Formally_Darth

@lord_tenebrous: "I never denied that he did not improve in terms of sheer physicals."

But you neglect it when comparing him to his younger self. He's much more physically capable than he was prior. Physicality plays a significant role in combat.

"Yes, it literally was damaged:"

Due to his mindset. I was referring to his physical connection. For example, Vader's connection was damaged, and he lost his potential, but he recovered to surpass what he was prior. I digress. Here, Cal's connection to the Force was "damaged" due to PTSD, which he overcomes.

"Yup, so by the very end he's either equal to or slightly better than his 19 bby self in the Force."

Nope, just that he had regained all of his skills he knew around the 75% mark, but had learned others throughout the game. You literally unlock and learn other and new abilities as you progress, and midway through the game, Second Sister acknowledges his progression: "You're learning." Learning stuff is different than becoming reacquainted. He had already learned those skills, he just needed to remember them, while additionally learning many new things. He's far more powerful than his 19 BBY self in regards to his Force prowess and application.

"I've never denied that Cal was improving throughout the game. But less than a year (probably far less) of non-concentrated saber training is not enough to compensate for 5 years of inactivity"

While I understand where you're coming from, I have to disagree. He had been taught all those things for so long, them being part of his Jedi mindset, that they would've been muscle memory. Obviously, he would've been rusty, which he was at the beginning, but rustiness doesn't actually last that long once you become quite active in something again. E.G., you've played a game for years growing up, then stop for five. You return to find yourself rusty, but through constant interaction with it, that rustiness wears off quick, especially with a more mature mindset. Cal was in constant combat, especially saber based as he went up against Scouts, Purge Troopers, Inquisitors, Dark Jedi, and even clashed a few times with Vader (though was hopelessly outmatched).

"There's no rush."

Appreciate it.

@lord_tenebrous: "he spent 5 years completely inactive." From typical Jedi training, yes. But he was working difficult jobs and performing very dangerous maneuvers. He wasn't by any stretch of the imagination just sitting on his ass during those five years like you claim. Furthermore, his connection was NOT damaged. He was simply dealing with PTSD, it wasn't a literal damage. Regardless, it's a damage he recovers from in the end, something you yourself acknowledged. The time length may be less than a year, but it was still a lengthy time period wherein we saw him recovering his abilities, healing the damage to his connection by facing his demons, and learning (stated by the Second Sister in their second altercation). I'm going to do a more lengthy response to both of your replies to me, but I'm also incredibly busy with school at the moment as we're wrapping up Second Quarter. See you when I see you.

@lord_tenebrous: Qui-Gon wasn't a match for Maul. An injured Maul nearly killed Qui-Gon in a minute while using only one blade. By the end of their fight on Tatooine, Qui-Gon was sweating bullets and gasping for breath, collapsed on the floor with his energy spent. Maul remained unaffected. Even with the aid of Obi-Wan, they were not a match for Maul. As addressed in my other thread, Dathomir is not a DS Nexus.

@lord_tenebrous:

"his master was trash who performed worse than Zett Jukasa against clones."

His master was a user of the saberstaff, a weapon stated only master swordsman can wield, Cal also wields this weapon. He was clearing squads of Clones, by the way, and only lost at the end due to simply overwhelming numbers and his desire to protect Cal. He sacrificed himself.

"Then Cal went for years without using a lightsaber, so by Fallen Order he'd be out of practice."

At the beginning? Yes. But he regains every skill he learned and improves throughout the game, if you've actually played it you would know this. His connection to the Force was "damaged" due to PTSD, which he overcomes.

Cal was Knighted by Cere at the end of the game, by the way.

"Malicos on a potent DS nexus was still comparable to Cal, which makes him fodder too."

No, he wasn't. This is an overhyped misconception. Dathomir is not a Darkside Nexus. It just isn't. It has a specific connection to Nightsisters, which has been confirmed by Maul and Mother Talzin. It doesn't amplify Darkside users, only Nightsisters due to their unique connection to it. Furthermore, do planet Nexus' even exist in Canon?

Regardless, Cal defeated the Ninth Inquisitor at the point he fought Malicos. Don't bother saying Inquisitors are fodder. They're not. They're all former Jedi, turned to the Darkside, trained by Vader, equipped by the Empire, and professional Jedi killers. Cal straight up beat Ninth Sister before his prime and then lost to Malicos. He literally only managed to get Malicos half way defeated before being overpowered and saved by Nightsister Merrin.

All of these characters are accomplished, but will get stomped by characters like Darth Vader. If that qualifies as "fodder", then you clearly don't understand just how powerful Vader is in the Star Wars Canon.

@co-boss: True that.

@co-boss: In all fairness, Maul nearly killed Qui-Gon in a minute on Tatooine despite being injured from a previous fight and only using one blade from his saberstaff. Malicos overpowered Cal Kestis and Nightsister Merrin individually, and gave them collectively a good fight before losing. Both of those characters have very impressive feats. I can't say entirely how long Malicos would last against TPM Maul, though.

@kilius: Savage is actually older, though Maul takes the elder role in their relationship due to his experience. I agree he doesn't stomp, but I doubt he's going to have trouble with Savage's size. In the Darth Maul 2017 comics, he stalemates a Rathtar in a tug-of-war bout, despite the Rathtar having leverage and better ground. This was pre TPM.

@lord_tenebrous: Literally it is a fact that Maul is in his prime in The Clone Wars. Stop claiming otherwise. I still don't care what you think about it, it's literally a fact. Vader is more powerful in Rebels than he was in Revenge of the Sith, yet another Canon fact.

Cal defeated the Ninth and Second Sister Inquisitors (the latter twice), two of the most powerful Inquisitors, and was overpowered by Taron Malicos, only getting him down half health before being defeated, and only winning with the aid of Marrin. I don't see the Grand Inquisitor ranking much higher than the others, and for that reason I'm going with Malicos. Cal has some amazing Force feats, and Malicos levitated him in the air, pinned him to the ground, broke off stone from a structure, and was about to crush him with it all while still keeping him pinned. Furthermore, Cal is officially a Knight by the end of the game, for those confusing him with the rank of Padawan. Honestly, what an amazing game. Star Wars is doing great lately. We've gotten The Mandalorian and Jedi: Fallen Order at the same time, and are also getting The Clone Wars Season 7 and an Obi-Wan Kenobi series. I do feel like it was a missed opportunity to not include Maul in any form, not even a mention like there was of Grievous. Maul was literally on Dathomir during this time period, ruling Crimson Dawn from the shadows. Does he even know of the Nightbrothers or Marrin? Because he claims in Rebels he is the last survivor. Regardless, that saberstaff was sick.

I have to play the game before speaking my thoughts on it, and haven't had the time yet.