@zeeguy91 said:@entropy_aegis:Is the TT series so far the most well-known and high profile use of DS in other media? Yup. You bet it is. Let's poll people in their 20s (the intended audience of this movie) whether they remember DS more so from the TT series or from SoB or even the Arkham games. Let's see what the response is. You know, the more you talk and despite your protestations that you're not, the more it becomes apparent that you are a Batfanboy.Actually Copperhead debuted in an issue of Brave and the Bold that co-starred Batman and Wonder Woman. And it was a team-up between the two of them that took him down. Copperhead then went on to have several run ins and encounters with teams and characters all across the DCU, from the JLA to the JLE to Elongated Man to Superboy. He joined the Secret Society of Supervillains in the 70s and was also even a member of the SuicideSquad (something Croc never did until the movie).Then the successor to the Copperhead mantle went on to become a member of the Terror Titans. So Copperhead is as much a Batman villain as he is an "anybody in DC" villain. So, congratulations, you just proved yet again the extent of your ignorance.And again, Renee Montoya as Question is over. If DC were to revive the Question, it likely wouldn't be her in the title position. They'd probably be bringing back Vic Sage.Uh, Cheshire would still probably act the same, but they'd mention her LoA ties. She might even bring along other LoA members, and then the LoA would become fodder for the Titans to fight. Unless you're proclaiming to be psychic, there's no way you could say that this is impossible.How many times has DC actually invested in the Superman property the same way they have with Batman? The Superman comics are actually good right now, but is Scott Snyder (their A-lister) or Tom King (their rising star) or James Tynion (their A-lister's protege) actually writing a Superman comic? Before the New 52 (and indeed after the New 52), there wasn't really a concerted push for Superman creative teams. The Busiek run was a decent run, but it mostly just flew under the radar and didn't garner the attention of Morrison's Batman. Morrison's Action run lasted all of 18 issues (and honestly wasn't even good with him on it) and then the title was caught up in an endless cycle of bland crossovers. The Super office is just not as well managed as the Bat-office because DC doesn't consider Superman or any of their other properties as "important" as Batman. And as long as they play favorites like that, they're not going to have success with anything but Batman. So its essentially a self-fulfilling prophecy.I have no problem with the Kobra Cult fighting Bat-characters. You're misunderstanding what I'm saying. But they should remain fair game for the rest of the DCU. Because in fact, they're probably more well known for their fighting against the JSA and Checkmate. Like Copperhead, the Kobra Cult is more "DCU" than "Batman" at this point. And it should remain that way. I don't mind them fighting Batman, but I also don't want to see them limited to JUST Batman. And let's be honest, previously unrelated characters being absorbed into Batman's world happens a hell of a lot more than characters leaving it.And you know what that means? He's a Robin/Titans villain. That actually tracks with the comics where his rivalry is with Dick primarily. Hell, he targeted Blüdhaven and had Dick train his daughter. However, that still doesn't make him a Batman villain. Dick with the Titans had a separate identity entirely from the Batman world. What part of that do you not get?? You think Dick would have fought Brother Blood or Trigon or Goth or Blackfire or the Wildebeest Society or half the villains the Titans did fight if he had been with Batman? Its like saying that because Wolverine fought Kang while he was fighting alongside the Avengers, that Kang is now an X-Men villain.And DS wanting to replace Batman again doesn't mean he's a Batman villain. Like I said, he fought Robin and the Titans specifically. He's a Titans villain.Uh, actually that's not what people are saying about Cyborg. If you haven't noticed, Cyborg with the JL has been incredibly underwhelming. And his last solo series really wasn't anything to write home about. People want him back with the Titans because when he was with them, he actually had personality. He actually had friends. Has there been anything to replicate the lost Cyborg/Beast Boy friendship that existed in the Wolfman/Perez run in the pages of the New 52 JL? No. And moving off of Cyborg for a second, people are also just pissed that Cy being a founding League member means that the Wolfman/Perez run on NTT, one of the most acclaimed runs in all of DC's history is still out of continuity. The X-Men even aren't what they used to be, but has Marvel written the Claremont/Byrne run out of canon? No.Actually, post-Crisis, Nightwing was a legendary superhero on Krypton whom Superman told Dick about, which then inspired his taking on of the Nightwing identity. And even the pre-Crisis imagining is still more a Superman thing, given that it was Superman under the mantle and still not Batman, which is something Rucka then revisited when he made Powergirl into Nightwing. But for the purposes of what Dick was inspired by when taking on the mantle of Nightwing, the post-Crisis imagining, which has completely non-Batman origins, wins out. However, either one has Dick being inspired by Superman when he chose the Nightwing identity, not Batman.And DC rarely preferences their other properties over Batman. If you can't see that, you're blind. You know what caused the sinking of DC's other franchises? The lack of good writing or creative investment. I wonder why that is. Its been this way for years: Batman gets the big names and the other properties get stuck with scraps. And as for moving talent around, I rarely see that. How many non-Batman projects has Snyder been on? One Superman book. That's it. Besides Batman stuff, what did DC do with Brubaker when they had the chance?Actually, what really notable mainstream (i.e. in-continuity) thing did DC really do with Morrison besides Batman for the years leading up to the New 52. The only thing I can think of was his Vertigo work and 52, the latter of which was like 11 years ago and the former was in the 80s.If you think DC doesn't have a strong preference for grabbing A-list creators for their Batman titles as opposed to their other titles, you're really naïve.And Johns is known for Batman work??? Hahahahah. Johns is probably the only creator at DC who is better known because of anything but Batman. Nobody talks about his Batman. They talk about his GL, JSA, and Action Comics.As of what has sunk the other franchises, yeah it is partly the Silver Age fanboyism. But that is actually driven in part by the lack of creative experimentation and faith in those properties. They don't think Flash or GA or WW can ever go beyond a certain point, so they simply relegate those books to a status quo where they were their most successful and stick some non-exceptional writer on it. If DC had the guts to put as much creative initiative behind properties like Flash as they do behind Batman, then they'd be in a different position. Johns's GL actually serves as an example of how that can work when done well. But unfortunately, it also serves as an example of how, when an A-list writer leaves a property that's not Batman, DC just goes back to putting it on the back-burner once again. They're starting to invest more in other properties with Rebirth, but their follow through is something that will have to be seen in time to come.Once again you have to resort to attacking me, you just cant help it can you? and then you get butt hurt when I call it out. Yes go ahead, poll people on a neutral site about whether they remember Deathstroke from the Arkham games or TT and then make the same poll about SOB. Many people who watched TT didn't even know he was Deathstroke, they just go back and realize he was Deathstroke after being exposed to his more recent appearances, all they remember is a guy named Slade. Besides it still doesn't refute anything I said so try again.Brave and the Bold was a book about Batman and some other guest star, this guy never faced WW again. So that's the first strike against you, him teaming up with other losers in those run of the mill super villain teams doesn't really change anything. Even recently he was tagging alongside Outsider,Signal Man and Blockbuster in John's JSA, all united by one theme "D-list Batman baddies", that's the second strike. The character has been in Batman exclusive media, strike 3. But lets say I agree with you, lets assume he's not a Batman(as if Bat fans are dying for Copperhead) then so what?This guy went from contortionist thief to snake guy(cause deal with the devil) to getting killed and replaced by another contortionist thief to getting gender bent to becoming a snake man again to co existing side by side with his gender bent version and you're actually wondering why Ayer didn't use him? LOL. There is 0 consistency to Copperhead.So what if it's over? bring me the biggest development with Question in the last 15 years, just do it or shut up.I'm using history, I literally gave you Merlyn as an example and who exactly will she bring? the sole story that tied her with the League (Red Hood) also ended with her leaving. Maybe you should actually read for once. Cheshire became a member because she became a part of Batman's world, if she leaves she will lose association. She wont be dragging Ra's with her to Titans if that's what you're day dreaming about. Or maybe Snyder and Tynion are just incapable of working on other properties, has that thought ever occurred to you? Claremont was a big time creator but he's known almost exclusively for X-Men, Dixon was big in the 90's and his resume is almost entirely Bat related, some creators just cant work everywhere. Tynion in particular is a flop creator every time he's removed from Snyder's shadow at DC. King though has worked on Omega Men and he's working on Babylon, and Orlando got Supergirl and will get JLA. Tomasi and Gleason were moved to Superman so plz just stop. As for Berganza, not my fault or that of Bat fanboys, if he's got something on his boss then he'll harm the company no matter where he is.Such as? and I honestly dont care about Kobra enough anyway, the DCU can have him for all I care but what I do know is that character lost any semblance of direction once he stopped fighting the Outsiders. He just kept strutting around until Johns jobbed him off. Then he fell to the way side again, he may still be on the way side for all I know.Ah comic history, lets also put that on the poll and see if anyone cares. Besides none of those other characters went on to become Nigthwing foes. Once DC decided to orbit him around N-wing and GA it was just a matter of time before he threw down with Batman. I'm just surprised it took this long, it's pretty simple, cant you see the simplicity of the process? once he became too popular for the Titans he started fighting Batlite and now that he has became too popular for the Batlite he's fighting Batman. At the core it's the degradation of the Titans franchise that is to blame.It makes him an anti-Batman, pretty sure that's what I was saying.No people just dont want Cyborg on JL period. They think he's just good enough to be a Titans supporting character, not JL or solo material. The character never had a solo series as a member of the Titans, his history may have made him a better character but it didn't make him a high profile character. Ergo Titans flunked at giving it's characters anything, remember the Donna Troy series? or the Arsenal ongoing? remember Cassie Sandsmarks' book? Deathstroke is the ONLY character to get an ongoing from the Titans and that book proceeded to separate him from the Titans and move him in to the larger DCU. I'm sure you'll bring up Conner and Bart but those characters had ongoings before they joined TT and they got them on the strength of the Superman and Flash brands.Way to dodge the point, the original Nightwing was Superman inspired by Batman, period, full stop, that's the core of the concept,the actual intent, the absolute truth. Dick was then inspired by Superman and the rest is history. But I notice you trying to grasp at straws by separating continuity, ok I'll humor you, yeah the Dixon revision had nothing to do with Batman but it revised Superman's role as well. Dick wasn't inspired by Supes, just some myth Supes told him. Rucka later made Chris Kent Nightwing and according to Rucka Nightwing was giant Bat like God who's picture I just posted, still the fricking same thing. The current version of Dick was inspired by the Bat creature(Robin War). So with the exception of a single sentence from Dixon the Nightwing identity still has links to Batman as far as Dick is concerned. The latest twist is that Dick may have subconsciously been influenced by owls. So Dick has either been influenced by a Batman inspired Superman(Judas Contract) or a Batgod of Krypton(current).Maybe you shouldn't wonder too much, the lack of creative investment is due to creators not being allowed to work with what they want to work with. Snyder couldn't do more Superman because he was being attacked for "too much Lois and too much Pre-Crisis Superman" by the Nuperman supporters. It's clear he had no desire to write SM/WW and the other Nuperman related stuff. That was a largely a problem with Nuperman, Morrison and Pak were the only ones interested in him. The rest of the creators then had to be shepherded by the editorial. Wally West lovers couldn't write him for years because Borey Allen was priority, Stewart and Rayner writers have been sidelined for not prostrating before Hal Jordan. The management and a certain creator's fanboyism is the root of this problem, people like Steve Orlando and Tynion are all noted for being readers throughout the 90's. They have no interest in the characters Johns and Didio have wanted to push, THAT is the root of the problem, THAT is why there is lack of creative investment. In these circumstances creators will just go with the franchise that actually allows them to write character's they're interested in. What DC simply needs to do is get rid of Johns and Didio, then watch the creative investment return, as long as the new management is more youthful.The A-listers want to work with Batman for the reasons I provided, especially if they're more fresh faced. Hickman for instance is more interested in LOSH. The younger faces are not interested in the Silver Age and it's relics.Johns these days has the tagline of " New York times best selling author of Batman Earth One" attached to his name every time he is introduced. Guess you haven't noticed have you? When was Barry Allen ever more successful than Wally? certainly not before DC wrecked Wally in to pieces.Wally still has the 2 best runs on Flash ever written.Wally still has the 2 most well regarded cartoon series under his belt.Wally still has Morrison's JLA and Wolfman's TitansBarry has a successful tv that launched 2 years ago and one animated movie with him taking center stage about 4 years ago.Everything Barry has is recent, every thing Barry that's worth a damn was given to him by sacrificing Wally.Is this Batman's fault? DC RUINED a property because some people needed to stroke their fanboysism. Batman is successful by standing on his own feet, what he gets is what he deserves.