in BvS? That's just ridiculous.

I must have missed the part she was powered up like she was in her movie against Ares. But I'm glad Goku is SSJ even without the blonde hair.

But he is fast.

But no where near as fast as you're suggesting.

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#7  Edited By Hellos

@khael said:

@hellos:

No one in the DCEU is a lightning timer and getting hit repeatedly Diana isn't much of a feat.

Diana is in fact a lightning timer. Doomsday tagged WW once before she could swing her sword which is an amazing feats.

You can literally post the video of Ares charging himself from lightning from the sky and the blast a subsonic attack of Diana all day and it still wouldn't make her a lightning timer.

But even if she was, it wouldn't matter because Doomsday didn't need to move at lightning speeds to hit her - because he's not fast and she wasn't moving that fast in the scene. If you have a problem with that, blame Zack Snyder.

The vast majority of fights we've seen with DCEU Wonder Woman have been subsonic and assuming everytime something hits her it has to be moving at the speed of lightning is crazy.

He reacted Superman's bullrush at 1:25 and 1:45. All legit, even caught Superman once.

And these are still subsonic speed feats so what is impressive about them when Superman and Wonder Woman hit and dodge Doomsday multiple times?

Are we just assuming everything here is super-sonic or hyper-sonic despite Doomsday's heat-ray vision being slower than Batman's grappling hook?

Or is Batman now a lightning timer too?

He is just evolving after absorbing the impact and radiation

How is the inside of your body crystalizing evolution?

People keep calling this stuff evolution when it' just reaction his body has to being damaged - namely why he has a spike for an arm after gets cut off.

It exploded, it wasn't even in space, it was just slightly above the cloud. The government themselves was pretty sure that the nuke was going to explode, it just wasn't going to cause casualty.

Superman was literally in orbit after being by the Nuke. You don't just float when go above the clouds and the Nuke had no atmosphere to explode- when it' that high its just really hot plasma.

Which isn't more durable than regular Thor, only has better control over his lightning.

Against the Hulk:

Thor goes from being repeatedly pounded on, to easily beating the Hulk down to the point Grandmaster uses the control disk to immoblize him.

Against Hela:

Thor goes being limp in her arms after being stabbed repeatedly to wrecking everything in his way.

You don't suddenly start hitting harder or being able to take significantly more punishment by being sparky - there was a dramatic difference in Thor's performance - sort of like Wonder Woman getting all glowy in her movie and displaying physical ability she did not have prior in the film.

Exactly why he would've use it if he could

Welcome to the world of comic books.

Its a magical place where Barry Allen can catch multiple bullets easily out of the air and then slip on sub-sonic marbles under his feet.

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@khael said:

@hellos: IIRC, Loki did nothing impressive in the movie.

So best to just ignore everything he can do.

Strange reveals in this movie how ridiculous magic is in the MCU, and Loki's got just about every power in the book based off these movies. He can read minds (Valkyrie - Rangarok), control minds (Selvig - Thor, Avengers), erase memories (Odin - TDW, Ragnarok), illusion casting (Every Movie), Invisibility (Thor - tries to lift hammer), mirror walking (Thor), transmute ( Ragnarok - Is mentioned to have turned Thor into a frog) and I'm sure there's more random abilities he can literally stroll onto the battlefield, but most of them don't even matter since he can prevent anyone here from seeing anything because he controls what they see.

Loki's pretty OP, blame Marvel.

Yeah, Loki had 2 chance to stand up to Hela but he didn't do anything, instead he made a joke about the get help tactic which shown that he has 0 chance. Look, the point is, Loki did nothing against Hela, he became like Batman in that trinity vs Doomsday scene. Of course he brought the key to beat Hela (much like Batman) but he did nothing directly.

Issue is Hela was really powerful in Ragnarok.

She was literally breaking out of the cage Odin put her in before he passed - it required all the Valkyries to die to keep her there a little longer.

He turned wine to snakes, if he could turn anyone to snake at any time then he wouldn't be such a coward. He also should've stomped Hulk if that's the case. Hulk's style of fighting is no different than Doomsday yet he stomped Loki, no problem

Okay, the wine bit is on point.

Loki's wide range of abilities being limited either plot (because if he had wanted, the Hulk wouldn't have been able to grab him at all) or against characters way more powerful than him doesn't suddenly make his powers disappear.

WW reacted to lightning, she moved after the lightning was fired (even said few words before actually try to block),

Blocking a blast of energy of Ares that obviously was not moving anywhere close to the speed of lightning isn't much of a speed feat. And even if it was, she never even used that god speed on Doomsday (otherwise she would have cut him to pieces, because he was a slow brick that couldn't hit Batman)

much like she did against bullets. It automatically puts her as lightning timer.

She's a bullet timer, sometimes. The only time Wonder Woman shows that kind of speed was when she god-clocks herself out on some German soldiers, not against Doomsday (mainly because the power she displayed in WW has yet to be used outside of WW).

Doomsday's feats are all subsonic, it' crazy to say he's super fast when he isn't.

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He isn't destroying Sokovia without help. He is not beating all those titanium machines and fighting vibranium Ultron.

He was trashing the Ultron bots before the power bump in Ragnarok - which literally has him beating the hell out of the Hulk with single hits.

So yeah, he pulls off AOU scenario again without any difficulty since no one here can hurt him and he can trash everyone. MCU before Ragnarok could crack vibration, after it he's Ultron's helpless here.

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Ultron, because Valkyrie can't hurt him unless her sword is significantly more powerful than I think it is.