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Soul Cartel's cosmology, characters' physiology, etc., explainded.

Decided to re-post this here, to give a major leeway to understand the series better, in case of lack of knowledge.

In case though, I am linking an old Gabramelek blog here, and in case of a few tiny mistakes, just use this post as a reference to understand.

Cosmology/overall scaling(from Cha Shi Hun)

The layers of the Underworld.

The Soul Cartel Underworld, is divided in three sections. Hell, Purgatory, Heaven.

Each of the section is divided in 9 floors. These floors, are actually, well, their own worlds, and are dimensionally separated from the other.

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To get past a floor, you need dimensional teleportation, or specific dimensional travel, or there is no other way. Keep in mind, some of these characters can break through dimensions, and escape them, so this should go without saying, they're not normal alternative dimensions.

Now, what's the structure of a floor? Simple, just a floor can:

•Contain infinite gates.

•Contain infinite mazes, to the point they're like a "small hill" in comparison:

No Caption Provided

The Maze? Yes, it's an infinite space created by Faust's mind through God's Papyrus, which lets him manifest infinite possibilities, because for one, it comes from his mind, which follows complex calculations to understand the realm of infinity.

A small hill, for a single floor, something Mastema can cross through.

•For extra, throughout the Underworld, 20 infinite sized pocket dimensions are contained:

In short, just the Underworld is a complex 27 layered structure, divided in three sections.

What about Gabramelek's world? It transcends all of it.

It's something that goes beyond Hell, Purgatory, and seemingly Heavens, bar God's highest layer (which Gabramelek planned to break through as well, but that is irrelevant here).

Now, what can Gabramelek do with his world? He can absorb it and its power:

Or rather, the parallel worlds to it. How does Cha perform? He is capable of matching Gabramelek after the latter absorbs one of the worlds, being described as a transcendental being beyond the soul and mind, who becomes the world itself.

Demonstrating an absurd level of reactive evolution, and later goes on to tank 12 parallel worlds slamming into him:

And it's shown that he did, in fact, survive:

No Caption Provided

So, Cha is pretty powerful overall. Keep in mind he matched the speed of Gabramelek, someone who is a walking world, on top, Cha is someone capable of harboring infinite possibilities within himself, per his, and Faust's description:

Gabramelek himself can move when time as a whole collapses across his whole transcendental universe:

•In the first four scans, it is explained how the time in Gabramelek's world is stored;

•In the last five scans, Cha collapses the Babel Tower by punching Gabramelek into it, and Gabramelek keeps moving just fine, added on top of the fact even Mastema traverses infinite distances like nothing, it's clear speed doesn't matter much for Cha and co.

I'd like to add, the infinite particles inside of Gabramelek, are what expand his world:

No Caption Provided

Yet Cha could still be a threat to him. Needless to say:

•Speed is irrelevant to Cha, he is infinite/immeasurable, or whatever you want to go by, it's hard to have him being blitzed;

•He transcends infinite possibilities, he is an existence comparable to Gabramelek's "world", in fact he is the world, beyond things such as mind and soul;

•He can punch an abstract being such as Gabramelek in the face;

•He has crazy reactive evolution, going from being stomped to matching Gabramelek himself;

•He has enough durability to survive 12 of those worlds clashing on him, at the very least.

...

Arch-Devil physiology (for Mephisto)

As Gairon presents, the Arch-Devil Mephistopheles and Beelzebub, utilize, respectively, "overwhelm" and "fear".

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What does this mean? Take in example, Beelzebub, his mere presence induces fear. Because he is the Arch-Devil of "slaughter", and slaughter is the root of fear.

Now take, whose source of power is the root of life and death, the "Earth". Meanwhile Uriel's, would be the "Sun", the light that gives power to creation, stated here again(linking imgurs I found 'cause too lazy to make some myself).

What does this entail? Simple, considering that the physiology of the Arch-Angels and the Arch-Devils is the identical same, and that they use their heart as their source of power(and keep in mind that Uriel's is the "sun", Raphael's is the "earth", etc.), it would make them have an abstract, meta-physical physiology by default, as the "heart" explicitly goes beyond soul and body too, not to mention the souls and bodies of Arch-Angels/Arch-Devils being fused into one, so they're just a unified existence between the two components, and the "Heart" is even deeper.

In conclusion, they can regenerate as long as their "heart", isn't destroyed. Their heart, having a conceptual, meta-physical nature behind it all, but not only, the body of an Arch-Devil, is basically just a component of Lucifer.

Lucifer's Esoterism and Asmodeus.

Simply put, a power that comes from a different dimension entirely when compared to the Underworld. Just a small portion of it as presented, distorts the space of the dimension passively, proving its extra dimensional nature.

Now, Mephistopheles, at his best, has the full power of the Esoterism.

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The power of the 4 Arch-Devils combined, an ever, infinitely growing power, to the point that even when Gabramelek copied it, he failed.

Gabramelek could be considered straight up omnipotent in his world, as he is straight up god. He decides the absolute rules.

Yet he couldn't copy Asmodeus properly, and later Asmodeus killed/erased him in two blows.

And Yeah, Gabramelek and his whole Transcendental being physiology? Vanished.

^And his universe collapsing due to it is the proof. With that said, Mephistopheles is pretty strong, as he is "two-shot" tiers above Gabramelek, with endless reactive evolution to become stronger, infinitely, Lucifer's Esoterism transcending even Gabramelek's world and its laws, completely erasing Gabramelek, and his being, out of existence.

...

Thank you for reading.

1 Comments

Respect, Cha Shi Hun, transcendental annihilation.

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Decided to post this, in case knowledge regarding the character was required. In blog format, it certainly will help more.

...

The layers of the Underworld.

The Soul Cartel Underworld, is divided in three sections. Hell, Purgatory, Heaven.

Each of the section is divided in 9 floors. These floors, are actually, well, their own worlds, and are dimensionally separated from the other.

No Caption Provided

To get past a floor, you need dimensional teleportation, or specific dimensional travel, or there is no other way. Keep in mind, some of these characters can break through dimensions, and escape them, so this should go without saying, they're not normal alternative dimensions.

Now, what's the structure of a floor? Simple, just a floor can:

•Contain infinite gates.

•Contain infinite mazes, to the point they're like a "small hill" in comparison:

No Caption Provided

The Maze? Yes, it's an infinite space created by Faust's mind through God's Papyrus, which lets him manifest infinite possibilities, because for one, it comes from his mind, which follows complex calculations to understand the realm of infinity.

A small hill, for a single floor, something Mastema can cross through.

•For extra, throughout the Underworld, 20 infinite sized pocket dimensions are contained:

In short, just the Underworld is a complex 27 layered structure, divided in three sections.

What about Gabramelek's world? It transcends all of it.

It's something that goes beyond Hell, Purgatory, and seemingly Heavens, bar God's highest layer (which Gabramelek planned to break through as well, but that is irrelevant here).

Now, what can Gabramelek do with his world? He can absorb it and its power:

Or rather, the parallel worlds to it. How does Cha perform? He is capable of matching Gabramelek after the latter absorbs one of the worlds, being described as a transcendental being beyond the soul and mind, who becomes the world itself.

Demonstrating an absurd level of reactive evolution, and later goes on to tank 12 parallel worlds slamming into him:

And it's shown that he did, in fact, survive:

No Caption Provided

So, Cha is pretty powerful overall. Keep in mind he matched the speed of Gabramelek, someone who is a walking world, on top, he harbors infinite possibilities within himself per his and Faust's description:

Gabramelek himself can move when time as a whole collapses across his whole transcendental universe:

•In the first four scans, it is explained how the time in Gabramelek's world is stored;

•In the last five scans, Cha collapses the Babel Tower by punching Gabramelek into it, and Gabramelek keeps moving just fine, added on top of the fact even Mastema traverses infinite distances like nothing, it's clear speed doesn't matter much for Cha and co.

I'd like to add, the infinite particles inside of Gabramelek, are what expand his world:

No Caption Provided

Yet Cha could still be a threat to him. Needless to say:

•Speed is irrelevant to Cha, he is infinite/immeasurable, or whatever you want to go by, it's hard to have him being blitzed;

•He transcends infinite possibilities, he is an existence comparable to Gabramelek's "world", in fact he is the world, beyond things such as mind and soul;

•He can punch an abstract being such as Gabramelek in the face;

•He has crazy reactive evolution, going from being stomped to matching Gabramelek himself;

•He has enough durability to survive 12 of those worlds clashing on him, at the very least.

...

Thanks for reading.

1 Comments

CaV entry: The Miracle of God, Gerard Valkyrie.

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M, for the Miracle.

When all strenght is lost, what would be needed to pull through? When all hope vanishes, what would be the only key for victory? When there is not a conceivable way to win, truly, a victory would be nothing less than...

A Miracle.

...

1 Comments

Saint Seiya: official series blog(debunking the most notorious downplay, misconceptions, and lies).

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Greetings.

This blog, was probably expected, I know, but nonetheless, it's something I find to be a duty even, to present the general level of the Saint Seiya franchise... while debunking notorious lies and downplay, that is.

Nonetheless, both are rather important objectives for this blog. I will present all the mechanics of the verse(taken from previous blogs of mine), and add new interesting arguments and scans, to clear certain misconceptions.

Saint Seiya is certainly not a simple verse to understand when taken as a whole, even if it may look simplistic at a first glance, let's see why...

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Ability/functionExplanation
Cosmo.

The latent power of every Saint.

It exists in everything, the body, life, the soul, the whole universe. Manipulating Cosmo, is the capability of destroying the atoms themselves. Everything is made out of atoms, the planets, the stars, the whole universe, born from the Big Bang. The most proficient use Cosmo, is through triggering the "mini-universe" inside of any Saint, and making it explode, just like the Big Bang.

It is invisible for non Cosmo users.

Senses.The extra-sensorial capabilities of Saints or Gods, which come along with extra advantages/abilities. The 7th sense, is usually "perfection", the mastery of Cosmo itself, which is why Gold Saints are known for their strenght. But the 7th sense, in reality, isn't the limit...
Cloth:The protection, granted from Athena, Goddess of War, to her devoted Saints. Through it, their statistics are massively upgraded, and so is their durability. They can survive otherwise lethal attacks thanks to it, but not only...certain Cloths, grant specific advantages and resistances. There are 88 Cloths in total, with only 12 of them being Gold Cloths, and the remaining 76 belonging to the Bronze and Silver class. The Kamui Cloths, are the ones that put a Saint on the level of the Gods, but they're moreso, a legend, and barely obtainable even in-verse.
Godly Ichor:The blood of the gods themselves. It grants several resistances and even advantages, and it's something that no mortal generally possesses...except a few.
Miracles:By burning their Cosmo to the limits and beyond, the Saints can turn impossibilities into possibilities. Something that lets mortals to defy the gods themselves.
Dunamis:The Divine Cosmo of the Gods, naturally superior to the Cosmo of the mortals.

Unique abilities:

Every Saint possesses an ability unique to themselves, be it regarding physical strenght, esoteric powers, speed, etc.

Cosmo: The power of the "big bang", the Seventh Sense.

Cosmo, the most important, fundamental element in the Saint Seiya world. Everything that exists in the universe, was originally created by the big bang. All the stars, nebulaes, galaxies, are composed of atoms, something any Cosmo user, learn to destroy while just Saints in training. And by that, I mean, anyone. They all target the very atomic structure of an object to destroy it, negating its durability altogether. Some advanced uses of Cosmo, even lets you achieve destruction on a quantum level, on both physical and spiritual plane, with the mildest of Cosmo users being capable of destroying on a level beyond even quarks. The Cloths themselves, are equipped with mini-black holes, that warp space itself, yet, these Cloths' durability is multiple times bypassed. The weakest Cloth, has multiple times over, the equivalent of 20 nukes, being detonated all at once on the surface of an asteroid with 10 kilometers of lenght, with the potency of the explosion compressing the whole body. Thus it's a no brainer that this level of atomic destruction, goes well beyond the normal, and is actually layered in nature, due to the multiple showings of resistances to such being bypassed.

Proficient Cosmo users, are capable of producing extreme levels of heat, reaching millions of degrees, from there, the "burn my Cosmo", is actually literal in the very sense.

Or even, transcend the very laws of physics:

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The capacity to destroy souls, comes as a feeble, any Cosmo user can pretty much affect someone on a spiritual plane as well, someone like Cancer Deathmask, a low tier Gold Saint, can effectively destroy near 20 billion souls in one single shot. And of course, how can we forget the typical, "an ability never works twice on a saint", which well, tells you everything. After understanding how such an ability, that previously affected them, works, they'll be immune to it, becoming resistant.

But besides that, we have one of the most unique power systems you might find around, always through the applications of Cosmo, and...

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The Senses. Besides the five senses, known to everyone, it exists a sixth sense, the one of precognition and intuition, what lets you perceive everything around yourself, your very mind.

But besides that, the source of Cosmo itself, is...the 7th sense, Cosmo itself, what lets a Saint achieve Miracles, by turning impossibilities in possibilities, it being present in anyone's soul, just deep down, locked.

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In short, the highest possible level of Cosmo, a mortal can achieve. To give you an example, Virgo Shaka deprived Ikki Phoenix, of his 6 senses:

Yet, due to his 7th sense, Cosmo, he was still able to fight and move, proving how this goes beyond the mere mind and body's functions, but its fundamental functions are on a deep, spiritual level. And keep in mind, anyone with 6th sense, can use Cosmo already.

The infinite human potential, is what lets them achieve Miracles. To against fate, the set destiny, and manifesting an impossible reality, being the "hero" of the world.

And that's impressive, when the gods quite literally oppose humans by manipulating fate(cough Karma a concept) itself, utterly making it an impossible struggle to go against them, without failing miserably.

And this...this is almost poetic. Once again, always because of Miracles, the infinite human potential, their infinite possibilities.

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Being brought into reality, through their Cosmo, even killing the gods themselves, and bypassing their defenses.

The Arayashiki: awakening of the Eighth Sense:

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Virgo Shaka, Gold Saint of the Virgo constellation.

We've already presented an introduction of the 8th sense, but I believe it should be made clear, what it entails.

The life beyond death, defying the imposed laws imposed by Hades, lord of the Underworld, and not dying while in his domain. It's an estabilished law of death, and being in the Underworld, means losing your own personality and identity:

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The Alaya Consciousness, which lets the Saints survive in the Underworld, by having authority over their own soul, controlling it to the fullest. The 8th sense, is nothing more than being one with the Alaya "Network", the main component of the world, which goes beyond time and space. The ability to move between dimensions, even higher ones.

Transcending death itself, the 8th sense is even superior to the 7th sense, it's something that goes beyond just Cosmo...

The Alaya Consciousness (from Sanskrit àlaya-vijnana) is also called "the alaya receptacle of perceptions" or "the repository of karma." It is the eighth of the nine consciousnesses. It is located at a deeper level than the ordinary consciousness. It is so called because all the karma created during the present, past, and future lives are stored there. This "deep-to-laya" is considered to be that which passes through the cycle of birth and death, and forms the framework of an individual existence. All the acts and experiences of life that pass through the first seven levels of consciousness are accumulated as karma in this âlaya-bottom, which in turn influences the functioning of the other consciousnesses, arguing that all phenomena originate from the âlaya-consciousness and that it is therefore the one and only reality.

The nine consciousnesses are nine kinds of discernment. The

The term "consciousness" is a translation of the Sanskrit word vijnana, which means "discernment". > These are

-1- visual awareness (chakshur-vijnana)

-2- auditory awareness (shrota-vijnana)

-3- Olfactory awareness (ghrana-vijnana)

-4- Taste awareness (jhiva-vijnana)

-5- tactile awareness (kaya-vijnana)

-6- mental awareness (mano-vijnana)

-7- the mano consciousness (mano-vijnana) [identical name for the 6th and the 7th].

The first five consciousnesses correspond to the five senses. The sixth integrates the perceptions of the five senses into coherent images and evaluates the external world.

It means being one with the network that encompasses all the past, present, and future, your consciousness/mind, is one with it, your very soul gains independence. In conclusion, the 8th sense, is a layer of the conscience that lets you transcend the dimensions of space, move through different, complex dimensions, understand the flow of Karma, the Alayashiki network, and go beyond just "life and death".

To exist in multiple dimensions at the same time, in a world unknown..

An ascension of the soul, in a higher dimension.

Debunking some misconceptions regarding the 8th sense:

There are a few of wrong assumptions and straight up fanfictions even when it comes to the 8th sense. For one, the supposed physical "regeneration", which is, well, headcanon as it never happened.

Shaka got physically destroyed, as that was his plan all along. But later in the story, he has never shown regeneration, there's literally not a shred of evidence that presents any sort of regenerative capabilities from the 8th sense, on the contrary..

Asmita's physical body got destroyed to create beads that would have nullified the Specters' immortality(and in fact Asmita is blind, so the one that looked at Tenma was his soul which laters vanishes), and what remained was his soul(as you later just sees there the Gold Cloth of Virgo and that's it.

A boy who somehow managed to tap into the Alaya Consciousness, couldn't regenerate at all, which furtherly implies how the 8th sense is not something that grants you physical regeneration.

And then...

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You have the souls, of literally deceased, as in dead(confirmed through the whole story of Next Dimension that the Gold Saints are dead), physically dead at least, Gold Saints, crossing space and time to save Athena..but they never regenerated their soul, them not doing it, when they can, would be completely idiotic and a lack of understanding of the nature of the Gold Saints, which is, to help Athena, no matter what. Which presents more consistency, in proving how the 8th sense is an ascension of the soul to a higher dimension, them being unbound by space or time, the 4-D space-time continuum, the souls existing beyond a thin, impenetrable membrane, which wraps around the whole space-time, thus the "mathematical" higher dimension, would be 5-D, as it transcends an infinite cosmology, transcending space, and even time.

However, the 8th sense would grant regeneration of the soul, as it's clear the souls of the Gold Saints, were destroyed at the Wall of Lamentation.

right to left

And it mentions how their physical bodies were already obliterated...yet they never regenerated. So it's clear, the 8th sense would be:

•Space-time transcendance of the soul, on a higher dimensional plane, granting it complete immortality;

•Regeneration of the soul, even when it's destroyed;

•Resistance to law manipulation;

•Transcendance of life and death.

The Amalashiki: The "nothingness" of the Ninth Sense.

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The Dunamis, the peak of the nine senses of the consciousness, in Saint Seiya. The 8th sense, nothing to such a level of power, it being the pure void and nothingness, that covers everything.

As we presented already, the power that creates, and extends the universe ad infinitum, is Dunamis. Everything in creation, every single component, comes from it, the primordial chaos.

Because the Dunamis, is Chaos. Everything is turned into absolute nothingness, even something that threaten the whole structure of the Underworld, and is capable of punching through it, separating the border between life and death.

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"Ekor Spirit Blood The "blue blood" that flows through the gods, the source of their great power and immortality. The term "spirit blood" refers to that blood in which the microcosm of God is condensed. It is said that the spirit blood has the power to heal all wounds and illnesses of people, and the spirit blood of the goddess has been passed down as a treasure in the sanctuary since time immemorial."

"The Dunamis is the pure power of the ancient goddess who gave birth to the world, and who gives birth to all things and destroys all things. Its power, which far exceeds the microcosm possessed by the saints, can freely release and decompose the atoms that form all phenomena, and is truly the power of the gods."

This from the Galaxian Encyclopedia.

Aiolos, claims himself capable of conquering the Underworld through this power. But for more...

Zeus/Aiolia, someone with the Ninth sense, erased the Underworld, one of the worlds, with a single, Lightning Void. Something beyond the scope of space and time, completely destroyed, fallen into ebony darkness. The endless souls in it, completely condemned, and destined to disappear due to this immense power.

But there's more:

Unlike the first six consciousnesses, which concern the outer world, the seventh, or "mano consciousness", discerns the inner spiritual world. Self-awareness and attachment to the self would have their origin in it, as would the ability to distil good and evil. The eighth, or "âlaya consciousness," is considered the basis of all life functions. The ninth consciousness, the "amala consciousness," located at a deeper level, is free of all karmic impurities that may be present in the álaya consciousness. This ninth consciousness is defined as the basis of all spiritual functions and corresponds to the true entity of life, the state of "Buddha" ("awakened" in Sanskrit).

The Ninth Consciousness, the "amala consciousness", leaves you free of karmic impurities, and of its eternal cycle.

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The clashing thoughts destroying the previous eight senses, until nothing remains, bringing forth true chaos and a void, erasing the alaya consciousness, and bringing forth "amalashiki", or so we can call it.

Such an immense burden on the mind, that can destroy even the eighth consciousness, should already tell enough of the ridiculous potency of the ninth consciousness. And it basically makes any attempt of attacking the mind of these individuals, useless, as there's basically nothing to control, said "nothingness", going beyond the infinite network that is alaya, someone that with the eighth sense can understand and become one with.

In short: Amala Consciousness/Ninth Sense=nothingness, chaos>>Alaya Consciousness/Eighth Sense==>one with the infinite flow of Karma, and its network, across past, present and future>>life, death, time and space.

...

After presenting the basics, I'd like to estabilish the cosmology of Saint Seiya...in a more particular style this time :). But first of all, I'd like to estabilish that Episode G, is in fact, canon:

Q) "Saint Seiya episode G comes as a real surprise. Why start now with episode G?"

Kurumada: "My answer to this will be the same as George Lucas' answer to the production of his Star Wars Episode 1. The right environment for what I imagine to materialize just happened. In the context of a film, this refers to digital imagery or new technologies, for a manga it refers to the circumstances of the environment."

Source.

...

AL: "Besides the series Ring ni Kakero 2, which you write and draw yourself, in 2002 you brought us the beginning of Saint Seiya Episode G, drawn by Megumu Okada, and also the new saga of Fuma no Kojira, drawn by your direct disciple Satoshi Yuri. Can you tell us more about these projects?"

MK: "I develop a supervision over them, however the artists are totally free to develop the plot. Megumu Okada has made a trully impressive work, but he prints on it his own style and story. Satoshi Yuri is very responsible and works very seriously. He is my student, we work on the same studio, therefore I can take more of my time with his work than with Episode G."

Saint Seiya: The Lost Canvas? An alternative timeline. Does this man in a wheelchair look familiar?

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It sure does to me. As claimed by Kairos, it is Seiya, in the future, something that changes based on the taken choices. For example, killing Shion, would have made such a future impossible.

The factor of "canonicity", will surely be brought up, but there's one thing...nothing proves these mangas aren't canon, because they belong to the manga-verse of the Saint Seiya franchise.

They'd be, alternative timelines, worlds, dimensions...which I am going to prove, in the next section.

The world: Infinity that stretches to infinity...

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This world...a parallel world!

The basis of the Saint Seiya multiverse(s), its foundations, based on the multiple existing universes, in an endless chain.

You don't get it? Don't worry, I am here to explain!

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Universes, multiverses, existing next to each other. The people of these parallel worlds coming into contact with each other, will simply go through the process of memory sharing, acquiring every single memory of their parallel version, even if dead.

With this said...how many universes though? To this, we have an answer in Saint Seiya: Episode G Requiem, with the universe being described as infinite multi dimensional, with infinite presents, infinite dimensions, existing in a single space-time continuum. Which would make a singular universe, by default, its own multiverse in all rights.

But...multiverses, actually exist, due to this, a single universe, would already be a multiverse, and how many "multiverses"?

Oh well, infinite, as the futures (own universes) branch off forever.

Any point in time, would be its own independent universe(multiverse), as a day in the future, could take years in the past time axis.

And as infinite presents are proven to exist, each of them would be its own world, with infinite dimensions/parallel worlds.

For supportive evidence, we have Saint Seiya: Dark Wing, mentioning infinite worlds/universes, while also mentioning the warriors from the different worlds(cough cough Seiya cough), something that'd actually prove the existence of infinite "multiverses".

To summarize, a singular universe=infinite multi dimensional, with infinite dimensions/worlds, and each world would then be independent and keep branching forever through parallel worlds.

Of these universes (multiverses), exists an infinite amount, from this, an infinite amount of infinite multiverses. How is this important? Because as I've proven, 8th sense users can have access to a higher dimensional plane, beyond space and time, thus transcending the very multiverse, yet they're pathetically inferior to gods, and if the "Divine Will" section isn't enough, I'll present the God Cloths being mauled by Hades, while the god not being in his true form, inhabitating Shun's body...in Lost World, a parallel world. And at that point, the Saints clearly achieved the 8th sense/Alaya Consciousness:

As, well, to reach the Underworld, they needed it to begin with.

The Ninth Sense is a state completely beyond the Eighth Sense, and while I guess you may argue Hades doesn't possess it, that would be kind of weird, when Zeus-Aiolia/Shura, clearly refers to the gods, in general, when they mention Dunamis and the Ninth Sense:

While also re-mentioning, how gods aren't bound by karma whatsoever, that being something they manipulate, fate itself, is in their hands.

Right to left.

Karma, in whatever the universe, world, dimension, being pre-determinated by the gods, as shown with the Great God Zeus.

By default, gods would be unbound by such a thing, unless it's practiced in their own system, as shown with Cronus' destiny being affected by Uranus himself:

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From this we get, the "system of fate of the gods", and the "system of fate of the mortals".

Here, proven how the constellations guide a Saint's fate. This, proven once again, in Santia Sho, even with the Santias.

More examples of imposed destiny, here:

Right to left.

So it's clear, the fate the gods impose upon the cosmology, is not something that binds them, they're at best, bound by their own fate, and their own logic.

The Gold Cloths: The power to withstand big bangs.

The Gold Cloths, are considered to be the pinnacle among the three kinds, Bronze, Silver, and Gold.

With that said, any Cloth is already incredible, because they can withstand attacks on a sub atomic level, through installed micro black holes that warp space:

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"The first problem that arose during the project was to select which material would be used to create the Cloths. Even with the understanding that the Cloths were a kind of armor designed to protect the bodies of the Saints, there lacked a material capable of withstanding the attacks of these warriors, whose immense destructive power resided in the destruction of the atoms. But as all matter is made of atoms themselves, such a material could not exist. With the exception of one thing: They had to study a real Cloth.

Dr. Asamori then began working on the Research Center to study the Sagittarius Gold Cloth which Mitsumasa Kido had brought back from Greece. In other words, he attempted to create an imitation of the Gold Cloth. He pushes his research studies to the molecular level, then to the atomic level, until he reached the study of the elementary particles and even that of quarks themselves, but he could not understand why the Cloths had this mysterious capability to endure this incredible power of atomic destruction (Which would then suggest the existence of something on a level deeper than that of quarks). After realizing that he could never replicate a true Gold Cloth, Dr. Asamori decided to redirect his research towards a different approach. And that would be to create Mechanical Cloths which focused the power of all modern scientific knowledge.

The attacks of the Saints were capable of destroying their target on an atomic level, therefore there was nothing to worry about in the first place even if they never reached the opponent. Dr. Asamori then started with the theoretical concept that the Cloths were capable of distorting space and immediately began his experiments. And in that age, the only known thing capable of distorting space itself was the force exerted by the gravitational wave of a Black Hole. But to create an artificial Black Hole and incorporate it into the Cloths' framework was far too much work for just one man. And so Dr. Asamori left it to the Graad Foundation to establish collaborations with NASA, the Pentagon and the Jet Propulsion Laboratory.

Theoretical knowledge regarding the creation of an Artificial Black Hole was something that was known since Einstein's time. It would be necessary to place 20 atomic bombs on an asteroid 10 kilometers in length and have them all detonate simultaneously so that the potency of their explosion would compress the asteroid's whole body. When compressed to a size smaller than that of an atom, it would be transformed into a micro-Black Hole. Dr. Asamori then thought it would be best to confine it within a Magnetic Field. And after countless failed attempts he was finally able to create and contain three Black Holes. Equipped with these micro-Black Holes, the Steel Cloths acquired a perfect defensive capability and a nearly unlimited energy source"

This from low tier Cloths, so imagine the one of a Gold Saint. The Cosmo of a Gold Saint, makes radiations useless, granting an immunity to such, and Gold Cloths are capable of withstanding Galaxian Explosions, something with the power to destroy galaxies.

This is not all, however.

The Athena Exclamation, the power of the big bang focused on a single point, used against for the first time in Saint Seiya, by Saga, Shura and Camus, on Virgo Shaka.

As you can see here, Shaka was clearly hit, and destroyed on a physical level by the Athena Exclamation.

But the Gold Cloth remained intact, as during the events of the Wall of Lamentation and in the Underworld, Shaka's soul.clearly wears a Gold Cloth.

Now, there are a few misconceptions, regarding this specific topic...

"The Cloth Shaka wore was spiritual!!"

That's clearly impossible, as the Gold Cloths store sunlight since the age of the myths. And in the Underworld, sunlight doesn't exist.

"Shaka died, he was destroyed!"

Shaka never died, as you need to enter the Underworld alive,

So it's clear Shaka only "died" on a physical level, but through the awakening of the 8th sense just before death, he was capable to remain "alive", and reach the Underworld.

They clearly saw Shaka's soul after the Athena Exclamation, but it doesn't mean his Cloth was destroyed...in fact, Shun wears a physical Gold Cloth, in Elysium. Guess which Cloth? Exactly the one and only, Gold Cloth of Virgo.

So it's pretty clear cut, the Gold Cloths can withstand straight up focused big bangs, proven once again, when Saga, Camus and Shura, with their surplices, withstand the clash of two Athena Exclamations.

Even Minos, with his Surplice, could survive the Gold Saints' final attack against the Wall of Lamentation:

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*One of the Three Generals of the Underworld. Since he is on good terms with Rhadamanthys and Aiakos, they are comrades, but they keep each other in check. With a calm personality, he accurately reads the battle situation and determines the next move. As the last survivor of the Three Generals, he pursues Seiya and his friends heading for Elysium, but he is blocked by Hyoga. He tries to fight despite receiving the Aurora Execution, but he steps into the Hyperdimension, is swallowed beyond the dimension and is annihilated.*

*→Before the mortal technique [COSMIC MARIONATION], even Kanon finds himself in a dilemma. *

*→He survived while being caught in the explosion created by the Cosmos of the 12 Gold Saints.*

So it's blatant and obvious, the Gold Cloths are extremely durable and extremely resistant to multiple types of phenomenas.

The God Cloths: Infinitely higher Cosmo.

The ultimate level a Cloth can achieve.

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These Cloths, are extremely rare, obtained when a Cloth is imbued with the blood of a God, and the Cosmo is raised infinitely higher. This, consistent with the fact that humans have an infinite potential they can bring out, reaching literal infinity, infinite power, and so on, to face the gods.

The impressive thing of these Cloths, besides their incredible power and speed which borders on literal infinity, and when you take in consideration impressive speed feats like users of the boots of Hermes reaching the edge of the universe in seconds, the infamous speed feat of Capricorn Shura exceeding the speed of the initial universal inflation, and the same Bronze Cloths crossing the Hyperdimension, literal light years, the level of these Cloths is rivaled or surpassed only by the Gods themselves in most cases.

These Cloths, protected by a god's divine blood, are granted resistance against the very world itself trying to kill someone, being erased from space-time, history, and so forth. In short, they're very resistant to such phenomanas, space-time, causality, historical ones, all being useless against the divine armors.

The Divine Cloths would also be resistant to stats/power nullification induced passively by Hades' castle:

And any sort of illness:

"Ekor Spirit Blood The "blue blood" that flows through the gods, the source of their great power and immortality. The term "spirit blood" refers to that blood in which the microcosm of God is condensed. It is said that the spirit blood has the power to heal all wounds and illnesses of people, and the spirit blood of the goddess has been passed down as a treasure in the sanctuary since time immemorial."-source, Galaxian Encyclopedia.

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Paracelsus mentions how curing any sort of injury would make him "omnipotent", and how those that fought against gods cannot be cured, clearly implying how gods, are in a completely different realm when it comes to types of injuries and their cure to them.

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CaV entry #2: DB debunk+extra scaling for Hades.

Destroying a dream...

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My opponent's answer was certainly... something, to say the least, but heh, with my CaVs at this point, that is something to expect.

Before adding some spicy, extra win-conditions on Hades' side, I'd like to first throughouly disassemble the lunacy of using Koyama, a non canon screen writer, for canon DBZ/DBS.

The mortal universe being infinite? A falsehood!

Let's bring an example of mentions of infinite universe for Dragon Ball.

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The endless, expansive space. Truly, there is no way to not consider such a claim viable for an infinite sized universal cosmology-

Oh wait, that's contradicted by the official, canon sources, the manga and the anime:

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Jaco mentions countless galaxies, but Bulma mentions not the center of the Milky Way, but of the entire universe...needless to say, an infinite universe cannot have a center or an edge, as that's a logical fallacy.

And by this, I can confirm:

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Koyama is completely unreliable, because his claims contradict the original material by quite a bit(although from what I understand, Dragon Ball fans don't exactly watch or read the material they highball with so much love), what's more?

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Considering we like to use Twitter statements and guides, let's present how the mortal universe in Dragon Ball resembles reality or any Sci-Fi setting's. Thus, not an infinite sized space, just very, very big, which contradicts the whole notion of infinite mortal world.

1) The Kanzenshuu made a pretty good post detailing how the Dragon Ball cosmology works.

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Whis explains that the Dragon Ball multiverse is formed, first of all, of 12 universes. It also contains separate places such as Zeno's Palace and the World of Void. It's also rumoured to contain the location of Zalama, founder of the Super Dragon Balls.

Now, in Dragon Ball, every universe, including Universe 7 where Goku and friends live, as well as Universe 11 where Jiren lives, is described as a macrocosm:

Before continuing though, I denote the lack of respect by linking me an outdated post regarding the Dragon Ball cosmology, instead of presenting arguments of your own (you basically pulled a Xana), and I also denote the self realization, by showing orbs with an edge, for supposedly infinite sized universes, which I understand, you agree with me the Dragon Ball universe is impossible to be infinite due to the narrative of the show telling us so.

Nonetheless:

Earth.

Both the Kaioshin Realm and the Afterlife act as observing realms to the Living World. Takao Koyama, the screenwriter of the Dragon Ball series, believes the Kaioshin Realm is a world above 5D. His opinion, to be frank, matters much more than mine or yours, even though he is not Toriyama himself.

Are you sure we should be taking his opinion for granted, because it's weird...

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Surely, just a one-time only event-

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Oh, it happens again, about him claiming himself to be a "chief lighter up", to DBZ.

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And here, he claims, himself, how what he states should not be in conflict with the settings of the original. He, himself, claoms he is unreliable...

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...and that's clearly the case, with "infinite sized" mortal world.

As a consequence, Koyama's Twitta are completely unusable and unreliable, it amounts to using fanfictions, really, that's the level of wrong in using them.

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And following Koyama's Twitts, this matchup is impossible to happens, as these two characters cannot fight, because from two different works. See how silly it is to use them? Good, next.

Beyond space-time Afterlife? Nothing but a lie.

The Afterlife is described as a transcendental "heavenly country" that cannot be perceived from the human realm. It is perceived by humans as an entirely separate universe. The DBZ RPG Databook also claims the Afterlife, or the Other World, are in the "higher dimensions" and that it is an entire universe with its own rules.

Heaven was described as "wide as the universe" and Hell is way bigger than Heaven.

The fact that the Otherworld is a "higher dimension", while nice for it being mentioned in the databook for a RPG DBZ game, is contradicted by the source material itself:

Hmm, let's see:

1. The Otherworld has a flow of time, with Goku specifically taking 6 months to reach the end of Snake-Way, something which has a lenght, thus space, with King Yemma having taken supposedly "millions of years" to reach its end of a million kilometers.

2. There's clear panic for Goku not being capable to reach the Earth in time, as it would have taken at least two days, which means...Earth being already space dust at that point, as the Saiyans would have destroyed it by then.

And this:

Contradicts the screen-writer with no authority, on the source material itself, the same screen-writer that claimed the Otherworld it's beyond dimensions and space.

Other sources place the Kaioshin Realm as it being at least being 1/10 the size of the universe.

Which makes it a finite realm, thus contradicting all of your claims.

Therefore, the Universe 7 macrocosm itself can be argued to be at least 4D, but because the Kaioshin Realm is implied to be a higher spatial dimension, it is a very reasonable claim to place Universe 7 as a 5D structure (low-complex multiversal), with four spatial dimensions.

Higher spatial dimension of what transcendance? Plus, contradicted by the evidence presented above, the Otherworld is part of the universe's space-time pretty much.

Now, in Dragon Ball Super, Infinite Zamasu was trying to become one with the universe. He was also affecting the present as sensed by Whis and Beerus.

And that's cool, how is this relevant to Jiren.

Which finally brings us to Jiren, described as the mightiest foe in Dragon Ball history, placing him above Infinite Zamasu. Jiren was described to be as powerful as a God of Destruction, and as seen in the scans above, Beerus was just observing in a more or less curious manner how Zamasu would develop. It is possible that over time, Zamasu would have invaded all timelines in Universe 7 and possibly the entire multiverse.

Sadly that means nothing, as Jiren's power has no correlation to Zamasu's dimensional existence, Jiren's physical power is not dimensional existence so I don't see the comparison here.

But because Beerus was mostly unfazed by Zamasu's attempt, it seems to me as Zamasu is no threat to Beerus. This makes sense when you consider that gods of destruction die if you just kill the Kaioshin, which are way weaker and is how probably Zamasu killed all the gods in Future Trunks's timeline.

Based on what would Infinite Zamasu be a non threat to Beerus? Source: "Trust me bro."

?

Because Jiren is in the domains of a God of Destruction, it makes sense that he is stronger than Infinite Zamasu.

Stronger? Perhaps, on the same level of dimensional existence (4-D at best)? Based on nothing, really.

The lord of the Underworld, taking the Grey's head on a silver plate!?

So..

) Hades, the opponent of Jiren, is surely a powerful foe himself. He is able to maintain Elysium, Hell, and the Hyperdimension (which was described to contain at least "10 billion lights", placing it as a small galaxy to multi-galaxy level structure depending on the translation). From my understanding, Elysium would be the equivalent of Heaven in the Dragon Ball universe. At the temple of Hades is where his real body can be found. However, in this battle we assume that Hades is fighting with his real body against Jiren.

When did we assume he can fight his real body? Jiren would need the necessary requirements to even touch a higher dimensional being, you provided none. And Elysium is straight up a dimension which is beyond the scope of the whole Saint Seiya multiverse, I'd like to know how does Heaven compare, with its puny finite universal size, in comparison to literal infinity.

Hades was bitchslapping Seiya who was "raising his cosmo to the infinite" against Thanatos, upon remembering his elder sister and Athena. Hades took out the 5 gold saints by himself in fact, before being defeated by Athena.

Sure..

However, Hades does not appear to possess the same martial art skills as Jiren does. This is important because it implies Hades and Saint Seiya characters do not have the ability to keep control over their ki/cosmo to the level Dragon Ball characters can. Cosmo is the equivalent of ki in the Dragon Ball universe, so it's a pretty decent equivalence.

Martial arts matter little, especially when Jiren will have his punches deflected back at him, not to mention besides Twitter statements and RPG guides, you didn't prove through feats why Hades doesn't simply blitz and oneshot with a finger flick, going to be honest here. Actually, considering my opponent brought up RPG DBZ games' databooks, I'll bring in the Gigantomachia, where the gods by existing can destroy the 5 and sixth senses, with an energy equivalent to "the clash between galaxies", I'd like some resistance feats against Hades' mere presence.

A huge anti-feat for Hades, in my opinion, is this... why did he need to "align all the planets in the solar system" to drag Earth to the underworld? He is well known for hating humanity and considering himself superior as a god, but instead of just... destroying the planet, he decides, for the sake of the plot, to summon an Ultimate Eclipse over the solar system, in order to bring devastation and hell to Earth.

How is it an anti feat when Hades simply wanted to enslave all of Earth, turning it into a second Underworld, all from another dimension at the distance of literal infinity, as I've proven? Actually, any reason as of why Hades doesn't make Jiren his slave through Greatest Eclipse?

Hades was able to possess Andromeda Shun and cause damage to his fellow saints. I don't think he'll be able to do the same to Jiren - via scaling from Vegeta resisting and ultimately overpowering Babidi's mind control. Jiren also has a very strong will himself as shown during the entirety of the Tournament of Power.

Vegeta only overpowered Babidi's mind control through his pride, not to mention Babidi used the evil inside of Vegeta to do so:

And that has nothing to do with soul possession on a conceptual level, and layered up to billions of soul of potency at the worst.

To sum up, Hades seems to be a 4D character in the Saint Seiya universe, which would place him in my opinion between Buu Saga and the Tournament of Power, depending on how you scale Buu himself.

I appreciate jokes, but in the proper time. Your opinion also does not matter in a formal debate, present evidence, feats, statements, which aren't contradicted by the source material and aren't Twitts from a screen-writer whose claims, consistently go against the fundamental mechanics of canon and official Dragon Ball.

If he was in Dragon Ball, Hades would probably be the ruler of the Afterlife, placing him above the Grand Kais and the like, but below Beerus and Kaioshin in terms of godly hierarchy.

You still presented no evidence as of why Hades doesn't blitz and oneshot, besides Twitter statements which I debunked.

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3) Because Jiren is able to scale to a God of Destruction, who was destroying the entire Universe 7 macrocosm

That's cool, universal feats are weak to Gold Saints, as I've already proven.

Jiren is capable of shaking the world of void by just walking.

Sadly unquantifiable, as we have no set size for the World of Void, and how do you quantify shaking a void lol?

He was able to resist Hit's time-skip attacks and ultimately overpower them. As explained by Vados, when Hit attacks via time-skip, he actually goes to another dimension, during which the opponent cannot perceive anything.

That speaks more as an anti feat for the hax ability, as hax can't be "overpowered", but resisted, thus it's most convenient to assume, that's an in-built limitation of Hit's time manipulation.

Jiren was also mostly unfazed by Toppo warping the world of void with a Hakai, severely damaging Frieza in the process. Jiren's only reaction is that "you made up your mind, finally, Toppo".

Don't see how that quantifies anything?

In terms of combat speed, Jiren was calced at 245 septillion FTL,

Considering you linked me a "vs battle wiki blog"(from a notorious DB wanker on top), let me do the same by linking this, always from "vs battle wiki", with Shura's speed feat being far beyond septillions of times ftl, moreso in the sexdecillions x ftl. Doesn't bode well, because you admitted a speed cap for Jiren through such speed, obtained through multipliers stacking on top, one of the most dishonest ways to calculate the speed of any character, across any media.

placing him above even Capricorn Shura's feat of surpassing the speed of the initial expansion of the universe.

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I bet this would be Hades' reaction to such lowly levels of speed. Oh, let present Capricorn Shura's speed feat in the raws:

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"Even if the speed of expansion of the primitive universe is exceeded and the law of causality of light is destroyed, accelerate my holy sword!".

Shura literally breaking causality to perform such a speed feat, and causality is logically tied with time, with such a speed, it would basically amount to land the swing before he has even swinged.

With such, Hades would possibly be capable of killing Jiren before he even swings his sword...by swinging his sword, thus Jiren dies before the fight even starts.

Jiren doesn't feel so good, I am afraid.

Conclusions!

•With a lackluster response, my opponent presented no counter for Hades' abilities, actually, extra abilities Jiren has no answer to have been brought up, such as Greatest Eclipse, the passive sense removal, or the Divine Reflection. How does Jiren counter any of this? He doesn't, Hades kills him with his presence;

•My opponent presented Twitter statements from an unreliable source, which I debunked, and all of his post was mostly based on such statements, even from an RPG DBZ game...contradicted by canon, thus the foundation of his post, based on that, makes it collapse on its own. As a consequence, Hades remains far stronger and far faster than Jiren, with a level of existence the Grey can't even comprehend;

•My opponent dishonestly calls Greatest Eclipse an anti-feat, when it isn't, it's merely Hades' whole objective of conquering the Earth and obscuring the sun(cough Apollo cough), turning it into a second Underworld for him to rule over.

Regarding the CSaP links, I will simply show this:

``

3) Q: Why don’t you guys do CRTs? This page I found is totally wrong!

A: Here at Character Stats and Profiles we don’t entertain the idea of us having this supreme interpretation of any fiction; thus we allow anyone to make any page they’d like with whatever interpretation as long as it complies with our formatting standards.

``

I don't think there's much to say, lol, the choice of statistics and such is completely unreliable and based on headcanonical placements.

All in all, Hades remains far too fast, strong, durable, resistant and haxed for a stat brick such as Jiren, resulting in his inevitable, brutal and miserable death.

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1 Comments

CaV entry: The personification of the Afterlife, Hades.

The personification of the Afterlife, lord Hades.

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For those that know of Saint Seiya, they'll be aware of the fact that it's a pretty powerful verse. Not for nothing it has rivaled the likes of Dragon Ball for decades (even surpassing it I daresay), with its multitude of esoteric abilities, and its surely impressive power and cosmology.

But today, I'll present one of the most notorious Saint Seiya high tiers, someone who's fairly used in battles, but that's also an unknown, in many factors, and at times severely underestimated.

Yes, I am speaking of the one and only, Hades.

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God of the Underworld, guardian of the life after death, ruler over the concept of death itself even...but most importantly, in this CaV, Jiren's superior, by infinity, and beyond.

I'd stay days here to speak about Hades and his character, but heh, this isn't exactly the objective of this debate, I would say.

So without further ado..

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Ability/functionExplanation
Cosmo:

The latent power of every Saint.

It exists in everything, the body, life, the soul, the whole universe. Manipulating Cosmo, is the capability of destroying the atoms themselves. Everything is made out of atoms, the planets, the stars, the whole universe, born from the Big Bang. The most proficient use Cosmo, is through triggering the "mini-universe" inside of any Saint, and making it explode, just like the Big Bang.

Senses:The extra-sensorial capabilities of Saints or Gods, which come along with extra advantages/abilities. The 7th sense, is usually "perfection", the mastery of Cosmo itself, which is why Gold Saints are known for their strenght. But the 7th sense, in reality, isn't the limit...
Cloth:The protection, granted from Athena, Goddess of War, to her devoted Saints. Through it, their statistics are massively upgraded, and so is their durability. They can survive otherwise lethal attacks thanks to it, but not only...certain Cloths, grant specific advantages and resistances. There are 88 Cloths in total, with only 12 of them being Gold Cloths, and the remaining 76 belonging to the Bronze and Silver class. The Kamui Cloths, are the ones that put a Saint on the level of the Gods, but they're moreso, a legend, and barely obtainable even in-verse.
Godly Ichor:The blood of the gods themselves. It grants several resistances and even advantages, and it's something that no mortal generally possesses...except a few.
Miracles:By burning their Cosmo to the limits and beyond, the Saints can turn impossibilities into possibilities. Something that lets mortals to defy the gods themselves.
Dunamis:The Divine Cosmo of the Gods, naturally superior to the Cosmo of the mortals.

Unique abilities:

Every Saint possesses an ability unique to themselves, be it regarding physical strenght, esoteric powers, speed, etc.

Cosmo: The power of the "big bang", the Seventh Sense.

Cosmo, the most important, fundamental element in the Saint Seiya world. Everything that exists in the universe, was originally created by the big bang. All the stars, nebulaes, galaxies, are composed of atoms, something any Cosmo user, learn to destroy while just Saints in training. And by that, I mean, anyone. They all target the very atomic structure of an object to destroy it, negating its durability altogether. Some advanced uses of Cosmo, even lets you achieve destruction on a quantum level, on both physical and spiritual plane, with the mildest of Cosmo users being capable of destroying on a level beyond even quarks. The Cloths themselves, are equipped with mini-black holes, that warp space itself, yet, these Cloths' durability is multiple times bypassed. The weakest Cloth, has multiple times over, the equivalent of 20 nukes, being detonated all at once on the surface of an asteroid with 10 kilometers of lenght, with the potency of the explosion compressing the whole body. Thus it's a no brainer that this level of atomic destruction, goes well beyond the normal, and is actually layered in nature, due to the multiple showings of resistances to such being bypassed.

Proficient Cosmo users, are capable of producing extreme levels of heat, reaching millions of degrees, from there, the "burn my Cosmo", is actually literal in the very sense.

Or even, transcend the very laws of physics:

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The capacity to destroy souls, comes as a feeble, any Cosmo user can pretty much affect someone on a spiritual plane as well, someone like Cancer Deathmask, a low tier Gold Saint, can effectively destroy near 20 billion souls in one single shot. And of course, how can we forget the typical, "an ability never works twice on a saint", which well, tells you everything. After understanding how such an ability, that previously affected them, works, they'll be immune to it, becoming resistant.

But besides that, we have one of the most unique power systems you might find around, always through the applications of Cosmo, and...

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The Senses. Besides the five senses, known to everyone, it exists a sixth sense, the one of precognition and intuition, what lets you perceive everything around yourself, your very mind.

But besides that, the source of Cosmo itself, is...the 7th sense, Cosmo itself, what lets a Saint achieve Miracles, by turning impossibilities in possibilities, it being present in anyone's soul, just deep down, locked.

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In short, the highest possible level of Cosmo, a mortal can achieve. To give you an example, Virgo Shaka deprived Ikki Phoenix, of his 6 senses:

Yet, due to his 7th sense, Cosmo, he was still able to fight and move, proving how this goes beyond the mere mind and body's functions, but its fundamental functions are on a deep, spiritual level. And keep in mind, anyone with 6th sense, can use Cosmo already.

The infinite human potential, is what lets them achieve Miracles. To against fate, the set destiny, and manifesting an impossible reality, being the "hero" of the world.

And that's impressive, when the gods quite literally oppose humans by manipulating fate(cough Karma a concept) itself, utterly making it an impossible struggle to go against them, without failing miserably.

And this...this is almost poetic. Once again, always because of Miracles, the infinite human potential, their infinite possibilities.

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Being brought into reality, through their Cosmo, even killing the gods themselves, and bypassing their defenses.

The Arayashiki: awakening of the Eighth Sense:

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Virgo Shaka, Gold Saint of the Virgo constellation.

We've already presented an introduction of the 8th sense, but I believe it should be made clear, what it entails.

The life beyond death, defying the imposed laws imposed by Hades, lord of the Underworld, and not dying while in his domain. It's an estabilished law of death, and being in the Underworld, means losing your own personality and identity:

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The Alaya Consciousness, which lets the Saints survive in the Underworld, by having authority over their own soul, controlling it to the fullest. The 8th sense, is nothing more than being one with the Alaya "Network", the main component of the world, which goes beyond time and space. The ability to move between dimensions, even higher ones.

Transcending death itself, the 8th sense is even superior to the 7th sense, it's something that goes beyond just Cosmo...

The Alaya Consciousness (from Sanskrit àlaya-vijnana) is also called "the alaya receptacle of perceptions" or "the repository of karma." It is the eighth of the nine consciousnesses. It is located at a deeper level than the ordinary consciousness. It is so called because all the karma created during the present, past, and future lives are stored there. This "deep-to-laya" is considered to be that which passes through the cycle of birth and death, and forms the framework of an individual existence. All the acts and experiences of life that pass through the first seven levels of consciousness are accumulated as karma in this âlaya-bottom, which in turn influences the functioning of the other consciousnesses, arguing that all phenomena originate from the âlaya-consciousness and that it is therefore the one and only reality.

The nine consciousnesses are nine kinds of discernment. The

The term "consciousness" is a translation of the Sanskrit word vijnana, which means "discernment". > These are

-1- visual awareness (chakshur-vijnana)

-2- auditory awareness (shrota-vijnana)

-3- Olfactory awareness (ghrana-vijnana)

-4- Taste awareness (jhiva-vijnana)

-5- tactile awareness (kaya-vijnana)

-6- mental awareness (mano-vijnana)

-7- the mano consciousness (mano-vijnana) [identical name for the 6th and the 7th].

The first five consciousnesses correspond to the five senses. The sixth integrates the perceptions of the five senses into coherent images and evaluates the external world.

It means being one with the network that encompasses all the past, present, and future, your consciousness/mind, is one with it, your very soul gains independence. In conclusion, the 8th sense, is a layer of the conscience that lets you transcend the dimensions of space, move through different, complex dimensions, understand the flow of Karma, the Alayashiki network, and go beyond just "life and death".

To exist in multiple dimensions at the same time, in a world unknown..

An ascension of the soul, in a higher dimension.

The Amalashiki: The "nothingness" of the Ninth Sense.

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The Divine Will, the peak of the nine senses of the consciousness, in Saint Seiya. The 8th sense, nothing to such a level of power, it being the pure void and nothingness, that covers everything.

As we presented already, the power that creates, and extends the universe ad infinitum, is Dunamis. Everything in creation, every single component, comes from it, the primordial chaos.

Because the Divine Will, is Chaos. Everything is turned into absolute nothingness, even something that threaten the whole structure of the Underworld, and is capable of punching through it, separating the border between life and death.

Aiolos, claims himself capable of conquering the Underworld through this power. But for more...

Zeus/Aiolia, someone with the Ninth sense, erased the Underworld, one of the worlds, with a single, Lightning Void. Something beyond the scope of space and time, completely destroyed, fallen into ebony darkness. The endless souls in it, completely condemned, and destined to disappear due to this immense power.

But there's more:

Unlike the first six consciousnesses, which concern the outer world, the seventh, or "mano consciousness", discerns the inner spiritual world. Self-awareness and attachment to the self would have their origin in it, as would the ability to distil good and evil. The eighth, or "âlaya consciousness," is considered the basis of all life functions. The ninth consciousness, the "amala consciousness," located at a deeper level, is free of all karmic impurities that may be present in the álaya consciousness. This ninth consciousness is defined as the basis of all spiritual functions and corresponds to the true entity of life, the state of "Buddha" ("awakened" in Sanskrit).

The Ninth Consciousness, the "amala consciousness", leaves you free of karmic impurities, and of its eternal cycle.

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The clashing thoughts destroying the previous eight senses, until nothing remains, bringing forth true chaos and a void, erasing the alaya consciousness, and bringing forth "amalashiki", or so we can call it.

Such an immense burden on the mind, that can destroy even the eighth consciousness, should already tell enough of the ridiculous potency of the ninth consciousness. And it basically makes any attempt of attacking the mind of these individuals, useless, as there's basically nothing to control, said "nothingness", going beyond the infinite network that is alaya, someone that with the eighth sense can understand and become one with.

In short: Amala Consciousness/Ninth Sense=nothingness, chaos>>Alaya Consciousness/Eighth Sense==>one with the infinite flow of Karma, and its network, across past, present and future>>life, death, time and space.

...

After presenting the basics, I'd like to estabilish the cosmology of Saint Seiya...in a more particular style this time :). But first of all, I'd like to estabilish that Episode G, is in fact, canon:

Q) "Saint Seiya episode G comes as a real surprise. Why start now with episode G?"

Kurumada: "My answer to this will be the same as George Lucas' answer to the production of his Star Wars Episode 1. The right environment for what I imagine to materialize just happened. In the context of a film, this refers to digital imagery or new technologies, for a manga it refers to the circumstances of the environment."

Source.

...

AL: "Besides the series Ring ni Kakero 2, which you write and draw yourself, in 2002 you brought us the beginning of Saint Seiya Episode G, drawn by Megumu Okada, and also the new saga of Fuma no Kojira, drawn by your direct disciple Satoshi Yuri. Can you tell us more about these projects?"

MK: "I develop a supervision over them, however the artists are totally free to develop the plot. Megumu Okada has made a trully impressive work, but he prints on it his own style and story. Satoshi Yuri is very responsible and works very seriously. He is my student, we work on the same studio, therefore I can take more of my time with his work than with Episode G."

Saint Seiya: The Lost Canvas? An alternative timeline. Does this man in a wheelchair look familiar?

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It sure does to me. The factor of "canonicity", will surely be brought up, but there's one thing...nothing proves these mangas aren't canon, because they belong to the manga-verse of the Saint Seiya franchise.

They'd be, alternative timelines, worlds, dimensions...which I am going to prove, in the next section.

The world: Infinity that stretches to infinity...

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This world...a parallel world!

The basis of the Saint Seiya multiverse(s), its foundations, based on the multiple existing universes, in an endless chain.

You don't get it? Don't worry, I am here to explain!

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Universes, multiverses, existing next to each other. The people of these parallel worlds coming into contact with each other, will simply go through the process of memory sharing, acquiring every single memory of their parallel version, even if dead.

With this said...how many universes though? To this, we have an answer in Saint Seiya: Episode G Requiem, with the universe being described as infinite multi dimensional, with infinite presents, infinite dimensions, existing in a single space-time continuum. Which would make a singular universe, by default, its own multiverse in all rights.

But...multiverses, actually exist, due to this, a single universe, would already be a multiverse, and how many "multiverses"?

Oh well, infinite, as the futures (own universes) branch off forever.

Any point in time, would be its own independent universe(multiverse), as a day in the future, could take years in the past time axis.

And as infinite presents are proven to exist, each of them would be its own world, with infinite dimensions/parallel worlds.

For supportive evidence, we have Saint Seiya: Dark Wing, mentioning infinite worlds/universes, while also mentioning the warriors from the different worlds(cough cough Seiya cough), something that'd actually prove the existence of infinite "multiverses".

To summarize, a singular universe=infinite multi dimensional, with infinite dimensions/worlds, and each world would then be independent and keep branching forever through parallel worlds.

Of these universes (multiverses), exists an infinite amount, from this, an infinite amount of infinite multiverses. How is this important? Because as I've proven, 8th sense users can have access to a higher dimensional plane, beyond space and time, thus transcending the very multiverse, yet they're pathetically inferior to gods, and if the "Divine Will" section isn't enough, I'll present the God Cloths being mauled by Hades, while the god not being in his true form, inhabitating Shun's body...in Lost World, a parallel world. And at that point, the Saints clearly achieved the 8th sense/Alaya Consciousness:

As, well, to reach the Underworld, they needed it to begin with.

The Ninth Sense is a state completely beyond the Eighth Sense, and while I guess you may argue Hades doesn't possess it, that would be kind of weird, when Zeus-Aiolia/Shura, clearly refers to the gods, in general, when they mention Dunamis and the Ninth Sense:

While also re-mentioning, how gods aren't bound by karma whatsoever, that being something they manipulate, fate itself, is in their hands.

Right to left.

Karma, in whatever the universe, world, dimension, being pre-determinated by the gods, as shown with the Great God Zeus.

By default, gods would be unbound by such a thing, unless it's practiced in their own system, as shown with Cronus' destiny being affected by Uranus himself:

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From this we get, the "system of fate of the gods", and the "system of fate of the mortals".

Here, proven how the constellations guide a Saint's fate. This, proven once again, in Santia Sho, even with the Santias.

More examples of imposed destiny, here:

Right to left.

So it's clear, the fate the gods impose upon the cosmology, is not something that binds them, they're at best, bound by their own fate, and their own logic. But how does this work for Hades...?

The god of the Underworld:

Hades himself.

He who embodies, the concept of Afterlife itself, he brought it forth from nothing, sustaining the very Underworld that exists for the souls of mortals, after their death. Without him, there's no Underworld, only the "void", after death...which wouldn't even be death, but just the existence of the individual, completely ceasing to be.

Considering how gods are beyond space and time, it's clear that the Underworld, is one and only one. Let's bring some examples:

1). The Crystal Vortex, connects multiple worlds, dimensions, with each other, but Lost World Camus, has to walk through the Underworld to reach the entrance of the other world.

2). Shun sees Seiya walking in the Yomotsu Hirasaka, entrance of the Underworld, from another world entirely (the past timeline, and I've already explained why it would be its own independent universe), proving the Underworld'd connection to the multiple worlds.

3). As Hades words it, upon his death, the Underworld, as in singular, would cease to be. There are no multiple Underworld, and Hades in the canon(sigh... actually wish it wasn't) manga, Saint Seiya: Rerise of Poseidon, speaks of the territory he's built, through the Underworld:

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Which means, Hades himself would have an immense range through his manipulation of the Afterlife itself, of life and death.

Right to left.

The Underworld, is referred to as one of the worlds, in this context, the world of the dead put in comparison with the world of the living. The dead in general, would have disappeared without its existence, no matter the world or universe, as that's never specified.

This is consistent, with Zeus destroying the Underworld, letting everything fall into the void.

For further proof, gods are simply not bound by the changes of time, history and whatnot:

Thus, the Underworld would be:

•An endless structure, that extends beyond space and time, consistent with Blood Pond Hell being located beyond space-time (somewhere Hades can send someone to, with a gesture, btw);

•Something that connects to all the worlds of the Saint Seiya universe;

•The very meta-physical concept of an Afterlife, without it, the souls of the dead, would simply fall into the void.

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Hades would pretty much, manipulate the life of someone, across the whole world, with a thought, as even shown with Thanatos. And upon Hades' awakening in the human world, anything in his presence died, and keep in mind how even just Thanatos is the one who presides over the concept of death, Hypnos on the one of sleep(furtherly cementing the fact that gods are conceptual embodiements).

With this said, Hades' range for his death manipulation, would be ridiculous, and would scale in potency far above even fate manipulation through the concept of Karma, and such, considering his essence as a higher dimensional being, not bound by any karmic impurity whatsoever.

Oh, Hades would still live even when destroyed, considering he could possess Lost World Shun, in another dimension/universe:

So just keep in mind that nothing at all, stops Hades from possessing Jirem, and even ripping his whole personality/consciousness/soul apart, as shown with Zeus-Aiolia, with what he says:

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And for his soul manipulation potency? Oh well, how many souls in infinite worlds? Seems obviously, uh, infinite.

Just to add the cherry on the cake, Hades could simply BFR Jiren out of the Wheel of Samsara (this working on 8th sense users even), sending his soul into a timeless void outside of the cycle of death and rebirth, while transferring his own very "hatred", into him, this working as a conceptual/curse/BFR/void manipulation, which negates layers of resistances for obvious reasons.

Keep in mind, Hades' sword can cut through God Cloths and splinter them, and can even cut through Urns which can supposedly resist even Zeus' lightning bolts. These, are impressive because:

•The sword would bypass the ridiculous durability of the God Cloths, but also their immunity to attacks that target sub atomic particles such as quarks and beyond, with even Cloths of mook Saints being capable of resisting it through spatial warping miniature black holes installed in them.

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"The first problem that arose during the project was to select which material would be used to create the Cloths. Even with the understanding that the Cloths were a kind of armor designed to protect the bodies of the Saints, there lacked a material capable of withstanding the attacks of these warriors, whose immense destructive power resided in the destruction of the atoms. But as all matter is made of atoms themselves, such a material could not exist. With the exception of one thing: They had to study a real Cloth.

Dr. Asamori then began working on the Research Center to study the Sagittarius Gold Cloth which Mitsumasa Kido had brought back from Greece. In other words, he attempted to create an imitation of the Gold Cloth. He pushes his research studies to the molecular level, then to the atomic level, until he reached the study of the elementary particles and even that of quarks themselves, but he could not understand why the Cloths had this mysterious capability to endure this incredible power of atomic destruction (Which would then suggest the existence of something on a level deeper than that of quarks). After realizing that he could never replicate a true Gold Cloth, Dr. Asamori decided to redirect his research towards a different approach. And that would be to create Mechanical Cloths which focused the power of all modern scientific knowledge.

The attacks of the Saints were capable of destroying their target on an atomic level, therefore there was nothing to worry about in the first place even if they never reached the opponent. Dr. Asamori then started with the theoretical concept that the Cloths were capable of distorting space and immediately began his experiments. And in that age, the only known thing capable of distorting space itself was the force exerted by the gravitational wave of a Black Hole. But to create an artificial Black Hole and incorporate it into the Cloths' framework was far too much work for just one man. And so Dr. Asamori left it to the Graad Foundation to establish collaborations with NASA, the Pentagon and the Jet Propulsion Laboratory.

Theoretical knowledge regarding the creation of an Artificial Black Hole was something that was known since Einstein's time. It would be necessary to place 20 atomic bombs on an asteroid 10 kilometers in length and have them all detonate simultaneously so that the potency of their explosion would compress the asteroid's whole body. When compressed to a size smaller than that of an atom, it would be transformed into a micro-Black Hole. Dr. Asamori then thought it would be best to confine it within a Magnetic Field. And after countless failed attempts he was finally able to create and contain three Black Holes. Equipped with these micro-Black Holes, the Steel Cloths acquired a perfect defensive capability and a nearly unlimited energy source"

•Zeus' lightning bolts, are conceptual in nature, as even imposing the concept of death upon them, does nothing, as they're inhexaustible and perpetual.

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So Hades' sword, is pretty much striking on a conceptual, physical, spiritual(cough, near 20 billion souls at the worst potency, cough), sub atomic, spatial(on layers) level, all in one single strike, this, without taking in account the curse and the bfr.

So it's likely, that Jiren will just get cleaved in half in a single swing of Hades' Weapon, conceptually destroyed or erased out of the karmic cycle...

This, without including the power of Hades...

The strenght of a divinity against a puny mortal..

Jiren is outclassed.

Just to begin and give a taste, Hades with a thought can move all the planets of the solar system, with his telekinesis, while in Elysium, thus from dimensions away, potentially a literal infinite distance, and is capable of using this telekinesis in combat, to blast away God Cloths.

The same Hades, passively sustains the Hyperdimension, the Underworld, the infinite Elysium, everything he has created, this even confirmed again in Saint Seiya: Episode G Assassin, through Hades being the only hope for the stability of the Underworld, the whole Afterlife.

As for scaling? Easy enough, infinitely weaker Gold Saints, with their Cosmo, can create/destroy countless universes, and by infinitely weaker, I do mean it, considering the same God Cloths Hades slaughtered in the Lost World while not even using his own body, but Shun's, and the ones he obviously curbstomped in Elysium:

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Are something the Saints can obtain only by raising their Cosmo infinitely higher, Cosmo itself correlating to physical/power characteristics:

Kurumada: Looking back, I did really well with Saint Seiya (laughs). The word Cosmos can be applied to a whole lot of things. For example, when it comes to feeling the murderous intention of an enemy or to speak of the elevation of power, in all cases it simply comes down to burning his Cosmos. Regarding the Cloths, it's because I had seen that the gods of Greek mythology were dressed in simple cloths. From that, I came up with the term "sacred tissues" ( - sinaru koromo ), which I then compressed into "Cloths"

Source.

And speed:

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So whatever multiplier brought forth for Jiren would be useless, and just to put the cherry on the cake:

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"Athena Exclamation, whose power is equal to that of the Big Bang, if they encounter with each other, the destructive force will not merely grow many times, not even squared or tripled, it'll will increase to infinity."

"If that happens, not only this Virgo House, but the 12 houses...no, the whole Sanctuary could be extinguished."

Keep in mind, these two Athena Exclamations are something that are generated by 6 Gold Saints, yet 5 God Cloths with their full power upon Hades...

Right to left

Get treated like fodder, and he is just scratched later.

This is also consistent with the Wall of Lamentation, a creation of Hades, requiring sunlight specifically to be destroyed, or more, the "infinite" power of the sun, the combined power of 12 Gold Saints, it being the only way to just create an hole in it.

Thus, Hades would comfortably scald above the energy generated by the clash of two Athena Exclamations, above the infinite Cosmo of the God Cloths, and so on.

And even at the worst, Hades far outscales Shura through a Miracle exceeding the speed of the universe's initial expansion..

That's...pretty fast!

"When the universe was just 10-34 of a second or so old — that is, a hundredth of a billionth of a trillionth of a trillionth of a second in age — it experienced an incredible burst of expansion known as inflation, in which space itself expanded faster than the speed of light according to modern science."

-source.

Gods do scale to Miracles, obviously...

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Making it all, pretty consistent. There's more to bring, such as together with the speed feats, Hades scaling infinitely above someone like Aries Mu destroying dimensions with countless stars inside that can be mistaken as universes, as for lifting strenght, far above Aldebaran, who can lift Themis' scale, something with the weight of the celestial sphere and its countless stars, and so much more that I don't think is necessary to bring.

But I'll do so, by presenting how any wearer of the boots of Hermes, even fodders, being capable of crossing the universe up to its edges in mere seconds, something that seems more quantifiable of a speed feat than anything in DBS.

But even a Seiya who barely tapped in the 7th sense, with a broken leg, could dodge the Lightning Plasma, at the very least, millions of light-speed blows all at once. Hades would also be far above the Saints that crossed the Hyperdimension, and so on.

In the end, I don't see why Jiren won't just get blitzed and effortlessly ripped apart with a single, casual half-assed sword slash from Hades' part...

To conclude!

Hades, would certainly be the victor in such a matchup, for a few but simple reasons:

•He is far too fast for Jiren, the latter is just an unmoving statue for reasons above presented;

•He is far too powerful for Jiren, I'd like to know why Hades can't simply slap his head off with the back of his hand, if possible;

•He is far too versatile for Jiren, and can simply manipulate his fate/Karma, BFR him out of the Wheel of Samsara, erase his soul, destroy him conceptually, on a sub atomic level, kill him with a thought by imposing the concept of death, sending him into Blood Pond Hell (or even Cocytus) with a gesture, etc.;

•He is far too immortal, like, seriously. Even Eris can exist as long as chaos and discord aren't erased, much less Hades, he'd merely take control over Jiren or another host across the multiverse, then find him, as gods can travel through history.

At the end of the story, of the mythology, Hades will take the Grey's head, and use it as a decoration for his throne...

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Best of luck to my opponent.

Start the Conversation

"Chronos" and "Kronos" are the same.

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For years, there has been the misconception of Saint Seiya "Chronos", from Next Dimension, to be a different entity altogether from Episode G! Kronos.

Sadly, that's a lie. Even I, wasn't aware of the fact, and this isn't exactly something new, a few already had their own doubts about Kronos and Chronos being different beings.

But shall we check why, it's not the case?

Argument #1: "Chronos is the Primordial, Kronos is the Titan!"

Completely based on nothing.

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"Cronos" in this text, is obviously the Titan, being Zeus' father. The Primordial entity in Greek mythos, Chronos, was born from Chaos, and certainly wasn't Ouranus' son, unlike Cronus.

Pontos, is one of the four great gods, and son of Gaia, brother of Ouranus. Gaia herself, is who gave birth to everyone and everything. Thus, Cronos is son of Gaia and Ouranus.

Yet...

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It is clear, this is Zeus' father. And no, Zeus doesn't have "multiple fathers", I am afraid, it's him, Cronos, merely without a physical body, as, well...Aiolia killed him, during the events of Episode G.

Right to left

He basically begs Hades to save him while he precipitates into Tartarus:

Cronus: "Hades!!!"

Cronus: " You're watching everything, I know!!!"

Hades: " What do you want, cronus?"

Cronus: "One thing, just one thing!!!"

Cronus: " Return the golden lion to the surface!!!"

Hades: " And what would I get in return?"

Cronus: "Everything!!!"

Cronus: " Stay with my dunamis !!! With all that is in me!!!"

Cronus: " I offer myself to you!!!"

Cronus: " So, please, save this hero in the form of a human !!!"

So it's clear, Cronos lost. And with this, he disappeared into Tartarus.

With this, Next Dimension! Cronos, is never in any way, shape or form, stated to be a Primordial, that is by any means, a fanfiction. Both father of Zeus, and to add the cherry on the cake:

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Cronos is literally Hades' father as well. And Rhea in Episode G, is Kronos' wife. But what matters is, Hades and Zeus, share the same father in the form of the one and only Titan, no Primordial or any mumbo jumbo.

Argument #2: "Chronos is an hourglass, Kronos is not!"

Lol no.

It's the same tool Kronos possesses, nothing more. Kronos isn't the hourglass, it merely contains his time, that's it.

What's more...

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Shura mentions how he came there through the power of the god of time, Chronos, and Hyoga mentions an hourglass. Shura can only refer of one God of Time, the one he faced in Episode G together with the other Gold Saints, and while Hyoga never met Episode G! Cronos, and Shura never met Next Dimension! Cronos, it's obviously intent for them to be the same guy, and the God of Time, can clearly be just one. Once again, the hourglass is one, and it contains Cronos' time.

Argument #3: "But Chronos the Primordial must exist, Kronos is just the Titan!"

Kurumada never intended for a Primordial Chronos to exist.

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You see any other Cronos? I don't tbh, and while my eyesight kind of sucks, it seems clear to me. Someone as important as the "Primordial Chronos", would surely be mentioned, considering Pontos, Gaia, Cronos, who all are mentioned/appeared in the series, are.

Yet no "Primordial Chronos". It's clear, Cronos is only one, the Titan, just without a physical state during Next Dimension, which is years after G, with Cronos being "killed" by Aiolia and sent back into Tartarus (although it's up to interpretation if he "died" or not, the "...", because Saint Seiya gods in 99% of the cases, never really die. But the Cronos' Labyrinth, a straight up universe, was collapsing with his defeat, and the same happened with the other Titans' "deaths").

Conclusions!

Episode G! Cronos, and Next Dimension! Cronos, are the same individual. In both cases, they're the father of Zeus, they're the god of time, they have an hourglass, and no mention of a Primordial Chronos is ever shown in all of Kurumada's or Okada's, or any other authors' work, in the Saint Seiya franchise.

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Respect the only goat, Cronos.

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He Who Stands Closest To God: Shaka of Virgo.

What is Karma?

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"Flowers are born, and they wither...

Stars shine, and one day they extinguish.

This Earth, the sun, the galaxies, even the great universe, some day will be destroyed...

Compared to that, the life of man is nothing but a blink of an eye, a scarce moment.

In that scarce moment, people are born, they laugh, they cry, they fight, they're hurt, they feel joy, sorrow, hate someone, love someone.

All is but a moment and afterwards, they're embraced by that eternal dream called death."-Virgo Shaka, Saint Seiya, the Hades arc.

Shaka of Virgo, one of the twelve Gold Saints that serve and protect the Goddess of War and Wisdom, Athena. Throughout the years, he has been a fairly known character, specifically because of his immense arsenal of potent abilities and even his raw power, which is no joke, considering his performance against fellow Gold Saints in the series(ie, Shura, Camus and Saga).

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Throughout his life, trained to be calm and pacific, to know the essence of everything, the flow of all existence and what it entails for not only humanity and the planet, but the universe itself.

Simply putting it, Karma is the Truth of the universe. All things flows into each other, neither absolute good, nor absolute evil actually do exist.

Transience. The cause and effect, the fate that is impermanence. Nothing lives forever, everything ends, everything dies...but in that fleeting moment, everything lives.

And this is not limited to just one universe, but to multiple, across all the dimensions and universes, endlessly.

And keep in mind, that infinite presents, and thus infinite pasts/futures exist. But not only! Each past, for example, would be an independent universe, with its own time axis:

Consistent, as they're presented with Chronos, the god of time and space, as separated portals, not connected.

Heck, Athena being in the wrong time axis was an issue for the whole cosmos. Thus, it'd make sense for these different "universes and multiverses", to exist infinitely, in existence. Furthermore:

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Dohko furtherly presents consistence, estabilishing the existence of separated worlds, with their own individuality. I believe this should be enough to tell you what Karma exactly is, and its immense scope across the Saint Seiya cosmology, so without wasting time:

....

Glossary!

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Ability/functionExplanation
Cosmo:

The latent power of every Saint.

It exists in everything, the body, life, the soul, the whole universe. Manipulating Cosmo, is the capability of destroying the atoms themselves. Everything is made out of atoms, the planets, the stars, the whole universe, born from the Big Bang. The most proficient use Cosmo, is through triggering the "mini-universe" inside of any Saint, and making it explode, just like the Big Bang.

Senses:The extra-sensorial capabilities of Saints or Gods, which come along with extra advantages/abilities. The 7th sense, is usually "perfection", the mastery of Cosmo itself, which is why Gold Saints are known for their strenght. But the 7th sense, in reality, isn't the limit...
Cloth:The protection, granted from Athena, Goddess of War, to her devoted Saints. Through it, their statistics are massively upgraded, and so is their durability. They can survive otherwise lethal attacks thanks to it, but not only...certain Cloths, grant specific advantages and resistances. There are 88 Cloths in total, with only 12 of them being Gold Cloths, and the remaining 76 belonging to the Bronze and Silver class. The Kamui Cloths, are the ones that put a Saint on the level of the Gods, but they're moreso, a legend, and barely obtainable even in-verse.
Godly Ichor:The blood of the gods themselves. It grants several resistances and even advantages, and it's something that no mortal generally possesses...except a few.
Miracles:By burning their Cosmo to the limits and beyond, the Saints can turn impossibilities into possibilities. Something that lets mortals to defy the gods themselves.
Dunamis:The Cosmo of the Gods, naturally superior to the Cosmo of the mortals.

Unique abilities:

Every Saint possesses an ability unique to themselves, be it regarding physical strenght, esoteric powers, speed, etc.

Cosmo: The power of the "big bang", the Seventh Sense.

Cosmo(an invisible energy), the most important, fundamental element in the Saint Seiya world. Everything that exists in the universe, was originally created by the big bang. All the stars, nebulaes, galaxies, are composed of atoms, something any Cosmo user, learn to destroy while just Saints in training. And by that, I mean, anyone. They all target the very atomic structure of an object to destroy it, negating its durability altogether. Some advanced uses of Cosmo, even lets you achieve destruction on a quantum level, on both physical and spiritual plane, with the mildest of Cosmo users being capable of destroying on a level beyond even quarks. The Cloths themselves, are equipped with mini-black holes, that warp space itself, yet, these Cloths' durability is multiple times bypassed. The weakest Cloth, has multiple times over, the equivalent of 20 nukes, being detonated all at once on the surface of an asteroid with 10 kilometers of lenght, with the potency of the explosion compressing the whole body. Thus it's a no brainer that this level of atomic destruction, goes well beyond the normal, and is actually layered in nature, due to the multiple showings of resistances to such being bypassed.

Proficient Cosmo users, are capable of producing extreme levels of heat, reaching millions of degrees, from there, the "burn my Cosmo", is actually literal in the very sense.

Or even, transcend the very laws of physics:

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The capacity to destroy souls, comes as a feeble, any Cosmo user can pretty much affect someone on a spiritual plane as well, someone like Cancer Deathmask, a low tier Gold Saint, can effectively destroy near 20 billion souls in one single shot. And of course, how can we forget the typical, "an ability never works twice on a saint", which well, tells you everything. After understanding how such an ability, that previously affected them, works, they'll be immune to it, becoming resistant.

But besides that, we have one of the most unique power systems you might find around, always through the applications of Cosmo, and...

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The Senses. Besides the five senses, known to everyone, it exists a sixth sense, the one of precognition and intuition, what lets you perceive everything around yourself, your very mind.

But besides that, the source of Cosmo itself, is...the 7th sense, Cosmo itself, what lets a Saint achieve Miracles, by turning impossibilities in possibilities, it being present in anyone's soul, just deep down, locked.

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In short, the highest possible level of Cosmo, a mortal can achieve. To give you an example, Virgo Shaka deprived Ikki Phoenix, of his 6 senses:

Yet, due to his 7th sense, Cosmo, he was still able to fight and move, proving how this goes beyond the mere mind and body's functions, but its fundamental functions are on a deep, spiritual level. And keep in mind, anyone with 6th sense, can use Cosmo already.

The infinite human potential, is what lets them achieve Miracles. To against fate, the set destiny, and manifesting an impossible reality, being the "hero" of the world.

And that's impressive, when the gods quite literally oppose humans by manipulating fate(cough Karma a concept) itself, utterly making it an impossible struggle to go against them, without failing miserably.

And this...this is almost poetic. Once again, always because of Miracles, the infinite human potential, their infinite possibilities.

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Being brought into reality, through their Cosmo, even killing the gods themselves, and bypassing their defenses.

The Arayashiki: awakening of the Eighth Sense:

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Virgo Shaka, Gold Saint of the Virgo constellation.

We've already presented an introduction of the 8th sense, but I believe it should be made clear, what it entails.

The life beyond death, defying the imposed laws imposed by Hades, lord of the Underworld, and not dying while in his domain. It's an estabilished law of death, and being in the Underworld, means losing your own personality and identity:

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The Alaya Consciousness, which lets the Saints survive in the Underworld, by having authority over their own soul, controlling it to the fullest. And that's saying something, keep in mind, the Word of God, presented the fact that Shaka was reduced into nothingness, by the Athena Exclamation:

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The 8th sense, is nothing more than being one with the Alaya "Network", the main component of the world, which goes beyond time and space. The ability to move between dimensions, even higher ones.

Transcending death itself, the 8th sense is even superior to the 7th sense, it's something that goes beyond just Cosmo...

The Alaya Consciousness (from Sanskrit àlaya-vijnana) is also called "the alaya receptacle of perceptions" or "the repository of karma." It is the eighth of the nine consciousnesses. It is located at a deeper level than the ordinary consciousness. It is so called because all the karma created during the present, past, and future lives are stored there. This "deep-to-laya" is considered to be that which passes through the cycle of birth and death, and forms the framework of an individual existence. All the acts and experiences of life that pass through the first seven levels of consciousness are accumulated as karma in this âlaya-bottom, which in turn influences the functioning of the other consciousnesses, arguing that all phenomena originate from the âlaya-consciousness and that it is therefore the one and only reality.

The nine consciousnesses are nine kinds of discernment. The

The term "consciousness" is a translation of the Sanskrit word vijnana, which means "discernment". > These are

-1- visual awareness (chakshur-vijnana)

-2- auditory awareness (shrota-vijnana)

-3- Olfactory awareness (ghrana-vijnana)

-4- Taste awareness (jhiva-vijnana)

-5- tactile awareness (kaya-vijnana)

-6- mental awareness (mano-vijnana)

-7- the mano consciousness (mano-vijnana) [identical name for the 6th and the 7th].

The first five consciousnesses correspond to the five senses. The sixth integrates the perceptions of the five senses into coherent images and evaluates the external world.

It means being one with the network that encompasses all the past, present, and future, your consciousness/mind, is one with it, your very soul gains independence. In conclusion, the 8th sense, is a layer of the conscience that lets you transcend the dimensions of space, move through different, complex dimensions, understand the flow of Karma, the Alayashiki network, and go beyond just "life and death".

It's here even stated explicitly, as quite literally, dimensional ascension, of the soul.

With this presented, let's estabilish the tier of the Virgo Gold Saint, and why Karma is so relevant for the discussion?

The Saint closest to god!?

And he is for a reason.

As a Gold Saint, it's no wonder that he would be capable of producing ridiculous amount of power, let's take in consideration how Gemini Saga's Galaxian Explosion was tanked by even Shura, same Galaxian Explosion being capable of destroying whole galaxies.

Gemini Saga's attacks being completely ineffective against him due to his defensive shields:

Someone like Aries Mu, can completely erase Iapetos' dimension through his own Cosmo, and Titans with their Dunamis straight up create universes that infinitely expand.

This would be consistent in the anime, where Gold Saints are pretty much those with a Cosmo comparable to the Big Bang, consistent with Shaka's Tenma Kofuku rivaling it and Saga's Galaxian Explosion.

And the infamous feat of Shaka and Shijima themselves, of creating/destroying countless universes, Shaka creating them with his Agyo, which represents the "birth of the universe", Shijima destroying then with Ungyo, which represents the "end of the universe".

(Note: This does have a conceptual aspect when all things are considered, as it's meant to show the workings of Karma itself, and the cycle of death and rebirth. In short, it's an attack that is not so easy to counter conventionally).

All in all, anything less than universal+/multi universal output makes little sense for Shaka, this not including that, excluding the specific fact that he wanted to be hit by an Athena Exclamation simply to "die", reaching the Underworld, Gold Saints can survive something like this due to their Cloths:

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*Athena Exclamation, whose power is equal to that of the Big Bang, if they encounter with each other, the destructive force will not merely grow many times, not even squared or tripled, it'll will increase to infinity.*

*If that happens, not only this Virgo House, but the 12 houses...no, the whole Sanctuary could be extinguished. *-Credit to Joviolma for translations.

And yes, the side with the Surplices (anti equivalent of Gold Cloths), were hit by the force of BOTH exclamations, and survived. This says how the Cloths can withstand such ridiculous amount of punishment.

Granted, Shiryu tilted the scale of the Athena Exclamations, so they likely never reached their full potential, but that still tells a lot about the Gold Cloths' sheer durability.

As for speed? Shaka is ridiculous, due to well, blitzing Seiya himself!

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The same Seiya in a far weaker version, with barely the activation of the 7th sense, could dodge Aiolia's Lightning Plasma, and strike him down, which are millions of light speed blows per second, or, later cross the super-dimensional space, which contains billions of "lights"(galaxies, etc.), in a short time-frame. Thanatos himself attacked across light years, and Seiya reacted to it. And in this situation, I will of course bring in, Shura exceeding the speed of the initial expansion of the universe~

Quadrillions, quintillions, sextillions, septillions of times the speed of light, does it exactly matter for someone with probability manipulation? That's the level Shura operates at speed-wise, if you're faster than him, he'll just get faster, as that's how he operates:

Roland: (Could you see all my attacks?)

Roland: (But the outcome of the attack remains up to my favor!)

Roland: (My precognition allows me to anticipate his attacks...)

Roland: (and the resulting counterattack will kill him for sure.)

Shura: (He can predict where I'll strike, I can't do anything about it.)

Shura: (And I only have strength left for a single blow.)

Shura: (I have to be able to move faster.)

Shura: (Faster.)

Shura: (Even faster.)

Shura: (At unrivaled speed.)

P12-13

Shura: (I have to be able to exceed the speed at which the The universe expanded in its infancy!)

Shura: (Even if this were to break the speed of light...)

Shura: (Strike even faster, my holy sword!)

Shura: Excalibur !

-Episode G Assassin, chapter 11.

That's...pretty fast!

"When the universe was just 10-34 of a second or so old — that is, a hundredth of a billionth of a trillionth of a trillionth of a second in age — it experienced an incredible burst of expansion known as inflation, in which space itself expanded faster than the speed of light according to modern science."

-source.

In Saint Seiya, actual implications that the universe expanded instantly to its full size, rather than the one of a marble/fruit. The speed feat, in such a time-frame,would be insane.

Note, this would be something Shaka can replicate if he burns his Cosmo hot enough, and performs a Miracle, which isn't far fetched at all, the longer the battle goes on, the more it is likely.

Needless to say, the likelyhood of Shaka being blitzed, is extremely low to non existent.

But now, shall we present the abilities of the Virgo Gold Saints? If so...

The adaptability of the Virgo.

I'd like to present, one of the most impressive showings for a Gold Saint in general throughout the whole Saint Seiya franchise, at least in my opinion (surely not rivaling the likes of Shura or Aiolos, but it's still pretty notable on itself!)

A case of reactive evolution.

As presented in all of this by Dysnomia, Shaka has seen the "truth of the universe", or the multiverse. Being thrown at its absolute edges in an unnatural dimension, which he escaped through Mu's help but that he would have done on his own without Ikki being there (as he needed to save him), yet he escaped. Not only! The dimension him and his enemy were into, transcended the whole multiverse, and saw every single possible beginning, or end of a universe, as tiny glimmers, quite literally, sparkles. What does Shaka do? He takes control of the dimension, and later escapes it.

To make it brief:

•Multiversal+ BFR doesn't work on Shaka, even across higher dimensions;

•Shaka can react to quite literally being in a higher plane of existence, which belongs to his enemy, and take control of it, showing absurd reactive evolution;

•In the case a similiar ability were to be used against him, he'd adapt to it, as shown with this.

In conclusion, Shaka's reactive evolution, is a step ahead the one of most Gold Saints of his generation.

But now..

"Odin, choose one of the six realms of existence I am about to show you..."

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One of Virgo Shaka's most powerful techniques...besides the attacks of the evil spirits, Demon Capitulation, the powerful illusion and mind attacks that work on Sixth sense users, with the infamous "Buddha's Hand"(with him even reflecting the Phantom Demon Punch back at Ikki, and keep in mind that it could tear Wolf's soul to pieces, by attacking his mind all the way back in the beginnings, giving multiple layers to Shaka's mind attacks.

(Shaka can even distort someone's perception of time and space, with his illusion, all of those proficient telepaths on their own).

Ikki himself evolves even through the reactive evolution of the Saints, you can see how Shaka completely erased Ikki's memories upon their first encounter:

Saint Seiya, Classic, Volume 5.

And don't forget how Shun without a Cloth, in Episode G Assassin, through the power of Ohm, can separate near 20 billion evil souls from Natasha, and he still shouldn't hold much of a candle to a peak Virgo Shaka. Heck, Cancer himself can destroy billions of souls. Ohm, in short, can be used by Shaka to separate any sort of malice from his opponent.

To not exclude Khan, a barrier that repels any attack sent towards him with malice:

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All in all though...nothing when compared to being sent in one of the six realms: Jigokukai, realm of the damned; Gakikai, the realm of ghosts; Chiku-Shôkai, the realm of beasts; Shurakai, the realm of the demigods; Jinkai, the realm of men; Tenkai, the realm of heaven.

You believe this it?

"Heaven Dancing Dharma..!"

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Tenbu Horin, or "Treasures of the Heavens", is the perfect attack and defense, in which causality itself, is well, frozen. The Truth of the universe is revealed, and you can do nothing, except having your five senses severed, and in the end, even the sixth sense destroyed.

Note, how such an ability, works even on Titans, acausal beings due to their nature as divine entities, them regenerating only due to Dunamis (and we all know how insane that is). Not only, even an ability such as Tenma Kofuku, is capable of summoning evil spirits or demons, beyond the horizon of causality in the Sixth Heaven. What does this mean? It means that Tenbu Horin as a whole would outscale such an ability, which means that even if you're acausal, transcend the concept of fate/cause and effect, it will still work on you.

Tenbu Horin, is basically a conceptual ability, that will freeze Shaka's enemy, and utterly annihilate him without mercy.

But! There is more. With scaling to Lost Canvas, from Virgo Asmita, Shaka's Tenbu Horin is massively buffed. Tenbu Horin is nothing more than the conceptualization of the "truth" of the universe, and everyone has inside of them a "infinite universe". It's basically their own Truth of the Universe being physically manifested in reality, even Atavaka calls his a "conceptualization". Asmita's Tenbu Horin can remove up to the 7th sense, until only the void is left, with even the soul being destroyed. When Atavaka is not affected by it due to his 8th sense, Asmita is seemingly erased by Atavaka's Tenbu Horin, but he returns thanks to the help of a mandala/soul sacrificing his senses for him. Asmita then adapts, and improves his own Tenbu Horin, turning it into the "Maten-Mu Horin", which severs even Atavaka's 8th sense, thus making him reincarnate, privating him of his own immortality(explained in 8th sense section how impressive it truly is).

For intent, Shijima described Shaka to be the strongest Virgo Gold Saint:

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"Santo de Virgo más poderoso desde la era mitológica".

And even if Next Dimension and Lost Canvas are separated timelines, I believe it should count, as first of all, Tenbu Horin is hereditary as an ability, plus, even if he can't use Maten-Mu Horin, Shaka can probably adapt his Tenbu Horin to be better.

So while it's arguable if Shaka can utilize a "Maten-Mu Horin", he can without doubt use his Tenbu Horin to remove up to the 7th sense, and in case, he'd likely adapt enough to improve it, like Asmita did.

Include that with Shaka's resistance to BFR, across complex dimensions and his 8th sense, something which makes him transcend dimensions of space to travel between them, space and time itself, his ridiculous immortality and soul resistance, and you've got yourself, a very big problem.

Initial conclusions!

I have not much knowledge on my opponent's character, Odin, so I'll refrain from making many comments.

For now, I will not formulate counters, but for sure, Shaka is someone with the capability of overwhelming foes that are demonic, foes that are godly, and foes that are even beyond that. So! For now, my only conclusions would be:

•Odin needs resistance to Shaka's tier of mind manipulation, senses removal, his causality manipulation, his reactive evolution, etc.;

•Odin needs to compete with the cosmic power here presented, but I have no doubts he can;

•Odin needs ways around Shaka's reactive evolution/adaptability, his Miracles, his resistances, etc.

With that said, I wish my opponent the best of luck, and may Buddha be with you(or something). Ohm.

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Start the Conversation

Respect, Pontos the Black Sea.

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"Stopping the true power of the gods is...impossible..."

The Black Sea, the great god and Primordial, Pontos. Overall, the main antagonist of the Episode G series, Pontos is without doubts, one of the most powerful and terrifying characters in Saint Seiya. As a force of nature, a quintessential form of existence, the Black Sea is nigh impossible to face in a direct fight. A higher being, who can manipulate the fate of humans and gods, on a whim...all for the only scope, of resurrecting his lover(and mother), Gaia.

Ability/functionExplanation
Cosmo:

The latent power of every Saint.

It exists in everything, the body, life, the soul, the whole universe. Manipulating Cosmo, is the capability of destroying the atoms themselves. Everything is made out of atoms, the planets, the stars, the whole universe, born from the Big Bang. The most proficient use Cosmo, is through triggering the "mini-universe" inside of any Saint, and making it explode, just like the Big Bang.

Senses:The extra-sensorial capabilities of Saints or Gods, which come along with extra advantages/abilities. The 7th sense, is usually "perfection", the mastery of Cosmo itself, which is why Gold Saints are known for their strenght. But the 7th sense, in reality, isn't the limit...
Cloth:The protection, granted from Athena, Goddess of War, to her devoted Saints. Through it, their statistics are massively upgraded, and so is their durability. They can survive otherwise lethal attacks thanks to it, but not only...certain Cloths, grant specific advantages and resistances. There are 88 Cloths in total, with only 12 of them being Gold Cloths, and the remaining 76 belonging to the Bronze and Silver class. The Kamui Cloths, are the ones that put a Saint on the level of the Gods, but they're moreso, a legend, and barely obtainable even in-verse.
Godly Ichor:The blood of the gods themselves. It grants several resistances and even advantages, and it's something that no mortal generally possesses...except a few.
Miracles:By burning their Cosmo to the limits and beyond, the Saints can turn impossibilities into possibilities. Something that lets mortals to defy the gods themselves.
Dunamis:The Cosmo of the Gods, naturally superior to the Cosmo of the mortals.

Unique abilities:

Every Saint possesses an ability unique to themselves, be it regarding physical strenght, esoteric powers, speed, etc.

The genesis: estabilishing the cosmology.

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Dunamis. Chaos, the beginning, what gave birth to all of creation, as the primordial void of chaos.

Shura himself, deduced the existence of independent parallel worlds:

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The worlds, universes...multiverses, existing throughout creation, are all originally created by the Primordial Gods, every single atom of them.

The ramifications of the whole cosmology, are built upon Dunamis, the Divine Will, something that creates the world, and expands universes infinitely, manipulating the very atoms of space-time, their laws, their structures, and concepts.

Even the Universal Truth, Karma, the principle of the world, of "everything flowing into each other", doesn't apply to the Divine Will, to Chaos itself.

Karma, being an accumulation of events that happen based on human choice, across the endless possibile futures, everything that exists, regulated by this concept...

...which is estabilished by the Dunamis.

The will of the gods, being like nature itself. An human, a being, cannot go against the very laws of reality, nor can they defy the harsh truth.

For a brief but exhaustive enough description:

The universe is born, but it also ends. People live, but they also die. Virgo Shaka's conversation with Buddha is an enlightement to that. Obtaining the 8th sense, means understanding Karma itself, and becoming enlightened.

Transcending the very concept of death, is what it means.

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Someone who is above the very laws imposed by Hades, the god of the underworld, its creator, an infinite world of despair and death.

An interesting thing that should be noticed, is how Karma is pretty much the structure of the Saint Seiya world. Something like the 7th sense, is already deeper than the soul, as it's the essence of the Cosmo. The 8th sense, achieving it, means becoming the "network" through which all the Karma flows through, its very essence on the most fundamental levels. The 9th sense meanwhile...is the complete transcendance of Karma itself, the power of the gods, above the "network", beyond the cycle of life, death and rebirth.

For those who achieve the 8th sense, much less the 9th, there are already tremendous advantages on an existential levels. Understanding the world, means the complete transcendance of the being to a higher dimension.

This being pretty consistent, someone like Regulus understanding how the principle of the world transcends space and even time due to his unique senses.

The 8th sense grants the capability to exist in different dimensions. To see through them and to exist in them at the same time, something so unreal that cannot even be imagined by the normal man.

But let's discuss of more meta-physical aspects of the Saint Seiya world, such as the Underworld, domain of death. An endless spanning realm, connected to the various worlds and dimensions.

How so? Aquarius Camus, someone from the Lost World, had to walk through the dark abyss of the Underworld, to reach his destination, another universe altogether.

Keeping in mind, that the power of the Crystal Vortex connects multiple realms to one another, and grants an interaction between the worlds. The existing worlds, infinite in scope, infinite actual presents. Even in the past, that particular past, would be it's own universe:

And even then, Hell itself, is a super dimensional space that goes beyond space-time, part of the very Underworld. Which is consistent with other extra-dimensional spaces existing in-verse.

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After going through the super-dimensional space, we have an endless meadow, the Elysium. All in all, the Saint Seiya world, is a fully, functioning massive multiverse, with extra-dimensional spaces and complex dimensions.

Which basically meets the limits of this tourney, an infinite multiverse, and at the very least, higher dimensional planes.

Cosmo: The power of the "big bang", the Seventh Sense.

Cosmo, the most important, fundamental element in the Saint Seiya world. Everything that exists in the universe, was originally created by the big bang. All the stars, nebulaes, galaxies, are composed of atoms, something any Cosmo user, learn to destroy while just Saints in training. And by that, I mean, anyone. They all target the very atomic structure of an object to destroy it, negating its durability altogether. Some advanced uses of Cosmo, even lets you achieve destruction on a quantum level, on both physical and spiritual plane, with the mildest of Cosmo users being capable of destroying on a level beyond even quarks. The Cloths themselves, are equipped with mini-black holes, that warp space itself, yet, these Cloths' durability is multiple times bypassed. The weakest Cloth, has multiple times over, the equivalent of 20 nukes, being detonated all at once on the surface of an asteroid with 10 kilometers of lenght, with the potency of the explosion compressing the whole body. Thus it's a no brainer that this level of atomic destruction, goes well beyond the normal, and is actually layered in nature, due to the multiple showings of resistances to such being bypassed.

Proficient Cosmo users, are capable of producing extreme levels of heat, reaching millions of degrees, from there, the "burn my Cosmo", is actually literal in the very sense.

Or even, transcend the very laws of physics:

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The capacity to destroy souls, comes as a feeble, any Cosmo user can pretty much affect someone on a spiritual plane as well, someone like Cancer Deathmask, a low tier Gold Saint, can effectively destroy near 20 billion souls in one single shot. And of course, how can we forget the typical, "an ability never works twice on a saint", which well, tells you everything. After understanding how such an ability, that previously affected them, works, they'll be immune to it, becoming resistant.

But besides that, we have one of the most unique power systems you might find around, always through the applications of Cosmo, and...

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The Senses. Besides the five senses, known to everyone, it exists a sixth sense, the one of precognition and intuition, what lets you perceive everything around yourself, your very mind.

But besides that, the source of Cosmo itself, is...the 7th sense, Cosmo itself, what lets a Saint achieve Miracles, by turning impossibilities in possibilities, it being present in anyone's soul, just deep down, locked.

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In short, the highest possible level of Cosmo, a mortal can achieve. To give you an example, Virgo Shaka deprived Ikki Phoenix, of his 6 senses:

Yet, due to his 7th sense, Cosmo, he was still able to fight and move, proving how this goes beyond the mere mind and body's functions, but its fundamental functions are on a deep, spiritual level. And keep in mind, anyone with 6th sense, can use Cosmo already.

The infinite human potential, is what lets them achieve Miracles. To against fate, the set destiny, and manifesting an impossible reality, being the "hero" of the world.

And that's impressive, when the gods quite literally oppose humans by manipulating fate(cough Karma a concept) itself, utterly making it an impossible struggle to go against them, without failing miserably.

And this...this is almost poetic. Once again, always because of Miracles, the infinite human potential, their infinite possibilities.

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Being brought into reality, through their Cosmo, even killing the gods themselves, and bypassing their defenses.

The Arayashiki: awakening of the Eighth Sense:

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Virgo Shaka, Gold Saint of the Virgo constellation.

We've already presented an introduction of the 8th sense, but I believe it should be made clear, what it entails.

The life beyond death, defying the imposed laws imposed by Hades, lord of the Underworld, and not dying while in his domain. It's an estabilished law of death, and being in the Underworld, means losing your own personality and identity:

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The Alaya Consciousness, which lets the Saints survive in the Underworld, by having authority over their own soul, controlling it to the fullest. And that's saying something, keep in mind, the Word of God, presented the fact that Shaka was reduced into nothingness, by the Athena Exclamation:

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The 8th sense, is nothing more than being one with the Alaya "Network", the main component of the world, which goes beyond time and space. The ability to move between dimensions, even higher ones.

Transcending death itself, the 8th sense is even superior to the 7th sense, it's something that goes beyond just Cosmo...

The Alaya Consciousness (from Sanskrit àlaya-vijnana) is also called "the alaya receptacle of perceptions" or "the repository of karma." It is the eighth of the nine consciousnesses. It is located at a deeper level than the ordinary consciousness. It is so called because all the karma created during the present, past, and future lives are stored there. This "deep-to-laya" is considered to be that which passes through the cycle of birth and death, and forms the framework of an individual existence. All the acts and experiences of life that pass through the first seven levels of consciousness are accumulated as karma in this âlaya-bottom, which in turn influences the functioning of the other consciousnesses, arguing that all phenomena originate from the âlaya-consciousness and that it is therefore the one and only reality.

The nine consciousnesses are nine kinds of discernment. The

The term "consciousness" is a translation of the Sanskrit word vijnana, which means "discernment". > These are

-1- visual awareness (chakshur-vijnana)

-2- auditory awareness (shrota-vijnana)

-3- Olfactory awareness (ghrana-vijnana)

-4- Taste awareness (jhiva-vijnana)

-5- tactile awareness (kaya-vijnana)

-6- mental awareness (mano-vijnana)

-7- the mano consciousness (mano-vijnana) [identical name for the 6th and the 7th].

The first five consciousnesses correspond to the five senses. The sixth integrates the perceptions of the five senses into coherent images and evaluates the external world.

It means being one with the network that encompasses all the past, present, and future, your consciousness/mind, is one with it, your very soul gains independence. In conclusion, the 8th sense, is a layer of the conscience that lets you transcend the dimensions of space, move through different, complex dimensions, understand the flow of Karma, the Alayashiki network, and go beyond just "life and death".

The Amalashiki: The "nothingness" of the Ninth Sense.

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The Divine Will, the peak of the nine senses of the consciousness, in Saint Seiya. The 8th sense, nothing to such a level of power, it being the pure void and nothingness, that covers everything.

As we presented already, the power that creates, and extends the universe ad infinitum, is Dunamis. Everything in creation, every single component, comes from it, the primordial chaos.

Because the Divine Will, is Chaos. Everything is turned into absolute nothingness, even something that threaten the whole structure of the Underworld, and is capable of punching through it, separating the border between life and death.

Aiolos, claims himself capable of conquering the Underworld through this power. But for more...

Zeus/Aiolia, someone with the Ninth sense, erased the Underworld, one of the worlds, with a single, Lightning Void. Something beyond the scope of space and time, completely destroyed, fallen into ebony darkness. The endless souls in it, completely condemned, and destined to disappear due to this immense power.

But there's more:

Unlike the first six consciousnesses, which concern the outer world, the seventh, or "mano consciousness", discerns the inner spiritual world. Self-awareness and attachment to the self would have their origin in it, as would the ability to distil good and evil. The eighth, or "âlaya consciousness," is considered the basis of all life functions. The ninth consciousness, the "amala consciousness," located at a deeper level, is free of all karmic impurities that may be present in the álaya consciousness. This ninth consciousness is defined as the basis of all spiritual functions and corresponds to the true entity of life, the state of "Buddha" ("awakened" in Sanskrit).

The Ninth Consciousness, the "amala consciousness", leaves you free of karmic impurities, and of its eternal cycle.

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The clashing thoughts destroying the previous eight senses, until nothing remains, bringing forth true chaos and a void, erasing the alaya consciousness, and bringing forth "amalashiki", or so we can call it.

Such an immense burden on the mind, that can destroy even the eighth consciousness, should already tell enough of the ridiculous potency of the ninth consciousness. And it basically makes any attempt of attacking the mind of these individuals, useless, as there's basically nothing to control, said "nothingness", going beyond the infinite network that is alaya, someone that with the eighth sense can understand and become one with.

In short: Amala Consciousness/Ninth Sense=nothingness, chaos>>Alaya Consciousness/Eighth Sense==>one with the infinite flow of Karma, and its network, across past, present and future>>life, death, time and space.

(Note: This doesn't make Eighth Sense users, higher dimensional beings, but beings capable of affecting/reaching such structures).

With the usual basics listed, let's present what the Primordial, Pontos, is capable of. Note, I won't scale him to the likes of Kronos, or Zeus-Aiolia, as he simply doesn't need it, even though he is without doubts in a similiar tier. Pontos works in the shadows, a terrifying mind, that'll do anything to accomplish his plans, even if it involves the death of many..

Divine power:

Stomps Leo Aiolia without trying:

Right to left

•Far superior to Gold Saints, and they shatter stars,lift something with the weight of the celestial sphere and its constellation, shattering it,can destroy galaxies or even erase whole dimensions:

•Pontos, as a great god, is responsible for the existence of all of creation, being the root of it, a higher being.

•Pontos in Episode G Requiem, erased all the constellations:

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•At least comparable, if not far superior, to characters that can crush the Sanctuary in one single blow:

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Here explained, why impressive.

Besides that, there's not much about him in raw feats, considering he mostly works behind the scenes, however, conventional attacks will simply not work, due to..

Right to left, Ars Magna.

Divine speed:

The Black Sea:

First and foremost, as a Primordial existence, Pontos is simply a higher dimensional being:

Note, how from different spin-offs, this is consistent with other gods:

From different dimensions of the humans, some (crazy) gods, like Mephistopheles, a fallen one at that, seeing humans like you would consider the characters of a script of a show. That's how far above mortals, gods are.

He manifests as a phantom, someone who's a force of nature, who can manipulate the fate and destiny of man and gods even (gods being generally out of the system of fate).

Right to left

He controls the principle of the "force", something that is his mere will as a higher existence. He, who controls Dunamis:

The origin of the world and all of its atoms, the Dunamis, and his complete control over even the will of another god, the destinies of everyone being but a part of the plans of the great gods.

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Even his illusions are so powerful, they can actually cause physical harm. Superior in powers to even the Titans(such as Galaxy Kreios), Pontos is overall, a greater type of existence.

Ars Magna, an impenetrable defense, that won't get scratched unless you can interact with the physical existence of a god(which isn't easy, considering Divine Punishment). But besides the standard physiology of a god..

With powerful moves such as Melas Kyma, Pontos can destroy everything around himself, sucking everything inside such vortex, on a sub atomic level.

But this is nothing...everything sinks into the Black Sea. The origin of everything, it's Karma, the law imposed by the gods upon the humans, they shall return to the Sea of Pontos, their body, souls, will, identity, mind, completely erased, returning to the root of their creation(even with the creation of creatures that are neither dead, nor alive).

Following a different logic/laws, than the ones of humans:

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The Primordial chaos that created everything, that's what Pontos is, the root of all that exists, and everything born from it, shall return to the Black Sea.

Let's not exclude, how he is capable to put someone under his control, making them their slaves(although shown with Hyperion already in a different case), through Arkhein Control:

For some misc:

Gods can ignore physical attacks normally; Kronus can bring the "death" of any element in nature, except the eternal and perpetual lightning of Zeus;

•Gods can strip someone of their 6 senses by merely raising their Divine Cosmo;

Divine Deflection;

•Gods impose Karma, but they're unbound by it making them acausal by default, just some of their Ichor can save someone from being changed and rejected by the universe, the space-time itself;

•A god is a higher being. Different flows of time followed:

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Overall, a true, heartless, unstoppable force.

Overall..

Pontos is honestly in the tier of beings like Kronus, simply due to his immense cunning and his impossible abilities. One of the gods of creation, a Primordial being, someone who can toy with the fates of anyone he so wishes is needed for his plans to proceed...

The Black Sea of Pontos, is HIM.

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Thank you for reading.

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~~~Respect, Leo Aiolia(composite), the fierce Lion!~~~

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"For all those who died because of your stupid pride...and for John Black, who died because of your ridiculous violence...I'll give you...

...a death by the name of despair!"

Aiolia, or Aioria, the Gold Saint of the constellation of Leo, an unique top tier among the rest of the Gold Saints as a whole, while also the main character of the canon spin-off Saint Seiya: Episode G.

Aiolia is an incredibly prideful character, but his sense of honor and justice are what makes him one of the greatest Gold Saints to have ever existed, always believing in humanity's potential, and never letting even the gods themselves to step on the value of the human race.

Having defeated various gods, and even Kronos himself in Episode G, at one point the soul of Zeus himself possessing his body, or more, the body of "another him", in Episode G Assassin, the story behind this character is a complex one. To make you understand, the Aiolia in Saint Seiya: Episode G Assassin, is not the Aiolia of Saint Seiya: Episode G, but the Aiolia from another world, whose soul gets later on, possessed by Zeus himself, Aiolia merely retaining the memories of the Aiolia of Saint Seiya: Episode G...and yeah, complicated.

This character receives a ton of amps throughout the series, so this is mostly a composite, which includes his Zeus/Aiolia version. With that said, as per usual..

Ability/functionExplanation
Cosmo:

The latent power of every Saint.

It exists in everything, the body, life, the soul, the whole universe. Manipulating Cosmo, is the capability of destroying the atoms themselves. Everything is made out of atoms, the planets, the stars, the whole universe, born from the Big Bang. The most proficient use Cosmo, is through triggering the "mini-universe" inside of any Saint, and making it explode, just like the Big Bang.

Senses:The extra-sensorial capabilities of Saints or Gods, which come along with extra advantages/abilities. The 7th sense, is usually "perfection", the mastery of Cosmo itself, which is why Gold Saints are known for their strenght. But the 7th sense, in reality, isn't the limit...
Cloth:The protection, granted from Athena, Goddess of War, to her devoted Saints. Through it, their statistics are massively upgraded, and so is their durability. They can survive otherwise lethal attacks thanks to it, but not only...certain Cloths, grant specific advantages and resistances. There are 88 Cloths in total, with only 12 of them being Gold Cloths, and the remaining 76 belonging to the Bronze and Silver class. The Kamui Cloths, are the ones that put a Saint on the level of the Gods, but they're moreso, a legend, and barely obtainable even in-verse.
Godly Ichor:The blood of the gods themselves. It grants several resistances and even advantages, and it's something that no mortal generally possesses...except a few.
Miracles:By burning their Cosmo to the limits and beyond, the Saints can turn impossibilities into possibilities. Something that lets mortals to defy the gods themselves.
Dunamis:The Cosmo of the Gods, naturally superior to the Cosmo of the mortals.

Unique abilities:

Every Saint possesses an ability unique to themselves, be it regarding physical strenght, esoteric powers, speed, etc.

The genesis: estabilishing the cosmology.

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Dunamis. Chaos, the beginning, what gave birth to all of creation, as the primordial void of chaos.

Shura himself, deduced the existence of independent parallel worlds:

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The worlds, universes...multiverses, existing throughout creation, are all originally created by the Primordial Gods, every single atom of them.

The ramifications of the whole cosmology, are built upon Dunamis, the Divine Will, something that creates the world, and expands universes infinitely, manipulating the very atoms of space-time, their laws, their structures, and concepts.

Even the Universal Truth, Karma, the principle of the world, of "everything flowing into each other", doesn't apply to the Divine Will, to Chaos itself.

Karma, being an accumulation of events that happen based on human choice, across the endless possibile futures, everything that exists, regulated by this concept...

...which is estabilished by the Dunamis.

The will of the gods, being like nature itself. An human, a being, cannot go against the very laws of reality, nor can they defy the harsh truth.

For a brief but exhaustive enough description:

The universe is born, but it also ends. People live, but they also die. Virgo Shaka's conversation with Buddha is an enlightement to that. Obtaining the 8th sense, means understanding Karma itself, and becoming enlightened.

Transcending the very concept of death, is what it means.

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Someone who is above the very laws imposed by Hades, the god of the underworld, its creator, an infinite world of despair and death.

An interesting thing that should be noticed, is how Karma is pretty much the structure of the Saint Seiya world. Something like the 7th sense, is already deeper than the soul, as it's the essence of the Cosmo. The 8th sense, achieving it, means becoming the "network" through which all the Karma flows through, its very essence on the most fundamental levels. The 9th sense meanwhile...is the complete transcendance of Karma itself, the power of the gods, above the "network", beyond the cycle of life, death and rebirth.

For those who achieve the 8th sense, much less the 9th, there are already tremendous advantages on an existential levels. Understanding the world, means the complete transcendance of the being to a higher dimension.

This being pretty consistent, someone like Regulus understanding how the principle of the world transcends space and even time due to his unique senses.

The 8th sense grants the capability to exist in different dimensions. To see through them and to exist in them at the same time, something so unreal that cannot even be imagined by the normal man.

But let's discuss of more meta-physical aspects of the Saint Seiya world, such as the Underworld, domain of death. An endless spanning realm, connected to the various worlds and dimensions.

How so? Aquarius Camus, someone from the Lost World, had to walk through the dark abyss of the Underworld, to reach his destination, another universe altogether.

Keeping in mind, that the power of the Crystal Vortex connects multiple realms to one another, and grants an interaction between the worlds. The existing worlds, infinite in scope, infinite actual presents. Even in the past, that particular past, would be it's own universe:

And even then, Hell itself, is a super dimensional space that goes beyond space-time, part of the very Underworld. Which is consistent with other extra-dimensional spaces existing in-verse.

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After going through the super-dimensional space, we have an endless meadow, the Elysium. All in all, the Saint Seiya world, is a fully, functioning massive multiverse, with extra-dimensional spaces and complex dimensions.

Which basically meets the limits of this tourney, an infinite multiverse, and at the very least, higher dimensional planes.

Cosmo: The power of the "big bang", the Seventh Sense.

Cosmo, the most important, fundamental element in the Saint Seiya world. Everything that exists in the universe, was originally created by the big bang. All the stars, nebulaes, galaxies, are composed of atoms, something any Cosmo user, learn to destroy while just Saints in training. And by that, I mean, anyone. They all target the very atomic structure of an object to destroy it, negating its durability altogether. Some advanced uses of Cosmo, even lets you achieve destruction on a quantum level, on both physical and spiritual plane, with the mildest of Cosmo users being capable of destroying on a level beyond even quarks. The Cloths themselves, are equipped with mini-black holes, that warp space itself, yet, these Cloths' durability is multiple times bypassed. The weakest Cloth, has multiple times over, the equivalent of 20 nukes, being detonated all at once on the surface of an asteroid with 10 kilometers of lenght, with the potency of the explosion compressing the whole body. Thus it's a no brainer that this level of atomic destruction, goes well beyond the normal, and is actually layered in nature, due to the multiple showings of resistances to such being bypassed.

Proficient Cosmo users, are capable of producing extreme levels of heat, reaching millions of degrees, from there, the "burn my Cosmo", is actually literal in the very sense.

Or even, transcend the very laws of physics:

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The capacity to destroy souls, comes as a feeble, any Cosmo user can pretty much affect someone on a spiritual plane as well, someone like Cancer Deathmask, a low tier Gold Saint, can effectively destroy near 20 billion souls in one single shot. And of course, how can we forget the typical, "an ability never works twice on a saint", which well, tells you everything. After understanding how such an ability, that previously affected them, works, they'll be immune to it, becoming resistant.

But besides that, we have one of the most unique power systems you might find around, always through the applications of Cosmo, and...

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The Senses. Besides the five senses, known to everyone, it exists a sixth sense, the one of precognition and intuition, what lets you perceive everything around yourself, your very mind.

But besides that, the source of Cosmo itself, is...the 7th sense, Cosmo itself, what lets a Saint achieve Miracles, by turning impossibilities in possibilities, it being present in anyone's soul, just deep down, locked.

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In short, the highest possible level of Cosmo, a mortal can achieve. To give you an example, Virgo Shaka deprived Ikki Phoenix, of his 6 senses:

Yet, due to his 7th sense, Cosmo, he was still able to fight and move, proving how this goes beyond the mere mind and body's functions, but its fundamental functions are on a deep, spiritual level. And keep in mind, anyone with 6th sense, can use Cosmo already.

The infinite human potential, is what lets them achieve Miracles. To against fate, the set destiny, and manifesting an impossible reality, being the "hero" of the world.

And that's impressive, when the gods quite literally oppose humans by manipulating fate(cough Karma a concept) itself, utterly making it an impossible struggle to go against them, without failing miserably.

And this...this is almost poetic. Once again, always because of Miracles, the infinite human potential, their infinite possibilities.

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Being brought into reality, through their Cosmo, even killing the gods themselves, and bypassing their defenses.

The Arayashiki: awakening of the Eighth Sense:

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Virgo Shaka, Gold Saint of the Virgo constellation.

We've already presented an introduction of the 8th sense, but I believe it should be made clear, what it entails.

The life beyond death, defying the imposed laws imposed by Hades, lord of the Underworld, and not dying while in his domain. It's an estabilished law of death, and being in the Underworld, means losing your own personality and identity:

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The Alaya Consciousness, which lets the Saints survive in the Underworld, by having authority over their own soul, controlling it to the fullest. And that's saying something, keep in mind, the Word of God, presented the fact that Shaka was reduced into nothingness, by the Athena Exclamation:

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The 8th sense, is nothing more than being one with the Alaya "Network", the main component of the world, which goes beyond time and space. The ability to move between dimensions, even higher ones.

Transcending death itself, the 8th sense is even superior to the 7th sense, it's something that goes beyond just Cosmo...

The Alaya Consciousness (from Sanskrit àlaya-vijnana) is also called "the alaya receptacle of perceptions" or "the repository of karma." It is the eighth of the nine consciousnesses. It is located at a deeper level than the ordinary consciousness. It is so called because all the karma created during the present, past, and future lives are stored there. This "deep-to-laya" is considered to be that which passes through the cycle of birth and death, and forms the framework of an individual existence. All the acts and experiences of life that pass through the first seven levels of consciousness are accumulated as karma in this âlaya-bottom, which in turn influences the functioning of the other consciousnesses, arguing that all phenomena originate from the âlaya-consciousness and that it is therefore the one and only reality.

The nine consciousnesses are nine kinds of discernment. The

The term "consciousness" is a translation of the Sanskrit word vijnana, which means "discernment". > These are

-1- visual awareness (chakshur-vijnana)

-2- auditory awareness (shrota-vijnana)

-3- Olfactory awareness (ghrana-vijnana)

-4- Taste awareness (jhiva-vijnana)

-5- tactile awareness (kaya-vijnana)

-6- mental awareness (mano-vijnana)

-7- the mano consciousness (mano-vijnana) [identical name for the 6th and the 7th].

The first five consciousnesses correspond to the five senses. The sixth integrates the perceptions of the five senses into coherent images and evaluates the external world.

It means being one with the network that encompasses all the past, present, and future, your consciousness/mind, is one with it, your very soul gains independence. In conclusion, the 8th sense, is a layer of the conscience that lets you transcend the dimensions of space, move through different, complex dimensions, understand the flow of Karma, the Alayashiki network, and go beyond just "life and death".

The Amalashiki: The "nothingness" of the Ninth Sense.

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The Divine Will, the peak of the nine senses of the consciousness, in Saint Seiya. The 8th sense, nothing to such a level of power, it being the pure void and nothingness, that covers everything.

As we presented already, the power that creates, and extends the universe ad infinitum, is Dunamis. Everything in creation, every single component, comes from it, the primordial chaos.

Because the Divine Will, is Chaos. Everything is turned into absolute nothingness, even something that threaten the whole structure of the Underworld, and is capable of punching through it, separating the border between life and death.

Aiolos, claims himself capable of conquering the Underworld through this power. But for more...

Zeus/Aiolia, someone with the Ninth sense, erased the Underworld, one of the worlds, with a single, Lightning Void. Something beyond the scope of space and time, completely destroyed, fallen into ebony darkness. The endless souls in it, completely condemned, and destined to disappear due to this immense power.

But there's more:

Unlike the first six consciousnesses, which concern the outer world, the seventh, or "mano consciousness", discerns the inner spiritual world. Self-awareness and attachment to the self would have their origin in it, as would the ability to distil good and evil. The eighth, or "âlaya consciousness," is considered the basis of all life functions. The ninth consciousness, the "amala consciousness," located at a deeper level, is free of all karmic impurities that may be present in the álaya consciousness. This ninth consciousness is defined as the basis of all spiritual functions and corresponds to the true entity of life, the state of "Buddha" ("awakened" in Sanskrit).

The Ninth Consciousness, the "amala consciousness", leaves you free of karmic impurities, and of its eternal cycle.

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The clashing thoughts destroying the previous eight senses, until nothing remains, bringing forth true chaos and a void, erasing the alaya consciousness, and bringing forth "amalashiki", or so we can call it.

Such an immense burden on the mind, that can destroy even the eighth consciousness, should already tell enough of the ridiculous potency of the ninth consciousness. And it basically makes any attempt of attacking the mind of these individuals, useless, as there's basically nothing to control, said "nothingness", going beyond the infinite network that is alaya, someone that with the eighth sense can understand and become one with.

In short: Amala Consciousness/Ninth Sense=nothingness, chaos>>Alaya Consciousness/Eighth Sense==>one with the infinite flow of Karma, and its network, across past, present and future>>life, death, time and space.

(Note: This doesn't make Eighth Sense users, higher dimensional beings, but beings capable of affecting/reaching such structures).

Peak Aiolia would possess:

The Seventh Sense;

•The Eighth Sense;

•The Ninth Sense/Divine Will/Dunamis.

However, the former two, are rendered void and nothing, due to the nature of the Ninth Sense, which surpasses them, and can let him do whatever the previous senses can, but actually better, transcending them as a whole.

By default, as Zeus/Aiolia, he would be capable to manipulate fate, causality, literal concepts, due to the nature of Dunamis, manipulating the laws of the universe itself, and its very elemental particles, the control of the "world", so to speak, rendering any ability that opposes(naturally, on the scale shown), into "absolute nothing", having the perpetual and eternal lightning of Zeus himself, something that overrides the authority of even Kronus' "death" control of the elements. Which also, sealed him during the Titanomachia.

With that said...let's estabilish the strenght of the Leo!

Strenght of his fangs:

•Gold Saints, can shatter stars with lightspeed attacks;

•Weaker characters such as Aldebaran, can lift Themis' scale, something with the weight of the celestial sphere and its countless stars;

Aiolia's Photon Burst, rivals Galaxian Explosions (which destroy galaxies), and according to the Galaxian Encyclopedia, it rivals the big bang in damage output;

•With Dunamis, Aiolia can rival Kronus. For details on Kronus;

•Lightning Plasma, is at least 100 million light speed attacks per second, all at once:

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•While possessed by Zeus, Aiolia collapsed the whole structure of the Underworld with one single Lightning Void;

Zeus/Aiolia can make everything disappear, fall into the void;

•Far inferior characters, can tank Galaxian Explosions:

Episode G.

Zeus/Aiolia should scale above the likes of Hades, who holds up all of the realms he created by just existing;

•Should scale above the result of the clash of two Athena Exclamations:

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...

*Athena Exclamation, whose power is equal to that of the Big Bang, if they encounter with each other, the destructive force will not merely grow many times, not even squared or tripled, it'll will increase to infinity.*

...

*If that happens, not only this Virgo House, but the 12 houses...no, the whole Sanctuary could be extinguished. *

-Credit to @joviolma for translations.

Aka, universe destroying power that multiplies by infinity(which isn't enough for the Wall of Lamentation, the light of the sun needed in the Underworld, where it doesn't exist).

Speed of god-like lightning:

•Gold Saints can achieve faster than light speeds.

Episode G

Scales above Shura surpassing the speed of the initial expansion of the universe, Ares Mu absorbing a whole dimension with countless stars(universe by intent), etc;

•Far weaker saints, can cross a dimension with galaxies inside in a relatively short time-frame, a weaker god in Thanatos being capable of attacking across the light years and that same dimension;

•Can keep up with speed that "transcends the speed of light", in a weaker version(not Zeus/Aiolia).

There are other speed feats, like Saints exchanging attacks from universes away:

Episode G Assassin

I'd say that's enough.

Abilities:

Conceptually lightning brrr(which could even seal Yitans+Kronus);

Void manipulation/absolute nothingness;

•Dunamis;

Acausality;

Divine Deflection, usual fate manipulation, attacks on a sub atomic level, and everything gods like Kronos possess;

•Zeus himself obviously implied to embody the "Heavens":

Classic
Classic

•Cutting through Zeus' soul, does someone more harm than good, even if that someone is Shura:

Episode G Assassin

•Same Shura can severe billions of souls, and bypass several other things such as astral, non existent and incorporeal armors, but for infos on Shura, here.

Overall!

Aiolia alone, is a powerful Gold Saint on his own, but when amped by Dunamis(and Miracles lul), he is capable of overwhelming even Kronus.

Zeus/Aiolia as a consequence, is a multiversal threat. Considering how he even could destroy the Black Core, something that stops multiple worlds from going through a gravitational collapse whenever the Crystal Vortex, something that can connect to alternative dimensions, futures, worlds, is used,

All of time was a mess, and once the Great Zeus' soul was severed, time started to fix itself. Destroying the Underworld, bringing everything into nothingness, was something he failed to accomplish... but who knows, he might not fail in another occasion, against someone else.

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Thank you for reading.

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