Galactus616

Hulk with ease.

Zoom gets clapped for reasons already stated, the only ones who are trying to say otherwise are the delusional fanboys who know nothing about Thanos.

Superman fangirls still as obnoxious and toxic as ever I see. 😂😂😂

Uber Jason and every other version of Jason loses to Spider-Man. This is a mismatch.

Black Panther wins.

@legend531: Thank you. Believe me, it was my pleasure. I enjoy correcting those who are ignorant. Especially the ones are extremely obnoxious on top of that.

Lol, Jiren and MUI fanboys. Gotta love em. "Jiren is far stronger than Broly, and it's severely obvious. Jiren at full Limit Breaker, went toe-to-toe with Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku, which I believe is even more powerful than SSJG Blue Gogeta. Therefore, Jiren is beyond Broly." Wait wait wait wait, hold up, so it's "severely obvious" that Jiren is stronger than Broly because he went "toe-to-toe" (which he really didn't) with a character that you simply think is stronger than the character who beat Broly. Ah, I see. Well GREAT argument, you just put this whole debate to rest. No really, good job. Well done. Lmfao

On a serious note though, Jiren isn't even definitively, let alone far, stronger than Broly. Nor is he definitively stronger than Beerus. Same thing goes for MUI. Where is the evidence to suggest otherwise? Because Jiren was said to be stronger than a God of Destruction who isn't even stronger than Beerus, who happens to be the God of Destruction that Broly was compared to? So what? And to address that statement, yes you read that right, Belmod isn't stronger than Beerus nor was he ever implied to be. The only time that has ever been even remotely close to being true is when Whis vaguely mentioned a God of Destruction being even stronger than Beerus, who shot it down immediately after saying that the God of Destruction in question only beat him in an arm wrestling match, which means nothing. Furthermore, even if you wanted to go off of that and use it as some sort of evidence to prove that Belmod is stronger than Beerus, there was absolutely no indication on when or how long ago that even happened. That literally could've been decades, centuries, millenniums, or even megannums ago. Meaning that Beerus would've most likely gotten much stronger since then. And even if you choose to just ignore that, the whole "Jiren > Belmod > Beerus" argument still gets put to rest by the simple fact that even in the V-Jump article where Beerus directly compared MUI Goku's power to his own, he only said that Goku "might" have surpassed him which means that he wasn't sure, it was questionable. Well, we know for sure that MUI Goku > Jiren and Jiren > Belmod. So if it's only questionable whether MUI Goku > Beerus or not, well, you can do the math. And to even further my point, in the manga Beerus solos all of the other Gods of Destruction including Belmod. So yeah, it's pretty safe to say Belmod wasn't intended to be stronger than Beerus.

Now, there are several points that were made in this thread that are worth addressing:

• "Whis said that Jiren was at or above the level of a God of Destruction whenever all he did was push the spirit bomb back, and he was still heavily suppressed at the time."This is one of the most misinterpreted lines from the anime. Yes, Whis did compare Jiren's power to that of a God of Destruction whenever he was repelling the spirit bomb. Which, as we know, Jiren was nowhere even close to being at full power during that time. However, this doesn't mean that Jiren was already as strong or stronger than Belmod with the amount of power that he was using at the time, or, in other words "suppressed Jiren >= Belmod." All Whis was doing was gauging Jiren's power based on how easily he overpowered Goku in the beam struggle while he was seemingly far from his limit. In other words, he could tell that Jiren's true power was much, much higher than that, and that's what he was referring to whenever he compared him to a God of Destruction. And before anyone tries to argue how ridiculous that sounds or that Whis couldn't have known how powerful Jiren would be at his limit because he hadn't seem him there up to that point, need I remind you that this isn't anything new and that DB characters have been able to do this for a while. A perfect example would be whenever Krillin did this with Cell back in DBZ. All Cell did was casually kick Krillin away while he was suppressed, and Krillin was able to tell not only that Cell was far stronger than he was letting on but also that Vegeta had no chance against him, even though 16 initially said that Vegeta still had the edge in power even after Cell transformed. It's worth noting as well that Vegeta up to that point had just been toying with Cell and hadn't even gotten serious yet, but still Krillin knew that Cell was stronger. Another example would be Goku himself whenever he powered up in Korin's tower before fighting Cell. Prior to that, Goku hadn't even seen Cell power up yet but could tell that Cell was a lot stronger than he was. The same thing happened in the Buu saga whenever Fat Buu first emerged. Vegeta was extremely confident that he and Goku could take Buu down immediately upon sensing Buu's power for the first time, but Goku knew that Buu was far more powerful than he seemed. And he did it once more in Battle of Gods whenever he knew that he couldn't beat Beerus even if he used the potara fusion despite having no clue about how powerful Beerus truly was. Now, exactly how I ask, could these characters have known how powerful these other characters were if they hadn't even seen their true power yet at the time? The answer is simple, it's because characters don't always need to see each other at full power to be able to accurately gauge how powerful they are. This point also goes with Goku's comment about Broly's power in comparison to Beerus's. More on that later though.
  
  
  
  
• Even aside from Broly possibly being as strong as Beerus or stronger, you still can't factually say that SSB Gogeta is weaker than Beerus whenever even SSB Vegito was questioned as being stronger than Beerus. And before you mention how that line was only in the manga, the movie is canon to both the anime and manga, and it even favors the manga, so it can be applied here. "But Shin wouldn't know, he's never seen Beerus at full power" well, here's the thing, first of all, I already went over this a while ago whenever I talked about how characters have demonstrated that they can gauge other characters' true power without necessarily having to see it, and even provided a few examples to support this. And the fact is that even though Shin hasn't seen Beerus at full power, he has at the very least seen some of his power and what he was able to do. So it's definitely possible that he could've been able to gauge Beerus's true power based on what he's seen of him so far. Not to mention that Elder Kai, who actually knew Beerus well before Battle of Gods, could've possibly seen Beerus at full power before and told Shin just how powerful he is. "But Shin only asked if he was stronger than Beerus which means that it was questionable and not for sure" that may be but I could easily use that same logic and say that if Shin actually was able to accurately gauge Beerus's full power based off of what he's seen and he still questioned if Vegito was stronger or not instead of knowing that he outright wasn't, then obviously that would still mean that Vegito was somewhere in the same ballpark as Beerus and as we all know, Goku and Vegeta have gotten a lot stronger since then, which would only result in a much stronger fusion. In any event though, regardless of what you think about Shin's comment, nothing was ever really shown to contradict it. So until you can actually prove that he was wrong and that Vegito was nowhere near Beerus, you can't factually say either of those things. Therefore, to say such would be nothing more than speculation.
  
  
  
  
• "Frieza lasted a whole hour against Broly. If Broly was so powerful, why couldn't he finish Frieza in an hour?" Well, no. You see, Frieza got destroyed, first of all. He literally did nothing but get beat up the whole time. He didn't do anything to Broly, he didn't give him a fight, he just got owned. So I don't really see what the purpose is of bringing that up. Now, just in terms of how long he lasted against Broly, well there are several reasons why I believe he lasted as long as he did. For one, Frieza has been shown multiple times throughout the series to be extremely durable. Going as far back as the Namek arc when he was obviously far weaker than he is now, he survived the explosion of the planet while he was already severely injured. Even in the Tournament of Power he took beatings from Toppo and Jiren and was still never down for long. Hell, he even took a large blast made of Destroyer energy head on and came back almost immediately after. Not to mention that he was able to retain most of his power and use his Golden form until the end. And aside from Frieza's insane durability, there's also the possibility that Broly wasn't even really trying to kill him, but more just beat him up and torture him. One thing DB has shown us over the years is that Saiyans enjoy torturing their opponents, especially whenever they're angry. Goku did it to Frieza, Vegeta did it to Cell, Gohan did it to Cell, Gohan did it to Buu, Vegeta did it to Frieza, and so on and so forth. It's very plausible that this was the case with Broly and Frieza as well. The main reason why I would say that Frieza lasted as long as he did however, is simply due to comedic purposes and plot convenience. The scene itself wasn't portrayed as being very serious to begin with. And on top of that, there were several other examples in the movies of characters not being killed or KO'd outright whenever they logically should've been. Frieza is a prime example of this. Even after he transformed into his Golden Form it was clear that Broly was well above him, not to mention that he had literally just finished stomping two SSBs prior to that, yet somehow Frieza in only his final form, which is far weaker than that, managed to survive a beating from Broly without at least getting KO'd. The same thing goes for Goku whenever he tried to fight Broly in his base form after Broly was just fighting on par with Vegeta in his SSG form. Obviously there's a massive power gap between their base form and SSG form, so if Broly was able to fight on par with Vegeta in his SSG form then by all means he should've one shot Goku in his base form. These are just inconsistencies that happened in the movie for the sake of the plot. They shouldn't be taken so seriously. What we know for sure is that SSJ Broly > Base Gogeta >>> SSB >= Frieza.
  
  
  
  
• "Frieza never fought full power Jiren. Jiren was lowballing throughout the entire tournament. He only powered up to full power whenever he was fighting UI Omen Goku" Actually, yes Frieza did, briefly. And no, he didn't only power up to full power during his last fight with UI Omen Goku. He powered up to his full power after Toppo got eliminated. It was made obvious by how drawn out his power up was, plus it was literally stated in the episode descriptions. Episode 126: "Vegeta's attack overwhelms Top's attack. Vegeta blasts Top out of the fighting stage and eliminates him from the Tournament of Power. This also causes even more damage to the fighting stage. Due to Vegeta being much stronger than he was the last time he used the Final Explosion technique, he survives the blast. Vegeta's energy is almost completely drained. Android 17 also reappears, but he has been injured by Jiren's attack. Goku, Vegeta, and Android 17 all face off against Jiren, who begins to unleash his full power." Episode 127: "Jiren powers up to his maximum. Goku, Vegeta, and Android 17 all attack him simultaneously, but he easily overpowers them. However, Android 17 manages to land a sneak attack and hurts Jiren." He wasn't still suppressed by that point. He didn't get even stronger than he was before. All he did in the scene you were referring to was attempt to use his most powerful attack to knock Goku off of the stage since Goku was defending against his other attack. In other words, he didn't necessarily raise his power level even higher than it was before. He was still at the same level of power as before, the only reason why he seemed to power up even more was because he was using more power than he had been up to that point, or rather, he simply concentrated his current power in order to deliver a powerful attack. Think of Vegeta with the Final Flash. Whenever Vegeta used the Final Flash against Jiren, he seemed to power up even more, but that doesn't mean that he was holding back or that he wasn't at full power before. He was. He just concentrated it all into one powerful attack. To even further prove my point about Jiren, it pretty much confirms it in the episode description. Episode 129: Jiren gathers all of his power and launches a final blast down at Goku, but Goku suddenly transforms again and powers up immensely. Goku easily nullifies Jiren's blast and jumps back up to the tournament stage. Jiren attacks again, but Goku easily overpowers him with a flurry of punches. Whis reveals that Goku has completed his ascension. Goku's hair and eyes have turned silver. Goku now has full mastery over Autonomous Ultra Instinct. You like Geekdom, right? I seen that you posted some videos of his on here. Well he actually covered this stuff whenever the episodes first aired nearly two years ago now. Anyway to sum this all up, yes, Frieza did indeed briefly fight Jiren whenever he was at full power. So he would know how strong Jiren was. And even if he didn't, as others have already said before, he could still sense Jiren's power throughout the tournament, including his limit breaker power. Not to mention what I already pointed out earlier about characters being able to gauge each other's true power.
  
  
  
  
• "Broly never even pushed them to use SSB Kaioken or SSB Evolution." Yeah no lol, that argument doesn't work simply because those forms don't even exist in the manga which is what the movie mostly follows. Same thing goes for MUI, which also doesn't exist in the manga. And if you want to be technical here, even Jiren didn't really "push" Goku into UI. Not in the manga at least. From what I recall Goku just used UI after witnessing Roshi do it. And besides that, Broly pushed Gogeta, who is far, far above those two forms into going SSB. So they're not exactly relevant.
  
  
  

• "Belmod was implied to be stronger than Beerus in both the anime and manga."Lol, no he wasn't. Belmod was NEVER implied to be stronger than Beerus in the manga. In the manga Beerus fought all of the Gods at once (including Belmod) and held his own. In the end, the only two left standing were him and Quitela, who was confirmed to be the God of Destruction that beat Beerus in arm wrestling. Nothing is ever even mentioned of Belmod. "But Belmod was the only God who didn't sustain any damage from the battle" yeah because he faked going down early and tried to catch the others off guard with sneak attacks. Why would he feel the need to do that if he was above all of them, or at least above Beerus, who was shown to be above the rest of them? The answer is, he wouldn't. Not to mention that, going by your logic of how Ultra Instinct is an Angel's technique and all of that, Beerus is above Belmod by default simply because he was the only God of Destruction who demonstrated the ability to use it. And judging from some of your previous comments, you seem to believe that Beerus was the only God who could use Ultra Instinct as well. So with that being said, literally nothing points to Belmod being stronger than Beerus in the manga. So I'm not sure where you got that from. As for the anime, he isn't really implied to be stronger there either. The only time thing that's ever seemed to imply that was Whis's vague statement about there being a universe where lives a mortal who even a God of Destruction couldn't beat and that God of Destruction being stronger than Beerus. However, there are several issues with that line. First and foremost, the fact that Beerus dismissed it saying that he only ever lost in arm wrestling. And to go with that, it wasn't even confirmed that Belmod was the one who beat him in arm wrestling. Another thing is that Whis didn't even seem to know exactly which Universe or God of Destruction the rumor was about, judging from the exact dialogue. In fact Whis even straight up said that he doesn't know much about the other Universes. One thing we do know for sure about Whis however is that he loves to troll Beerus, and after rewatching that scene, it's very likely that's exactly what he was doing. Plus Whis has been wrong before anyway, like the time whenever he told Goku and Vegeta during the "Resurrection F" arc that they could beat Beerus if they worked together. Also in the original "Battle of Gods" movie whenever he said that Beerus used 70% of his power. Then of course there's Beerus's line in the V-jump magazine where he only said that MUI Goku might have surpassed him. Which, even if you want to lowball Beerus and say that he was only referring to UI Omen Goku (he wasn't), let's just say that he was, well you already said several times now that whenever Jiren pushed the Spirit Bomb back, he was already at the level of or above Belmod. And we know that UI Omen Goku is obviously above Jiren's suppressed level that he was at whenever he pushed the Spirit Bomb back given that he was powered up much more whenever he fought UI Omen, so if Beerus was anywhere close to even UI Omen that would still easily put him above Belmod. Lastly, you like to use the word "implied" a lot. Well even in the anime Beerus was implied to be able to use Ultra Instinct to some extent, which again, judging from your previous posts you seem to agree with yourself. Meanwhile nothing of the sort was ever once implied about Belmod. Also, even in the manga where it was outright confirmed that Quitela was the one who beat Beerus in arm wrestling, they were shown to be evenly matched in combat. So clearly the writers didn't intend for an arm wrestling match to mean much. Case and point, no matter which way you look at it, Beerus is superior to Belmod.
  
  
  

• "The Battle Royale between the Gods in the manga was filler!"There's no such thing as "filler" in the manga lmao. Do you even know what "filler" is? Evidently not. Calling anything that happened in the manga "filler" completely contradicts the meaning of what "filler" even is. That's just as laughable as claiming that the manga is non canon lol. The manga is the truest form of canon there is. At best, you can say that the anime is a separate canon from the manga, but in no universe can you actually declare the anime as being more canon than the manga. That's just complete and utter nonsense. Toriyama might not be the main man writing the story anymore, but if the guy (Toyotaro) doing it is the one who Toriyama chose to be his successor and he still oversees everything and okays it before it's released, then that's still enough. Besides, even with his limited involvement with the manga, he's still more involved with it than he is with the anime. Also, Toriyama is the one who wrote the script for the movies, which is what Super is based off of. Hence why the series literally started with the movies.
  
  
  

• "Give me proof of Toriyama saying that SSB Gogeta is stronger than MUI Goku! Give me proof of him saying that Broly is stronger than Jiren/Beerus."Lol that's a pretty weak argument. Toriyama doesn't generally comment much on things like that so there's no point in trying to use him here. I could easily do the same thing and demand for you to show me proof of him saying that MUI Goku is stronger than SSB Gogeta or that Jiren/Beerus is stronger than Broly and it would work just as well for me. Although, perhaps his way of telling us that Broly was stronger than Jiren and Beerus was by having characters say it in the movie, y'know, the one that HE wrote the script for. I must say though, I find it funny how you've said that Toriyama has very little involvement with Super just to try to dismiss the manga, but then you turned around and tried to use him to strengthen your own argument by demanding that people provide you with direct statements from him to confirm what they were saying. What's even funnier than that is how you demand for someone to give you a direct statement from him confirming that SSB Gogeta is above MUI Goku and Broly is above Jiren/Beerus and not just what fanboys say, yet you come on here posting videos from Geekdom101 and SethTheProgrammer to backup your claims about MUI Goku > SSB Gogeta and Jiren/Beerus > Broly even though those guys are nothing more than fanboys themselves. It's all very amusing to say the least lmfao. Oh and for the record, Geekdom doesn't even say that MUI Goku and Jiren > Beerus. Sooooo yeahhhhh.
  
  
  

• "Beerus never looked concerned about Broly."Lmfao and? What exactly does that have to do with anything? Beerus never even seen Broly. He wasn't around during the fight, he didn't get to see it up close. And he never had a reason to be concerned anyway. It's not like Broly was going after him, he specifically wanted Vegeta. Broly wasn't causing any type of threat to Beerus, so what reason would he have to care? The only reason why Beerus ever even seemed "concerned" about Jiren was because Jiren was a huge threat to Goku as well as all of the other fighters from Universe 7, who Beerus's survival depended on. Character reactions aren't the most reliable things to scale power on anyway. Zeno got excited over many things that the fighters did in the Tournament of Power even though he's vastly more powerful than all of them combined.
  
  
  

• "Limit Breaker Jiren was even with MUI Goku before the rage boost"Uh, no? MUI Goku was stronger than Limit Breaker Jiren, period. The "rage boost" had nothing to do with it. Go watch the fight again. Jiren only briefly gained the upper hand. MUI Goku was still beating him in the end, which is what led to Jiren trying to attack his friends and thus giving him the "rage boost" in the first place.
  
  
  

• "Jiren was literally using 5% of his power and mopped the floor with Goku Blue Kaioken X20, and he was still using less than 10-15% of his power when he was fighting Goku and Vegeta, Jiren released 50% or less when Toppo was taken out by Vegeta Blue Evolution"Lmfao okay first of all, you have no evidence to support those numbers and second, even going by these numbers (which are your own numbers might I add) that would still put SSB Gogeta well above Jiren, and MUI Goku as well. Base Gogeta was shown to be > SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta so at the very least that would put SSJ Gogeta more than 2x > SSBKKX20 and SSBE. And that's still nowhere near what SSG, let alone SSB Gogeta would be.
  
  
  

• "Ultra Instinct is an Angel's technique."No it isn't and that was never stated anywhere. The most that was said about it as far as I can remember was that it was an extremely difficult technique that required the user to be able to move without thinking and that even Beerus hadn't mastered it yet. In theory, anyone could learn Ultra Instinct. It's just that it would be extremely difficult to do. So much so that even Gods of Destruction struggled with it. At no point however was it ever described as being an "Angel's technique."
  
  
  

Now that all of that is out of the way, I will explain why logically SSB Gogeta would be well above MUI Goku and Jiren.

First off, we all know that characters in DB get stronger over time and the main antagonist from the current arc is pretty much always stronger than the one from the last.

There are several statements from the movie saying that Broly is above Jiren and Beerus. In the description it's mentioned that Broly is the strongest enemy they've ever faced and that his power is even greater than a God of Destruction's (obviously referring to Beerus). Then of course there's Frieza's line saying that no one in existence could beat Broly and Goku's line saying that he's probably stronger than Beerus. So right there you have four different things stating that either Broly is the strongest or that he's stronger than Beerus and nothing saying that either of them are stronger than he is. You can't just dismiss every one of those things as only being promotional material and not actually true, which you can't even factually say anyways, and therefore is nothing more than speculation on your part. And if that's what you want to believe then that's fine, but you can't win a debate with speculation. Now, for all of you who are so content on dismissing Goku's comment and saying that he's wrong simply because he's never seen Beerus at full power (which I already debunked earlier in this post whenever I went over how characters can gauge each other's power without necessarily having to see it) Goku at the very least has seen Beerus in action and knows to some extent what he's capable of, yet he still said that Broly was probably even stronger than him. For as much as you guys love to disregard that line and claim that Goku doesn't know what he's talking about, the fact is that he did still say it. You want to know who Goku never said was definitely, probably, or even maybe stronger than Beerus though? Jiren.

We know that fusion is a huge multiplier, and although the exact number is unknown, we've seen many examples to give us a good idea. Kefla being the most recent and (probably) best example. Individually they were just two normal Saiyan girls who weren't even stronger than SSJ2 Goku, and didn't have God ki or anything. Then all of a sudden when they fused, they were on the level of UI Omen. Now try to tell me logically how it is that a fusion between two Saiyans who are much stronger and have God forms on top of that, wouldn't be even stronger than Jiren and MUI Goku.

Just going off of the movie we know that Base Gogeta was stronger than SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta. Although to what extent isn't certain, the fact is that he was. And we know that SSJ multiplies the user's power level by 50. We also know that SSBKKx20 and SSBE are similar in power with SSBE being a bit stronger, so at bare minimum that would put SSJ Gogeta around 2-2.5x stronger than SSBE and SSBKKx20. Now that's just SSJ Gogeta, SSJ2 Gogeta would be 2x more powerful than SSJ Gogeta, and SSJ3 Gogeta would be 4x more powerful than SSJ2 Gogeta. So basically, SSJ3 Gogeta would be 8x more powerful than SSJ Gogeta and at least 16-20x more powerful than SSBE and SSBKKx20. So as you can see, there is a significant gap between SSBE/SSBKKx20 and just SSJ3 Gogeta alone, and it's highly unlikely that even Jiren was that much powerful than them. Even if we highball him and use your numbers, like for example, let's just say that he was only using 50% of his power or less after Toppo got eliminated (which I already debunked but whatever). For the sake of the argument, let's say that he was using 40% of his power, and let's highball him again and say that whenever he was using 40% of his power, he was 5x stronger than them. So at 100%, that would make Jiren 12.5x stronger than Goku and Vegeta. And keep in mind, that's highballing Jiren a lot because for one, I already proved that he was indeed using 100% of his power after Toppo got eliminated. And two, it's very unlikely that Jiren was that much stronger than them, especially at only 50% of his power or less. Anyway, even despite highballing Jiren, he struggles just to keep up with SSJ3 Gogeta. And again, that's only SSJ3 Gogeta. That's not even SSG, or let alone SSB Gogeta, who would both be at least hundreds of times stronger than that. And as someone else said, logically Jiren wouldn't have been THAT much stronger than Goku and Vegeta. Not to mention that I've also been lowballing Gogeta here since I've been talking as if he fought the same Goku and Vegeta who fought Jiren during the Tournament of Power when in fact they logically would've gotten stronger since then given that the Broly movie takes place quite some time after the Tournament of Power.

Anyways, say what you want about Broly and Gogeta but there are multiple signs that point to them being above Jiren and MUI Goku and quite frankly, nothing suggesting otherwise. Oh and for the record, saying that Gogeta wouldn't be able to hit MUI Goku is laughable at best considering that Jiren was able to do it just by having enough raw power and speed and Gogeta would be considerably stronger and faster than Jiren as well as a much better fighter.

Endgame and easily. Infinity War too. On a side note, it's funny to see how salty all of the DC fangirls were getting. ???

How am I just now seeing this? Talk about late. Anyway, RKT isn't on fully fed Galactus's level. Normal Thor has only ever hurt a starving Galactus and whenever Odin "KO'd" Galactus with a headbutt, he didn't actually KO him at all. He just knocked him down for a second, which Galactus got up immediately and was unharmed, meanwhile Odin on the other hand had to go into Odin's sleep. And in neither of those instances was Galactus even close to his full potential.