geekryan

Fighting wank by moonlight; winning love by daylight. Etc.

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geekryan

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@justaxviel: still no feats/scans to present for your case? Still no actual counter to Morgan blocking Wanda? Disappointing but expected.

I don’t do the same. Not even close. For one, I have backed Wanda in certain thread/fights. You have never backed anyone other than Wanda. I have also backed up other characters against Jean. Do you even read any comics that aren’t about Wanda? Do you even know stuff that aren’t about Wanda? You don’t actually ever debate, and you don’t actually contribute anything of worth in any thread you post in. You’re kinda just a bad hype man for others.

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@pyrofn said:
@andromeda1001 said:

@pyrofn:I don’t think Dormammu needs to control his residence to block Nightmare. I think all he needs is the power of his realm and some sort of proficiency in psychic ability.

Eh, I don't think I agree with that. Nightmare exists in the subconscious of beings, so every time someone sleeps, they're actually wandering through the borders of his realm(Which means they're not in the Dark Dimension anymore, per se). Dormammu would need to close the gates between dimensions inside the head of every resident, then.

Based on past conversations with Wastelandman, I am pretty certain they are of the opinion that Earth-based telepaths are vastly inferior to Earth-based sorcerers.

But I will let let wastelandman explain their own perspective rather than speak for them. But that is my assumption of their take anyways.

Well, I can't answer that for him. So I'll wait for Waste to explain his reasonings.

Yet, we also have instances of psychics doing better against more. I think we are dealing with more people just not understand how telepathy scales.

Like, we are talking about the same arguments that think just bringing a set of anti-tp shields ends the conversation.

I believe we need to somewhat find a common ground, but again, I'm not that much of an expert on characters like Agatha to know where exactly to place her. As I said before, I was just addressing that showing specifically.

That’s what I say generally, too. So far though, no one has brought what Agatha‘s average is, so I am pretty lost.

For reference:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/agatha-harkness/4005-3327/forums/respect-agatha-harkness-marvel-616-2068978/

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/respect-agatha-harkness-young-marvel-616-2320382/

Obviously, an RT wouldn't include anti-feats, but it's not like those are necessary in order to gauge who would win a fight.

From what I see, Jean trumps Agatha in pretty much every aspect of telepathy. Agatha is especially lacking when it comes to psychic combat.

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geekryan

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@geekryan said:
@justaxviel said:

"Nowhere did it say she wanted Wanda’s magic because it’s more powerful."

Everything after trials of magneto and contest of chaos already explained why chaos magic is the most powerful magic, unless you're just being denial.

"And again, you fail to counter the fact that Morgan has blocked Wanda’s magic.

Bodied."

acted like you didn't fail to counter why morgan wants her power lol

You're acting like Morgan wants Wanda's power only because it's more powerful, with zero evidence to back it up.

Even if you proved it...guess what? It means nothing for combat, since we already saw Morgan block Wanda's powers.

Start making actual arguments with scans/feats to back them up, or don't bother with me at all.

Now that I think about it, I don't recall you ever posting a scan/feat. Ever. It seems the limits of your "debating" are just claiming that Wanda wins in every thread and piggybacking on others. Are you able to debate for yourself or do you need help?

I'm probably just beating a dead horse though.

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geekryan

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"Nowhere did it say she wanted Wanda’s magic because it’s more powerful."

Everything after trials of magneto and contest of chaos already explained why chaos magic is the most powerful magic, unless you're just being denial.

"And again, you fail to counter the fact that Morgan has blocked Wanda’s magic.

Bodied."

acted like you didn't fail to counter why morgan wants her power lol

You're acting like Morgan wants Wanda's power only because it's more powerful, with zero evidence to back it up.

Even if you proved it...guess what? It means nothing for combat, since we already saw Morgan block Wanda's powers.

Start making actual arguments with scans/feats to back them up, or don't bother with me at all.

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#6  Edited By geekryan

Stops at CW Wanda, since today's episode of X-Men 97 gave Jean her best TK feat.

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#7  Edited By geekryan

@geekryan said:

The scaling still seems off to me, and the context is iffy as well. I don't see how it's a high end and not an outlier/PIS given that Agatha has nothing else remotely close to this level.

I mean Teen Jean drained the psychic energy from the Supreme Intelligence, who has at least two galaxy-level feats. Knull had trillions of beings under his control, across the galaxy, and Jean was able to enter his mind and harm him. Nightmare, Mind Gem Moondragon, Lifeseed Nate Grey all have galaxy/universal-level feats and Jean has feats against them. So if we're relying on high-ends, I don't see how Agatha wins out based on this one questionable feat alone.

Cross-dimensional range has happened with Jean Grey and other high-tier X-Telepaths as well.

Again, I don't believe Agatha has shown to struggle with less. I could be wrong, though.

Those are all good feats and all, but as I said to Pyro, I'm not really arguing against Jean or in favor of Agatha. All I'm saying is that Agatha has some impressive showings, as well.

Fair enough! I just don't see how this one feat can be used as a consistent thing for Agatha, especially given the context/scaling involved and how she has nothing else remotely close to this level.

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#8  Edited By geekryan

I mean...it's kinda one-sided when you're making this 5v1, with the 5 people having an hour of prep, and knowledge, and access to all weapons they have ever used. Not to mention they have excellent teamwork.

They clear rather easily.

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@geekryan said:
@andromeda1001 said:

@geekryan: Agatha pales in comparison to Dormammu though, so even if he wasn't at full power, how is it not PIS that she could block him?

It's kinda weird to me to use a feat for Agatha from decades ago, and scale her to a recent feat of Dormammu controlling a galaxy.

I'd say it's a high-end showing, really. Still, I don't think she showed an exact limit. @wastelandman knows more about her than I do, but once again, I don't believe Agatha has indeed shown to have a limit telepathy-wise.

Even before that storyline(Decades before, actually), Dormammu has still shown multi-dimensional telepathy range-wise:

Strange Tales#144
Strange Tales#144

Heck, during the following arc after Agatha/Wanda confront Dormammu and by the same writer, Umar(His inferior by a considerable margin) has shown beyond universal telepathy (Transdimensional telepathy, to be more precise):

Doctor Strange, Master of the Mystic Arts#8
Doctor Strange, Master of the Mystic Arts#8

So it's not an isolated feat that only happened in the future.

The scaling still seems off to me, and the context is iffy as well. I don't see how it's a high end and not an outlier/PIS given that Agatha has nothing else remotely close to this level.

I mean Teen Jean drained the psychic energy from the Supreme Intelligence, who has at least two galaxy-level feats. Knull had trillions of beings under his control, across the galaxy, and Jean was able to enter his mind and harm him. Nightmare, Mind Gem Moondragon, Lifeseed Nate Grey all have galaxy/universal-level feats and Jean has feats against them. So if we're relying on high-ends, I don't see how Agatha wins out based on this one questionable feat alone.

Cross-dimensional range has happened with Jean Grey and other high-tier X-Telepaths as well.

Now I agree if we're using high end then we should use Jeans too...

But

I think Knull had context. Yes, she got in his mind which is a feat. But she had some assistance helping her get to that point or she would have just done it herself.

Mind Gem Moondragon? Classic Xavier was pulling the same feats to my understanding and Jean has always been stated to be potentially stronger.

While yes Nate Grey did create a new plane of reality, so it would make him universal with the lifeseed. However, when it came to physical attacks his durability was lacking. Jean did say there were two timelines in her mind which led me to believe either he was mentally affecting the timeline or reality warping everything. If he was mentally affecting time/space of an existence then that's a huge feat for Jean as she caused him pain feeding him the deaths from her time as Phoenix.

Of course they have context, but my point is that so does the Agatha/Dormammu feat.

If we're going to base this off Agatha's high-ends, we can use Jean's high-ends as well.

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@mage101 said:
@kasya_carey said:
@geekryan said:

Jade kinda sucks, but so does Blue Marvel.

It depends on Kyle vs. Monica, so I'd back Kyle and give Kyle + Jade the win.

Given that marvel hand book for 616 stated it’s canon for Monica to manipulate emotional EM spectrum after the crossover.. she might defeat both.

When was that stated and this isn't a battle of who wins and Kyle has grown to the point that ganthet said that he has mastered will so Monica won't be able to do the same and jade doesn't use Emotional spectrum energy, her power is magic related.

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