Sakazuki.
Erkan12's forum posts
To this thread :
@ancient_legend said:
I would like to chime in here.
First, yes I have read most of the books, including about Darth Caedus. Also about Mace Windu.
In my humble opinion, most of your are writing Windu off far to easy. Wait!!!
Before you call for my head, I ask only that you hear me out please.
First, as I understand it, their are no sneak attacks or stealth kills allowed, this is a face each other, bow, then begin fighting death match. If im wrong, please tell me.
Second, with Mace's mastery of Vaapad, he was able to keep up with the much more powerful Darth Sidious while using Vaapad. Vaapad, in simple terms allows him to take the darkness of anyone hes fighting, and turn it against his enemy. Now, again, hear me out.
From what we learned during his fight with Sidious, Vaapad can bring Mace's power up to about even with any dark sider he is fighting. Then, he can fight effortlessly, (taken straight from the episode 3 novel), with his enemy, and begin to think about strategy, or even use his Shatterpoint ability.
Third, I know Darth Caedus can also use Shatterpoint, but in my opinion he would be so focused on cutting Windu down in saber combat, and so angry that he could not, that he would not have time, and or, the ability to try, with Mace Windu all over him and attacking Caedus with speed and power that matches his own.
I think Mace Windu takes round 1 9/10 because of the above stated reasons.
Round 2 and 3 are a bit more ambiguous because aside from force lightning, we are never really told how other force powers would work on Mace while he gives himself fully to Vaapad, but I would imagine the effects would be similar, Mace would reflect the powers back at the caster, be it choke, lightning, etc.
That being said I don't we have a clear enough understanding of Vaapad's full capability's to make a solid judgment call. The only thing we do know, is that Mace was able to reflect sith lightning from the at the time, considered by most, to be the most powerful dark side user to have ever lived, right back at him, and melt his face/mask off.
Agreed, (again)
Also for addition to Mace's TK defense, in RotS comic book, Mace already proved that he can resist an telekinetic attack from Darth Sidious; right here :
He can also deflect a powerful force lightning as we've seen it before.
@jantjepeter said:
@erkan12: Fisto can beat Maul ,
Padawan Kenobi sliced his lightsaber in half ( If Maul was alot better he would never let this happen ) .
That has nothing to do with the duel, Kenobi won because Maul thought that fight was over and Obi-Wan was unarmed, he completely forgot Qui-Gon's lightsaber there.
Here is the part saying that TPM Maul was better than TPM Kenobi, even though Kenobi was amped, he was still no match for TPM Maul ;
The battle wore on, and for a time it was fought evenly. But Darth Maul was the stronger of the two and was driven by a frenzy that surpassed even the frantic determination that fueled Obi-Wan. Eventually, the Sith Lord began to wear the young Jedi down. Bit by bit, he pressed him back, carrying the attack to him, looking to catch him off guard. Obi-Wan could sense his
body weakening, and his fear of what it would mean if he, too, were to fall, began to grow.
Never! he swore furiously. Qui-Gon's words came back to him. Don't center on your fears. Concentrate on the here and now. He struggled to do so, to contain the emotions warring within and bearing him down. Be mindful of the living Force, my young Padawan. Be strong. Sensing his opportunity slipping away from him and his strength waning, Obi-Wan mounted a final assault. He rushed the Sith Lord with a series of side blows designed to bring the two-bladed lightsaber horizontal. Then he feinted an attack to his enemy's left and brought his own lightsaber over and down with such force that he severed the other's weapon. Crying out in fury, he cut triumphantly at the Sith Lord's horned head, a killing blow. And missed completely. Darth Maul, anticipating the maneuver, had stepped smoothly away. Discarding the lesser half of his severed weapon, he counterattacked swiftly, striking at Obi-Wan with enough force that he knocked the young Jedi sideways and off balance. Quickly he struck him again, harder still, and this time Obi-Wan lost his footing completely and tumbled over the edge of the pit, his lightsaber flying from his hand. For an instant, he was falling, tumbling away into the dark. He reached out in desperation and caught hold of a metal rung just below the lip of the pit. There he hung, helpless, staring up at a triumphant Darth Maul.
Source : The Phantom Menace Novelization
Also Kenobi being a Padawan is irrelevant, Qui-Gon already told to jedi council that Obi-Wan was ready for being a jedi knight, and after the duel in Naboo (only one day after), Obi-Wan has become a jedi knight.
@jantjepeter said:
And kit fisto is even better then current Obi - Wan .
I'm not saying Kenobi is better than Cyborg maul ( maul owns Kenobi ) , but Fisto is better than Kenobi and he can take on cyborg Maul imo )
Obi-Wan and Kit had been engaged for an hour now, each seeking holes in the other’s defense. Obi-Wan swiftly discovered that Kit was the better swordfighter,astonishingly aggressive and intuitive
As for Kit Fisto & Obi-Wan, it is saying that better swordfighter, not better duelist. Sparring matches are not good examples, so my advice don't use sparring matches in discussions, if we are going to use sparring matches for this discussions that means; Windu was equal to Saesee Tiin and Quinlan Vos. Which is completely nonsense.
Though since you asked for, Obi-Wan was comparing his defensive style with Kit's offensive style,
Obi-Wan and Kit had been engaged for an hour now, each seeking holes in the other's defense. Obi-Wan swiftly discovered that Kit was the better swordfighter, astonishingly aggressive and intuitive in comparison with Obi-Wan's more measured style.
which is true that Fisto is fast and aggressive that doesn't mean he was better duelist.
Here is the Fisto's duel with Asajj Ventress ;
"Your pleasure," Kit hissed, and went at her. He was like fire, Ventress like smoke. The dance had substance but not form, a blur of light that seemed impossibly fast, unbelievably deadly. The two leapt and swerved, collided and bounced away. Single against double light-blades. Hands,
knees, feet, all in a mind-numbing blur. Obi-Wan would have given his right hand to join. Or even to watch such a display. But he had his own worries, his own battle to fight. He struggled with the urge to simply draw his lightsaber and slaughter the X'Ting. His enemies came on and on, struck quickly but clumsily, got in each other's way. Obi-Wan was direct in attack, and as elusive as a breeze. He'd missed the engagement, but suddenly Kit was down! Wounded and groggy from a kick in the jaw, for the first time Ventress had pierced his guard. Her left hand saber sliced his arm but as sparks flew he dove away from her left blade, leaning into a glancing blow from her right. Obi-Wan heard the scream but couldn't see the wound's severity. Kit rolled as Ventress came at him, splashing down into the lake. Ventress stood on the dock smiling hugely, arms and legs spread in triumph, laughing
in that arctic voice. The Jedi tore his way through the X'Ting, breaking arms and legs as he
went, then drew his lightsaber. "This is between me and Ventress," he screamed. Enough of this play! "Anyone who stands between us, dies. Translate it, Ventress!"
Source : The Cestus Deception
Asajj defeated Fisto in this lightsaber duel, true that Asajj watched Fisto's movements before the duel, however I don't believe that gives a huge advantage to Asajj, so at worst Asajj & Fisto are equal fighters here.
Though Obi-Wan was losing to Ventress as well, but he didn't, after this duel he encounter with Asajj Ventress many times and never lost.
Obi-Wan vs. Ventress previous duels ;
Gallery
As for comparisons between Kit Fisto - Asajj Ventress - Obi-Wan and Maul, you can clearly see Maul & Savage's superiority over Asajj Ventress & Obi-Wan ;
Maul & Savage vs. Obi-Wan & Asajj
''But not even their combined might was enough to defeat brothers... Forcing Obi-Wan & Ventress to make a narrow escape.''
And not to mention, this Maul was before his prime, he has grown much stronger after this duel. Means he can easily defeats the likes of Savage, Kit Fisto, Asajj Ventress etc. As for Kenobi, since he perfected his Soresu after AotC, it is hard to penetrate it for even Maul, but he can defeat him via force attacks which he actually did and defeated Kenobi 3 times.
Log in to comment