entropy_aegis

@zeeguy91: You're the guy advocating for Killer Moth and Firefly and I shouldn't be taken seriously? please.

He was the main villain of a Batman animated movie, an animated show and marketed as one for a video game, remember the time Croc and Moth were main villains of anything? yeah I dont. You have no case, you're just babbling along because you're butt hurt people might associate anything good with Batman, that's where your entire problem starts and ends. I didn't ask for Deathstroke and I have already stated that I see him as a Titans villain but blame Wolfman for modeling him as an anti-Batman and Priest for enforcing it throughout DC and ofcourse Godly Johns for putting him in the movie. They're the Gods of Deathstroke and none of them have a problem. Besides there's no Green Arrow or Titans movie announced yet and frankly Green Arrow's only claim on him are 2 forgettable Judd Winick arcs and a Batman ripoff tv show. But hey Green Arrow can have him, would be fun to see Deathstroke the jobber.

There are dozens of comics published about the Batman universe every month, you're a goddamn fool if you think any director will make a film with Killer Moth as the main villain and use that story as a resource and you're even a bigger fool if you think someone needs to follow all of them to be a fan. I dont need a guy who jumped on board with the New-52 to tell me anything. Tone down with the hostility, even Batman cant possibly inspire this much butthurt in you.

If the source is credible then why is your butt hurting so much? that source said that there will be a Titans film with Deathstroke and named a bunch of other Batman villains for Afflecks movie, take a deep breath and relax, get your butt massaged and then come back.

Finally Mr Butt hurt the Joker made his debut in this universe as a villain in Suicide Squad,3 other Batman villains also made their first ever live action debut in that movie. Once the Batverse stops loaning their characters to others then maybe you'll have a case for your butt hurt.

Nah, I can understand the issues with Deathstroke because he really is either a Titans villain or a solo character. His problem is that he's become very popular while Titans are in a slump which has made it troublesome for WB.

Prometheus is a true Bat villain, the only ones who think he's a Green Arrow villain are fools who rag on Cry for Justice 24/7 and claim it destroyed Green Arrow mythos but also simultaneously use that story to claim Prometheus for their own, amusing it is. He fights the JL because he's an inversion of the BatGod trope, so he necessarily has to thrash the League before facing the real prep God.

I dont think there was ever any need to think otherwise even then (shrugs).

They're not necessarily giving him to Batman, they just want to milk a character enjoying high levels of popularity right and honestly speaking Slade doesn't owe his current mainstream status to Titans. Arkham Origins,SOB, Beware the Batman, Arkham Knight, Arkham City lockdown, Arrow, Young Justice and another bunch of games, he does owe his status to them. Having him show up in Batman will build up his profile even more and then he'll pop up elsewhere in DCU, they wont permanently ground him to Batman, they think he's too profitable for just Batman, like I said it may even speed up the coming of Titans.

@black_wreath: Arrow has referenced everything, that doesnt really mean anything.

They were charismatic because you gave them a chance,for all we know he will be charismatic in Batman. This is an argument for later.

Jessica Jones,Daredevil can get along fine with minimal villains,why does Arrow then need everyone? because Guggenheim is a lazy slob.

@zeeguy91: Why are you telling me all this? Deathstroke is the main villain, Croc and Clayface are NOT. This isn't a hypothetical debate, Deathstroke has been cast and is about to show up, Croc has also been cast but there's no word of him . They're not A-listers in the eyes of the studio execs and they cant carry a tent pole film, that's a given. You can keep using all their mainstream appearances and history but none of this means ANYTHING to a movie. They're not publishing a comic and even in comics Croc and Clayface are the guys who are usually found working for the actual bad guy and what with the bad history of CBMs when dealing with CGI creatures or monsters you can bet executives will be wary of them. They wont care about cartoons and video games and comics period. But even using that criteria Slade still beats those guys, he was the main villain of Son of Batman animated feature, the main villain of the second half of Beware the Batman and was the only playable character in Arkham Origins which marketed him as one of the main villains. He's already a bigger Bat villain than those guys.

Yeah Affleck will be reading Batgirl: Year One in preparation for a Batman movie all right(rolls eyes) I cant even take you seriously right now, stop just stop man. There are about 25-30 stories that these guys probably read(even that's being generous). There's Knightfall, Year One, TDKR, Arkham Asylum, TKJ, a few other Joker stories, some well known runs by influential creators like Miller, O'Neal and Morrison, maybe some recent popular stories like UTRH, some other major stories with the bigger villains and that's it. if you can point me towards some major story for Croc, Moth, Clayface and Firefly etc in that pile then I'll rest my case.

What source? from Reddit? those rumors mean nothing. Deathstroke has been confirmed by Johns himself, that's my source. Still those rumors that you put so much stock in to also said that the Batman film will have Black Mask, Joker, Harley, Deadshot and a bunch of other B-listers. You get the other villains, you get Deathstroke in Titans according to the rumors that you're using yourself so what exactly are you complaining about again?

And I want a Batman movie with either Wrath or Prometheus as main villains, if not them then Hugo Strange with Deadshot/Zeiss/KG Beast, Deathstroke is neither my first or even last choice but guess what I dont make decisions and neither do you, take your Black Mask/Man-Bat plot and pitch it to WB instead of complaining about it to me. What people associate with Batman and the rest of DC is not my concern and it's not the concern of executives, it's only the concern of insecure fanboys. As for being more comicbooky, that's not happening with Batman, they have a successful formula with Nolan and Affleck as director, you'll probably see guys like KG Beast but after Enchantress, her brother and Doomsday they'd be damned fools to go with Clayface or Man-Bat. Snyder may go down that route but Affleck wont and Ayer wont, not after SS.

I personally dont care about a more scary Scarecrow or something like that. I care about story, Freeze's story is about his wife, it's done period, Scarecrow's story is about gassing people and making them relive their nightmares, done, Ivy is about plant supremacy, Penguin about respect. Done and done, if the screenwriters are willing to come up with a new tale,something that is truly different then I'm all for it. But mere aesthetic differences are a no no, at the end of the day these characters aren't as interesting or multidimensional as you'd think. If you've seen Heart of Ice then you dont need to see anything with Freeze ever again. They usually have one basic story, comic fans obsessions with seeing the same stuff over and over again is precisely why this industry has gone creatively downhill. I'd rather they not make a Batman film at all if they plan on making one with "technological" Riddler, as if Schumachers Riddler wasn't a tech savvy genius. Once again if the screenwriters can come up with a radically different story, a proper reinvention then I can get on board but the incentive is low, they are likely to get criticized for changing the characters and it wont take as much effort to go with a different character.

Scarecrow and Hatter are not mobsters, LOL not even close both are closer to mad scientist type.

What Slade does is up to the screenwriter.

Yes they are B-listers, them starring in SS and TEC as background wall paper means squat as far status as primary Bat villain status is concerned. If anything that's a case against them, especially since by your own admission Croc was underutilized in his first ever film appearance, goes to show how much stock they put in him. They are the type of villains that you'll get in ensemble villain pieces where they'll exist to get one shotted while Batman makes his way to the real villain. If Croc hasn't been relevant to Batman comics in ages then he has no business starring as a lead villain, heck he was barely relevant even when he made his debut.

Black Mask I'm not opposed to but he'll make it anyway, if not this movie then certainly the one after that. Croc and Clayface aren't becoming A-listers any time soon, the Bat films will still be similar to the Nolan flicks, in other words talking crocodile men, giant bats and mud guys are still a long way from happening.

Killer Moth and Firefly? BWHAHAHAHAHA, read All-Star Batman #1. that's how the biggest Batman writer in comics treats them and you're expecting movie greatness? LOL. There's no narrative potential there, they're just mooks, fancy costumes dont change that.

Deathstroke is appearing because he is popular right now and WB wants to both milk his popularity and raise his profile even more. When they'll make the eventual Titans film which isn't even on the radar right now, he'll show up there but they cant wait for that film to expose him to mainstream media because like it or not he IS more high profile than they are. If not a Batman movie he'd have shown up in some other DCEU film like Suicide Squad. They're doing Slade a favor by putting him in a Batman movie, any success there will lead to more appearances and potentially even a Titans film. For now however they cant just sit and wait while MCU and Fox keep making movies, they cant just watch Fox milk Deadpool while they're stuck with Titans, a franchise that has long seen it's best days in any media. Deathstroke is a big enough character that he'll survive one movie and then show up elsewhere, they're building him to be bigger, the same cant be said for Two-Face and Scarecrow, those guys are one and done. Your unnecessary concern that if the Batman film is good then people will associate anything good with Batman is just hilariously unfounded, nobody thought DOJ was great(except for die hard Snyder fans).

Wonder where these Titans fans were when Arrow was busy stealing him and Darhk and Blood and H.I.V.E and probably a few others I'm forgetting and ruining almost all of them to boot.

You lost me there, come on, why would you want to see villains who have been done? and Halle Berry...

Most Batman villains are not mobsters and serial killers and the ones that are haven't been relevant in a long time. When was the last time Black Mask and Zsasz were squaring up against Bruce? does anyone remember Stirk? or that fatboy Penguin who has been the joke of Gotham since forever.

Deathstroke is a lot more than a hired gun, this is just ignorance now and whatever mystery you could potentially get with others you can get with him. In fact I'd argue the element of unknown is much higher in a film with Deathstroke as the main villain than with the other mobsters and serial killers. Remember Miranda/Talia? yeah every one saw that coming, everyone will see Jason Todd coming no matter what disguise he chooses.

Deathstroke is the most unpredictable villain in a Batman film since Ra's in Begins and lesser the history he has with Batman the greater the unpredictability. The writers will have to construct a whole new plot around him instead of doing a variation of something someone else did.

High five

Yeah Javi can be awkward but he's consistent and has so far shown an upward trend. Finch in contrast got weaker and weaker, compare issue 1 with 5, Flash blitzing Gotham in particular was a rather crappy drawn blitz and his women still have stupid bodies.

As for writing I dont think there's any competition really,N-wing is blowing B-man out of the water. There's no silly repetitive dialogue(Hello Gotham, please Gotham,good bye Batman,Gotham please,good bye Batman, the artist must really struggle to read the script with a straight face), the characters dont have stupid costumes or names, Dick has more personality than Bruce by spades. I am Gotham would have been better off as an arc in Batman 66.

Second place

Best Batbook and it's not even about Batman.