Emerald_General_Jai

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Heirachy of Power

So if there's one thing that i feel like DC has to do a better job of...it's the heirachy of power in their universe. I'm sry, but once u leave the Presence...you simply have no idea where everyone falls without much question. I mean it's implied, really it is. But i feel like DC needs to get off their butt an accomplish what Marvel has done such a great job of making very very sure of. Who outranks whom. Sure beings like Superman and the like can raise up and beat other's through plot device, perseverance, or PIS(Mostly their unstoppable powers of PIS), or some other interesting way. Now i'm not arguing power levels, i don't see many people who are gunna make a constant case for Black Canary against Supes, though people could put her up against Kon if they wanted too. Now I know we have this here on the site,  http://www.comicvine.com/dc-power-rankings/12-42222/, but I can't believe we don't have a better understanding of it in DC. Now Marvel has done a great job, what with their Odin, Zeus, Celestials, Abstracts, Galactus n ect ect. I'd love to see the same from DC. It's not all that hard.  Categories are easy to come up with for the most part. DC would just have to stick to them, and (as Marvel's had to do, though i'll admit they mess it up sometimes) It'd be nice if there was a more coherant idea of where people ranked for DC. Examples are easy to come by, take GL's for instance. Not many people are gunna argue that Ion is a High Level Herald, with Teambuster potential. Yet you can't get people who agree on weather or not Guardians are even Top tier Heralds, let alone the Mid to High level Skyfathers others believe. It's kinda pathetic. Especially since DC could use their already established teams to work with the lower ranks rather quickly.  
 

Heri to the Thrown 
Heri to the Thrown 
Street Fighters: Individuals who are not powered, they rely solely on their own skills with some help from technology. The greatest ability they posses is prep, knowledge which can allow them to defeat foes that out-class them greatly.  Example; Bat Family 
Low-level: Skills allow them to fight crime, and make them a threat. Mild tech available yet normally work with a partner of some sort. Examples; Damien Wayne (Robin),  
Mid-Level: More expienced and skilled than Low-level fighters, also have better tech and are over-all more effective. Better one are a threat even to Mid-Level Meta's. Examples; Mia Darden (Speedy), Tim Drake (Red Robin), Anarchy, Lynx, Stephanie Brown (Batgirl) 
Top Tier: Master's of their chosen skill. Have some of the best Tech around, and normally are great strategist and well versed in Prep. If prepared for a confrontation can potentially beat anyone, if they have knowledge of their weakness. Examples; Bruce Wayne, Dick Grayson (Current Batman), Oliver Queen (Green Arrow), Ra's Al Ghoul, Ted Grant (Wildcat), Jason Todd (Red Hood), Talia Ghoul, Thomas Elliot (Hush),Selina Kyle (Catwoman), Lex Luthor 
 
 King of the Meta-Brawls
King of the Meta-Brawls
Metas
: Possesing a power of some kind, or something that makes them superhuman. They are capable of amazing feats, and threats to most other clases on their power alone.  
Low-Level: Possessing just one type of power, such as telekinesis. Though it doesn't have to be something truly amazing, they can also have access to tech that makes them superhuman. Based on circumstances can even lose to Mid-level or Low-Level Street fighters, being slightly higher than Mid Street Fighters, and a lil below or equal to Top Tier. Examples; Waylon Jones (Killer Croc), Poison Ivy, Cyborg, Beast Boy, Wonder Twins, Risk, Slade Wilson, Ravager, Kid Eternity  
Mid-Level: Having multiple powers, or a broader power-set, such as having Telekinesis and Telepathy or a higher level of Telekinesis. They may also have access to powerful artifacts in addition to their own abilities. Their more diverse power sets make them bigger threats. Examples; Terra, Hot Spot, Kid Devil, Hawkman, Blue Devil, Cyclone, Citizen Steel 
Prime Meta: Having multiple powers, they are almost planetary threats, though they either lack the power, or necessary skill to do so. Most could destroy a city if they cut loose. Examples;  Cassie Sandsmark (Wonder Girl), Grant Emrson (Damage), Bart Allen (Kid Flash), Cosmic Boy, Lightning Lad, Virgil Hawkins (Static), Courtney Whitmore (Stargirl), Jay Garrick  (Flash I), Red Tornado (normal)
 
Emotional Lords: Most Diverse Heralds 
Emotional Lords: Most Diverse Heralds 
Herald
: A planetary threat. They can change the world with some effort, and in some case many. Most have multiple powers, though some are only extremely versed in one. They are forces to be reckoned with being about half-way up the power scale. They are the more poweful heroes and villians.  
Low-Level: Quite powerful, they can challenge any of the Metas or Street Levelers on power alone, though sometimes a lack of skill or knowledge can loose them the fight.  This level normally has multiple powers at high enough levels to pose a serious threat. They aren't that much more powerful than a Prime Meta, just far more diverse. Some have powers that rival top Heralds, but it being their only power lowers their overall ranking.  Example; Wally West (Flash III), Barry Allen (Flash II) Kon-El (Superboy),   Obsidian, Jade, Professor Zoom, Doctor Polaris, Hercules, Carol Fenris (Star Sapphire)
Mid-Level: Stronger, or more skilled then Low-Level Heralds, they have a good chance of beating a High Herald if they don't hold back, yet can loose to Low-levels or even Metas and Top Tiers well preped enough. Examples; Wonder Woman, Firestorm, Zatanna,  Earth Born Angel, Kalibak, Lightray, Mantis, Brimstone, Rookie Lanterns and most un-named Lanterns (all 7 corps), random Kryptonians, Martians, 
High Heralds: They are definitely planetary threats, capable of facing colossul foes, most of them hold the potential for more power. In most confrontations with people weaker than them, they are walking away the Victor. Examples; Kal-El (Superman), Billy Batson (Captain Marvel), Black Adam, FreDdy Freeman (Shazam),  Veteran Lanterns (Jordan, Rayner, Gardner, Stewart, Kilowog, ect) Sinestro, Brainiac, General Zod, Martian Manhunter, Atrocitus, Larfleez, Orion, Apollo, Captain Atom 
 
Teambusters: These are individuals capable of taking teams of Heralds on at a single time. At their worst showings they are simply High Heralds, at their best they tear through them. They are capable of challenging Skyfathers, even defeating them under certain situations. Their power-levels are subject to the whims of the writers. Examples; Sodam Yat (Ion), Sun-Dipped Superman, Doomsday, Mongul I, Mongul II with Rings, Despero, The Doctor, Death Gods, Ominar Synn, Takion, Fernus, Swamp Thing, The Firestorm Eelemental (an his counterparts), Doctor Fate, Helspont,  Hourman III, Darkseid (Normal and Weak Showings) 
 
Skyfather Power unleashed 
Skyfather Power unleashed 

 Pantheon of Nature
 Pantheon of Nature
Skyfathers
: Beings of Immense cosmic power. In many cases they are responsibly for empowering Heralds, or are responsible for controlling entire corners of power in the DCU. Such as Magic, Elements, the Emotional Spectrum, or the 4th/5th World.  
Gods: While Demi-Gods, or lesser Gods are limited and normally rank among Heralds and Teambusters, these are their much more powerful bretheren. They have a multitude of abilties and are immensely powerful. Examples; Zamarons, The Controllers
Pantheon Lords: The more powerful members of their respective groups of Gods. They have access to much greater abilities and powers. Can overcome Skyfathers if work together, normally a small magnitude weaker. Examples; Guardians of the Universe,Dr. Fate (fully powered), Zeus, Ares, Poseidon, Aphrodite, 
Skyfathers: Rulers of their respective sphere's of influence, or most powerful and influential member. They have the greatest share of abilities and are truly something to be wary of. Examples;  Ganthet, Athena,  Darkseid (fully powered), Lord's of Hell (Neron, Satanus, Lady Blaze) outside their realms,  Highfather Izaya, Lord Marvel, Shazam the Wizard,  Archangels (Uriel/ Raphael/  Sarauquel / Raguel/ ect)    
 
Elder Gods: They predate the Pantheons currently in power. They are a magnitude above them, thow their downfalls/defeat/banishment/abdication led to the current rule of Gods. Examples;   Old Gods, A rzaz (heroic Old God), Balduur (heroic Old God whose atoms formed New Genesis), Yuga Khan, The Dreggs (the undead), Lokee (god of evil), Nameless One (evil Old God), Wotan (ruler of the Old Gods), S'ivaa the Destroyer and Dark Elements, Maggedon, Clockwerx, King of Tears (Outside it's realm)  
 
(From here on I'll be relying on the info already available on Comicvine, but hopefully my point is made. This didn't take much work to do, or find. Maybe an hr...hr n a half Tops. So why can't DC do the same...pass it around the office,  heck even make a comic out of it for fans to purchase...and stick to it....)

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Emerald_General_Jai

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Anyone have any helpful input they wanna either add here, or to the paige Comicvine has for this very topic? King, Morpheus, Gerald, Vance, Static? Anybody else?

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geraldthesloth

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Edited By geraldthesloth

I just saw this, Good Job..but why is Mantis ranked so low when he can suck a power ring dry?

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Emerald_General_Jai

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I don't know much about him, but he was listed on the paige they had up already, so i tried to guage him. That's why i was hoping if i posted this i'd get sum responses. Since it'd help with the Battle Boards a bit methinks. 

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CortSether

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Edited By CortSether

Good list. When I think of power scales and high-tier beings, I definitely think of Marvel.
 
DC has a great street level line-up but I never got into their higher power characters as things just got flustered.

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TheGuy

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Edited By TheGuy

Larfleeze commands the ENTIRETY of the Orange Spectrum, that puts him near original Ion levels at least.  
Full power Fate is Nabu, and Nabu is said to be the mightiest Lord of Order, stronger than Shazam.  
 
http://www.comicvine.com/dc-power-rankings/12-42222/

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King_Saturn

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Edited By King_Saturn  Online
not bad... not bad at all
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Emerald_General_Jai

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@TheGuy said:
" Larfleeze commands the ENTIRETY of the Orange Spectrum, that puts him near original Ion levels at least.  
Full power Fate is Nabu, and Nabu is said to be the mightiest Lord of Order, stronger than Shazam.  
 
http://www.comicvine.com/dc-power-rankings/12-42222/ "
I think what's meant by Full Power Fate is someone in control, a master of the Mantel if u will. Remember, we just got a new Fate a few years ago, i wouldn't put him on the same level of Mastery as the original was b4 he passed, as for Nabu. The actual rankings have him quite a few levels higher than what i've set up as Skyfather level.  
@King Saturn said:
" not bad... not bad at all "
Thanks man. 
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Edited By Strife

Anyways I wish I had a good mindset to help you with this but I only know so much about DC powerhouses..but I can help you with the Herald level and down if you'd like dude.
 
Edit* This is also Gerald by the way :P

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Emerald_General_Jai

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@Strife said:

" Anyways I wish I had a good mindset to help you with this but I only know so much about DC powerhouses..but I can help you with the Herald level and down if you'd like dude.  Edit* This is also Gerald by the way :P "

Any help that can be offered is appreciated. I figured we might be able to, with the abundance of Spite threads we've seen lately. Use the Marvel rating system, and have a comparable DC one for the Battle Boards that can help us to come up with fights, or maybe we can start doin tournaments. I dunno. We'll see where it goes from here. 
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GamorasBigDaddy

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Edited By GamorasBigDaddy
@TheGuy said:
"Larfleeze commands the ENTIRETY of the Orange Spectrum, that puts him near original Ion levels at least.  
Full power Fate is Nabu, and Nabu is said to be the mightiest Lord of Order, stronger than Shazam.  
 
http://www.comicvine.com/dc-power-rankings/12-42222/ "

Nothing about Larfleeze AT ALL shows him anywhere close to original Ion levels!!! 
 
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the creator

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Edited By the creator
@Emerald_General_Jai:
If I get the powergrids finished, I would be more than happy to give you hand.
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glforthewin

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Edited By glforthewin
@Emerald_General_Jai: awesome work man. i think you mentioned skyfathers twice tho
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Emerald_General_Jai

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@the creator said:
" @Emerald_General_Jai: If I get the powergrids finished, I would be more than happy to give you hand. "
That's b great 
@glforthewin said:
" @Emerald_General_Jai: awesome work man. i think you mentioned skyfathers twice tho "
Thanks. Yeah, as the both a section of power, and the highest rank in said section. Couldn't think of another name to give them..
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"Colossus"

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Edited By "Colossus"

skyfathers are pantheon lords.......
 
and after the elder god category you should add     atum the god eater=Tyrant
then galactus at the very top

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 WHO NEEDS TO BE RANKED WAY LOWER
 
IMO Billy Batson should never be in the same category as Superman he has no real feats to match Superman's durability, strength or power.
Lanterns are just not durable and are way too human, as great as the tricks with their ring can be they just can not fit into that Superman level 
Darkseid can barely get his nose ahead of Superman 
  
Kalibak another failure that would have Kirby turning in his grave

Guardians, no feats and prostituting yourself to Darkseid means you get no respect

Doctor Fate , current, has not been powerful in a long time 
 
 
WHO NEEDS TO BE RANKED WAY HIGHER
 
 Wonder Woman is way stronger, more powerful than a rookie Lantern. She can literally lasso the Planet and helped Superman drag it, also beat down many people you rank as   HighHerald/TeamBusters
  
 Brainiac depends which version and there are many   Brainiacs who are team busters or hit skyfather levels
 
Karate Kid...don't even see him mentioned
 
Wally West and Barry Allen, Speed may be their only power but more often than not its all they need. They are literally hundreds of time faster than anyone out there. I think Flash has a good chance to take out a GL, maybe even take out Superman before he knows what happened.
 
Dr Fate (Classic Levels)

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Emerald_General_Jai

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@"Colossus" said:
" skyfathers are pantheon lords.......  and after the elder god category you should add     atum the god eater=Tyrant then galactus at the very top "
By Pantheon Lords i mean beings like Poseidon and Hades, leaders or Lord's among the gods, while not Skyfather's themselves. Other examples in DC become Ares and Aphrodite to Athena's new position as Skyfather, or Takion to Highfather, and the other Guardians to Ganthet.  An Atum is from Marvel my man. 
 
@OhTru said:
"  
 WHO NEEDS TO BE RANKED WAY LOWER
 
IMO Billy Batson should never be in the same category as Superman he has no real feats to match Superman's durability, strength or power.
Lanterns are just not durable and are way too human, as great as the tricks with their ring can be they just can not fit into that Superman level 
Darkseid can barely get his nose ahead of Superman 
  
Kalibak another failure that would have Kirby turning in his grave

Guardians, no feats and prostituting yourself to Darkseid means you get no respect

Doctor Fate , current, has not been powerful in a long time 
 
 
WHO NEEDS TO BE RANKED WAY HIGHER
 
 Wonder Woman is way stronger, more powerful than a rookie Lantern. She can literally lasso the Planet and helped Superman drag it, also beat down many people you rank as   HighHerald/TeamBusters
  
 Brainiac depends which version and there are many   Brainiacs who are team busters or hit skyfather levels
 
Karate Kid...don't even see him mentioned
 
Wally West and Barry Allen, Speed may be their only power but more often than not its all they need. They are literally hundreds of time faster than anyone out there. I think Flash has a good chance to take out a GL, maybe even take out Superman before he knows what happened.
 
Dr Fate (Classic Levels) "
Cap Marvel: Is an accepted peer of Kal's. Like it or not, feats or not. In many cases he's said to be stronger. An the range of powers he brings means he makes it to the top tear. At worst his lack of a long range ability (calling Lightning on yourself isn't always the best of ideas...) means he might make Mid-Herald. 
 
Lanterns: The ring is indeed one of the most powerful weapons in the Universe and can make those simple humans durable enough to face a Kryptonian-level threat. It grants them EP and a wide variety of options, as well as allowing them to up their own strength to levels where they can participate in these fights. I mean when Kyle was a rookie he was able to stand with Superman to take a stand against Mongul (the real one). Make a more compelling case.  
 
Darkseid: That's why there's a thing for current (post-FC con) Avatar Darkseid, which did get weaker Pre-crisis. An the true God Darkseid, that was show-cased during the FC event and took no prisoners.  
 
Kalibak: Kalibak has comparable strength and durability to Kal and Orion.  His Tech makes him even more formidable. With his power rod, he has access to pretty good EP as well. But his strength and durability is herald level.  
 
Guardians: The old Guardians didn't do much yes. But the new ones have only had time for one feat, and their handling of the AM (Who at worst is Big G level) stands quite well on it's own.  
 
Dr. Fate: That's why i put 2 for him. When he has mastery of his powers, he can hang with anyone. Like the time he merged his power to Darkseid, Orion, Highfather and...Phantom Stranger i think it was. The old one was just about Team-buster when on his own, though when Nabu controlled him is when i ranked him higher. I thought i had ranked a third one for the current, my mistake.  
 
Wonder Women: Based on her powers though. An WW isn't as strong, nor as durable as the High heralds. An her lack of other offensive powers...i mean she has the basics; flight, speed, strength, flight. But not on the same level, she's a notch below them. It's her fighting skills and weapons that put her higher. I'd be willing to make a place-ment for a Wonder Woman with full Gear.  
 
Brainiac: An there an be other positions made for them, but most often, he's portrayed as a robot capable of going toe-to-toe with Kal-El, and having amazing powers of Technopathy. Not to mention his brilliance. That's about where his average is, and with the recent Geoffcon, that's where the "true" Brainiac goes.  
 
Karate Kid: B/c he's not one of the people i mentioned. This is a tentative list to get people talking, where do you think he should be, give reason to support it. That's the kind of conversation/debate i was hoping to foster.  
 
Dr. Fate: Accoriding to the brackets, Nabu himself goes a few levels higher. I don't think Dr. Fate, b/c even when Nabu guides him he's limited, is nearly as powerful as Nabu unleashed.  An the strongest feat i was able to find, dealt with him walking among Skyfather's like he belonged. 
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slap_nuts

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Edited By slap_nuts

Can anybody help me in understanding Lord Marvel I fell out of reading comics for about 4 yrs. and have found myself completly backwards in trying to catch up. 
I cant find any info on him evan on Captin Marvels page.