DocFatalis

@Malevolent1 said:

I could see Wally taking out the other two...

But not Bob. The result of the uber super-soldier serum Bob imbibed as a teenager in combination with a "photosynthetic reaction to sunlight which allows to step an instant ahead of the current time-line...". This means speed steal is out on the Sentry. Speed steal is completely ineffective on a guy whose molecules are..."an instant ahead of the current timeline". Re-read the Sentry's '05 mini. I forgot just how powerful the guy is. Broke every bone in Hulk's body as the Void. As the Sentry (which, incidentally, is NOT the real Bob....the Void is Bob...the Sentry is a hard light construct...a projection of Robert Reynolds subconscious...an ultra Jiminy Cricket of sorts....), he literally took out Terrax with one hand, one shotted Attuma and broke through...that's right...I said broke through...Dr Strange's auto shields. Dude's a beast. He re-integrated himself after being de-molecularized by Owen Reese and came back from being BFR'd in time by Morgan LeFay.

Not in a million years does Wally take out the Sentry.

Sentry solos.

My thoughts exactly.

@Lvenger said:

@DocFatalis said:

@Lvenger said:

@Hyper_God: Wait where is your quote? I put it in my response. Anyway that reply is a good one but you fail to address my point which is that Superman was holding back in the aircraft carrier instance. I again refer you to Slim's analogy of trying not to break a paper airplane for fear of spilling living water droplets. It clearly shows why Superman is holding back his strength against such an object. He's done it plenty of times before Pre New 52 and the fact you overlook those is quite worrying in your response. He's applying that same mantra in holding back

Also where's the Stephanie Brown debunking post? You said you were gonna debunk that. Having read the issues I have after reading this, I don't see how Stephanie was helpless at all. Why do you feel the need to debunk it?

On the panel, Supes and WW look like they are pushing as hard as they can, and the unarticulated words they let out clearly go this way too: I never go "nng" or "ddt" at the gym because I'm holding back. It mostly looks like Wonder Woman has to add her strength to Supe's strength because he can not do that on his own. Nowhere is there anything suggesting that it's a matter of controlling the strength in question, something the presence of WW wouldn't help him with anyway: she is not a coach, and supposing it would be a matter of balance, all he'd have to do given his speed is to alternatively push on various parts of the object he's trying to slow down.

But clearly in the context of Superman moving the Earth for 5 days, to say he's straining with the aircraft carrier would be absurd. WW's presence helps him slow down the craft even faster than he could do on his own. Read my other posts on the matter as they explain why Superman can bench press the weight of the Earth yet hold back on the aircraft carrier. It's the simplest, best fitting explanation under the circumstances.

But I have read your other posts, and your logic is to say that he can't be having difficulties lifting the carrier because he can bench press the Earth. I, and I believe @Hyper_God believe just the contrary: that everything shown prior to and after that bench pressing episode seems to hint to the fact that the bench pressing feat is the one element that doesn't make any sense and should be attributed to this one particular author's writing.

@Lvenger said:

@Hyper_God: Wait where is your quote? I put it in my response. Anyway that reply is a good one but you fail to address my point which is that Superman was holding back in the aircraft carrier instance. I again refer you to Slim's analogy of trying not to break a paper airplane for fear of spilling living water droplets. It clearly shows why Superman is holding back his strength against such an object. He's done it plenty of times before Pre New 52 and the fact you overlook those is quite worrying in your response. He's applying that same mantra in holding back

Also where's the Stephanie Brown debunking post? You said you were gonna debunk that. Having read the issues I have after reading this, I don't see how Stephanie was helpless at all. Why do you feel the need to debunk it?

On the panel, Supes and WW look like they are pushing as hard as they can, and the unarticulated words they let out clearly go this way too: I never go "nng" or "ddt" at the gym because I'm holding back. It mostly looks like Wonder Woman has to add her strength to Supe's strength because he can not do that on his own. Nowhere is there anything suggesting that it's a matter of controlling the strength in question, something the presence of WW wouldn't help him with anyway: she is not a coach, and supposing it would be a matter of balance, all he'd have to do given his speed is to alternatively push on various parts of the object he's trying to slow down.

@Hyper_God said:

@laflux said:

@Hyper_God: Just to clarify, who wrote that issue?

Which issue ? JL #15 ? Johns did .

The planet benching fanservice was written by Lobdell .

I think this expression is spot on and I strongly suspect writers to try to indulge the fans with those episodic exaggerations in order to keep them buying.

@Hyper_God said:

. Isolated high-end feats are just that : isolated high-end feats .

Hear! Hear!

Doom three times I am afraid.

Round 1: has already happened and Doom took it.

Round 2: even naked, Doom still has magic.

Round 3: giving him that much preparation time is like begging for him to brutalize Stark.

@Dredeuced said:

If Bob is completely in control of all his powers, then he's an impregnable psychic beast and a matter manipulator that would rend J'onn asunder.

This. There is a reason why the writers kept the Sentry unstable and incapable of controlling the full array of his powers. If he did there wouldn't be much space left for anyone under major reality manipulator level.

@uberhikari said:

The fact that Superman gets hit by the villains in the beginning of his fights is NOT evidence that he needs to determine the proper level of power/speed to use in order to face his opponents, all it shows is that there's a plot device operative that makes Superman lose before he wins. But even if you're right @Vance Astro has already told you that plot devices can't be used in fights because PIS and CIS are turned off in versus matches. It's assumed that the fighters are fighting to the best of their ability with whatever plot devices that limit their powers in a story non-operative in the fight. You've literally just gone around in a circle. What you're trying to do is use a plot device deployed by writers to limit Superman's powers in order to add suspense and tension to a story as a reason why Superman wouldn't speed blitz and K.O. Dante. You make it seem like Superman is some bumbling fool who doesn't know how to effectively use his powers in a fight when this is not only not true, but sometimes contradicted by how Superman can instantaneously use his powers effectively in certain circumstances. Explain how, for example, Clark Kent can change into Superman and instantaneously access his full powers with the proper so-called adjustments but sometimes loses fights to people he should defeat? So, Superman knows how to adjust his powers to save people from crashing planes but can't adjust his powers instantly when he's in a fight? Nonsense. The only explanation is that Superman's powers are limited when he fights in a way they aren't when the plot requires him to save people.

Your conclusion, like the rest of your argumentation is simply your interpretation of what you read. There is nothing solid there and your theory relies on nothing comparatively more solid than mine. The main difference is that I don't call people troll when they disagree with me, I don't repeat "nonsense" or "stupid" or "lol" every other post and I don't resort constantly to exaggeration in the hope that it will dissimulate the vacuity of what I'm trying to present as an evidence.

Now if indeed we take characters at the best of their abilities and refuse to pay attention to the way they are ordinarily being written, it means that time will be frozen the instant this confrontation begins and that a sword that cuts all will fall on a neck vulnerable to magic with extreme strength. The result will be the death of a Superman who will not have had the time to move, and even less accelerate to a speed above hyper-sonic.

But this in the end is of no importance. What is important is that you have displayed bad manners and inappropriate language as soon as given the opportunity to do it, which to me classifies you as immature, ill suited for debates and globally unpleasant company.

I am done here and will from now on simply ignore your posts.

Thank you for not including my name in your future posts, it will save me the hassle of deleting them from my inbox.

@e3zombie said:

@DocFatalis: Meh I just am getting sick of the superman fanboyism thats going on

If we take the facts from both sides and put it into a logic battle this is what happens.

Superman will come to dante, holding back, lets dante show a little power so superman knows how to act, this is where it ends, time is stopped and the man of steel's head rolls onto the ground.

This is the most likely scenario to me, but to be perfectly honest, I'm sure something could be imagined to let Superman win too, especially if he can get even a bit of information on his opponent prior to the first engagement. The reason why I started posting on this thread is mainly because I didn't like the attitude and manners of some of the posters and the way they were ganging up on someone making a perfectly decent point for Dante. 

@e3zombie said:

@DocFatalis: Well yes anyone saying your wrong is plain stupid, he lives in a world made out of paper if he did not do that he would be killing people all the time.

Thank you. Now I wouldn't call them stupid, just a little bit obsessed with the idea that superman has to be flawless... Nothing serious anyway. The way debaters get heated up and display bad manners at the least occasion always amazes me.