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Enyalios

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Old thread but I just saw it so. Its been a bit since I saw the Scorpion King but if we are going to go by low points, never actually attacking someone in the open and not beating Memnon (who was less impressive than Achilles) in melee, both of which the OP call for, not to mention getting captured by mooks, aren’t really enough to give Mathyus the win here either.

Mathyus’s highest point for single combat arguably was beating Michael Clark Duncan’s character. Hector’s was beating Ajax, who I would take over Michael Clark Duncan. Hector’s standard melee loadout (sword, spear, and shield) are also more versatile than Mathayus’s range of simple melee weapons shown in the Scorpion King.

Neither actor showed any exceptional skill with their weapons. Eric Bana never seemed to know what to do with his shield (though he did better with the cressant shield in his first two fights than the hoplon style one he uses in his fight with Achilles) and Dwayne Johnson was horrible with a sword.

Still Hector’s more conservative, defensive style in the movie plays well against Mathayus’s head on, let’s never try to flank style. I think he could hold Mathayas off until he gives him an open, which he does quite often in the movie.

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Enyalios

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Tyr. As much as I like Worf, he generally loses most of his fights, with his time on DS9 being his highlight area. Tyr is a better fighter and strategist, his plans have layers, as opposed to Worf who typically just charges forward. Tyr has this pretty easily.

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Neither, it is inherent powers that Thor is born with due to his unique heritage as half-elder god through his mother.

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Enyalios

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A little more about it:
http://www.newsarama.com/25407-black-knight-returns-in-all-new-all-different-marvel-series.html

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Enyalios

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Yeah I kind of have to agree with the WTF responses to some of this. Ant-Man is definitely not Marvel's first mid tier hero. If anything, that is Captain America. He is definitely not on the level of Hulk and Thor but can hang in those levels for a little bit. At the same time he is quite at home in the realm of soldier/spy and while his low superhuman/peak human abilities give him an edge, it never seems like overkill.

A case can be argued that Iron Man fits that bill as well because, while his tech gives him a a significant edge and allows him to compete with the likes of Hulk and Thor (and of course, its RDJ), at the end of the day he is still just a man in a suit, and he has to 'plus up' to play in the same arena for an extended period of time (in Avengers this was shown by Thor inadvertently charging him to 400% capacity, and in Avengers 2, this is the Hulk Buster armor). Still as was shown in his own movies, individually he still operates on a more localized scale.

Despite being on the Avengers, Black Widow, Hawkeye and now Falcon are not in Cap's league. Not even close and therefore could not even really be called mid-tier. Skilled, yes, with nice little bags of tricks, but still street levelers. When added to the might of the Avengers they are formidable, but let's be real, they are not taking on Ultron, they are just along for the ride.

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There has not been anything shown in the movies that would harm Thor. Iron Man's suit is clearly meant to be the most technologically advanced and powerful piece of human technology and not only did none of his hits really phase him, it was quite clear that Thor was capable of ripping it apart. Bullets had no affect on Loki, so they would not likely have any affect on Thor even if it was not explicitly shown. Captain America's shield bounced off his head with no affect. The phase two weapons which were designed to actually harm the Asgardians didn't. As for Thor ducking out of the way of the bullets, even Hulk was trying to cover up from those same bullets, just like he has done in every Hulk movie to date. Would it kill him, no but like Fifthchild noted above, it doesn't mean its going to be enjoyable. Stand there and let me pelt you with a bunch of paintballs. And as far as the Hulk trap, there is nothing expressed in there that the trap would have killed him. It was afterall designed by people who made a weapon to harm Asgardians that couldn't even harm Loki's clothing. Even Loki he put him in the trap didn't seem to actually think it worked considering that right after he did it, he bragged to Coulson that their champions were scattered, not that he had just killed Thor, nor did he refute Tony when he mentions having Thor on their team later.

The only times showed any injury at all in Avengers was during his fight with Hulk, where he walked away with a slight bloodied lip (that he smiled about) and when Loki stabbed him with his dagger, a weapon one assumes was designed on Asgard for the expressed purpose of harming Asgardians and beings of a similar nature (otherwise why make them). Then again, Odin's spear didn't leave a scratch on him either so who knows.

In TDW Kurse is the only being that seemed to actually give him problems and was likely capable of beating him as he was clearly Thor's physical superior in that movie (which is in keeping with the comics). Even then, a couple of scratches and another token bloody lip and he was fine after a few minutes. His fight with the Aether-enhanced Maleketh was basically a draw since the only think that was giving him problems was the gravitational anomalies that kept sucking them in the portals.

In A:AoU only Scarlet Witches powers did anything to him. Even that fight at the end with Ultron there was no point where he looked like he was in danger, calmly telling Vision he was running out of things to say and didn't seem really phased after when they were talking about Mjolnir's balance (personally I think that was done to give Thor and Vision more of a bonding moment to try to add something similar to the relationship Tony and Bruce enjoy). It was annoying that they did not show that whole fight considering they allowed both Tony and Steve to contend with him so I was curious how Whedon was going to work with that but it appears that, sadly, he choose not to and simply glossed over it.

Its possible based on what was shown that the Hulk Buster armor might be able to do some harm to him (considering he did knock out the Hulk with it) but even than I doubt it would do much more than give him another bloody lip for his troubles.

So in short, there are no mortal weapons so far that have demonstrated any capability to harm Thor in the MCU.

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Somehow I'm thinking the original All New All Different X-Men handled this concept a lot better. Not only were they all original heroes, but they didn't have to reach back 40 years to steal title/concept for the team.

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Enyalios

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@vicariousfan:

First I didn't forget about Isaiah Bradley. He is the result of one of those retcons and never actually took up the mantle in an official run of the book (coincidently, if they were going to give the mantle of Captain America off to someone so they could have a black Captain America, Isaiah Bradley given a rejuvenated body or Eli/Patriot would have been better in my opinion).

And God of Thunder is the mantle that Thor possesses. If she would have taken on the role of Goddess of Thunder or Protector of Midgard, we would be having a very different conversation. For example, Victor Alverez calls himself Power Man, a name originally made famous by Eric Josten (Goliath/Atlas) and later by Luke Cage. Luke Cage currently goes by his own name now. What is going on right now is the equivalent of Victor deciding to call himself Luke and the real Luke said sure, I'll just call myself Cage. It doesn't make sense.

And yes, you are right, Marvel has tried passing on the name of Thor to others. It didn't work. Dargo appeared as Thor in one story on his own and popped up for Thor Corps. Red Norvell never headlined Thor's book. Eric Masterson was killed off. There is nothing original about this character or the concept. As stated they have replaced Thor before. There is even a what-if story where Jane took Mjolnir, thus making Thor a female. Earth-X had Thor transmuted into a female. Even the costume is a knock off of old King Thor, cut for a female and given Eric Masterson's helmet. And she is an environmentalist type a la Ultimate Thor.

You ask why sales are still pretty high for Thor comics right now? Its because Aaron is a coward and is keeping Thor in the book so hard core Thor fans are still reading it because Thor is still there. If Thor was removed and all you had was female Thor in it, I'm willing to bet that number would fall. If Thor began appearing in another comic, say Journey into Mystery, I'm willing to bet you would really see that number fall. Even people who adamantly defend this whole thing like @ms-lola say that the story is weak and they are holding out hope it gets better because they like and believe in the concept.

There are so many ways that Aaron could have done this without breaking faith with Thor fans. He choose not only to ignore, but antagonize them.

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@vicariousfan:

The evidence would be that each one of these characters ultimately went back to the original. Sales declined and the comics had to reverse themselves.

Also, most of the others you have spoken of were the results of retcons and alternate realities. In the case of Captain America for instance, while for the sake of the continuity there have been others, in the actual comics, Steve, Bucky, John and now Sam has taken the mantle. Only one other has gone by Steve Rogers and that's because when he was originally written, he was supposed to be Steve.

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Have to go with Tom as Loki. He resonates the character and even makes you root for him at times even though you are not supposed. He dominated nearly every seen he was in, even those he shouldn't have. Ian really didn't do that as Magneto. It never seemed like he found his pacing with the character. If this was Gandalf it would have been different, but between these two characters, Loki takes it in my opinion.