@nima_: Tom Brevoort stated "It is not a good time to be a Hulk" after Newsrama asked him about that scan of him killing and overpowering that team, which means things are not going to be as we're expecting. Likewise, Newsrama asked him if that was Amadeus Cho or Banner and he didn't answer but subtly implied it was Banner but the context behind why he's so big and why he's on a rampage and why he recovered his powers is still a mystery, albeit, he also claimed Banner went on a mission with Carol so perhaps he gained his powers there. I'm pretty sure the instance will have context that will defy the legitimacy of Hulk doing such thing, even though he's more than capable of doing so realistically. The only thing that has me genuinely excited is the fact Brevoort claimed Banner would be a major character in issues to come as well as possibly starring in other series and stories.
@warlockmage:This is a very weak attempt to throw the rock and hide. I already confronted you about this things you're stating and you never responded back even though MOST of what you're stating has already being proven wrong to you or flat out self-debunked through context alone. On top of disagreeing with pretty much 95% of what you're stating in this blog, i feel the need to express my conflict with you last statement, what aggravates it is the fact you're asking for people to use this flawed blog as a factual tactic in debates and it is precisely the reason why ComicVine's quality overall had a massive drop in just a few months, because people was essentially regurgitating what other people said without the rigor to look at the evidence themselves. There isn't a single proper nor reliable citation whatsoever and there are some scans and instances taken out of context here. I'm going to bash a 2nd time these posts of yours and hope for a decent reply, mainly because you already left me hanging on the same subject and because this is YOUR OWN BLOG.
so this has come up a lot lately in in recent events and i really do get tired of repeating myself to people.
Warning, Hulk Fanboys have not taken these facts well. if you are a Hulk fanboy, doctors advise you stop reading now or else the truth might freak you out
I'm genuinely intrigued as to why you're tired because you've failed to provide a decent reasoning besides blatant and unfounded disagreement, on top of that taking the actual time to create this thread but restraining yourself from debating this same subject with me.
The last part is rather sad and uncalled for. I'm one of the users who keeps refuting these ideas you call "facts" and i will keep coming from you whenever you bring this same points you so graciously failed to even analyze beyond lazy research and you'll see why.
Lets Start with the time frame
so around the time Gladiator got beaten by Hulk. Gladiator was also beaten by the Fantastic Four and even by Gambit once.
First of all, Hulk's fight in Incredible Hulk Annual from 1997 takes place 6 freaking years after Uncanny X-Men #277, which is the scan you're wrongly citing. Second, the Uncanny X-Men issue was written by Chris Claremont, who is the same guy who had Gladiator moving faster than light against The Fantastic Four in Fantastic Four #249, who also happens to be Gladiator's creator. Which means his creator has a very defined portrayal of his character given he also wrote Uncanny X-Men #137 where Gladiator went toe to toe with Colossus.
during this time period, Gladiator was mistreated very badly against the Fantastic Four, The Avengers, and The X-men
Oh wow, i find this funny because you actually had the balls to call me ignorant yet here you are, making the foolishest arguments ever about things you clearly have no idea about. Uncanny X-Men #137 took place in 1977 whereas his fight with Gambit took place in 1991, that's more than a decade away between those issues and the 90's, which also differentiates EVERYTHING regarding characters, mainly because it jumps from The Bronze Age of Comics to the Modern Age of Comics.
It's not the same Era at all, i guessed you would've known this given you're stating "facts" here, but judging by how this started, i have a pretty decent idea on just how far your blog is going to be from the truth. It worths to note that feats like Gladiator busting a planet came in the 90's... Mr. Expert.
so whats the point?
the point is these classic time periods Gladiator received a lot of mistreatment in order to make the more popular characters of the time look better. I mean if you honestly think Gambit or Colossus hurting Gladiator makes even a little bit of sense, then stop reading here. because the idea of logic obviously escapes you
Your point is flawed and your approach couldn't be more inaccurate by this point. Gladiator wasn't mistreated, he was clearly shown as the powerhouse he was supposed to be under a very consistent basis under HIS OWN CREATOR. Regardless of your unnecessarily decisive statements here, i do agree Gladiator shouldn't be beaten by Gambit, but he has proven more times than not to be on Thor's tier rather than above or below, which makes him more than capable of being beaten by Hulk.
During this time period he had his confidence issues, something that was brought up far more often than it is now.
In NONE of the instances you cited his confidence was mentioned. You're stretching the proof while misusing their purpose, typical of someone who has no freaking idea what he's talking about.
Now lets look closely at Silver Surfer's words.
"A specifically tuned burst of Radiation"
now for me, if the Surfer has to specifically tune any type of energy, that tells me the likelihood of it appearing naturally is very minimal and certainly it is not appearing in a radiation plant on earth.
Or maybe what Silver Surfer's phrasing on the subject was due to him restraining himself from flat out revealing Gladiator's weakness. There's nothing solid to suggest the radiation he's talking about couldn't be found on Earth, which then again only makes it an assumption by your part, ergo, NOT AN ACTUAL FACT.
but more importantly Surfer has never ever made use of or mentioned this ever again.
Why would he need to, it was already confirmed on Gladiator's handbook entry. If there's anything revolving this FACT is that Silver Surfer's own ineptitude impede him from exploiting Gladiator's weakness in those encounters and i'm pretty damn certain that's a more trustful interpretation given Silver Surfer's track record of failing to use his powers properly.
He fights Binary, someone who should have been able to fine tune her energy to match the burst needed to "Fell Gladiator easily"... doesnt happen
Ms. Marvel can't even control the Binary state, why would you assume a character that isn't even versed with having cosmic awareness considering she hardly stays as Binary has the means to flat out exploit this? She has no feats to suggest so, Silver Surfer on the other hand has.
Fights Surfer, someone who said he could do it... doesnt happen
Maybe because the issue where Silver Surfer states it happened after the scan of Silver Surfer fighting Gladiator during Maximum Security: A Dangerous Planet #1? I would have thought you knew this, even more so when you're trying to make such a "factual" approach here.
Fights Vulcan, arguably one of the best, if not the best, energy manipulator in Marvel. He doesnt drop Gladiator either.
Vulcan has no cosmic awareness whatsoever, what's his excuse to know this weakness?
even the damn Marvel Handbook can't tell us about this radiation weakness.
I dont know about you, but until i see it actually in action somewhere where it is believable im gonna call BS on this whole radiation weakness. I think Marvel is trying to make it go away, and we seem to be just happy with letting them. Except whenever we want to desperately make a case for Hulk to beat a powerhouse
No one needs to know which radiation it is and i can't even fathom what's your thought process behind this correlation between Hulk and this weakness. Hulk didn't state "Gladiator is weak to this and that" he literally figured out Gladiator was weak to radiant energy and he thought to punch him into a Nuclear Reactor. He was literally testing his chances said radiant energy was in that reactor and apparently, it was.
You don't know nothing at all to be honest. Hulk wasn't even the first instance in which this was claimed nor stated, it was previously stated in the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: Deluxe Edition #5 in 1988, which happens to be almost a decade prior to his encounter with Hulk.
To reinforce the idea of Gladiator being actually weak to a certain type of radiation, it was also stated in the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: Master Edition #8 in 1991 to be one of his weaknesses. If anything, Marvel has been extremely consistent in stating and confirming Gladiator is weak to certain radiation considering it has been stated 5 times already, 3 in official handbooks and 2 by characters on-panel.
For someone who has such a little amount of appearances, Marvel and the people in charge of overseeing the character's progress have been rather adamant to Gladiator's weakness, which seems to be the most logical weakness to be honest, i mean, Gladiator was a confirmed Superman ripoff by Claremont himself and we all know Superman is weak to a certain type of radiation called kryptonite.
The last part is uncalled for (for a second time) and makes you look like a hypocrite, mainly because you're arguing AGAINST facts with a mere unfounded interpretation about a character while self-proclaiming yourself as an expert in the subject, even though you've shown nothing more than emptiness in the title and blatant ignorance about what you're stating, which is the very definition of someone "desperately making a case for a character beating a powerhouse".
The First Part of the Blitz
so after Hulk initially cheap shotted Gladiator to open the fight (honestly the only way Hulk should ever be able to get the drop on Gladiator is a cheap shot) Gladiator, rather brilliantly i might add, decides to BFR Hulk
You're in denial and Hulk has the feats to suggest he can tag Gladiator, on top of that has consistency on his side given literally everyone and their mothers have tagged and punch Gladiator just fine, including Eric Masterson. I can agree with the last part.
now given how fast Gladiator is known for moving, 100x the speed of light, and few other instances
Jesus Christ, you're even more ignorant than i thought! The instance you're unpractically citing here is from Fantastic Four #249, which actually took place in 1988, which is about 3 years from Uncanny X-Men #277 (Gambit's stomp), on top of that it was written by John Byrne who was also cooperating along with Claremont during Uncanny X-Men #137, which is Colossus's fight with Gladiator, ergo, the same writer who had him flying at lightspeed also had him trading blows with Colossus. Just marvelous. Did i mentioned that the issue you're citing here is PRECISELY the first story arc where Gladiator's weakness to some radiation was confirmed? I mean, your ignorance is full of surprises Mr. Expert!
Argument-wise, this feat had absolutely nothing to do with other instances and i can drown this blog of yours with instances in which Gladiator doesn't operate anywhere near lightspeed in combat.
he goes 100 times the speed of light. so what this establishes is that if Gladiator had decided to truly put 100% of his effort into blitzing Hulk, Hulk could have been half way around the galaxy before he would have realized it
How many times has Gladiator EVER shown such speed?
He blitzed Supereme
Supreme is basically another Superman rip off. the one problem is Supreme is someone who can move at the speed of light
here he is blitzing Supreme into Space before Supreme can do anything about it
Supreme confirms he moves faster than light.
So the idea that Hulk can even see the stuff going around him tells me Gladiator was not even moving 1/100 of his top speed. wait what?
I don't agree he couldn't do anything, i'd prefer to say he OPTED not to do anything mainly because he had both of his arms completely free and he wasn't even stunned prior to Gladiator taking him to space. On Hulk's fight, you can actually see why you can't leave an opponent's arms free when BFRing him, mainly because you can be punched or countered easily, which Supreme did not. If anything, it was Supreme's own character that impede him from operating properly.
You have no proof whatsoever to claim Gladiator >always< moves that fast.
if gladiator truly were to BFR Hulk, Hulk has no feats saying he'd be able to stop him from doing so.
Hulk has the feats of punching people on Gladiator's tier within 3 hits and even one shoting them. Hulk also has feats reacting to people moving faster than the speed of light, like Silver Surfer for example. I'm going to quote myself for a third time of a previous thread i argued the same thing.
"The instance from Infinity Crusade #4 and the whole relevant context about it is that Surfer became an intergalactic ballistic missile capable of obliterating an entire planet on impact and was moving fast enough to move in space from stellar body to another in seconds, hell, someone even states Surfer is about 30 seconds from impact and he was quite far from the planet in question, if he managed to close that gap from the sun to the planet's moon in that time, he was going pretty freaking fast, here are all the scans relevant to the instance...
Gallery
Now i need to make emphasis on a part of the third scan to give you a better picture of just how far Silver Surfer was from the target and just how fast he should have been moving if he was just about 30 seconds from impact. He was standing right next to that solar system's star, Sol, absorbing its energies to becomes ridiculously powerful and the moon in question was the one from the blueish planet... As you can notice (or i hope you can because i'm seriously questioning your capabilities now) the star and the planet in question have a really significant gap between them...
Either it was insanely far or just far, Norrin arriving in half a minute to this planet is a very impressive speed feat for Hulk, considering he was still able to keep track, calculate and throw a projectile with his own arm fast enough to hit Silver Surfer and correct his trajectory, there's no doubt Hulk's perception speed, reactionary and combat speed is far greater than you're giving him credit for. Moreover, Hulk flat out stated he OPTED not to engage Silver Surfer in that state so he decided to throw the rock, not exactly that he couldn't actually tag Silver Surfer."
Wouldn't this suffice to prove Hulk can react at the very least to a highly hypersonic attempt of BFR from Gladiator, because there was also nothing indicating Gladiator was moving at the speed of light, much less in Supreme's instance.
So Hulk decides to do a smart thing, admittedly he does the one thing he should, he strikes out at Gladiator. the problem is the way he did it should not have affected Gladiator in the slightest
Let's see now.
So gladiator apparently almost goes deaf from this thunderclap.
Yes.
but a point blank whisper, literally point blank, wasnt enough to KO gladiator or even really stop him, they had to BFR him after this.
So now Hulk's thunderclaps > Black Bolt's whispers? no no it doesn't make sense.
I'm about to lose it with you. You keep posting that out of context image while purposely neglecting the fact Gladiator was most likely KO'd because Quasar implies so, i even went as far as attempting to argue this with you but you ran away... I'm just copy and pasting it here.
So it is bullshit because you think too high of Black Bolt and too low of Hulk? No, the only thing that is a big pile of bullshit here is the fact you undersell Hulk's feat because Black Bolt whispered in Gladiator's ear during Starblast #2. Not only Hulk took a greater whisper back in Incredible Hulk's first annual, prior to any kind of power increment and was simply shaken by a couple of seconds before standing up again, but the fact Gladiator took the whisper and was out of the battle for some time and Quasar himself states so when he claims "He's back to make my life..."
I fail to see what's so great about a feat Hulk did when he was remarkably weaker than anything post-70's era. Either way, Hulk's thunderclaps have managed to harm people like Thor, Hyperion, Iron Man and other powerhouses, he can even replicate nuclear detonations with it, i fail to see why a nuke exploding inside Gladiator's ear couldn't be considered as a high caliber attack that should at the very least phase him like it did in the issue, i mean, Black Bolt's whisper still affected him more and i don't know from where the hell you're bringing he was fine and dandy the next page consider this is what was shown.
He doesn't look fine at all, hell, he was SO NOT FINE he didn't appear in any panel for like 5 more pages before Quasar claimed "He came back" meaning he was out of the equation at least to the point of making Quasar claim he came back and not "It didn't do nothing to him" or some other improbable statement.
Again, hopefully you respond because this is the last time i take 3 hours of my life elaborating an argument to debate this with you. If you're so eager to refute this battle that you made a blog about it, the least i expect from you is to have the eagerness to defend your point as well.
It does not make sense. unless you really wanna try and make the argument that Hulk's thunderclaps (in a very thin atmosphere i might add) are stronger than Black Bolts whisper.
Maybe they are not stronger, but it was well placed and he can still recreate nuclear proportions with them... There's nothing out of the norm here. You might as well assume Gladiator just took a nuke to the face and was just stunned for a time.
The Conclusion
Given all the Pre-Factors, like Time and the Numerous inconsistencies found throughout the fight you simply cannot use it to make a case for Hulk beating Gladiator, who currently does not lose to Gambit or have confidence issues. Nor can you use it to make a case for Hulk beating other Powerhouses like Superman or Wonder Woman.
Given the fact you started taking things out of context, neglecting factual evidence, neglecting writer's views, neglecting consistency between issues, neglecting the fact Gladiator has been consistently portrayed as the same caliber powerhouse between 30 freaking years, the fact you can't even fathom to understand "Ages Of Comics" as a concept and the fact you took an unpractical and uncalled approach, namely attacking an entire fanbase for having a well founded opinion on a fight, makes this blog - and i say this as respectfully as i can - a big pile of bullshit. Not to mention you're seemingly oblivious to the actual evolution of the character you're so vigorously defending here.
Modesty aside, i would break every single textual bone of your arguments in a debate.
Nightmask was shown to be a full grown man during Hickman's Avengers... What the hell happened? Also, they proved to be a quite powerful duo, specially Starbrand, i'm not fond on the idea of them having crappy foes, it just, doesn't match.
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