Responses:

Therefore Gon's Jajanken's max out at city block +

considering that he is several fold more destructive near the ending of the chimera arc.

Conclusion: Gon and Killua are still massively stronger than the ninja duo.

I'm not where you are getting city block from? That doesn't seem to be the size of a city block, and just being the size of a city block doesnt really mean you can destroy them.

I'm really not sure how impressive that is.

The Katon I have shown, is about 40 cubic meters of actual rock, to vaporize rock requires over 10,000 joules per cc, destroying that much rock on it's own is about 400,000,000,000 Joules, or City block level.

And Land of Waves Naruto was punching harder than that attack.

So I am not really sure it would be better.

I have also shown you the crazy shit that Naruto and Sasuke have tanked, My durability feats are at least on par with yours, especially considering the giant rasegnan and chidori clashes, yet they can also hurt each other with their punches, so their punches are not insanely weak when compared to their jutsus.

DURABILITY AND PHSYICALS

My bad, I wasn't clear enough.

by complicated equations I mean they're too complicated to use for calls regarding manga, because the illustrator doesn't draw these accurately terms of how tic the depictions are. He doesn't draw his panels in accordance with the all the laws and equations of Mechanics.

height of projectile = u^2sin^2a/2g

u= initial velocity.

a = launch angle

g = acceleration due to gravity

What is the probability Togashi drew the punching feat in accordance and with this equation in mind?

I'm not saying the calc is wrong or anything tho, and since I did change my main feat so it is irrelevant.

I mean, that is how we judge feats, projectile motion is simple stuff really, that is like saying that people didn't keep in mind the formula for gravitational binding energy ( which is even more complicated ), which they likely dont, but we still USE GBE to find out how much it would take to bust a planet.

It isn't that the authors had the formula in mind, it is that the authors made the feat, and we use the formula, to know how much energy or power the feat would take.

These equations are just representations of reality, and they really arent that complicated to begin with, it's just angles and speeds, its simple motion calculations, how long the equation is doesnt determine how complicated the physics are.

Without some method of quantifying the feats, we would have to compare them completely subjectively, someone who destroys a 100m of straw could be seen as stronger than someone who destroyed 40 meters of stone, because it is bigger.

Basically, I did not do the calc to prove the feat is weak per se, I did the calc because without that calc, or something else, we have no way to compare the feat objectively, Like I said, you can have a character show MUCH better feats, like busting a planet, that would be above your feat obviously, but why is it obvious?? Because we know busting a planet takes more power than throwing someone across a large area, but you can only say that if you know how much energy it takes to perform the feat, in some way, be it a calc or some other method. You need some objective way to compare it, Other wise, me saying that the feats shown in Naruto are just as good, cannot be denied objectively.

No, I think someone is weaker if their serious feat pales in comparison to another's casual feat.

Prove to me that Naruto and Sasuke's other feats are not just as impressive, show me why they pale in comparison? Sending people away is not the only way to show strength, Naruto has stopped snakes weighing 100s of tons, he has punched with force above even powerful rock breaking jutsu, He is on par with character that have taken hits able to completely pulverize meters of rocks, and everything else I have shown. Without any quantification, I dont know how you can say the feat is better.

But I do accept what you're posing, different author's have different drawing/art and depiction styles, and my argument is fallacious because it assumes Togashi(hxh writer) = Kishimoto.

Well I feel like I wasted the last 5 minutes, But it's ok, I wanted to at least get my explanation out there.

A)Not to same the degree as in a cramped room, in a cramped room you may have to accelerate/ decelerate hundreds of times if your travelling at sonic speeds, where as in open space depending on the obstacles around you may have to accelerate only once or, at max a dozen times, so moving sonic in a cramped space is much much harder.

Well like I said, these character show they can accelerate almost instantly, so it doesnt really matter to much. And I think the fact that there are things that make it much harder outside mitigate any thing coming from the fact it was inside. I think they are both impressive, and both in base, though Naruto's was a bit earlier.

I went and checked it out, it turns out you're right, my bad, but the feat is still low supersonic or so.

I mean, I guess I would have to see the calc, not sure the exact timeframe that you would need to make traveling that short of a distance supersonic, but then Naruto's feat should be as well, as it is harder to go FTE over a large distance, and they do it constantly.

No what I meant was, do you know where Haku was standing?, is this actually a FTE feat? since she wasn't in their field of vision for the most part.

Even if she was behind them she would have to step in front of them at some point and they did not see here, but here are the full scans:

Gallery

Naruto's feat is much better though, longer distance, more actions, but her's was still impressive, clowning them and taking their swords, from a decent distance.

Well, York New city arc Killua was low supersonic as we agreed.

I have arguments similar to yours.

Greed island Gon/Killua went through hellish training and would blitz their former selves who are low supersonic.

Chimera arc Gon and Killua became massively stronger, where Killua casually blitz - kills a creature that was outspeeding him, already mid - high supersonic, they also go through training far worse that their Greed Island training.

Then there is Godspeed and whirlwind, and a boost for Gon's Nen.

Giving us very high supersonic and mid supersonic.

Yes, they both got stronger by a large amount, That is why I tried not to mention this as much.

What I tried to focus on is that they also got stronger, but, they also have the better speed feats, Most of your's I actually havent seen what makes them supersonic, and most of the feats you are saying are supersonic ( Like Blitzing and FTE stuff) My characters did the same, yet even earlier if not better.

And when it comes to actual feats, while some are shaky like Temari reacting to sound, Sasuke in the FoD was able to react to sound, and he should be even faster now, even in base, because he was able to keep up with Gaara's sand, which can react to explosions, and to thousands of needles which would be moving 100s of meter per second, enough for the sand to get all over their body. That makes Base Naruto and Sasuke more than supersonic, and they would blitz their bases in their 2nd forms, and they get even faster in their last forms, In his second form, which Sasuke kept up with, being only in base with 3 tomoe, Naruto was able to burn things with his speed, that is a feat that would be multiple times faster than anything you have shown, and is a high supersonic feat.

They would be much closer to hypersonic than Gon and Killua, from what you have shown. Maybe even hypersonic depending on where you draw the line. But they would definitely have a speed edge.

And your main showings of speed where FTE Movement, which my characters have shown better feats with, I have shown Haku already, Naruto's speed feat was actually calculated as hypersonic.

In the middle panels on the second page, we can see that they don't even see Naruto until he speaks.

They also do not notice the log until after it has hit the floor.

Seems about the right level of non-reaction for this.

Which means I can use a timeframe of 0.0082 seconds for everything that happens in that blitz.

First I need to find the distance.

Which we will do using the first scan.

I'm going to guess that Inari is 1m tall even though I'm pretty sure that's lower than my height at that age.

Inari is 42px tall

bridge width is 221 px (5.2619 m)

random thug is 121.34px (1.7m)

panel height is 366px

2*tan(121.84/(366/tan((70/2 deg))) 27.2054007 deg

or around 3.58 meters

now the bridge on the bottom is 40.46 px

2*tan(40.46/(366/tan((70/2 deg))) 8.88776968 deg

or around 33.853 meters till the end of the bridge

which makes sense considering that the bridge perspective gets screwed as you go into the bottom so scalling from inari is kinda nonsensical

33.853-3.58=30.273 m

Now that I have that I can simply use the equation of D/T = S

30.273/0.0082 = 3691.82927 m/s

or

Nardo blitz thugs=10.8490678 mach

The calc uses a bit of pixel scaling, but it is pretty clear and you don't need it to see how far it is.

But that is just extra, It is still clearly impressive to have a feat like that back in the land of waves arc, and shows they have the better speed from what was shown.

-Superior speed, there is no doubt in my mind that a combination of whirlwind and godspeed, Killua is faster than CS1 Sasuke, not to mention Nen techniques like Ryu and Ko can increase their over all speed a notch or so in certain situations.

Techniques are nice and all, But Sasuke would literally blitz his old self, and is above supersonic in base keeping up with sands that could react to explosions, with 2 Tomoe, With 3 Tomoe he was fighting someone who could set things on fire with speed, which is a high level supersonic feat.

Basically they have the more concrete feats, and their FTE feats are actually better as well.

So, especially once Naruto pulls out his best, they are actually the ones that are faster, a significant edge.

-Better chemistry: This completely opinion based, but I feel like Naruto and Sasuke reached a peaking point in their conflict, they also had their intense desire to be superior to each other and outdo each other.

Gon and Killua were together a lot more, But Naruto and Sasuke still have a bond, they can talk through fights, and they were able to understand complex plans from each other without even saying a word, in an instant.

If I take a scenario, I can imagine Gon and Killua in a corporation and fairly unified style of fighting, whereas Naruto and Sasuke each be doing their own thing and it is likely, with their versatility, that they will get in each other's way, or at the very least they will most definitely not let the themselves or each other use their power to the best.

This is not within their verse though, it's not like they will turn around and try to kill each other, They should be able to work together as well as they would in good circumstance, since they are in a mindset of winning the battle.

I don't see why they would get in each others way and their powers actually work quite well together, without taking anything away from each other.

It is not like it is some complex plan they need to do, Sasuke can stay back, and Naruto can spam clones. Using their overwhelming DC and Speed, they take down their opponents.

-Superior strength: Like I said, they're on city block + level at full power, I don't believe the two, especially Sasuke can go on tanking strikes from Gon.

I have shown some quite good strength my self, Naruto being able to stop a 100s of tons sized snake, Lee moving with weights, etc.

Or this:

Which Chouji smashed into tiny pieces. CS1 Jirobo could even easily stop attacks like that.

Naruto and Sasuke should be comparable, at least in striking power and durability.

In fact Jirobo was doing shit like this:

Gallery

Which while Naruto and Sasuke would not be able to replicate in base or Cs1/Kn0, Naruto in Kn1 should be on this level.

When it comes to striking strength, I have shown that they are able to hurt each other with strikes, their strikes are able to overcome each others durability, the same durability that allowed them to tank the combined force a city block level attack, or some of the other stuff I will show below. Even back in the LoW arc, Naruto's strikes were shown to be stronger than that early Katon, their striking power is comparable to their Jutsu.

And As for how durable they are and how powerful their jutsu are, I will go over that some more now and in the next quote reply.

Even weaker ninja are able to take hits like these:

Gallery

In weaker forms they take hits like this:

Gallery

Naruto is able to tank a Katon MUCH stronger than the one which is already Building-City Block level

He literally barks it away:

The same attack which when MUCH weaker left giant craters in rock.

And they have tanks each others other jutsus as well, including the shockwaves of the Chidori/Rasengan Clash.

And they can overcome these levels of durability with their striking strength.

Not only should they have comparable strength to Gon and Killua, they should be able to tank attacks from them quite well. Even though they dont have to due to clones and substitution jutsu.

And to be honest, This:

Doesnt look Cityblock+ to me.

Though it is hard to say. I would say it is not above everything I have shown, and in fact lets talk about that now.

-Superior durability, Rasengans and Chidoris will not scratch Gon and Killua in Ken, and Ko is just spite.

Sasuke in BASE is able to do stuff like this:

Weaker chidori are able to completely carve giant holes into rocks with one attack, able to blow out stone without even touching it.

A much weaker base Sasuke could do this:

In one shot.

Sasuke's weakest Katon's destroyed so much rock, that if you measure how much it takes to vaporize that much rock, you would get City Block+ , as shown before, and that was BELL TEST Sasuke.

Naruto and Sasuke's clash in BASE was insanely impressive and at least city block level, and you really haven't expanded much on the durability they have, and it is getting late to do so.

Their final clash caused the entire VoE and the water ( Keep in mind that water weighs almost a TON per each meter ) and even clouds ( which while floating also weigh massive amounts and take insane energy to move ) in it to move, and as I have shown the Valley of the end is massive. The direct hit of that attack would be even stronger.

Even Jounin, who are around sound 4 level, were able to perform like Town level feats in small groups, just another thing showing the potential power of these attacks.

-Things like lightning bolt, which moves at the speed of lightning and can paralyse the victim temporarily will be a big problem for Naruto and Sasuke, in fact this alone is enough to defeat them in many scenarios.

How do you know it moves that fast? or that they can aim it without Sasuke easily seeing whats up and dodging it?

If you want to bring lightning up, Kakashi was SHOWN cutting lightning in the anime, so Naruto and Sasuke both get Mach 300+ Speed.

-Stamina, one more point I just noticed, Gon and Killua ran for 80 - 100 km without breaking a sweat, later on as they're physical stats increased many many fold.

Is that really that impressive? Someone like Kakashi who is has way less stamina than these too, was able to fight for 24 hours, and an entire war.

Heck, Naruto and Sasuke both fought the whole war too.

And Naruto can draw on to fox to heal him and give him more chakra, and Sasuke has the curse mark, which is sage energy.

They have plenty of Stamina

Conclusion

Physical strength is the biggest contested point, and I think I have shown throughout, that while maybe not being superior , they have enough strength to be close to Gon and Killua. But strength is not that important for them to have anyway, They have the durability to take the hits that Killua and Gon can dish out, and they have the Jutsu power to strike them back, Having city block level attacks in base, and even amazingly strong attacks back in the land of waves. Their most powerful attacks, especially Naruto with the tailed cloak, would be above city block level power, and were effecting the entire location with just the latent energy. Their attacks are too much for Gon and Killua to handle, at least with the magnitude and density of attacks that will happen here.

Speed wise, I think I have shown that the feats I have shown are better than the ones you have, and even in base Sasuke and Naruto are above super sonic, with actual feats such as keeping up with Gaara's sand and burning with speed showing they are multiple times faster than sound, and one of those was in base. My FTE seem to be at least as good if not better, and they come from a weaker version of the character than yours do. All in all they have a significant speed advantage.

The fight:

Basically, Naruto will be able to attack with half a dozen rasengan at once, as he does this, Sasuke can also use Genjutsu, Katon, and his own clones to attack. Any attempt at finding an opportunity to attack will easily be countered by Sasuke's perception, and can easily be dealt with via clone or substitution. Landing a real hit for Gon and Killua will be very hard, where as Naruto and Sasuke will literally be able to spam attacks back at them, as well as other abilities, something like Genjutsu could create an opening for an easy strike, though with the amount of clones they can attack with, as well as the widespread power of their attacks, they wont need an opening just to attack.

Most of the methods you stated to be used to win are countered by Clones, Substitution, Durability and Regen.

All of this will overwhelm Killua and Gon, they have to deal with a constant offense of highly powerful attacks, as well as mind tricks. And on the defense side, will have to get past clones, substitution, and the great eyes of an Uchiha.

Basically Naruto and Sasuke have the easier method of attack, they have the superior speed, and they have the DC to pound Gon and Killua down.

Version 2

Responses:

Therefore Gon's Jajanken's max out at city block +

considering that he is several fold more destructive near the ending of the chimera arc.

Conclusion: Gon and Killua are still massively stronger than the ninja duo.

I'm not where you are getting city block from? That doesn't seem to be the size of a city block, and just being the size of a city block doesnt really mean you can destroy them.

I'm really not sure how impressive that is.

The Katon I have shown, is about 40 cubic meters of actual rock, to vaporize rock requires over 10,000 joules per cc, destroying that much rock on it's own is about 400,000,000,000 Joules, or City block level.

And Land of Waves Naruto was punching harder than that attack.

So I am not really sure it would be better.

I have also shown you the crazy shit that Naruto and Sasuke have tanked, My durability feats are at least on par with yours, especially considering the giant rasegnan and chidori clashes, yet they can also hurt each other with their punches, so their punches are not insanely weak when compared to their jutsus.

My bad, I wasn't clear enough.

by complicated equations I mean they're too complicated to use for calls regarding manga, because the illustrator doesn't draw these accurately terms of how tic the depictions are. He doesn't draw his panels in accordance with the all the laws and equations of Mechanics.

height of projectile = u^2sin^2a/2g

u= initial velocity.

a = launch angle

g = acceleration due to gravity

What is the probability Togashi drew the punching feat in accordance and with this equation in mind?

I'm not saying the calc is wrong or anything tho, and since I did change my main feat so it is irrelevant.

I mean, that is how we judge feats, projectile motion is simple stuff really, that is like saying that people didn't keep in mind the formula for gravitational binding energy ( which is even more complicated ), which they likely dont, but we still USE GBE to find out how much it would take to bust a planet.

It isn't that the authors had the formula in mind, it is that the authors made the feat, and we use the formula, to know how much energy or power the feat would take.

These equations are just representations of reality, and they really arent that complicated to begin with, it's just angles and speeds, its simple motion calculations, how long the equation is doesnt determine how complicated the physics are.

Without some method of quantifying the feats, we would have to compare them completely subjectively, someone who destroys a 100m of straw could be seen as stronger than someone who destroyed 40 meters of stone, because it is bigger.

Basically, I did not do the calc to prove the feat is weak per se, I did the calc because without that calc, or something else, we have no way to compare the feat objectively, Like I said, you can have a character show MUCH better feats, like busting a planet, that would be above your feat obviously, but why is it obvious?? Because we know busting a planet takes more power than throwing someone across a large area, but you can only say that if you know how much energy it takes to perform the feat, in some way, be it a calc or some other method. You need some objective way to compare it, Other wise, me saying that the feats shown in Naruto are just as good, cannot be denied objectively.

No, I think someone is weaker if their serious feat pales in comparison to another's casual feat.

Prove to me that Naruto and Sasuke's other feats are not just as impressive, show me why they pale in comparison? Sending people away is not the only way to show strength, Naruto has stopped snakes weighing 100s of tons, he has punched with force above even powerful rock breaking jutsu, He is on par with character that have taken hits able to completely pulverize meters of rocks, and everything else I have shown. Without any quantification, I dont know how you can say the feat is better.

But I do accept what you're posing, different author's have different drawing/art and depiction styles, and my argument is fallacious because it assumes Togashi(hxh writer) = Kishimoto.

Well I feel like I wasted the last 5 minutes, But it's ok, I wanted to at least get my explanation out there in case anyone else did not understand.

A)Not to same the degree as in a cramped room, in a cramped room you may have to accelerate/ decelerate hundreds of times if your travelling at sonic speeds, where as in open space depending on the obstacles around you may have to accelerate only once or, at max a dozen times, so moving sonic in a cramped space is much much harder.

Well like I said, these character show they can accelerate almost instantly, so it doesnt really matter to much. And I think the fact that there are things that make it much harder outside mitigate any thing coming from the fact it was inside. I think they are both impressive, and both in base, though Naruto's was a bit earlier.

I went and checked it out, it turns out you're right, my bad, but the feat is still low supersonic or so.

I mean, I guess I would have to see the calc, not sure the exact timeframe that you would need to make traveling that short of a distance supersonic, but then Naruto's feat should be as well, as it is harder to go FTE over a large distance, and they do it constantly.

No what I meant was, do you know where Haku was standing?, is this actually a FTE feat? since she wasn't in their field of vision for the most part.

Even if she was behind them she would have to step in front of them at some point and they did not see here, but here are the full scans:

Gallery

Naruto's feat is much better though, longer distance, more actions, but her's was still impressive, clowning them and taking their swords, from a decent distance.

Well, York New city arc Killua was low supersonic as we agreed.

I have arguments similar to yours.

Greed island Gon/Killua went through hellish training and would blitz their former selves who are low supersonic.

Chimera arc Gon and Killua became massively stronger, where Killua casually blitz - kills a creature that was outspeeding him, already mid - high supersonic, they also go through training far worse that their Greed Island training.

Then there is Godspeed and whirlwind, and a boost for Gon's Nen.

Giving us very high supersonic and mid supersonic.

Yes, they both got stronger by a large amount, That is why I tried not to mention this as much.

Though it is very impressive:

What I tried to focus on is that they also got stronger, but, they also have the better speed feats, Most of your's I actually havent seen what makes them supersonic, and most of the feats you are saying are supersonic ( Like Blitzing and FTE stuff) My characters did the same, yet even earlier if not better.

And when it comes to actual feats, while some are shaky like Temari reacting to sound, Sasuke in the FoD was able to react to sound, and he should be even faster now, even in base, because he was able to keep up with Gaara's sand, which can react to explosions, and to thousands of needles which would be moving 100s of meter per second, enough for the sand to get all over their body. That makes Base Naruto and Sasuke more than supersonic, and they would blitz their bases in their 2nd forms, and they get even faster in their last forms, In his second form, which Sasuke kept up with, being only in base with 3 tomoe, Naruto was able to burn things with his speed, that is a feat that would be multiple times faster than anything you have shown, and is a high supersonic feat.

They would be much closer to hypersonic than Gon and Killua, from what you have shown. Maybe even hypersonic depending on where you draw the line. But they would definitely have a speed edge.

And your main showings of speed where FTE Movement, which my characters have shown better feats with, I have shown Haku already, Naruto's speed feat was actually calculated as hypersonic.

In the middle panels on the second page, we can see that they don't even see Naruto until he speaks.

They also do not notice the log until after it has hit the floor.

Seems about the right level of non-reaction for this.

Which means I can use a timeframe of 0.0082 seconds for everything that happens in that blitz.

First I need to find the distance.

Which we will do using the first scan.

I'm going to guess that Inari is 1m tall even though I'm pretty sure that's lower than my height at that age.

Inari is 42px tall

bridge width is 221 px (5.2619 m)

random thug is 121.34px (1.7m)

panel height is 366px

2*tan(121.84/(366/tan((70/2 deg))) 27.2054007 deg

or around 3.58 meters

now the bridge on the bottom is 40.46 px

2*tan(40.46/(366/tan((70/2 deg))) 8.88776968 deg

or around 33.853 meters till the end of the bridge

which makes sense considering that the bridge perspective gets screwed as you go into the bottom so scalling from inari is kinda nonsensical

33.853-3.58=30.273 m

Now that I have that I can simply use the equation of D/T = S

30.273/0.0082 = 3691.82927 m/s

or

Nardo blitz thugs=10.8490678 mach

The calc uses a bit of pixel scaling, but it is pretty clear and you don't need it to see how far it is.

But that is just extra, It is still clearly impressive to have a feat like that back in the land of waves arc, and shows they have the better speed from what was shown.

-Superior speed, there is no doubt in my mind that a combination of whirlwind and godspeed, Killua is faster than CS1 Sasuke, not to mention Nen techniques like Ryu and Ko can increase their over all speed a notch or so in certain situations.

Techniques are nice and all, But Sasuke would literally blitz his old self, and is above supersonic in base keeping up with sands that could react to explosions, with 2 Tomoe, With 3 Tomoe he was fighting someone who could set things on fire with speed, which is a high level supersonic feat.

Basically they have the more concrete feats, and their FTE feats are actually better as well.

So, especially once Naruto pulls out his best, they are actually the ones that are faster, a significant edge.

-Better chemistry: This completely opinion based, but I feel like Naruto and Sasuke reached a peaking point in their conflict, they also had their intense desire to be superior to each other and outdo each other.

Gon and Killua were together a lot more, But Naruto and Sasuke still have a bond, they can talk through fights, and they were able to understand complex plans from each other without even saying a word, in an instant.

If I take a scenario, I can imagine Gon and Killua in a corporation and fairly unified style of fighting, whereas Naruto and Sasuke each be doing their own thing and it is likely, with their versatility, that they will get in each other's way, or at the very least they will most definitely not let the themselves or each other use their power to the best.

This is not within their verse though, it's not like they will turn around and try to kill each other, They should be able to work together as well as they would in good circumstance, since they are in a mindset of winning the battle.

I don't see why they would get in each others way and their powers actually work quite well together, without taking anything away from each other.

It is not like it is some complex plan they need to do, Sasuke can stay back, and Naruto can spam clones. Using their overwhelming DC and Speed, they take down their opponents.

-Superior strength: Like I said, they're on city block + level at full power, I don't believe the two, especially Sasuke can go on tanking strikes from Gon.

-Superior durability, Rasengans and Chidoris will not scratch Gon and Killua in Ken, and Ko is just spite.

I would like to address both of these together.

Lets start with strength:

I have shown some quite good strength my self, Naruto being able to stop a 100s of tons sized snake, Lee moving with weights, Naruto fucking up Gaara's sand with Punches in Base etc.

But I can show you a few more:

Gallery

There is also this:

Which Chouji smashed into tiny pieces. CS1 Jirobo could even easily stop attacks like that.

Naruto and Sasuke should be comparable, at least in striking power and durability.

In fact Jirobo was doing shit like this:

Gallery

Which while Naruto and Sasuke would not be able to replicate in base and only possibly in CS1/Kn0, Kn1 would for sure be on this level.

Another way to show how strong they are, is related to something else you said, And that is durability. These fighters are able to damage each other with punches and kicks, yet their durability is insane.

Even weaker ninja are able to take hits like these:

Gallery

Even when they were much weaker they could take hits like these:

Gallery

Or any of the hits I showed before that were in weaker forms, including building and block level shockwaves and Katons.

Naruto is able to tank Katon much stronger than the other one:

He literally like barks it away

He can just sit with his face in lava:

And these are just a few things, I have shown their durability and attack power before, They can tank all sorts of attacks, even super powerful Katons, or the Clash of their Chidori and Rasengan, all I have shown proves they have insane levels of durability.

On top of that, the fact they can punch each other around, in addition to all the strength feats, shows even further how strong they are and that their Punches and Kicks are comparable to their weaker Jutsu, which we already know, because Naruto was shown stronger than Sasuke's impressive Katon all the way back in the Land of Waves arc.

Not only should they have comparable strength to Gon and Killua, they should be able to tank attacks from them quite well. Even though they dont have to due to clones and substitution jutsu.

Now I will move into their DC and Jutsu's and also a bit into your durability.

Firstly, This:

Does not really look Cityblock+ level to me.

Though it is hard to say, however I can say it is not superior to everything I have shown so far, and I will show a few more things to prove my point, and also address some of the feats I showed already.

First a few more feats

Sasuke in BASE could do stuff like this:

Gallery

( also naruto tanked a stronger version )

Weaker base Chidori are able to do this:

Sasuke's weakest Katon that I have shown before vaporized rock, in fact if you use vaporization values, that feat comes out to city block level, way back in the land of waves, no matter what it is impressive.

Sasuke could pierce Gaara's Sand in Base, sand that could withstand explosions, attacks from Kimimaro , and most anything else.

Even Fodder Ninja thugs have jutsu capable of this:

Gallery

Naruto can do this:

By screaming.

Even Jounin, who are around sound 4 level, were able to perform like Town level feats in small groups, just another thing showing the potential power of these attacks.

In Base Naruto and Sasuke clashed and just the shockwaves were releasing massive amounts of energy.

They are far stronger in CS1 and Kn0

Their final clash caused the entire VoE and the water ( Keep in mind that water weighs almost a TON per each meter ) and even clouds ( which while floating also weigh massive amounts and take insane energy to move ) in it to move, and as I have shown the Valley of the End is massive. The direct hit of that attack would be even stronger.

Basically, their destructive capacity is insane, from everything I mentioned so far and everything I have mentioned here.

-Things like lightning bolt, which moves at the speed of lightning and can paralyse the victim temporarily will be a big problem for Naruto and Sasuke, in fact this alone is enough to defeat them in many scenarios.

How do you know it moves that fast? or that they can aim it without Sasuke easily seeing whats up and dodging it?

If you want to bring lightning up, Kakashi was SHOWN cutting lightning in the anime, so Naruto and Sasuke both get Mach 300+ Speed.

-Stamina, one more point I just noticed, Gon and Killua ran for 80 - 100 km without breaking a sweat, later on as they're physical stats increased many many fold.

Is that really that impressive? Someone like Kakashi who is has way less stamina than these too, was able to fight for 24 hours, and an entire war.

Heck, Naruto and Sasuke both fought the whole war too.

And Naruto can draw on to fox to heal him and give him more chakra, and Sasuke has the curse mark, which is sage energy.

He was able to stand and fight after being hit with the 64 palms, power attacks that also weakened him:

They have plenty of Stamina

Conclusion

The biggest contention point seems to be strength, However, I think I have shown that Naruto and Sasuke are at least comparable in strength to Gon and Killua, and at least have the striking power and durability to throw hands with them, Though really, they wont need too, as they have the advantage of multiple long range attacks, Shadow clones, and Substitutions.

Power wise, Naruto in Kn0 and Sasuke in Cs1 should be enough to match the power and durability you have shown. Sasuke and Naruto even in base have shown power that is somewhat comparable ( Katons, Rasangan Chidori, and the clash) , and once they are in their full power forms their jutsu in on another level, and looking at their feats and other feats we can see how much power they have.

I also think they surpass them in speed, being even faster than their base forms which are multiple times faster than sound already, and even have feats in Kn0 and Base 3 Tomoe that are multiple times faster than sound as well.

They have the versatility and power to do what they need to do. They have the stat edge and the numbers edge, any tactical difference should be negligible.

Regen is something extremely hard to deal with as well.

They have the power to stand up to them, and Naruto also has the power of the nine tailed fox, who can erase mountain ranges easily, but of course he doesn't have all that power.

But his final form was shown to be much faster and stronger than anything before, It's rasengan was effecting the whole of the Valley, moving clouds and tons and tons of water, just by the latent energy of the attacks.

It is quite the force, faster and stronger, as well as increased regen, durability, and general power.

And gives him the ability to do stuff like this:

Gallery

The fight:

Basically, Naruto will be able to attack with half a dozen rasengan at once, as he does this, Sasuke can also use Genjutsu, Katon, and his own clones to attack. Any attempt at finding an opportunity to attack will easily be countered by Sasuke's perception, and can easily be dealt with via clone or substitution. Landing a real hit for Gon and Killua will be very hard, where as Naruto and Sasuke will literally be able to spam attacks back at them, as well as other abilities, something like Genjutsu could create an opening for an easy strike, though with the amount of clones they can attack with, as well as the widespread power of their attacks, they wont need an opening just to attack.

Most of the methods you stated to be used to win are countered by Clones, Substitution, Durability and Regen.

All of this will overwhelm Killua and Gon, they have to deal with a constant offense of highly powerful attacks, as well as mind tricks. And on the defense side, will have to get past clones, substitution, and the great eyes of an Uchiha.

Basically Naruto and Sasuke have the easier method of attack, they have the superior speed, and they have the DC to pound Gon and Killua down.

Restructure justu, durabilityu and strength part.

Or this strength feats:

-Another way to show striking power is by hurting people with insane durability, here are some things going over how durable they are:

-Jutsu Power ( put something imagy when expalinging the clahses )

VERSION !111

Responses:

Therefore Gon's Jajanken's max out at city block +

considering that he is several fold more destructive near the ending of the chimera arc.

Conclusion: Gon and Killua are still massively stronger than the ninja duo.

I'm not where you are getting city block from? That doesn't seem to be the size of a city block, and just being the size of a city block doesnt really mean you can destroy them.

I'm really not sure how impressive that is.

The Katon I have shown, is about 40 cubic meters of actual rock, to vaporize rock requires over 10,000 joules per cc, destroying that much rock on it's own is about 400,000,000,000 Joules, or City block level.

And Land of Waves Naruto was punching harder than that attack.

So I am not really sure it would be better.

I have also shown you the crazy shit that Naruto and Sasuke have tanked, My durability feats are at least on par with yours, especially considering the giant rasegnan and chidori clashes, yet they can also hurt each other with their punches, so their punches are not insanely weak when compared to their jutsus.

My bad, I wasn't clear enough.

by complicated equations I mean they're too complicated to use for calls regarding manga, because the illustrator doesn't draw these accurately terms of how tic the depictions are. He doesn't draw his panels in accordance with the all the laws and equations of Mechanics.

height of projectile = u^2sin^2a/2g

u= initial velocity.

a = launch angle

g = acceleration due to gravity

What is the probability Togashi drew the punching feat in accordance and with this equation in mind?

I'm not saying the calc is wrong or anything tho, and since I did change my main feat so it is irrelevant.

I mean, that is how we judge feats, projectile motion is simple stuff really, that is like saying that people didn't keep in mind the formula for gravitational binding energy ( which is even more complicated ), which they likely dont, but we still USE GBE to find out how much it would take to bust a planet.

It isn't that the authors had the formula in mind, it is that the authors made the feat, and we use the formula, to know how much energy or power the feat would take.

These equations are just representations of reality, and they really arent that complicated to begin with, it's just angles and speeds, its simple motion calculations, how long the equation is doesnt determine how complicated the physics are.

Without some method of quantifying the feats, we would have to compare them completely subjectively, someone who destroys a 100m of straw could be seen as stronger than someone who destroyed 40 meters of stone, because it is bigger.

Basically, I did not do the calc to prove the feat is weak per se, I did the calc because without that calc, or something else, we have no way to compare the feat objectively, Like I said, you can have a character show MUCH better feats, like busting a planet, that would be above your feat obviously, but why is it obvious?? Because we know busting a planet takes more power than throwing someone across a large area, but you can only say that if you know how much energy it takes to perform the feat, in some way, be it a calc or some other method. You need some objective way to compare it, Other wise, me saying that the feats shown in Naruto are just as good, cannot be denied objectively.

No, I think someone is weaker if their serious feat pales in comparison to another's casual feat.

Prove to me that Naruto and Sasuke's other feats are not just as impressive, show me why they pale in comparison? Sending people away is not the only way to show strength, Naruto has stopped snakes weighing 100s of tons, he has punched with force above even powerful rock breaking jutsu, He is on par with character that have taken hits able to completely pulverize meters of rocks, and everything else I have shown. Without any quantification, I dont know how you can say the feat is better.

But I do accept what you're posing, different author's have different drawing/art and depiction styles, and my argument is fallacious because it assumes Togashi(hxh writer) = Kishimoto.

Well I feel like I wasted the last 5 minutes, But it's ok, I wanted to at least get my explanation out there in case anyone else did not understand.

A)Not to same the degree as in a cramped room, in a cramped room you may have to accelerate/ decelerate hundreds of times if your travelling at sonic speeds, where as in open space depending on the obstacles around you may have to accelerate only once or, at max a dozen times, so moving sonic in a cramped space is much much harder.

Well like I said, these character show they can accelerate almost instantly, so it doesnt really matter to much. And I think the fact that there are things that make it much harder outside mitigate any thing coming from the fact it was inside. I think they are both impressive, and both in base, though Naruto's was a bit earlier.

I went and checked it out, it turns out you're right, my bad, but the feat is still low supersonic or so.

I mean, I guess I would have to see the calc, not sure the exact timeframe that you would need to make traveling that short of a distance supersonic, but then Naruto's feat should be as well, as it is harder to go FTE over a large distance, and they do it constantly.

No what I meant was, do you know where Haku was standing?, is this actually a FTE feat? since she wasn't in their field of vision for the most part.

Even if she was behind them she would have to step in front of them at some point and they did not see here, but here are the full scans:

Gallery

Naruto's feat is much better though, longer distance, more actions, but her's was still impressive, clowning them and taking their swords, from a decent distance.

Well, York New city arc Killua was low supersonic as we agreed.

I have arguments similar to yours.

Greed island Gon/Killua went through hellish training and would blitz their former selves who are low supersonic.

Chimera arc Gon and Killua became massively stronger, where Killua casually blitz - kills a creature that was outspeeding him, already mid - high supersonic, they also go through training far worse that their Greed Island training.

Then there is Godspeed and whirlwind, and a boost for Gon's Nen.

Giving us very high supersonic and mid supersonic.

Yes, they both got stronger by a large amount, That is why I tried not to mention this as much.

Though it is very impressive:

What I tried to focus on is that they also got stronger, but, they also have the better speed feats, Most of your's I actually havent seen what makes them supersonic, and most of the feats you are saying are supersonic ( Like Blitzing and FTE stuff) My characters did the same, yet even earlier if not better.

And when it comes to actual feats, while some are shaky like Temari reacting to sound, Sasuke in the FoD was able to react to sound, and he should be even faster now, even in base, because he was able to keep up with Gaara's sand, which can react to explosions, and to thousands of needles which would be moving 100s of meter per second, enough for the sand to get all over their body. That makes Base Naruto and Sasuke more than supersonic, and they would blitz their bases in their 2nd forms, and they get even faster in their last forms, In his second form, which Sasuke kept up with, being only in base with 3 tomoe, Naruto was able to burn things with his speed, that is a feat that would be multiple times faster than anything you have shown, and is a high supersonic feat.

They would be much closer to hypersonic than Gon and Killua, from what you have shown. Maybe even hypersonic depending on where you draw the line. But they would definitely have a speed edge.

And your main showings of speed where FTE Movement, which my characters have shown better feats with, I have shown Haku already, Naruto's speed feat was actually calculated as hypersonic.

In the middle panels on the second page, we can see that they don't even see Naruto until he speaks.

They also do not notice the log until after it has hit the floor.

Seems about the right level of non-reaction for this.

Which means I can use a timeframe of 0.0082 seconds for everything that happens in that blitz.

First I need to find the distance.

Which we will do using the first scan.

I'm going to guess that Inari is 1m tall even though I'm pretty sure that's lower than my height at that age.

Inari is 42px tall

bridge width is 221 px (5.2619 m)

random thug is 121.34px (1.7m)

panel height is 366px

2*tan(121.84/(366/tan((70/2 deg))) 27.2054007 deg

or around 3.58 meters

now the bridge on the bottom is 40.46 px

2*tan(40.46/(366/tan((70/2 deg))) 8.88776968 deg

or around 33.853 meters till the end of the bridge

which makes sense considering that the bridge perspective gets screwed as you go into the bottom so scalling from inari is kinda nonsensical

33.853-3.58=30.273 m

Now that I have that I can simply use the equation of D/T = S

30.273/0.0082 = 3691.82927 m/s

or

Nardo blitz thugs=10.8490678 mach

The calc uses a bit of pixel scaling, but it is pretty clear and you don't need it to see how far it is.

But that is just extra, It is still clearly impressive to have a feat like that back in the land of waves arc, and shows they have the better speed from what was shown.

-Superior speed, there is no doubt in my mind that a combination of whirlwind and godspeed, Killua is faster than CS1 Sasuke, not to mention Nen techniques like Ryu and Ko can increase their over all speed a notch or so in certain situations.

Techniques are nice and all, But Sasuke would literally blitz his old self, and is above supersonic in base keeping up with sands that could react to explosions, with 2 Tomoe, With 3 Tomoe he was fighting someone who could set things on fire with speed, which is a high level supersonic feat.

Basically they have the more concrete feats, and their FTE feats are actually better as well.

So, especially once Naruto pulls out his best, they are actually the ones that are faster, a significant edge.

-Better chemistry: This completely opinion based, but I feel like Naruto and Sasuke reached a peaking point in their conflict, they also had their intense desire to be superior to each other and outdo each other.

Gon and Killua were together a lot more, But Naruto and Sasuke still have a bond, they can talk through fights, and they were able to understand complex plans from each other without even saying a word, in an instant.

If I take a scenario, I can imagine Gon and Killua in a corporation and fairly unified style of fighting, whereas Naruto and Sasuke each be doing their own thing and it is likely, with their versatility, that they will get in each other's way, or at the very least they will most definitely not let the themselves or each other use their power to the best.

This is not within their verse though, it's not like they will turn around and try to kill each other, They should be able to work together as well as they would in good circumstance, since they are in a mindset of winning the battle.

I don't see why they would get in each others way and their powers actually work quite well together, without taking anything away from each other.

It is not like it is some complex plan they need to do, Sasuke can stay back, and Naruto can spam clones. Using their overwhelming DC and Speed, they take down their opponents.

-Superior strength: Like I said, they're on city block + level at full power, I don't believe the two, especially Sasuke can go on tanking strikes from Gon.

I have shown some quite good strength my self, Naruto being able to stop a 100s of tons sized snake, Lee moving with weights, Naruto fucking up Gaara's sand with Punches in Base etc.

Or this:

Or this:

Or this:

Sorry for a bit of a scan dump, just want to show a bit more that they are quite damn strong.

There is this too:

Which Chouji smashed into tiny pieces. CS1 Jirobo could even easily stop attacks like that.

Naruto and Sasuke should be comparable, at least in striking power and durability.

In fact Jirobo was doing shit like this:

Gallery

Which while Naruto and Sasuke would not be able to replicate in base and only possibly in CS1/Kn0, Kn1 would for sure be on this level.

Naruto can do stuff like this with a SCREAM:

When it comes to striking strength, I have shown that they are able to hurt each other with strikes, their strikes are able to overcome each others durability, the same durability that allowed them to tank the combined force a city block level attack, or some of the other stuff I will show below. Even back in the LoW arc, Naruto's strikes were shown to be stronger than that early Katon, their striking power is comparable to their Jutsu.

And As for how durable they are and how powerful their jutsu are, I will go over that some more now and in the next quote reply.

Even weaker ninja are able to take hits like these:

Gallery

Even when they were much weaker they could take hits like these:

Gallery

Or any of the hits I showed before that were in weaker forms, including building and block level shockwaves and Katons.

Naruto is able to tank a Katon MUCH stronger than the one which is already Building-City Block level

He literally barks it away:

The same attack which when MUCH weaker left giant craters in rock.

Heck he can just sit in lava:

( Sasuke's Katon freaking lit up the whole Valley melting rocks and shit too)

And these are just a few things, There is also every thing else I have gone over and all the feats I have shown to demonstrate how strong they are and the level of attacks they are tanking.

They can damage each other with punches, doing damage relative to weaker jutsu, or the shockwaves of stronger jutsu.

Not only should they have comparable strength to Gon and Killua, they should be able to tank attacks from them quite well. Even though they dont have to due to clones and substitution jutsu.

And to be honest, This:

Doesnt look Cityblock+ to me.

Though it is hard to say. I would say it is not above everything I have shown, and in fact lets talk about that now.

-Superior durability, Rasengans and Chidoris will not scratch Gon and Killua in Ken, and Ko is just spite.

Sasuke in BASE is able to do stuff like this:

Or this:

( And Naruto tanked a more powerful version no problem ( in fact he can sit inside them easily ) , Yet Sasuke can still harm him, speaks to both Naruto's crazy durability and Sasuke's strength and more powerful jutsu )

Weaker chidori are able to completely carve giant holes into rocks with one attack, able to blow out stone without even touching it.

A much weaker base Sasuke could do this:

In one shot.

Sasuke's weakest Katon's destroyed so much rock, that if you measure how much it takes to vaporize that much rock, you would get City Block+ , as shown before, and that was BELL TEST Sasuke.

Sasuke could pierce Gaara's sand in Base, the sand that could withstand explosions, attacks by Kimimaro, and a lot of other stuff.

Even Fodder Ninja thugs have jutsu capable of this:

Gallery

I have shown you what Naruto could do with just a shout.

Naruto and Sasuke's clash in BASE was insanely impressive, around city block level right there.

Their final clash caused the entire VoE and the water ( Keep in mind that water weighs almost a TON per each meter ) and even clouds ( which while floating also weigh massive amounts and take insane energy to move ) in it to move, and as I have shown the Valley of the End is massive. The direct hit of that attack would be even stronger.

Even Jounin, who are around sound 4 level, were able to perform like Town level feats in small groups, just another thing showing the potential power of these attacks.

-Things like lightning bolt, which moves at the speed of lightning and can paralyse the victim temporarily will be a big problem for Naruto and Sasuke, in fact this alone is enough to defeat them in many scenarios.

How do you know it moves that fast? or that they can aim it without Sasuke easily seeing whats up and dodging it?

If you want to bring lightning up, Kakashi was SHOWN cutting lightning in the anime, so Naruto and Sasuke both get Mach 300+ Speed.

-Stamina, one more point I just noticed, Gon and Killua ran for 80 - 100 km without breaking a sweat, later on as they're physical stats increased many many fold.

Is that really that impressive? Someone like Kakashi who is has way less stamina than these too, was able to fight for 24 hours, and an entire war.

Heck, Naruto and Sasuke both fought the whole war too.

And Naruto can draw on to fox to heal him and give him more chakra, and Sasuke has the curse mark, which is sage energy.

He was able to stand and fight after being hit with the 64 palms, power attacks that also weakened him:

They have plenty of Stamina

Conclusion

The biggest contention point seems to be strength, However, I think I have shown that Naruto and Sasuke are at least comparable in strength to Gon and Killua, and at least have the striking power and durability to throw hands with them, Though really, they wont need too, as they have the advantage of multiple long range attacks, Shadow clones, and Substitutions.

Power wise, Naruto in Kn0 and Sasuke in Cs1 should be enough to match the power and durability you have shown. Sasuke and Naruto even in base have shown power that is somewhat comparable ( Katons, Rasangan Chidori, and the clash) , and once they are in their full power forms their jutsu in on another level, and looking at their feats and other feats we can see how much power they have.

I also think they surpass them in speed, being even faster than their base forms which are multiple times faster than sound already, and even have feats in Kn0 and Base 3 Tomoe that are multiple times faster than sound as well.

They have the versatility and power to do what they need to do. They have the stat edge and the numbers edge, any tactical difference should be negligible.

Regen is something extremely hard to deal with as well.

They have the power to stand up to them, and Naruto also has the power of the nine tailed fox, who can erase mountain ranges easily, but of course he doesn't have all that power.

But his final form was shown to be much faster and stronger than anything before, It's rasengan was effecting the whole of the Valley, moving clouds and tons and tons of water, just by the latent energy of the attacks.

It is quite the force, faster and stronger, as well as increased regen, durability, and general power.

And gives him the ability to do stuff like this:

Gallery

The fight:

Basically, Naruto will be able to attack with half a dozen rasengan at once, as he does this, Sasuke can also use Genjutsu, Katon, and his own clones to attack. Any attempt at finding an opportunity to attack will easily be countered by Sasuke's perception, and can easily be dealt with via clone or substitution. Landing a real hit for Gon and Killua will be very hard, where as Naruto and Sasuke will literally be able to spam attacks back at them, as well as other abilities, something like Genjutsu could create an opening for an easy strike, though with the amount of clones they can attack with, as well as the widespread power of their attacks, they wont need an opening just to attack.

Most of the methods you stated to be used to win are countered by Clones, Substitution, Durability and Regen.

All of this will overwhelm Killua and Gon, they have to deal with a constant offense of highly powerful attacks, as well as mind tricks. And on the defense side, will have to get past clones, substitution, and the great eyes of an Uchiha.

Basically Naruto and Sasuke have the easier method of attack, they have the superior speed, and they have the DC to pound Gon and Killua down.

Restructure justu, durabilityu and strength part.

Or this strength feats:

-Another way to show striking power is by hurting people with insane durability, here are some things going over how durable they are:

-Jutsu Power ( put something imagy when expalinging the clahses )