HeavenlyDarkDragon

Hmm... Has Comic Vine changed the logout option location? Can't find anywhere.

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HeavenlyDarkDragon

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@lvenger:

Not really. No. I've been following what people sometimes hint are key moments in the Rebirth.

To say that I've been following Superman, would imply that I'm actually reading the comics or at the very least following up on the reviews about Superman titles specifically. I've been doing neither.

I see reviews about Rebirth in general. Specially those that talk about all comics not just those of Superman. I found out, that it helps, in the overall evaluation of the quality of what's been released.

Which indeed shows that people are becoming more drawn to DC Comics, but not so much Superman specifically. In that regard, Batman still wins by a long shot. Even when referring to Superman I've seen a preference for the JL comic and no so much about Superman himself.

And of course there are those that bring up Superman specifically and bring up praises, questions and even negative critics. So it's well balanced. But as there are those that bring up Superman, there are also those that bring up, the Lanterns, Batman, Flash... What I rarely see, is anyone showing interest in Wonder Woman, Aquaman and Cyborg. Those three are really losing the attention of the readers.

I see more comments about Jessica Cruz and Simon Baz than even Superman.

Of course I'm not referring to the Vine only. But also other smaller sites and forums.

Where I see that people are more willing to speak their minds without getting crucified in the process.

So yeah. I know what's been going on with Superman in terms of highlights. But if you were to ask me if I read any of those comics I'd say, that 99% I haven't read them.

Also I believe you noticed that I no longer comment on the previews or reviews of any Superman or other comic of DC, mainly because if I'm gonna comment on them then I would've had to read them. Which I don't. That's why I focus mainly on questions or polls, posted by forum members.

I'm done reading DC titles in general, until this Manhattan and whoever else business, is explained and handled for good.

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@primebonnick said:

Gave it a go didn't like it should have just made them separate and got it over with. Still glad to old fans got their supes back hopefully they stop whining now. Still not feeling the kid though maybe he will grow on me but i'm not reading supes any time soon.

That's almost like asking people to stop being stupid. That's simply not gonna happen.

If Jon actually becomes more powerful than Superman, someone will complain.

If Jon for some reason becomes less powerful than Superman, someone will complain.

If Jon, starts to suffer from the kryptonian-human incompatibility, and for some reason loses all of his powers, someone will complain.

If Jon, kryptonian-human nature, makes him develop powers Superman doesn't have, someone will complain.

If Jon, doesn't manifest every kryptonian power, someone will complain.

Been on that train long enough to know, there's no pleasing the entirety of the Superman fandom. Specially if you throw new stuff to the hardcore old school fans. That's like their kryptonite. Writers try to do something different, and the old school hardcore fans will be all over his ass.

And that's also most likely the reason they chose to give Jon, this level of power and the same powers as Superman. They already did the hybrid clone with the Tactile Telekinesis. They already did the orphan kryptonian boy, born to some very nasty people, being adopted by Clark and Lois, that later on went to suffer from being born in the Phantom Zone. They already did quite some years ago, a story named The Son Of Superman. Where we got basically what they're doing with Rebirth and Jon, only differences were that that son of Superman and Lois, only started to manifest any powers during puberty, and still he wasn't as powerful as Superman. So now they're going with the new old stuff with a twist.

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It feels a bit weird that Superman and Lois have to bring in Batman to do the analyzing and smart-guy stuff, even as a Batman fan. Almost feels like they're trying to make him part of Superman's supporting cast.

I'm guessing "Genius MacGyver Superman" will never ever come about now?

It's acutely worst than you think.

Sometime ago Superman took Jon to the Fortress to run some tests on him, after what I believe was an incident where he fell off a tree and hitting the ground he became unconscious.

Here you go...

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Then. Sometime later Damian Wayne kidnapped Jon to run some tests on him, and Superman almost got into a full blown fight with Batman and Damian. Where Batman lands this pearl...

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

"Human diagnosis may find something kryptonians missed"

So. What's supposed to be a technology from a super advanced race, couldn't detect what human machines would show. This is so insane on so many levels, I'm just glad I stopped following Super related comics, or things like these would really bother me.

As it's I've been simply following up on reviews, done mostly by unbiased people. That know how to deliver all the info without splattering their fanboyism into the reviews.

And honestly I still don't get why Superman always needs Batman to tell him stuff. It's been like this for decades now. Superman that was supposed to have the super-brain, rarely uses it. And Batman funny enough, is an expert in so many fields that if he like Luthor, dedicated 1/10 of his time to fixing the world problems, he'd achieve more as Bruce Wayne than he ever achieved as Batman.

So that's that. At the time this was bad enough. Until Bruce once again delivered another bomb, and educated a always clueless Superman into things he should know by himself.

It's stuff like this that sometimes makes me wish for the old Silver Age days. When Superman did his stuff on his own. When it wasn't needed to have Batman show how little Superman actually knows.

I don't know if the writers are actually aware of it, but it's really insulting to have a guy with the brain power that surpasses any supercomputer, be the clueless guy in the room.

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@rdclip:

Yes. It was kinda weird though. It was hinted that because pre-Flashpoint Supergirl ship that kept her in stasis for decades, and had yellow sun emitters. That because she had effectively been soaking up yellow solar energy for as much time as Superman. That made her more powerful than Superman.

But later DC simply explained that because Superman had been raised on Earth, and had to learn to control his powers as they appeared and developed. That Superman simply had a level of control that Supergirl didn't have.

They show some hints that she was more powerful, when for example Kal was tracking Kara, while she was flying and she apparently gave him the slip. Later when Luthor uses Black Kryptonite to slip Kara into two. One representing her normal mind, the other representing her inner desires. When Superman and the JL had to track them down, good Supergirl became infuriated with Superman and started punching him while saying "Give up! Everyone says that I'm more powerful than you." and Superman knocks her ass to the ground in one punch while at the same saying "Don't believe everything you hear!". He then goes on to say "You never realized that I had to grow with these powers, learn to use them in order to not hurt anyone by mistake. You however, never went through something like that, and so all you know how to do is simply use them. But hear this. I could have found you, or stopped you anytime I wanted to."

So again, DC started out with something, and then they saw how little sense that made, and fixed it later on.

Maybe they'll fix Jon. Maybe the classical gene incompatibility will eventually kick in, and Jon now supposed greater potential, will be dropped to below Superman levels. As it should be.

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@rdclip said:

@knight101: @heavenlydarkdragon: Was the change a result of the legal battles between DC and the Siegal and Shuster heirs?

I never liked the idea because the change was so dramatic all at once. I can only imagine that it was some weird change enacted for legal reasons (like when they killed off Superboy during Infinite Crisis supposedly for legal reasons)

There were no legal reasons. It came down to money and readers demands.

Superman Blue comics sales, after a while, started to drop like a failed NASA rocket test. Also most Superman readers were not happy with a Superman they saw as being inferior to his solar based powers.

If the sales numbers had been good, I bet Superman would've gone on for more time, but join money issues with reader issues, and Superman Blue got the boot quite fast.

There were some rumors about problems inside DC that were never confirmed. So I can't say if it was anything legal or not. I always believed it was the combination of the four factors. Two were general the other two were more personal to me. So the first two you can already guess, its money drop and fans complaining. The other two was the quality of the stories and the simple fact that Superman was in my opinion weaker with his energy based powers than with his solar based powers.

If he had the type of control showed by Manhattan or Captain Atom, then I believe that Superman would've worked out a lot better. Because if he had that type of control not only would he still have all his solar based powers but now more evolved because of the energy aspect of them.

Instead of making a better Superman DC made a inferior one.

I remember talking with a friend of mine at the time, and he said that he believed that everytime DC wants to "revitalize" Superman, they make some change about him that makes him inferior in some way, even if it's the fact that Superman becomes simply too OP, to trick the fans to want to keep the same version. Never really evolving. And in a way kinda like saying "See. You wanted change and now this is what you got. Do you still want this, or do you want the old version back..."

Which looking back, all these years, it's effectively what DC as been doing with Superman.

Which of course there are those that don't see it that way. And while they are free to do so, it does shows some naivety towards what Superman is, and what he should be. The Superman we got is not a 21st century Superman. This Superman and the one introduced by John Byrne in 1985 are basically the same. Change the power levels, and the dialogues a bit, and you got basically the same Superman.

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@saintwildcard: @orangebat: @rdclip:

Here you go...

No Caption Provided

... Batman giving us some very strange information.

That's why I said that if the meta-gene had been included in the affirmation/explanation, it would actually make some sense. Seeing the meta-gene together with kryptonian genes could in theory point to Jon developing his powers not only faster but also other powers kryptonians don't normally have. Like it was the case of Connor in Pre-Flashpoint.

In Pre-Flashpoint we all saw many times being hinted or hypothesized that Connor would eventually surpass Superman in terms of power. Although other writers didn't agreed with that and thus Connor was more like close to kryptonian power levels, but never quite there.

That's why Supergirl dislocated his jaw with little effort, and he almost ended up dying the first time he got beaten by Superboy-Prime. At the time Lex, that saved Connor's life, said that his hybrid nature, made him more vulnerable to "gene exaustion" meaning that if he pushed his powers to their limits for too long or took too damage, because he was only half kryptonian his body would not be able to fix the damage.

Even the supposed kryptonian-human genetic incompatibility, seems to have been forgotten by DC. All versions of Connor had to deal with it. Even Lor-Zod aka Chris Kent, that was a pure blood kryptonian, that had gotten his DNA changed because he was born in the Phantom Zone, had to deal with rapid aging issues.

But Jon... They already want to make him more powerful than Superman. And it as already been shown that his powers, like heat vision, can easily hurt Superman. So if someone wants to kill Superman, I guess the easiest way right now would be to brainwash Jon and use him to make that happen.

Which to me is a very foolish move from DC.

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Well. It's even worst than you think.

If you do a search on the Vine or any other site, you'll see that Superman and any other kryptonian, gets their powers fueld by sunlight.

The accurate way would be to actually say Superman or any kryptonian, gets his powers from the sun. How he did it, could remain a mystery. After all they don't explain how the Flash draws power from the Speed Force, or how Wonder Woman connection to the godly powers works. It simply works.

So the real explanation should be that Kryptonians get their powers from the star closest to them. More so because we've seen writers show what I just said countless times.

More recently we've seen it with Zod and Injustice Superman.

With Zod he was being held by Amanda Waller in a subterranean prison, in a cell with red solar energy emitters. The moment the power went down, Zod started to regain his powers, even though he had no sunlight available.

With Injustice Superman, he was being held in a cell with red solar energy emitters. The emitters didn't even went fully down, just dropped to 30 something percent, and Superman was able to punch his way out of his prison.

We've also seen in the Godslayer arc that when Superman is sent to planet orbiting a red star, he loses his powers in a manner of seconds.

So all that stuff about kryptonians being solar batteries and crap like that, is constantly being shown by writers that that isn't the case.

Given Superman current power levels, drawing power directly from stars, supports 90% of his feats. Drawing power from sunlight supports 0% of his feats.

Also that whole thing of the Silver Age Superman, it seemed more like he drew power not just from the Sun, but other sources of energy also. Almost like if a kryptonian was like a Central Battery like that of the Lantern Corps, only instead of drawing power from Emotional Spectrum, he drew power from basically every yellow star in the universe.

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It was a patch job.

They didn't want to risk removing everything of the New52, so they kept a few things while basically bringing back the pre-Flashpoint timeline.

The new Fortress design seems cool. Way better than the pre-Flashpoint design that was basically a copy from Christopher Reeve Fortress.

The Kents are still dead. Which I believe it was meant to not deviate attentions from Clark as being a family man. If they had brought back the Kents, we might see Lois having to share Jon with Martha and Jonathan. Either way I believe the Kents would've been a good addition. Not having them around is really so Clark and Lois have to deal with the issues on their own.

And let's face it. It resolves the problem of the rest of the heroes so easily accepting a stranger amongst their midst, when they had a bad experience with Martian Manhunter. That would suggest caution, which we didn't saw happen. And it also solves Lois age issue.

But they are already creating new problems. By having Batman say that Jon, because he's a hybrid, his power level should already be superior to that of Superman.

That to me was a huge mistake. Jon, like Connor, should grow in power slowly. If they are already painting him to be superior to Superman just because he's half human makes absolutely no sense.

DC could've been smart and said that Jon possessed the human meta-gene, and that that together with the kryptonian genes made Jon potentially superior because of that mix. But noooo... "He's half human. That alone makes him superior." typical John Byrne line of thought.

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@jakai:

Yes. At a first glance the bio-electric aura does seems to offer that hypothesis. But the problem lies that the bio-electric aura can't be described as a organ. Even we humans possess a bio-electric aura, in the real world. It's very weak and can only be read and even seen through special instruments. It's something natural because our bodies also generate energy through biological processes.

Also my point wasn't about kryptonian physiology not being able to process the necessary energy but more like given that they're humanoid in size plus the solar energy that arrives on Earth everyday for let's say square metter. Then even 2000 watts is a little bit of a stretch don't you think.

Once I did the rough math about how much energy would a kryptonian body need to possess to do things like move the Earth. And it came down to something around 1.4e+24 Joules at any given moment. So even 140 gigawatts doesn't come close to the necessary requirements.

That's the problem with sunlight or solar energy. It can be easily debunked. Unlike with The Flash and the Speed Force that simply can't be debunked, or the Lanterns and the Emotional Spectrum because again it can't be debunked. I mean, it can't even be explained less alone debunked.

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@jakai:

Good work. You really sumed up pretty much everything that as been theorized the most, inside and outside comics.

Problem is that it doesn't answer any real questions.

First of all. The power level. A kryptonian power level is simply too high to be explained as simply being solar energy absorption. Let's face it, there's simply not enough of it arriving on Earth to explain it. In one issue in Superman Unchained, Bruce Wayne tells Clark that he absorbs at any given moment, around 140 gigawatts of solar energy. Now, anyone that knows anything about astronomy and astrophysics, knows that isn't possible.

We also see a very interesting thing. Regardless of a kryptonian being underground or simply without any direct contact with sunlight, their power still works and recharges all the same. In the New 52, Superman bench pressed the entire mass of the Earth in a machine able to simulate it, for five days straight, without any sunlight. How could he, if he was in facility close to the center of the Earth. No sunlight there, that's for sure. In the crossover between Justice League and Suicide Squad in Rebirth, they had Zod in a underground prison, in a room emitting red solar energy. The moment the emitters went offline, they started to freak out because Zod was starting to gain his power back. Again with no sunlight available.

And then there's the inconsistencies. In the Godslayer arc, when Superman tries to save Lex Luthor, and their Boom Tube is hacked and sends them to a planet orbiting a red star, Superman immediately starts to lose his powers. So much so, that seconds after he arrives there, he could only fly for less than a minute and that was it, no more flying. But more recently, in the Justice League comic, while trying to stop this Tempus guy or whatever, the being he was trying to stop says he had started to flood the room with red solar energy, to which Superman then says that he might have prevented his powers from recharging but that he'd still keep fighting till the very end.

So, as you can see. A lot of inconsistencies. Mainly because DC doesn't create a unified theory for Superman. Each writer has the freedom to do what he wants and so no real explanation is actually valid seeing the writers themselves never come to terms. And also all of their theories suck. Mainly because none of them accounts for everything that Superman or any other kryptonian has in terms of power.

Now. It leaves the fans to come up with anything remotely resembling a good theory. And in this case I already said my piece in great detail more than once. So I won't be doing that again. Just focus on the main points.

POWER AND POWER LEVEL:

The solar absorption theory sucks. Mainly because it can be debunked quite easily. So if fans still want it to be about solar connection then another theory as to be created. One that fits all the bills.

A good way to explain a kryptonian power and still linked it the Sun, would be to say that kryptonians have exotic elements that make up their bodies atomic constitution. It could even be sayed or hinted that they seem to be non radioactive isotopes of kryptonite. Elements that existed naturally in Krypton's geological composition and thus in all kryptonian lifeforms. And that these elements in organic beings, it creates a form of Quantum Entanglement to the star closest to them. Meaning that it wouldn't be sunlight that fueled their powers but the star itself. That they were able to harness and process energy directly from that star, by means of a form of a biological Quantum Entanglement.

Now, this could be used in two ways. Once exposed to red solar energy, the connection would break and thus the body would be unable to recharge. Or, once the link is broken, then all the energy goes with it, and kryptonians are left powerless. One or the other, not both. And not how the writer decided.

As for how Superman would recharge his powers if he was outside our solar system. It could be either explain that the link worked regardless of distance, like with ‎Kimiyo Hoshi (in the pre-Flashpoint her powers were said to be connected to the star Vega, that was several light years away), or that kryptonian physiology harnessed the part of the Cosmic Radiation necessary to keep the powers active.

As for how Krypton came to possess such exotic element. You can use your imagination. Either it could be explained that the kryptonian deity Rao, was actually a member of a Galactus type of beings, and that they had all ascended to a high plane of existence, and that Rao, being the last one of his kind left to ascend, he chooses a planet where he infuses some of his energy on the planet itself. Or that some cosmic event like a hypernova blast, hit Krypton when it was still forming. Adding to its atomic composition the necessary energy and particles to create said exotic matter.

This basically covers all basis. Even the vulnerability to kryptonite.

Because as you might kow, things like the photonucleic effect are completely unreal. Also the basis for its explanation is also completely wrong. Ask any nuclear physicist. Atoms don't become more energetic as their subatomic parts (proton and electron) become further apart. It's actually the opposite. They become more energetic when they become closer to each other. Also the biological process you're describing isn't anywhere similar to plants. Because plants don't create energy. They store energy. And Superman body clearly creates energy because there's no way he could get the energy needed to fuel his power from sunlight. Bio-electric aura or no aura. That process simply defies the laws of conservation of energy. Placing Superman power process as unnatural and thus they might as well say that kryptonians get their powers because each star emits a different kind of magical energy.

POWERS:

A kryptonian power set is simply too complex to be delegated to multiple processes. So the best way give some sense to it, is to introduce what should be a natural thing in powered kryptonians.

When we look at the power set, no matter how powerful Superman brain is, it couldn't account for feats like, being able to single out a unique sound in the entire world and be able hear it. How many times have we seen Superman being able to hear a specific sound from basically across the globe. Such a thing should be impossible. It doesn't matter how sensible one's ears are.

The way he uses his "X-Ray" vision. First of all if it really were X-Rays then Superman would be mass murdering people simply by using said power, if it really was X-Rays. The other thing would be that Superman could not really use said energy to see through walls, seeing that X-Rays don't really bounce back from objects as optic radiation does.

Heat Vision. How is it that he's seens controlling such a power with such efficiency. He can make the beam as wide as a nuclear explosion, or as small as a laser pen. He can control its intensity to what can only be described as a nano-level of control. So. How can he know exactly how much energy he's releasing, and further more, how can he control how much energy he releases. It certainly isn't a biological trigger/process.

And the same goes for basically all of his powers. How does he determine how much he sees, how much energy he releases, how he even flies. Especially the flying power. We know it can't be gravity control and we know it can't be because his body generates its own gravitational field. Superman body simply doesn't posses the mass to have such a thing. And even if he did, if I was able to generate a gravitational field around myself that gravitational field would not allow me to fly, if anything it would increase my own gravity/weight. Because gravity is attracted to gravity. How is it that when he's sleeping next to Lois he doesn't simply kill her! His physical strength is on basically godlike level. So even if he could control his physical strength while he's awake, how can he control it when he's asleep. Or better yet, when he shakes someone's hand or types on his computer how can he so effectively control his level of strength.

But the answer here agains seems quite simple. To explain how all of his powers work. Psionic Energy Manipulation!

Because without the psionic element, all of Superman powers would need to have special triggers in the form of organs that gave him the necessary sensory input to use them as he does. Meaning that exposure to the yellow sun would have to create new organs. Specific organs for specific tasks. Which is of course ridiculous.

As you said so yourself. The energy Superman gets enhances his physical aspects. And thus all of them should be enhanced. Including his brain.

Now. Although things like perfect memory recall and thought processing speed, are both part of Superman abilities, it still doesn't seem we're looking at the entire picture. We've had cases where we saw Superman process in a matter of seconds what the most powerful supercomputer on the planet would take years to do. So a kryptonian brain is also enhanced. And thus the use of Psionic energy. And Psionic isn't psychic. Psychic referrers to specific ability, a psychic power like, telepathy or telekinesis. Psionic referrers to the energy the mind possesses. And we've seen other characters which powers are explained as being psionic in natre and that can do many things. Three simple examples being Martian Manhunter in DC Comics, Thanos and Monet in Marvel. Monet power is described as being of psionic nature but here's her powerset... Super-strength/speed/resistance/stamina, telepathy, telekinesis (which she uses to fly of course), and genius level intellect. Reminds you of someone?

So we could simply explain that kryptonian powers are a result of the physical and mental enhancement created by the energy their bodies possess, having a psionic element controlling that same energy. Of course with kryptonians because they are never showned training their minds or exploring what their brains can do, we could simply say that their powers are a result of using the psionic element at a very low level. Near subconscious. This in turn would explain why Superman can only do a certain amount of things like firing energy beams through his eyes and not for example his hands. Because he sees with his eyes then mental conditioning only enables him to release the energies he uses for heat and x-ray vision in a specific way, in this case his eyes. It also explains why he can only freeze things with his breath. And how he can control the energy he applies to anything, at such a level of control.

Powers like Heat and X-Ray visions could simply be explained as psionic mimicking of what he sees. Superman can see in the EM Spectrum from Microwaves to Gamma Radiation, but because his brain is never trained and thus uses what is natural to it, then his mind through psionic means, shapes the energy inside his body to mimic some of the energies he's able to see.

As for how he flies one can call it a form of tactile telekinesis or the enhanced used of one of his senses. Human beings and thus most likely kryptonians, possess not 5 senses, but 9. Our ability to feel heat or cold and its different levels is called thermoception. So the enhanced use of this sense could explain the freeze breath. We also got another sense that allows us to simply know where our body is in relation to what's around us. So a enhanced use of that sense, could also explain the ability to fly. Even our ability to feel disconfort or pain is also a sense.

So this is my interpretation and my theory of how Kryptonian powers should be explained.