Oh yeah, this is a thing. I won't be paying attention so just assume my vote goes to Joker.
TV4 i guess
Fated_Xtasy's forum posts
because Hett was more experienced at fighting in sand. It makes sense that this advantage would also apply to Sharad Hett.
It was fortunate for Ben that he had continued his Jedi exercises on Tatooine, that he had not allowed his reflexes to become dull. He did not think about how long it had been since he had last used his lightsaber in combat. Nor did consider that he was older than Hett by at least a decade, or Hett's considerable skills with his own weapons, and that the Tusken was far more experienced at fighting in the desert. Ben knew that any such thoughts would probably only get him killed.
—Life and Legend of Obi-Wan Kenobi
So you believe the terrain to the same? Hahahaha. Amusing.
It’s quite evident that not all of Tatooine is the same, Old friend. However it would appear you need a reminder:
In the following scans, Aurra and her opponent are fighting on hard ground, where the footing would be very much neutral for both combatants.
However, Kenobi had the misfortune of dueling A’sharad on sand, which is very easy to see.
Luring me away from my strong points by pointing out trivialities will do you no good, bantha. I know more about Aurra Sing then you do, I’ve gone through every source and appearance. What can you conceive that I’ve not already thought of?
All this means is that An'ya Kuro is a great lightsaber instructor and teacher. The accomplishments of her students doesn't have anything to do with An'ya Kuro's own level of ability, it only speaks to her level of ability in the area of teaching.
Yes, the accomplishments of her students are not something that should be directly linked to the master. But the quote regarding her students also directly states this was because of her vigerous training. However, despite this you know full well that An’ya is perfectly familiar with Aurra Sing, perhaps you should direct your attention to Anakin VS Kenobi, and just how much the familiarity factored into that fight.
I take the words of Mace Windu, who declares that Depa knowing everything about his style gave her an edge in anticipating him:
Of course she had anticipated him: she knew all there was to know about his style. She'd known exactly what his target had to be, and she hadn't been cutting into the chamber below in order to help activate the transceiver.
—Star Wars Shatterpoint.
This next quote, while different, does also suggest that knowing eachothers style does factor into a battle
Obi-Wan and Anakin have been partnered for so long that they can all but read each other's minds and predict what each other will do.
--ROTS Visual Dictionary
In the Dark Empire II series, Kam Solusar slays Vil Goir with a single cut and states that he knows all of Vil’ls styles
And with this I show you just how much knowledge of your opponent, intimate knowledge, assists in a battle. Now, you should also remember that Aurra’s reputation precedes her, she has gained infamy, and that infamy reached the jedi. An’ya knows very well of the tactics her opponent will use, what's more her over-reliance on uncivilised weaponry and tactics to gain an advantage in combat will not work here, especially against someone who knows her so well.
I must confess, my good friend, I am somewhat confused as to why you scoff at the idea that it was An’ya training that made her Apprentices so skilled, even though it is fact, yet you so baselessly claim that Sharad Hett is afforded the same advantage as his son based on absolutely nothing but assumption. Amusing really.
Time and time again, whenever Aurra’s abilities are mention, An’ya Kuro is mentioned in one form or another. Seldom has there been a time in which Aurra’s abilities are respected because they are her own, it is her training that made her such a skilled duelist. Numerous people note this, and she never denies it.
t is also implied that for this same reason the rest of the Jedi Council was not suited to hunt Sharad Hett down and only Ki-Adi Mundi, a jedi with no emotional attachment to Sharad Hett could be trusted to put him down if it were required. Because only Ki-Adi Mundi could be trusted not to hold back against Sharad Hett.
Also note how they didn't even consider sending someone other than a member of the Jedi High Council to go on this mission.
The entire Jedi council believes that none of them are fit to put Sharad Hett down because any one of them might hold back against him. Instead they believe that only an all out Ki-Adi Mundi possesses the skill required to kill Sharad...but that's not all when Ki-Adi Mundi brings up Qui Gon Jinn in a conversation with Sharad, the tuskan states that he is surprised the Council didn't send Jinn in Mundi's stead. (they couldn't because Jinn was dead at this point.)
Is that all?
This last one is a bit of an assumption, I will admit, but I think its worth being stated. Eeth Koth and the Jedi Council will not fight Sharad Hett because any one of them will hold back due to their emotional attachment to Sharad Hett, instead only Ki-Adi Mundi can be trusted to go all out and kill Sharad Hett. Furthermore only Jedi Council Masters were even considered to be sent on this mission, indicating that it would take a Jedi of Council Master level skill to challenge Sharad Hett. So Sharad Hett seems to be hyped up as a skilled combatant...
What a fallacious argument. You’re twisting the facts; The quotes do not directly state that it takes a “council level master” to beat A’sharad, which is factually wrong.
Your claim that Ki Adi was sent because he was a trusted Council Master is.. For a lack of a better word, unfounded. He was not chosen because he was a council member, that negates the entire reason why he was truly sent. Remember, Ki Adi is among the few jedi to have absolutely no close link to Sharad Hett, hence why he was sent, neither his rank nor his status have anything to do with being sent to fight Sharad.
The idea that a Council member had to be sent to fight Hett is ludicrous , as is the idea that Hett is even remotely close to Councillors. As is made clear in the comic, Ki-Adi was sent due to and only due to his non-existent link to Sharad, nowhere does this twisted theory you are providing ever come into play in the comic. My good friend, if such were the case then can we comfortably and correctly assume that Kenobi would have not been a good option? How about Tholme? Sora Bulq? Soara Antana? Quinlan Vos? Your argument assumes that a Council member is inherently stronger than a non-council member, however time and time again has this been proven wrong.
What's More, Jinn was only very recently killed(as stated by Ki) if Sharad(who as you know, was very much aware of his renown) expected the council to send Jinn(Whom we all know is not a Jedi Council member, yes?) then the baseless idea that a Council member was needed to beat Sharad is effectively rendered moot. Furthermore, You yourself bring up this idea of the Council sending someone other than a Council member, yet, surprisingly you argue that only a council member would beat Sharad Hett. Wouldn’t Sharad’s admittance to the fact that he expected Jinn suggest that Jedi Masters and Knights outside of the Council would beat Sharad?
Once again, there is a great plethora of people outside of the Council that are evidently superior to many of the Council members at the time, and likewise there is a plethora of examples that I could mention that would, quite frankly, take up half of this already long post.
I ask you all this, if Aurra, with the advantage of not being injured(Don’t worry, we’ll get to that), was able to beat Sharad with a cheap tactic, how would An’ya Kuro fare with and without these things? You all know the answer to that.
Is it possible, Bantha, that perhaps An’ya was passed over for not being there for so many years? It is, Old friend. Ki Adi Mundi himself notes that the Council had not heard a word from her in years. It was not until this moment, that she returned! So, my friend, Is it so difficult to believe that perhaps Mundi is not the only one capable of beating Sharad? That your baseless theories are perhaps not as solid as you like to believe they are? Is it, perhaps, possible that your assumptions will remains just that? Assumptions, based on nothing but twisted conclusions and manipulations of context. Come now, old friend, surely this is above you?
But why exactly did they send Ki-Adi Mundi after Sharad Hett in the first place? Because the Jedi Council is actually worried that if Sharad Hett fell to the Dark Side that the Sith could use him against the Jedi, and they even state that he would be a powerful weapon for the Sith
Yes, yes, a great master would make a useful tool to the Sith, indeed. However I confess I fail to see just how useful an injured Jedi Master would be of any service to the Sith. Still, your point?
Or if Sharad Hett is still a Jedi they want him on their side in order to fight the Sith, and state that his skill is needed to battle the Sith
Yes, A Jedi Master would be useful against the Sith, but I ask you once again, what is the point? Are you suggesting Sharad can fight Dooku or Maul? This merely indicates that Sharad would help in battle against a foe the Jedi have no knowledge about up until then. The ROTS novel clearly states the Jedi were prepared for a battle akin to the New Sith Wars, and in fact they themselves admit that they did not expect the Sith to be so powerful, so given the context of this then we can rightfully assume the Jedi and Sharad were prepared to fight fodder.
If you presume to argue that Sharad was wanted by both sides(which, of course, nothing ever remotely states that Sidious wanted him by his side, this was merely an assumption made by the Jedi..) Then that is a moot point, as it certainly does not compare to An’ya’s own hype in Extinction, wherein she’s deemed too dangerous for the empire to simply leave alone, this of course being the same empire who recruited powerful Force wielders who could be swayed into their fray(Examples include; Galen Marek, Kam Solusar, and Ferus Olin-albeit briefly.) and even used powerful Jedi such as Jerec to a great extent. Yet Sidious demanded her death by his most powerful Dark Sider.
Since im not occulting things from the voters I might as well point out that both Sharad Hett and Aurra Sing were injured in their battle with each other.
Sharad Hett had been shot but it was stated that it only clipped him in the shoulder a little.
And shortly before the fight Aurra Sing took a two handed gaffi stick to the head.
A strike like this has been stated to have the capacity of shattering skulls.
The gaffi stick can be wielded one handed, or double handed, depending on the combat scenario. A double handed blow is difficult to block and can be powerful enough to shatter an opponents skull.
― Fact File 61
Aurra Sing is suffering from a head injury, likely a concussion, and Sharad Hett has a slight shoulder injury. Aurra Sing's injury would seem to be more severe but I am willing to call the injuries equal.
Amusing. Interesting diction, Bantha. However, I’m afraid that won’t work. Firstly, you neglect to mention that the quote states that “depending on the combat scenario” we clearly do not know if Aurra suffered any sort of damage from that, and frankly it is very doubtful she did. Given how she is later able to take a boulder to the face and fight A’sharad in later years, I highly doubt a single hit from the gaffi stick will be enough to cause her injury as she is seen having no real issue after the fact. Secondly, Bantha, do you think me so gullible? Did you not think I would bring up the fact that Sharad wasn’t only shot through his shoulder, but also fell directly from a skiff and landed on hard ground? Falling from high ground after being hit with a bolt would compromise one’s ability to fight more than a pathetic head injury you so foolishly claim Aurra received. Furthermore, after the battle we see Aurra drive to the area of battle with no mention of injury or bleeding, given how during this scene she’s talking to the reader you would think the character would acknowledge this supposed injury, yet nothing is mentioned. Thus further reaffirming that she was not injured.
Lastly, we have Sharad Hett who remained fighting throughout the entirety of Aurra’s fight and continues to fight before she even arrives to battle him, given how the battle was trying and Sharad’s injury from the fall and shot, one would almost always come to the conclusion that the one who was in a extremely disadvantageous state was Sharad, not Aurra.
To give everyone some context of how an arm injury can affect a duelist, let’s look at Maul: Lockdown, wherein Darth Maul faces Komari Vosa after taking a blaster bolt to his arm, we must also take into consideration two things. Number 1: The inherent Pain Tolerance that the Zabraks have, and number 2, Maul has some of the best Pain Tolerance feats in the mythos
“Your right arm is slowing you down. Even your weapon is betraying you.” Maul kept coming, relying more and more on his left arm, saving the right for when he’d need it most. But Vosa seemed to anticipate everything he was doing, dropping low and then springing up and outward into an open space along a row of diagnostic machinery in the corner of the medbay. Maul’s lower lip drew back to reveal his teeth. If defeating Vosa was what he needed to do in order to get the weapon in the hands of the Gora, so be it. Gripping the lightsaber’s hilt, he squared his shoulders and swung again, thrusting his blade at her in a series of perfectly angled slashes. Vosa came back at him on the offense, both blades spinning.
“Jar’Kai,” Maul snarled, deflecting her assault on reflex. “Predictable.” He swung the lightsaber down, but at that moment the corridor shook again, jerking sideways, throwing them both off. Vosa recovered first, darting back, again too quick, and the speed with which she evaded his attack only inflamed the rage inside Maul’s mind, stoking his wrath until it crystallized into a kind of malignant grace. Now he gripped the lightsaber in both arms, forcing his damaged right arm into service and gripping the hilt of his saber with his full strength. It was time for Juyo, the Way of the Vornskr— the last of the Seven Forms. He seized upon it eagerly, allowing himself to be swept up in the chaotic frontal assault of thrusts, slashes, and jabs.
“Maul—” A tremor of new fear pulsed across Vosa’s face, disrupting her composure, as if she’d finally recognized the true ferocity of his purpose. Darting backward into a desperate evasive measure, Vosa whirled one of her blades behind her, hacking loose a massive shelf of surgical instruments from its place on the wall, and with a swing of the hand she used a Force push to fire them at him in a glinting storm of steel. Maul ducked the flying instruments and bobbed back up with a silent snarl. In his mind, the duel was all but over— his opponent was now dragging out the inevitable moment of defeat in a series of small humiliations. By turning to such diversionary tactics, Vosa had all but admitted that she was no match for the erratic staccato blows that he was delivering, seemingly from everywhere, all at once.
He charged at it, the makeshift lightsaber swinging sideways in both hands as he thrust it directly into the thing’s gaping maw, then planted his feet and spun the blade in a 360-degree arc. His right arm felt like it was on fire. His right shoulder was screaming at him. He ignored it, sweeping the saber around again, carving the very teeth from its mouth, slashing at the mandibles from the inside, then spinning it the other way until he’d chopped the mouthparts themselves to ribbons.
—Darth Maul: Lockdown.
Even Maul, with all of his pain tolerance, is unwilling to use his injured arm unless absolutely necessary. If Maul’s injury hampered his dueling ability, than I somehow doubt that Sharad is going to have no problem fighting on after being shot with a stronger weapon, and falling down, hard.
Do you truly believe this? Because An'ya Kuro was one of the people that the Jedi Council didn't even consider allowing to go after Sharad Hett…
Yes, fiercely so.
Your right. Aurra Sing did run from the engagement stating that she was unable to defeat the duo. But that in no way turns this into a low showing.
Yes, and Kenobi stated that he thought that perhaps they were too powerful for her. Which is true, regardless of what you want to allude to.
In fact it is an incredibly high showing as Aurra Sing was able to give this duo a challenge only out done by Darth Maul.
Yeah, no. Darth Maul is infinitely superior to Aurra Sing, like-wise, his match with the duo is far more impressive than Aurra’s own match.
Given how you coincidentally overlook the context of these feats, knowingly or mistakenly, Aurra was stalemating Jinn whereas Darth Maul bested him(with difficulty depending on the source) Aurra Sing was floored by Kenobi, whereas Maul was consistently dismissing him in their duel.
Aurra’s only advantage against Jinn was her duel wielding, something she pulls out whenever she is on the ropes. Concordantly, we can see from later depictions of Aurra struggling against people below Qui-Gon and Kenobi, this being the Jedi Master J’Mikel who was able to break through her defense and give her a slight wound in the Hunt for Aurra Sing comic, which takes place several years after her battle with Sharad Hett and Qui-Gon Jinn.
So, unless you consider Qui-Gon Jinn to be below the likes of the nameless Jedi Master that was at the very least stalemating Aurra, I doubt there is anything else here for you to debate, Old friend.
Throughout the fight she was able to casually beat Kenobi in one on one combat. Remember that he is stated as being one of the orders best even at this time.
You do realize he floored right after, right? And she pulled a cheap shot that gave her a quick second to retaliate and retreat. Where it not for her second blade she would have died, there and then by Qui-Gon’s blade.
An’ya Kuro’s own showing against Vader, is honestly so much better than anything TPM Kenobi has, it obviously surpasses the fact that Jinn lost to Maul by virtue of Maul being below the likes of Vader, she certainly has more to her name than J’mikel, Padawan A’sharad, and Sharad Hett combined. As I said, there’s nothing you can tell me about Sing, that I don’t already know about, in fact even what you like to keep hidden, I already know about, Bantha.
Make no mistake. Jax Pavan was being pushed back by Vader but his performance against Vader in lightsaber combat is highly impressive as he fought the Sith head on. Also you should note that he was willingly giving ground and was attempting to lure Darth Vader into a death trap. All of this is much more impressive than An'ya Kuro's battle with Vader as she couldn't meat Vader head on without being nearly instantly over powered.
Giving ground and holding back is exactly what Maul did with Kenobi, and Jinn. His performance against them is infinitely superior to Aurra. So how exactly is she a Maul level combatant? Furthermore, what Jax did after his power boost is an entirely different story altogether. Here’s we’re talking about how. Aurra Sing got humiliated by an unarmed, uninterested, Vader. That’s it. Also, the fact that from that angle An’ya was able to hold off Vader for as long as she did is impressive tbh, given her age.
Regardless, saying that her fighting him for brief moments is a low-showing, is a idiotic. Ben Kenobi also fought Vader in short bursts, so now it’s a low showing? It’s moronic seeing as An’ya styles is Ataru, which thrives on attacking their opponents in short bursts.
"Even so, Form IV is exhausting and is best employed in short but devastating bursts."
—The Jedi Path
Jax Pavan did gain a significant power boost from the holocron of Darth Ramage. However it is specified exactly what Jax Pavan learned from the holocron and absolutely none of it had to with lightsaber combat or dueling ability. Aside from Force Illusions and Time Maniulation the following is everything he learned from the holocron.
But he is stated to have grown strong in the Force by Vader.
“Impressive.” Darth Vader stepped out of an open lift to Jax’s left. “Is this display of power the result of some knowledge you’ve sampled? From where, I wonder?”
— Star Wars: The Last Jedi(Darth Vader)
You’ve progressed, Pavan. I hadn’t imagined you could wield such knowledge so well. It won’t do you any good, of course. I can see through you. I always could see through you.”
— Star Wars: The Last Jedi(Darth Vader)
“Proud of yourself?” Vader asked. “Perhaps you’re entitled. You’ve exceeded my expectations, I’ll allow. “
— Star Wars: The Last Jedi(Darth Vader)
“You amaze me, Pavan. The things you have absorbed from that dark well of knowledge, the ease with which you use them. You are truly wasted on the light side. Your continued existence and what you have done to ensure it confirm this.”
— Star Wars: The Last Jedi(Darth Vader)
Regardless of whether you like it or not, Force Power is synonymous with Lightsaber combat. Why? Well let’s ask dear old Kas’im, yes?
As you already know, the Force is the real key to victory in any confrontation. However, the equation is not so simple. Someone well trained in lightsaber combat can defeat an opponent who is stronger in the Force. The Force allows you to anticipate your opponent's moves and counter them with your own. But the more options your foe has available, the more difficult it is to predict which will be chosen."
—POD
Force Augmentation is an essential part of Lightsaber combat, it’s what allows for Force Users to meet the strength, and speed of their opponents, what allows them to react to projectiles, other ships, etc. A greater command of the Force allows one to keep up with similarly skilled, if not more powerful opponents.
An excellent example would be Lanoree Brock, shall we take a gander at the lovely lady?
“Lanoree used the Force to increase her speed, willing her muscles to stretch and contract faster, pumping her arms, pushing blood through their veins.”
―Star War: Dawn of the Jedi: Into the Void
As shown, the Force is able to increase this Jedi Ranger’s speed this merely a blatant example, there are several more I’m sure you’ve seen. Force Power is, as I said once before, essential in combat. Lastly, we have an example of of this in the following excerpt,
"The outcome was inevitable. Bane was simply too strong in the Force."
—POD.
Again, this showcases that due to Bane’s greater command of the Force he was capable of matching a superior duelist. So Jax’s power boost would not affect his skill, but it would affect his performance in combat. It’s just that simple.
Darth Vader wasn't in his prime when he fought An'ya Kuro either. So your point?
Fighting Darth Vader 17 years after Aurra Sing was humiliated would suggest there’s an increase in power.
"Shortly before the Battle of Yavin, Vader killed the Dark Woman, one of the last stragglers from the Jedi Purge and a woman who'd known Anakin when he was still an uncorrupted boy."
--The New Essential Guide to Characters
Seeing as this is “shortly” before the battle of Yavin, Vader would have already fought the likes of Jax Pavan, Ferus Olin, Roan Shryne, Sing, The Conclave, Starkiller and more. Furthermore, there are quotes stating he grew in power. Here are just a few examples:
Over time Vader has advanced in his ability to manipulate the dark side of the Force, and has used it to sustain his own damaged body as well as to persuade opponents of his will. Under the Emperor's tutelage, Vader learns to kill with mere suggestion.
-- Star Wars Visual Dictionary
As Darth Sidious's apprentice, Vader continues to expand his knowledge and the power of the dark side.
-- Force And Destiny Core Rulebook
Even his own generals could not escape Vader's wrath, and as time went by, the Sith's powers grew even stronger.
-- The Story Of Darth Vader
Thus we return to the same argument as before, a greater command of Force Power equals superior Speed, and Strength, these two things stemming from.. Force Augmentation. 17 years to study under the Emperor would give Vader an impressive Boost, as the quote above says, This simply solidifies the idea that Vader fought An’ya at a moment in time where he was already superior to his old self from 17 year prior
His power in the Force increased but his level of martial arts skill would have remained the same. Yet despite this dueling skill not increasing he was able to perform extremely well in a one on one duel with Darth Vader
His level of skill would have remained the same, his power in the Force and Force knowledge is all that increased.
Unfortunately, that isn’t the case. One might even say that this increase in power is what allows him to somewhat contend against Vader, that and the Crystal. See, power, my dear friend, makes all the different in a duel, It has allowed Vader to overcome Roan Shryne, who was technically superior to Vader at the time. However there are times where a low level Force user, is able to utterly humiliate a grand force user. However the Vader V Shryne comment is also a prime example of why the Force is important in a duel, as Roan was stated have not been that gifted with Force, while Vader was - as everyone knows - the Chosen one.Let’s go back to Kas’im’s words yes?
“As you already know, the Force is the real key to victory in any confrontation. However, the equation is not so simple. Someone well trained in lightsaber combat can defeat an opponent who is stronger in the Force.The Force allows you to anticipate your opponent's moves and counter them with your own. But the more options your foe has available, the more difficult it is to predict which will be chosen."
—POD
As you can all see, I have underlined the paragraph which bears great importance. Here, old friend, Kas’im states that Someone better trained in lightsaber combat can defeat someone stronger than they, yes? See, Bantha, what I find greatly amusing is that both scenarios mentioned by Kas’im appear in the Jax Pavan novel. Jax, due to his command of the Force, is able to somewhat keep up with Vader, albeit barely. But prior to this Probus Tesla utterly humiliated Jax Pavan, by seeing through his Illusions and disarming him, this being an Inquisitor Vader regards as having a weak connection, however he is skilled in combat enough to best a greater Force user like Jax Pavan. Let’s take a look, hmm?
"This is impossible," Tesla said. "You're ... you can't be here. You're-"
"Dead?" the Jedi asked, then shook his head. "Sorry, no."
"You were up on the detention level."
"No." Pavan's face lit in a slow smile. "He was."
Tesla shifted his eyes momentarily to where the Jedi pointed. A second Jax Pavan-identical to the first-stood in the intersection of two corridors, lightsaber gleaming in his hand. The instant of distraction was enough; when Tesla turned back, the real Jedi was mere paces away, his lightsaber already in deadly motion.
Tesla had neither heard nor sensed the movement, and the realization both galled and chilled. He brought his Sith blade up to meet the Jedi weapon, barely in time. The two blades clashed in a shriek of energy.
"I don't have time for this, Tesla," Pavan growled. He glanced up over the Inquisitor's shoulder, that same taunting smile on his face, inviting his adversary to look.
Tesla refused the invitation. He didn't know how the Jedi had done this, but there could be only one Jedi and only one Jedi blade.
He smiled at Pavan. "Clever. But, of course, he can't be real. You're the last Jedi, and you have the last Jedi lightsaber."
He swung his blade down and around, whipping Pavan's weapon aside and shoving him backward. Pavan stumbled back a step. Tesla, grinning fiercely, continued his own blade's arc, sweeping it up and over, letting the Force augment the power of the downward stroke that would cleave Pavan in two ...
Tesla's moment of triumph was interrupted by the sound of a second lightsaber, activating so close he could feel static crawling on his skin. He spun about ... and was stunned to realize it was a red blade-a Sith blade-sweeping toward him.
His last fleeting emotion was puzzlement; his last fragment of thought was, Impossible ...
—Star Wars: The Last Jedi
Every puzzle falls into place, eh bantha? Now this brings forth a conundrum for you. By delving into the Holocron Jax has, through the Magic of Star Wars, become more powerful in the Force, thus his Speed, Agility and Strength have doubled than when we last saw him, so he is undoubtedly superior to his Coruscant Nights Iteration, which was Stalemating Sing, yes? However here, we see Inquisitor Tesla decisively beat Jax Pavan, and would have killed him were it not for Pavan's allies. So Probus utterly humiliated a stronger Jax Pavan than the one Sing faced, the one Sing struggled with, so we - through your lovely thought process - can correctly assume that Tesla is superior to Aurra Sing
Ah the infamous Jacen Solo was holding back argument. This one can be countered with common sense. Jacen Solo was fighting to protect his daughter who loved very much, it is completely stupid to think that Jacen Solo would do anything other than go all out on an assassin who is trying to kill his nine year old daughter.
The only instance that we actually see Jacen Solo holding back is when he is about to release Force Lightning and he realizes that his daughter is watching.
It’s not surprising to see you make that statement, however I would recommend familiarizing yourself with the entirety of the character’s appearances before making careless comments. His fight with Jaina Solo has become distracted by his wife and Allana becoming endangered, this takes precedence in Solo’s mind, even against one of the most powerful Jedi in the Order(Jaina), this is mere proof of the fact that whenever Allana or Tenel Ka are involved, Jacen becomes less focused on battle and more focused on them. Against Aurra, he holds back from using his destructive powers based on Allana’s presence, he’s more focused on refraining from using his full power in front of his daughter, than he is on killing Aurra. This a fact shown time, and time again.
The only instance that we actually see Jacen Solo holding back is when he is about to release Force Lightning and he realizes that his daughter is watching. He is unwilling to bring himself to unleash a power commonly associated with the Dark Side in front of his daughter. But even in that quote we got confirmation that Jacen Solo was not holding back as he is stated to have gathered all of power when he was about to release Force Lightning, making it clear that he wanted nothing more than to utterly eviscerate Aurra Sing.
So in short, he was capable of utterly destroying her with a blast of lightning, but held back in the end? This doesn’t help you. He wanted to eviscerate her, could have too, but chose not to for Allana’s sake. Is this a concession?
Regardless, Jacen could have, and would have beaten Aurra had Allana not been present. So what exactly is the argument here? That Jacen would have “eviscerated” Aurra had he not hold back? Or that he couldn’t straight-up blitz because he did hold back?
I kind of half assed my opener because I hadn't read An'ya Kuro's battle with Vader at the time, but I have since and I can tell you that all of An'ya Kuro's students surpassed their master.
Yes, I’m sure Aurra getting tossed around by a Vader she admitted inferiority to is a clear show of superiority. The only one who surpassed her is Krayt, even Mundi revered the Dark Woman. An’ya is - through feats and accolades, Aurra’s superior
Decent accolade I will give you that but after seeing her battle with Vader they probably could have just sent Mara and An'ya still would have died.
What an utterly ill-founded claim. What proof do you have of Mara’s supposed superiority to Kuro? The quote directly states only Vader can defeat An’ya, and the EMPEROR, master of Jerec, Cronal, Mara Jade, Dark Side Adepts, Inquisitorious, The Prophets of the Dark Side, of all Dark Force Users in the Empire, agreed to sent his best agent, and greatest asset against the last straggler of the Order.
Furthermore, as a Jedi, and given their past history of knowing each other(Citation: New Essential Guide to Characters) Anakin would have a very good idea of Kuro’s capabilities to be able to remark that she is “still” a worthy opponent, while Kuro would only know of Anakin Skywalker’s abilities given her own praise of his ability, not Vader, the Dark Lord Of The Sith. Furthermore, it’s entirely possible that An’ya and Anakin either sparred/fought a battle together that left a good lasting impression on both of them in regards to their combative abilities, as the only way Skywalker was able to remark on the skills of someone as reclusive as Kuro(who’s abilities are not known to either the council or normal Jedi)would be through seeing her in action, it’s not at all confirmed, but a very likely possibility. Lastly, a direct comparison is made the Extinction comics between Mara Jade’s abilities and those of Darth Vader
"Your meager Jedi training is not enough to assure your success against the Dark Woman. Only the power of the Dark Side will destroy her."
--Vader(Extinction)
Clearly, she would not win, an assessment the Emperor agrees with. Don’t try to downplay this, Bantha. It’s never been your strong suit.
An'ya Kuro is using a two handed block in order to block a one handed strike from Vader and is showing visible strain while doing so...
Not only is An'ya struggling to block a one handed blow from Vader but she is driven to her knees by the attack...
She blocks an attack at an incredibly awkward angle(Which means she’s able to pullout her saber, ignite it, block Vader’s attack all in the same time it took Vader to launch his assault) and that makes her suck? How is this a bad point for Kuro? I mean regardless this a Vader that’s 17 years more experienced, more powerful, and by association with the Force much Faster, Stronger, and Faster precognition. Vader is infinitely superior to Aurra at this stage, and would eviscerate her so…?
Aurra Sing on the other hand has sent A'sharad Hett flying with a kick.
Kuro has sent him to the floor with a single jab.
Sent Aayla Secura flying with a kick.
Yes, because that’s beyond Kuro and Vader.
And sent Jacen Solo tumbling backwards with a knee.
A completely distracted Solo more focused on protecting his daughter from the Thermal Detonator than defending himself, right? In his hesitation and desperation, he allowed himself to be open to attack, thus giving Sing several opportunities to attack him.
The characters would get destroyed by Vader, your point falls flat, Old friend.
All of these feats are far superior strength feats than being driven to your knees by a one handed strike.
Yea Darth Vader is physically stronger than Aurra Sing. Good thing that An'ya Kuro can barely block a one handed strike with a two handed block. She isn't displaying anything beyond the capabilities of Aurra Sing.
Is that the best you could come up with? Bantha, you are telling me that kicking these characters, these low level character, is better than defending yourself from Darth Vader? Interesting, I mean this is the same Vader that very nearly casually disarmed Starkiller.
"A simple double stroke, up and then down, it contained enough power to jar his wrists and shoulders and very nearly disarm him completely."
—TFU
And very nearly disarmed Roan Shryne in one of his first missions.
Lightsaber grasped in both hands, Vader took a single forward step and performed a lightning-fast underhand sweep that almost knocked Forte's lightsaber from Shryne's grip. Spinning, Shryne regained his balance and raced forward, feinting a diagonal slash from the left, then twisting the blade around to the right and surging forward.
—Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader
The fact that she is able to react to Vader speed, and not be completely destroyed by his strength is more than Sing has going for her. Let’s just take a look at the kind of strength that overwhelmed Aurra, shall we?
Her fist never made contact. Raising his right hand and bringing it around in a swift arc, Vader blocked the blow and sent the body behind it flying across the room. As she flew, a startled but still wholly self-aware Sing tucked and rolled. She hit the opposite wall hard, bounced off, landed on her feet, and immediately came at him again.
—Coruscant Nights II
All of this is incorrect. An'yas performance against Vader is actually quite pitiful
So you consider being casually dismissed by Vader more impressive than giving a fight? You consider Aurra’s admittance of inferiority more impressive than both the Emperor and Vader deciding that Kuro must die by the hands of the strongest Force User?. How amusing, Considering Aurra Sing’s worthless performance, I’d say, and many others would say this as well, that An’ya blows Sing out of the water.
And when An'ya disarms him (something she only accomplished by taking him by surprise) an unarmed Vader casually one handed tosses her aside like she is nothing.
Given Vader’s ability to sense Starkiller’s emotions from lightyears away
“There is much conflict in you. Your feelings for your new allies are growing stronger…”
—TFU
And he is particularly skilled with sensing others.
“When dealing with others strong in the Force, Vader can sense and identify their presence by the psychic disturbance they create”
—Lightsaber Dueling Pack: Darth Vader
The fact that Kuro is able to take Darth Vader by surprise is by no means a small feat, only a select few have done this. At least Vader wasn’t distracted and forced to hold back against Kuro.
At least when Aurra Sing was getting humiliated by an unarmed Darth Vader she was also unarmed, just saying.
Yes, while Vader was holding himself back, this being the same Vader that would destroy Aurra with or without a saber, by her own admission. Additionally, Vader had no intent of killing Sing, while he did intend to kill Kuro. Aurra’s performance is downright pathetic when comparing the two. It would utterly stupid of you to say there’s absolutely no gap between 18 BBY Vader and 1-0 BBY Vader
The problem with your logic is that Aurra was physically weakened due to her time in prison and was out of practice. On the other hand an armed An'ya Kuro is getting treated the exact same way by Vader that an unarmed Aurra is. A weakened, out of practice, and unarmed Aurra is performing equally to a fully powered and armed An'ya.
Wait so which is it then? This is supposedly a good thing for her to be out practice when you bring up Pavan, but her being out of practice is a bad thing when she gets humiliated by Vader? So if I’m understanding this, it’s impressive she pushed and got stalemated by Pavan despite being in a worse state than when she fought Vader? But being out of practice is an excuse for her terrible performance?
That’s some double standard you got there. Anyway, you are completely delusional if you believe Sing performed as well as Kuro did.
Utterly destroying Aurra kind of like An'ya Kuro was getting utterly destroyed.
Nope, not only was Kuro capable of holding her ground, but she was able to actually do something against a Vader that was out to kill, while the Vader Sing fought was tooling her. I love how you rip something from it’s context and use it against Kuro, despite the fact that The Dark Woman was able to hold her own against Vader while Sing got obliterated. She’s regarded as an animal by Vader, while he sees Kuro as a “Worthy” opponent
Aurra is actually older lmao. But she is physically younger which is what matters. This means she has to call less heavily on the Force to keep fighting and has greater stamina.
Again, your point? Physical abilities don’t matter to older Force users. I told you this, you just chose to ignore this :\
Regardless, Kuro is massively more powerful than Sing, this point falls flat.
No she won't be smashed into computers and stuff. Instead An'ya will just get blasted off the edge of the arena and into the lava, and with no TK showings to her name An'ya Kuro has no defenses against this.
What a wild imagination you have, dear friend.See, what you, as always, conveniently forget is the basic abilities taught to all students. Telekinetic applications and basic defenses against them. Shall we take a note from Kas’im?
One of the first lessons Kas'im taught students was how to build a protective shield around themselves in combat to prevent an enemy from using the Force against them. A Force-talented opponent could yank away your lightsaber, knock you off balance, or even extinguish your lightsaber's blade without the touch of a hand or weapon. A Force-shield was the most basic-and most necessary-protection there was.
—Path of Destruction
Now, this a perfect example of how basic Force Barriers are, much like the Jedi ability to see without seeing. It is also a good example that despite being relatively featless in the case of Barriers, Kas’im’s basic lesson serves the Battlemaster well to the point where he is able to resist Bane’s incredibly amped Telekinetic blast, yes?
Now, if we take a look at the Jedi Academy Trilogy, we will find that the very first lesson Luke himself teaches to his trainees, is the ability to form a protective shield around themselves to defend against extremely hot water. This being an ability that even a relatively weak force user, such as Jedi Historian, Tionne Solusar, is able to conjure up and use successfully use.
Luke fought down his own fear and made his voice rich and forceful, as he had once tried to sound when negotiating with Jabba the Hutt. His words came out rapidly, filling the remaining seconds.
"A Jedi feels no heat or cold. A Jedi can extinguish pain. Strengthen yourvs with the Force!" Luke thought of the time he had walked across lava in one of the tests Gantoris had imposed upon him. He willed extra protection into his body, forming an imaginary sheath around his exposed skin, thin as a thought and strong as a thought.
He scanned the concerned faces in a flash, saw Kirana Ti close her green eyes and grit her teeth; middle-aged Kam Solusar stared at nothing, yet maintained a confident air; Streen, the Bespin cloud hermit, seemed not to understand, but he instinctively increased his protection.
As the large, shifting bubbles boiled to the surface, Dorsk 81, the yellow-skinned clone from the bureaucratic planet, scrambled toward the edge. Luke saw that he would never make it in time; unless Dorsk 81 set up his personal defenses in the next few seconds, he would be boiled as the hot gas escaped into the air.
Before Luke could move, Gantoris reached Dorsk 81, gripping the alien's naked shoulder with his callused hand. "Ride it with me!" Gantoris said, raising his voice above the hissing noise. Volcanic gas bubbles surged to the surface of the hot spring. Luke saw a wall of protection surround Gantoris and Dorsk 81, incredibly strong--and then the primal, potent gases belched around them, churning the water into a foaming fury.
Luke felt the stab of intense heat, but he willed it away. He could feel the strength grow as the candidates also understood and reinforced each other. The scalding onslaught lasted only a few seconds, and the boiling surface of the pool began to return to stillness.
The window to the universe had vanished.
"Enough for tonight," Luke said, sighing in satisfaction.
—Jedi Academy: Dark Apprentice
If you’re not convinced it is that basic, then shall we change your mind? If these mere trainees are able to form protective shields from nothing, some even do so instinctively, then a trained Master shall have no difficulty.
Like the Jedi and Sith, one of the first techniques Shadow Assassins learned was the creation of a Force barrier.
—Rule of Two
This most basic of abilities have been taught to both Sith, and Jedi from ancient times down to more modern days such as in the NJO Era. As it is a commonly used Force Ability, and Dark Woman herself is a Jedi Instructor, it’s obvious that this is an ability well within her arsenal. Now, due to her strength in the Force she is able to use abilities that left Jedi both confused and in awe, as reclusive as she was, her abilities were most uncommon, and unorthodox. With Force Phase she was able to bend her, and that of whatever space she was phasing through, physical matter and light to nothing, something even Masters of the Force such as Yoda never demonstrated despite his colossal strength in the Force, which is incredibly surprising given his knowledge of the Force. Dark Woman being so much of a threat to Sidious and Vader, that he did not trust powerful warriors like Jerec, The Dark Adepts, The Powerful Prophets to put her down speaks of just how powerful she was considered, not even a Woman that drew on Palpatine’s very own pool of power could be a match for a Master of Kuro’s caliber. And as we all know,a Force barrier is, much like Lightsaber combat, synonymous with Force Power, and as we all know, Kuro outclasses Sing in power.
Okay? And what is your point? Vader never used direct TK against An'ya Kuro which means her TK defenses cannot be scaled off of Vader. Aurra's own power is enough to blast An'ya Kuro off the edge of the arena which will kill An'ya because...lava
We’ll see.
Interesting but Aurra completely outclasses her in this area. Jacen Solo was unable to sense Aurra Sing when she was on his own capital ship when Jacen was sensing entire planets in the solar system.
How fortunate am I, then, to have a battle in which a Telepath of Vader’s caliber is able to be fooled by her, isn’t that right?
Im sorry what? Aayla was able to fool Quarra (just some dogs) not Aurra. In fact Aurra was the one fooling with Aayla before their battle.
Not so, Kuro and Tholme entered a meditative trance that so easily fooled Aurra into believing they were dead, which is pretty pathetic for her if we’re honest.
Before I move onto my conclusion I would like to point out another way that Aurra utterly wrecks An'ya, and that is via blasters. As shown by Coleman Trebor the skill of the shooter matters when it comes to the ability to defend against blaster fire. During the battle of Geanosis he was able to defend against large swarms of droids but as soon as he got pitted a competent shooter…
Really? Are you so afraid of a defeat that you resort to this?
Coleman got one shotted by a man who had already killed Jedi before, including the likes of Komari Vosa, the very man that stalemated Kenobi and was the most skilled bounty hunter. Of course Coleman got fodderized, this is utterly irrelevant to the debate at hand, I suggest you try a different course instead of embarrassing yourself.
Aura Sing has been shown to be able to pick apart the defenses of Jedi competent at deflecting blaster fire as shown by her defeat of Ahsoka Tano.
And her apparent skill has in fact wavered, it seems, given how she is unable to react fast enough to Padme Amidala’s Stun Blaster moments later. Shameful, really.
And Ahsoka is very skilled at deflecting blaster fire as she does so almost on a daily basis in the clone wars. An'ya Kuro on the other hand is weak against blaster fire and as soon as Aurra pulls out her blasters An'ya will just get gunned down in an instant. (she has her lightsaber drawn, is looking right at him and even Ki-Adi Mundi is reacting to this guy shooting. There is no reason in hell that An'ya shouldn't have deflected that if she were competent)
This is amusing. Are you this insecure of your argument? No matter, I’ll correct this. Aside from Kuro acknowledging her former apprentice immediately, thus lowering her guard, and seeing the familiar faces of Adi Gallia and of course the Quaren Senator, Kuro would have no reason to raise her weapon against her follow Jedi. Common sense. However, if we’re bringing these sort of things into account then well, lets see how well Aurra fairs against a competent Jedi Master, hmm?
Interesting, she is immediately speed blitzed by Plo Koon, a man below the likes of Darth Vader. Interesting to see that Aurra is susceptible to being speed blitzed by a combatant below Kuro. Let’s look at another example, perhaps a Jedi Knight?
Seems like Aurra is very susceptible to having her blaster fire redirected at her and getting blitzed by competent Jedi Masters, such as Kuro, so she gets her bolt redirected at her and then blitzed. It is not surprising, is it? This is all well within Kuro’s capability.
What an unsurprising outcome. Do you wish to continue? I’d consider these next steps very carefully, old friend. You’ve built something of a reputation here, it would be a shame to see it tarnished by such careless comments. If I were you I’d would end this argument here and attempt to save face.
An'ya Kuro isn't even comparable to Qui-Gon Jinn where as a pre prime Aurra is just below TPM Maul in skill.
Even if that were to be true(and it’s not) Vader via power scaling is still stronger than Maul as of TPM, and Kuro fought him. So Kuro is still>Aurra
Aurra has the Force edge and can just blast An'ya off the edge of the arena
Like that one time against Plo right? Or Ahsoka?
and Aurra can attack via blasters, something An'ya has been shown to be weak to.
And Kuro can just blitz her or redirect her blaster fire “something Aurra has been shown to be weak to.”
Right?
The only way An'ya can begin to take rounds against Aurra is via plant manipulation which you limited because of overconfidence.
How is it you remained an amateur at this after so long? I guess just being half trained by @darthant66 is still more than you can handle
Because of this An'ya is going to loose 10/10 rounds. She is completely outclassed.
Ignorance is sweet for the soul, as they say in Kurdish. We’ll let the dear public decide.
Those that wanted to be tagged have been. My post took too long due to a serious of hectic events, laziness and a shitload of sources to go through. But, as the saying goes not good can ever be done quickly.
Side Note: BJORK CV's lag.
@aurbere@darthant66@kj27@dadivineking@brightsteel@jarjarbinks@themuser@banthabot@emperordmb
@SilentBat: LMFAO. You win the award for post of the month Bud.
Log in to comment