GreenScar1990

Hulkverines #1

@crytodaddykid:

What I find to be funny is that you're taking the words of someone else's post, believing that it's the truth/fact of the matter about The One Below All when it's not, and then acting like you've read any of the issues or even follow, know of, or acknowledge what the writer Al Ewing has stated about The One Below All & The One Above All and their connection/relationship when you clearly haven't.

Okay, genius, first off The One Below All doesn't feed off suffering, rage, hate, or any negative/evil energy or emotions. It is evil incarnate. It is suffering, rage, pain, hate, and everything negative and evil! TOAA is able to influence everything in creation, and TOBA is capable of the same as it is the dark reflection of it, thus why there's good and evil in the first place!

They're two omnipotent beings, two opposing forces, constantly acting at all times within all the universes, multiverses, omniverses and beyond. Benevolence and Malevolence. Good and Evil. Creator and Destroyer. Life and Death. Negentropy and Entropy. All of these and more.

And just like if you send one nuclear missile to counterattack another, there's still gonna be an explosion and fallout. The constant clash of these two omnipotent beings is the explosion, whether it's TOAA counterattacking the malevolent influence of TOBA or vice-versa. And when one or the other manages to get the tiniest bit more of direct influence out into any world, galaxy, universe, multiverse, or omniverse... that's the fallout.

There is always a balance.

@bowdowntodaddy:

Except The One Below All is omnipotent and omnipresent as The One Above All, who created everything. They're mirror opposites of one another, operating on a scope too massive for anything or anyone to ever comprehend.

They're responsible for influencing everything in existence from infinite universes, the omniverse, and beyond. They're above and beyond everything. It's a constant struggle between the two regarding their influence on everything in creation.

The One Below All is evil incarnate, thus influences all that is malevolent in existence, while The One Above All is good incarnate, influencing all that is benevolent in existence. Creator and Destroyer, forever locked in a battle/contest of such scale, magnitude and power that we cannot even begin to comprehend. It's quite literally the unstoppable force meeting the immovable object. Despite this, each manage to cast a small portion of influence, benevolent or malevolent, on the Marvel Universe and everything else in creation.

@bowdowntodaddy:

No, it is not the Green Scar incarnation that Red Hulk "killed" during Jeph Loeb's Defenders/Offenders arc. It was Banner-Hulk, as in the persona from Hulk's time on Jarella's world of K'ai where Banner was fully in control of the Hulk's body & mind. MASSIVE difference. It was also controversial due Hulk being killed with a trident when he has a healing factor and withstood far worse, including Skaar impaling Savage Hulk through the chest with his sword in Greg Pak's Planet Skaar storyline that took place around the same time.

But, judging from your post, you know little to nothing about Hulk comics and are here to basically just troll.

I have a theory, one that makes more sense, especially given all the clues Al Ewing has given us regarding the Hulk. Especially the words the narrator speaks, drawing comparisons to the Hulk/Banner from Immortal Hulk #11-13:

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What is Hell?

There are places in this universe made of red rock and flame.

People by horned goats and fanged serpents. Built for the torment of souls.

But these places are not Hell.

They are only places.

Hell is not a place.

Hell is the absence of God.

Not atheism.

A thing cannot be absent if it was never there.

To be truly absent, God must have once been present.

God must have a face, to turn it away from you.

But is there another face that looks upon you when God's has gone?

Does God have a shadow?

Does God have a Hulk?

And what would that look like?

What is the anger of God?

We are told it is in the flood, or the storm.

Insurance men say that these are God's acts, against which we are unprotected.

But that is the irrational side speaking.

The rational side - science - says it was our doing after all.

We poisoned the air. We boiled the sea and filled it up with plastic.

We decided hating each other was more vital than saving each other.

We were given a miracle world, and we broke it. Perhaps we thought God would give us another.

It won't work that way.

What is God's anger?

God's face, turning away.

Leaving us alone with what we've done.

Does that answer the question, though?

We can speak of the anger of God.

But does God have a Hulk?

"Hulk" -- something large, unwieldy.

A word pulled from the vocabulary of a frightened soldier to name the indescribable.

The primary definition is a rotted ship.

Vast and strong, but gutted.

Empty of treasure.

A shell.

There is a concept in the Qabalah called the Tree of Life.

A map of ten spheres or emanations describing both creation and mankind's spiritual path.

But the tree has an opposite side. A shadow side.

This is known as the Qlippoth.

Qlippoth, meaning shells.

In Qabalah, the highest point on the tree of life is called Keter. The crown, set above all things.

It is compassion beyond comprehension. The unity of the divine.

But on the opposite side if Thaumiel.

Where that great unity is split into contending forces, each existing at the expense of the other. Refusing to be as one.

I am no scholar. But if the Qlippoth is a reflection then perhaps this shadow-sphere is the lowest point. Below all.

Some would say such a realm has a single demonic representative. A single ruler.

Satan, the Adversary -- he whose spiritual pride led to the fall.

But this is a place without unity.

And some say there are two.

What is the Devil?

In modern culture, the Devil is clearly defined.

He is the slanderer, the whisperer in mankind's ear. Tempting us to sin against God.

To break the rules by which our betters define good and evil.

All evil, then, springs from him.

We are told.

From an early age, we learn dichotomy. Day and night. The rational and irrational.

The healer and the destroyer.

On one side, then, we have the creator.

The maker of ineffable plans, who works only for our good.

The mysterious and heavenly father.

And against the father... his monstrous ENEMY.

The breaker-apart.

The force of CHAOS.

Perhaps the earliest naming of the evil force is the Zoroastrian deity ANGRA MAINYU.

Literally the "chaotic spirit," or "destructive mind."

That which is defined by opposition to good.

In the Zurvanite tradition, Angra Mainyu and Ahura Mazda, the lord of creation, are the twin sons of Zurvan, who is Time itself.

Angra Mainyu tore free of Time's womb and thus, as first-born, inherited creation of 9,000 years.

Perhaps this was the earliest conception of the Fall of Man.

The idea that the world we are born to is tainted. Ruled by God's opposite.

Interestingly, Angra Mainyu has it is his power to create good works.

He simply refuses to.

Evil is actively chosen.

Perhaps that is what defines the Devil, in the end.

That moment of choice.

But there is another Devil.

In the Old Testament -- the Book of Job -- is the first mention of an entity bearing the name Satan.

Meaning "accuser," or "adversary."

As one of God's angels, Satan is given permission to test Job, God's most pious servant.

A test that destroys all Job has. All that he is.

A test that scours him down to the soul.

Job demands an answer from God. He demands to know why he was hurt so much.

Eventually, God responds.

But he does not speak in human terms.

The 19th-centry theosopher Anna Kingsford likewise speaks of Satan as an angel of God.

In her writings, he is the sifter of souls.

The accuser, who brings judgment on all who fall short. The angel of wrath.

He is the keeper of the door, who holds the power to cast into Hell...

... and he is the breaker of worlds.

What is the Hulk?

We have spoken of the wrath of God, and of the form that might take.

We have spoken of which angel might deliver it.

And we have spoken of the Tree of Life. Of the ten spheres, the emanations of the divine.

And one of these emanations is called Geburah.

This is the emanation of strength and severity.

Of power in judgement.

It is watched over by the Archangle KHAMAEL, the burning judge of all evil.

And the fiery angels of the Seraphim.

This is the face that turns away.

The fire that burns away evil.

Burns it to its very root.

But there is another side to Geburah.

A Qlippoth.

Which is called Golachab.

Where Geburah is strength in righteousness, Golachab is strength in destruction.

Strength for strength only.

Strength without pity.

Strength without judgement.

The strength of MONSTERS.

It is all too easy to fall to the Qlippoth.

To become a creature of hate.

To use anger only to create pain.

To lose balance.

Geburah is called the left hand of God.

But the right hand is mercy.

And so I ask again.

What is the Hulk?

What will the Hulk be?

The accuser or the adversary?

Khamael or Satan?

Is he of Geburah or of Golachab?

Is he man or monster?

What will you become Bruce Banner of Earth?

Who are you?

And who am I?

I'll speak to you again.

In due time.

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God and Devil. Man and Monster. Savior and Destroyer.

All of these aspects have been a part of Al Ewing's Immortal Hulk since the beginning. And not only that, they've been a part of the character since his creation. Greg Pak definitely displayed the concept of Hulk being a Savior and Destroyer during his run, as did Peter David before him.

Anyway, what I'm trying to get at is this. In my theory, Hulk is not just empowered by The One Below All. He's also empowered by The One Above All. If you really delve into it, take in all the clues, especially the duality aspects that Al Ewing is focusing on with the character, you may find that I have a valid point.

The One Below All is as powerful as The One Above All. They're mirror opposites of one another, influencing everything in existence from infinite universes, the omniverse, and beyond. They're above and beyond everything. It's a constant struggle between the two regarding their influence on everything in creation.

The One Below All is evil incarnate, thus influences all that is malevolent in existence, while The One Above All is good incarnate, influencing all that is benevolent in existence. Creator and Destroyer, forever locked in a battle/contest of such scale, magnitude and power that we cannot even begin to comprehend. It's quite literally the unstoppable force meeting the immovable object.

Further proof of this comes from Al Ewing himself in regards to TOAA and TOBA being equally omnipotent and opposing forces. And that, much like if TOAA to use it's full might, TOBA's own might would be equally as devastating and powerful. So, I think it's a good thing that TOAA is around to stalemate TOBA and eliminate/counter-balance it's power and influence, because if not... everything would be screwed.

That's a bold, false assumption to make out of nowhere. He's the dark reflection of the One Above All, who created everything in existence. So of course the One Below All has to be as all-powerful or close to the same level as the One Above All. They are the creator and the destroyer.

Exactly. Not everything is measured in feats. How many feats does the One Above All have? If Al says OBA is as powerful or close to power as the OAA, then that alone should be proof enough. As if outright stating the One Below All is a Multiversal/Omniversal threat isn't enough.

Immortal Hulk #12 was incredible great!

I love that Al Ewing managed to tie in lore from previous, legendary Hulk writers such as Bill Mantlo, Peter David and Greg Pak. He truly is going in depth with the character and his mythology/lore/history. Is it any wonder why it's one of the best titles there is? And, plus, Ewing hinted that the One Below All is like Galactus in that depending on the individual and race, it has infinite different appearances.

I cannot wait for Immortal Hulk #13! It's going to be epic! And I have a feeling that, given what the Hulk said and the words of the page, the gloves are about to come off in a big way. I've seen that smile and those eyes before... 7 years ago in the finale of Greg Pak's run.

In other words, hold onto your butts, Gamma Gang!

The covers and solicitations for Immortal Hulk and Avengers: No Road Home are simply incredible. Then there is the cover and solicitation for Hulkverines... Ugh, why Greg Pak? The story concept of Hulk & Wolverine seeking out Weapon H was interesting enough.

But this? It's definitely killed some of my interest with the mini. I mean, Wolverine was Hulked-Out before in World War Hulks, but at least then his design was different and he actually looked cool. This look/design is horrible. And giving Immortal Hulk adamantium claw?! Ugh! Only possibly redemption is that Hulk rips the adamantium, claws and all from his body, in an impressive feat of strength, durability and healing factor. Maybe produce gamma energy so intense it melts the adamantium within him?

@medulaoblaganda:

I have created the Incredible Hulk - 2018 thread, but I haven't created any since then. This is our official Immortal Hulk thread for 2019.