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Going from Loving Cyclops to Loving Beast

By djotaku July 7, 2011 22 Comments

I discovered comics in middle school. As I've mentioned before, I was mostly into Fantastic Four and Spider-Man, but I also enjoyed X-Men. My younger brother collected most of the X-Men comics at that time and it didn't make sense for us to double-up with our meager allowance so we read each other's comics. I was also exposed to X-Men The Animated Series (as I mentioned in my previous blog post). I pretty much liked all of the X-Men. They were all cool in ways that a kid would enjoy at that age. Gambit was cool and a ladies man. Beast was super smart and could make anything for the team. Wolverine was a powerful mutant who'd protect all his friends. And Scott was the leader with the awesome power of shooting optic blasts from his eyes! As someone who got made fun of for wearing glasses, that struck a chord with me.

Cyclops was my favorite character. In addition to identifying with his vision problems, I was the oldest brother and so I knew what it was like to lead others and try to reach consensus on a course of action. (Usually guiding my brothers into what video game we should play or, when younger, what toys to play) Also, when we were very young, my brothers always fought with each other. (usually not litterally in the sense that it usually didn't come to blows) So I had experience with getting them to cooperate so we could have a fun time playing together. So, naturally I "was" Cyclops. I don't know why or how kids do this since I can't remember my state of mind at that age, but watch them watching some TV show or movie they're familiar with and they'll say "I'm (so and so)". It's kinda the kid version of a fantasy league. If that character gets trounced in the show, you get to make fun of your brother (or friend or whoever)

Thanks to seeing Gotham City Sirens at my local comic shop, I got back into comics in May of this year. I started reading current issues as well as catching up with the last ten years' worth of X-Men back-stories. Also, as mentioned, I've been watching the old 1994 cartoon. In doing so, I've come to a different assessment - I love Beast. (Which makes it suck that he's now in The Secret Avengers) Scott just doesn't cut it for me as an adult. In the early years, Scott was not more than a lapdog to Professor X. This is even used as a diss during the Onslaught Saga. Yeah, he was a leader for the X-Men, but it was still all "What does Charles think?" And now, between the events of Onslaught, New X-Men, and whatever caused them to all end up on Utopia, Scott's become something of a jerk. (I'd use a stronger word, but let's try and keep it kiddie clean). To start with, his affair and subsequent relationship with Emma just come off as horrible. I know there may have been some meddling there by Jean to make sure some evil future didn't come to pass, but it still looks like moving too quickly. (Wolverine even comments on that in Astonishing X-Men) And now he seems to be way too OK with killing people for the greater good. Sure, they couldn't stay naive forever after all that's happened to them, but somehow Batman's been able to steer clear of that line. Every time I see him in the most recent issues he comes off like someone I'd hate to have as the leader.

Beast, on the other hand, is a really fun and increasingly complex character. The fun part is prevalent in both the animated series and early comics where his quips remind me of Spider-Man but with a touch of $5 words just because. (Kinda like Mason in Chew) From New X-Men forward (and maybe from some point before that) he became a much more complex character. He had to deal with insecurities surrounding his change to a more feline form. He had girl troubles. And he found a woman. (I'm a little behind so I'm not sure if they're still together, but it seems like a perfect relationship as far as these things go) And he's not only an asset for his super strength, but also his great intellect. Dark Beast has a hard time keeping up with the intellectual demands placed on him when he tries to masquerade as the real Beast during the Onlsaught timeline.

It really is a shame that Beast is no longer with the X-Men although he does appear in one of the current Astonishing X-Men story arcs. My love of his character may lead to me also adding Secret Avengers to my pull list. But Scott is definitely not my favorite anymore. Wolverine is being written better than ever, but his loner persona is something I no longer identify with. Because things are getting crazy now with the Schism storyline, there are so many characters, I'm not sure who will emerge as my new favorite X-Men, but possible contenders include Legion, Velocidad, and Kitty Pryde.

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FadeToBlackBolt

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Edited By FadeToBlackBolt

I can't be bothered going into specifics, suffice it to say that I feel you're misjudging Cyclops. He's certainly not a jerk for one thing, and he's never been a lapdog. Here's a short breakdown of the character I wrote in another thread. But aside from that, yeh Beast is cool, even though he's being a sanctimonious and naive twit atm, but I'm willing to chock that up to bad writing.

Cyclops is my favourite Marvel character, edging out Spidey. His best writers, in my opinion, have been Grant Morrison, Joss Whedon and Warren Ellis.

Leadership:
All of the above understood what makes Scott great. Cyclops is crippled with self-doubt, this is evident in every decision he makes, that he's ever made. As was shown in Astonishing X-Men, and stated by Mike Carey in the interview above; Scott didn't choose or want to be leader. Charles made Scott leader, and why'd he do that? Because he had nothing else in his life. Hank was a genius, Warren was a rich super-hunk, Jean was an incredibly powerful goddess who Xavier favoured, even Bobby was a confident guy with a loving family. Scott was that weird kid, with no family, no friends and an "eye condition". Charles made him leader to give the kid something to work toward. What Xavier didn't realise at the time, was that Scott was learning and adapting. Cyclops has always questioned himself, and that turned into a constant internal questioning of everything around him. Naturally, this could be misconstrued as paranoia, but it became more of an awareness of the faults and strengths of those around him; which is why he's such an excellent tactictian. He was able to view Magneto's philosophy with the same open-mindedness that he did Xavier's, concluding that for mutants to survive, safety must come before integration; an idea that neither Charles or Erik subscribe to. Magneto views dominance as the only means of achieving a future for mutants, while Charles sees assimilation as the only chance. Scott's view lies somewhere in the middle, he doesn't wish to dominate, but he believes that humans should assimilate into mutant culture as well. And the best way to do that at the moment, is to make sure that mutants have a tomorrow, hence his Isolationist policy.

Personality:
Cyclops' power, as with a lot of mutants, is analogous to his personality. It's constantly in a state of pure uncontrollable destructive energy, that he's forced to control, channel and unleash at specific times. When Scott was with Jean, she enjoyed him being a quiet, duty-minded and idealistic individual who loved her, and little else. One of the reasons I dislike Jean Grey is that she was selfish. Scott Summers has struggled with self-esteem issues his entire life, and rather than try to help him, she flirts with Logan, and subconsiously encourages him to be more like Wolverine; which is something Scott can't do. Wolverine is a being who exists in a constant state of rage, who's able to calm it. Scott, on the other hand, can't calm it, he has to bottle it up. It Wolverine had Cyclops' personality, he'd have stabbed everyone by now, and similarly, if Cyclops had Logan's personality, he'd be a terrible leader, as he'd rule with his emotions rather than with pragmaticism. Scott doesn't do that, he effectively creates an ideal leader within himself, in what I believe is an attempt to make Professor X proud of him as a son. Xavier gave him this role, and Scott wants to fulfill it perfectly, which is why he is able to separate his humanity from his decisions. He creates, in himself, the reality and the human. He is completely pragmatic, and accomplishes this by closing himself off. Emma, when she started her relationship with Scott, understood this, and rather than ignore it, or ask him to unload all at once, she simply accepted this and loved him for it. Emma would ask how he was, and if he was bottled up, she would simply be there. Jean, however, would press the issue, which is something you can't do when Scott is in "Leader-Mode". His merger with Apocalypse very much caused him to see himself as a flawed human being, and embrace his human side, and in doing so, made him a stronger person. Effectively, rather than seeing attacks on his leadership as personal attacks, which he did formerly (like when he left after Storm became leader), he sees attacks on his leadership as attacks on his leadership. Fortunately though, this allows him to view the issue on its merits, and decide that he's right (which he is). Of course, constant challenges do chip away at him and because he's been in Leader Mode for so long, he hasn't been able to switch off. He hasn't been able to have dinner with Emma and watch a movie. The fact he barely acknowledged Kurt's and Cable's deaths was criticized by many (including myself) at first, but it was actually accurate. Scott can't break, for one second. He can't stop being the Leader.
He knows what he's doing is right and that if he breaks, mutantkind will break with him, it will collapse to Xavier's idealism, or be destroyed by Magneto's warmongering.

He is the Messiah of the Mutant race, not Hope.

12 years ago

Timandm

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Edited By Timandm

Beast is one of those characters that is hard not to like... He's fun, intelligent, caring, compassionate, and ferocious when necessary. Too many characters are a one trick pony, in that they're either a fighter, OR a scientist, OR a support character, but Beast is all of those things. The only time I can recall seeing him in a leadership position is with his science team... Unfortunately, he's quit the X-Men and is no longer working with that team...

And yes, he is still with his girlfriend Abigail Brand. I think she's a good match for him in that she's very different from him... Hopefully, during or after Schism, Beast will be back on one of the X-Men teams...

12 years ago

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Its because sometime around the Morrison era, X-Men editors decided that in the upcoming hard pressed financial approaching times, the best way to make X-Books a success was to do what all other comic books have been doing since for ever and make the white, male, character the protagonist, the leader, and focus, even though X-Books traditionally fostered success and popularity though character balance. Decades of creative tension were thrown away because to put cynically, they wanted a edgy, badass, Gary Sue character that readers could identify with and feel great about, because of all those cliche sayings about tough but unpopular decisions and being the only one who can do the job, and oh whoops just saved an entire mutant race of people who got popular for having such strong personalities and whoops, they lost their voices and now not only are X-Books, numbers down, because all books numbers are down, but relative to sales charts they are down as well. Hmmmn, I wonder why? Characters personalities and voices neutered because somehow the narrative of one ultimate Gary Sue leader is more interesting than all those other stories where other characters were written well. (actually as a narrative for an individual character, that's a pretty cool idea, but as a team book?) Of course this direction of X-Books hasn't failed too badly, because the numbers who buy comics make such a creative idea actually pretty logical. Of course for completely normal, and natural reasons, such figures in other comics are in abundance. I like Secret Avengers too, and balance has been restored in recent issues, but many issues teetered on being a Steve Rogers and the Secret Avengers book. X-Men books were robbed of their beautiful identity. Some average ideas with potential that ended up damning great characters.

SWORD was a great mini for Beast too if you have not read that. I found Astonishing pretty consistent in quality for both Beast and Cyclops, since it tended to ignore the more Gary Sue aspects of the character prevalent in other books.

12 years ago

Timandm

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@SC: Sooooo... You're saying??? You'd like to see a Cyclops series in which Cyclops is the main character and does most of the talking?

LOL!!!! But I have to ask what a "Gary Sue" character is... I have no idea...

12 years ago

B'Town

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Funny, I loved Cyclops when I was a kid too and now I don't care for him much at all. I hate that he had X-23 in X-Force. Even though I loved reading Laura in X-Force, a responsible leader would not have put such a young damaged girl on such a team. Beast, I have always loved and especially after S.W.O.R.D another book that I sorely miss, where his relationship with the strange yet intriguing Brand was a fun focus of the book, their banter frequently had me laughing.

I say MORE BEAST!

12 years ago

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@Timandm said:

@SC: Sooooo... You're saying??? You'd like to see a Cyclops series in which Cyclops is the main character and does most of the talking? LOL!!!! But I have to ask what a "Gary Sue" character is... I have no idea...

No, no, no, no lol I mean, in the narrative, it could be a very compelling story to have this young man, who has Cyclops personality and powers, and interacts with these two older and charismatic leaders who are opposed, and to watch him grow into his own, and unite a bunch of people who are going though a hell of a time trying to survive. Except not Cyclops. Plus not with the X-Men.

Marvel, and DC, they are shared Universes with 1000's of characters and potential protagonists. No singular character should be put ahead story wise in order to benefit. I mean, Punisher killing all the heroes is maybe interesting plot wise, but they do that sort of thing in alt realities. Or just look at indie books. Or just take any book, where a cast revolves around the main character. Cyclops like quite a few of the X-Men could be great solo protagonists and even more so if the preexisting X-Characters that exist were used as supporting characters for the sole purpose of aiding that character. Except your shooting yourself in the foot by using lots of popular characters as props. That's not a concern though if they were created to be props.

So I can understand the appeal of such narratives, just like if Superman was to turn into a racist, sexist, puppy killing baby eating psycho. Or if Spider-Man snapped and started using his intelligence as well as his powers to become this big time Marvel Universe villain but you know, I can understand if people were suitably pissed lol Plus this great uniter and redeemer and savior role, could be fulfilled by many. Imagine if a writer tried writing Toad as this guy who got sick and tired of being treated as a joke, and he stood up and ended up as a greater leader and inspiration than Captain America? You have a good enough writer and you have the greatest Marvel story ever told? lol but its Toad? Could be Storm, could be Emma, could be Wolverine. Your an old school X-Fan, can you remember when CC was playing around with the idea that Dani was as good a tactical leader as Cyclops? What if she got the upgrade and ended up as X-Men's greatest leader? Hell she has no powers now, a non mutant leading all mutants, successfully? Its a hell of a lot more original. If you have editorial dictating a bunch of writers like Fraction trying to sell something to you, well, what can you do? That's what plot over character writing gets you. Me I am a character first type comic fan. Tell good stories aimed at letting characterization of great characters shine though.

Gary Sue or Marty Sue is a play off Mary Sue. The term is developed to basically, essentially mean, a character within a story that's too perfect. Superman and Captain America can sort of be seen as Gary Sues. Cyclops can been seen one in the sense, that Magneto floats down and bows to him, and despite having an ego, and being successful many of times in leading greater numbers than what we have on Utopia still conceding Cyclops is teh greatest! Even though in one issue, the narrative will present to us, that Cyclops has the weight of the world on his shoulders in the next issue he is banging Emma (ended up being Maddy's psychic ghost mid mission just because you know? Real cool leaders who are trying to save the mutant race are so awesome and badass when they start banging teh chicks mid mission. Despite being on an island and gathering all eggs in one basket its still going to be by the narrative, sold as the greatest tactical move ever. Even if the character's more grey and ambiguous actions, or characteristics are present, ultimately if they are painted as the only alternative or used to demonstrate some great skill or tactical move etc its all contributing to making them this Gary Sue. This varies writer to writer and is less about a character thing though. Sometimes its about how you present other characters as well. Legacy and X-Force actually treated Cyclops and other character's pretty well. Uncanny made Cannonball a racist, and Emma the dumbest but prettiest cheer leader this side of Dallas.

12 years ago

madrid_san

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Edited By madrid_san

I love Cyclops. He is one of my absolute favorites in marvel. I admire how he changed over the years. here is an article from various x-writers analyzing his character and what he's all about. this should make the biggest Cyclops hater appeciate him atleast. I hope you see this FadetoBlackbolt and other Cyclops fans :) at work now so I will put my opinion later.

http://marvel.com/news/story/16136/the_x-perts_cyclops

12 years ago

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@B'Town said:

Beast, I have always loved and especially after S.W.O.R.D another book that I sorely miss, where his relationship with the strange yet intriguing Brand was a fun focus of the book, their banter frequently had me laughing.
I say MORE BEAST!

SWORD was very underrated. I loved how unashamedly light, bright and happy it was. I agree about the banter! I think Beast and Brand had great balance and chemistry and usually I think comics does relationships poorly, but here it was great.

12 years ago

B'Town

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@SC said:

@B'Town said:
Beast, I have always loved and especially after S.W.O.R.D another book that I sorely miss, where his relationship with the strange yet intriguing Brand was a fun focus of the book, their banter frequently had me laughing.
I say MORE BEAST!
SWORD was very underrated. I loved how unashamedly light, bright and happy it was. I agree about the banter! I think Beast and Brand had great balance and chemistry and usually I think comics does relationships poorly, but here it was great.

Wow great choice of words to describe S.W.O.R.D. Exactly why I loved it so much. I didn't know it was going to get cancelled and was truly sad when I found out I wasn't going to get another issue.

12 years ago

Timandm

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@SC: So I can understand the appeal of such narratives, just like if Superman was to turn into a racist, sexist, puppy killing baby eating psycho.

Sounds like a Frank Miller story.

Or if Spider-Man snapped and started using his intelligence as well as his powers

I thought I was the only one who wanted to see that... Isn't it amazing, ALL THESE YEARS and he's just NOW starting to think "Hey... HEY!!! I'm a GENIUS Scientist and Inventor... I could... um... Yeah, I could TOTALLY invent stuff to help me fight crime!!! it's almost TOO EASY... Why has no one ELSE in my universe ever thought to use their genius to invent things to fight crime with? Odd? I think I'll discuss this with Reed Richards and that asshat Tony Stark and see what they think.

Plus this great uniter and redeemer and savior role, could be fulfilled by many.

Maybe even someone with more personality, depth, dimension?

Dani was as good a tactical leader as Cyclops? What if she got the upgrade and ended up as X-Men's greatest leader?

WHAT? You mean they REALLY did that? I thought that was just some bad screwed up flash back from my college days.. DAMN. A GIRL in charge?   LOL!!!!
ACTUALLY, it seems they're FINALLY getting around to putting Dani back in her leadership role. Cyke just gave Sam's position to Dani and she's gotten right to work... Also, I don't know if you read the New Mutants still, but two issues back they're on a mission in which Wolverine is SUPPOSEDLY in charge, but Dani is shouting out orders and doing a much better job than Logan... I like the idea, but I want them to repower her and tell her to stop kissing Sam.... For some reason it's just grossing me out... Not that I'm against super heroes kissing, mind you... Just not Sam and Dani... for some reason it's just ewww... Like when Michael Jackson kissed Lisa Presley (Jackson)

Hell she has no powers now, a non mutant leading all mutants, successfully?
Like Storm did when she TOOK the leadership position from Scott. She did great, although I really did hate her whole punk-rock/Mohawk phase.

Tell good stories aimed at letting characterization of great characters shine though.
THAT is what makes or breaks a title or series in my opinion. Without the characterization what do you have but recycled stories full of cliches and colorfully dressed super heroes.

Magneto floats down and bows to him, and despite having an ego,
I'm trying to black that out of my memory... Maybe if we start a rumor that it happened in an alternate (warped) universe, others will believe it too...

Despite being on an island and gathering all eggs in one basket its still going to be by the narrative, sold as the greatest tactical move ever.
Yeah, still having trouble with that one... The whole, "Wow! We're being hunted to extinction and you've succeeded in putting us all in ONE LOCATION, with easy access from every direction, and nowhere to hide... General Tsu could learn a thing or two from you!   And where Asteroid M was destroyed five times, and Providence was blown to bits and sunk, this time it will work because the writers are behind you!"

Uncanny made Cannonball a racist, and Emma the dumbest but prettiest cheer leader this side of Dallas.
Yep... Cannonball who has led and put his hands in the life of a team containing a native American, Brazilian, Irish, Nova Roman (Whatever Amara is, and an Alien from a different planet...... Fighting for a people who are hated because they are different.... becomes a RACIST... Yeah, I can so totally see that.

And Emma as a Cheerleader? Well sure, in the fantasies of a BUNCH of men.. and women....

I actually get what you're saying... At least, I think I do... Especially making Scott out to be a "Gary Sue." I almost puked when I read Wolverine complimenting Cyclops for "being able to make the hard decisions" after that really GREAT (ralph!!!) curse of the mutant arc where cyclops had Dr. Nemesis secretly inject Wolverine with nanobots that TURNED OFF HIS HEALING FACTOR.... (fortunately the writers ignored the whole adamantium poisoning leading to Logan's death thing) I remember thinking, "Why is LOGAN of all people sucking up to Cyclops?" But it falls in line with what you're saying.
-Scott makes the HARD decisions no one else can
-Scott is a BRILLIANT tactician (Who'd have thought to put all the targets in ONE LOCATION with easy access...)
-Scott is so powerful, forceful, and has such a commanding presence (Even Magneto kneels before him)
- Scott DESERVES this medal of honor that really came from Captain America....

They're FORCING it down our throats.. (Although, I keep reading it... Call me a masochist)

Soooo... How do we take back control of the X-Men? (as if we ever had control, but you know what I mean)

12 years ago

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@Timandm: Great thoughts/statements, I'll just touch on a few things I wanted to comment on, but I read everything you said, and appreciate your views.

Dani kissing Sam freaks me out too. Ugh, we don't need every book to have an inter team relationship! I don't see Beta Ray Bill and Ronan making out in Annihilators! I have noticed most other fans, at least most of the ones who know both characters well having similar reactions, so here's hoping that plot and idea ends soon... at least before any kids show up (from the future even though Moonballs is the best superhero name ever!)

Character strong books aren't as easy to get into when you have catchy and flashy plots, but character strong writing can be far more rewarding. Its unfortunate that in these hard times money wise for comics, guys like PAD, Dan Slott, and Ellis are stuck in good but low selling books (well Slott has Spidey I guess) but we have big events and the direction of Marvel written by Bendis/Fraction type writers, who have selling points and good stories... out of continuity.

Now that Marvel views Magneto as potentially bringing in a lot of money because of the movies (sort of like how they started seeing dollar signs where Cyclops stands after Morrison made them realize he had potential) maybe they might Magneto back on his feet again.

Yes well, free, white and 21 Yessir! (just to clarify for people, that's what Sam said to a black bouncer when asked for his ID 0_0)

Yes that's pretty much it. Oh, and Pixie crushing on Cyclops. Also one of the Cuckoos as well. When you start to use the teenage female characters start trying to get into the pants of a character, chances are, your building him up to be a Gary Sue.

I think a backlash will sort of start with Schism, except it might just be more of the same but with Wolverine added in. Its not really fair either if Cyclops has to pay for essentially Matt Fractions sins. Then we have Children's Crusade confusing things. Jean has to return sooner or later. Confusing times. I do believe Gillen is a pro character writer. So I am keen to see how he writes more characters.

12 years ago

Timandm

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@SC: I don't see Beta Ray Bill and Ronan making out in Annihilators!
Congratulations on taking gross to a whole new level...

from the future even though Moonballs is the best superhero name ever
LOL! I was eating as I read that and almost choked on my food! Deadpool would certainly love it... He Liked Sam when he thought Sam's codename was Cannonballs.

Yes well, free, white and 21 Yessir!
I remember reading that and thinking "WTF?" even before the next panel where the bartender 'enlightens' Sam... I loved that whole, "My grandmother might have been a racist thing."

It was like the kid in "Clerks II" who had no idea that the term 'Porch Monkey' was racist and later says, "You know, my grandmother MIGHT have been a racist."

When you start to use the teenage female characters start trying to get into the pants of a character,
Okay, new rule. NEVER EVER EVER again talk about anyone getting into Scott's pants, unless it's like Prodigy borrowing something clean to wear... and then, not even then....

I think a backlash will sort of start with Schism, except it might just be more of the same but with Wolverine added in. Its not really fair either if Cyclops has to pay for essentially Matt Fractions sins. Then we have Children's Crusade confusing things. Jean has to return sooner or later. Confusing times. I do believe Gillen is a pro character writer. So I am keen to see how he writes more characters.

Is there really ANY ONE PERSON in charge of the X-Men's titles? If we could have at least one person, leading things in a coherent direction....
As for Jean coming back... I think that's what this whole Schism thing is really about... It might not be a key element to the story, it might not even be all that important to the story, but I think THAT'S the real objective of even having Schism....

Jean comes back... Scott and Logan fight about it... Everyone get's involved... Emma get's pissed out of Jealousy (and who could blame her) and leaves Scott...
And Scott comes out looking bad no matter what...

12 years ago

djotaku

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Edited By djotaku

@FadeToBlackBolt: well, you've certainly made some great points there. I can't say that you've swayed me, but I do think it's neat you put so much thought into it.

@Timandm said:

Beast is one of those characters that is hard not to like... He's fun, intelligent, caring, compassionate, and ferocious when necessary. Too many characters are a one trick pony, in that they're either a fighter, OR a scientist, OR a support character, but Beast is all of those things. The only time I can recall seeing him in a leadership position is with his science team... Unfortunately, he's quit the X-Men and is no longer working with that team... And yes, he is still with his girlfriend Abigail Brand. I think she's a good match for him in that she's very different from him... Hopefully, during or after Schism, Beast will be back on one of the X-Men teams...

I agree with all that and I really do hope they bring him back. It's been fun seeing him in the Astonishing Arc that's kinda like the Alien movie

12 years ago

djotaku

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@SC said:

Its because sometime around the Morrison era, X-Men editors decided that in the upcoming hard pressed financial approaching times, the best way to make X-Books a success was to do what all other comic books have been doing since for ever and make the white, male, character the protagonist, the leader, and focus, even though X-Books traditionally fostered success and popularity though character balance. Decades of creative tension were thrown away because to put cynically, they wanted a edgy, badass, Gary Sue character that readers could identify with and feel great about, because of all those cliche sayings about tough but unpopular decisions and being the only one who can do the job, and oh whoops just saved an entire mutant race of people who got popular for having such strong personalities and whoops, they lost their voices and now not only are X-Books, numbers down, because all books numbers are down, but relative to sales charts they are down as well. Hmmmn, I wonder why? Characters personalities and voices neutered because somehow the narrative of one ultimate Gary Sue leader is more interesting than all those other stories where other characters were written well. (actually as a narrative for an individual character, that's a pretty cool idea, but as a team book?) Of course this direction of X-Books hasn't failed too badly, because the numbers who buy comics make such a creative idea actually pretty logical. Of course for completely normal, and natural reasons, such figures in other comics are in abundance. I like Secret Avengers too, and balance has been restored in recent issues, but many issues teetered on being a Steve Rogers and the Secret Avengers book. X-Men books were robbed of their beautiful identity. Some average ideas with potential that ended up damning great characters. SWORD was a great mini for Beast too if you have not read that. I found Astonishing pretty consistent in quality for both Beast and Cyclops, since it tended to ignore the more Gary Sue aspects of the character prevalent in other books.

I'm not sure I agree 100% - after all, other than a stint with Storm as the team lead, Cyke has always been the leader. And Xavier had been, for a long time, the real leader and he was also a white dude.

But I think your other points are quite salient. The books moved to focus on him a bit more and suffered a bit for that. And I think that, even though I hate that there are SO MANY X-books to collect, that's the nice thing about them. X-Men: Legacy is focusing more on Rogue and Prof and Legion and some of the other characters that have been ignored for a while. In fact, I don't remember Rogue or Gambit in New or Astonishing X-Men. (It's possible they were in a background shot I missed) And, perhaps, when the team splits up after Schism, it'll allow for better focus on the members of the two teams.

12 years ago

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@djotaku: Team leader. Well, tactical leader even. Always that, sorry, I tried to distinguish a difference. Not leader of the entire mutant race. Huge difference yeah? Then I think you misunderstand my other point by quite a margin. Xavier wasn't selected to his part in X-Men. Xavier was created for that position and that position created for him. Despite that however, Xavier and Cyclops stand side by side, one in a wheel chair with no hair and past his middle age and the other one not... your not going to tell me there aren't any differences are you? I mean, Captain Marvel and Monica Rambeau both have two arms and two legs? Then, the focus on Xavier was never the overriding plot, in fact Xavier generally got less panel time, for obvious reasons. So I am not exactly sure where your coming from, as far as addressing my points? I'm totally fine with clarifying my stance, opinions and views more?

Its a few things beyond just the focus. It wasn't done well either. Cyclops has been made the focus in a few plots in recent years, done well it can be like a lot of the other times individual characters were made the focus. A lot of the focus dealing with Cyclops were bad and franchise spread. Schism almost definitely will mean better team balance. Its like the most surefire way to boost sales numbers.

12 years ago

madrid_san

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When Kieron Gillen was asked

For years Scott Summers was held back by insecurity and self-doubt—how did he overcome it? Is it still there beneath the surface?

Practice, I dare say. He's had to deal with it because if he didn't, he wouldn't be able to do his job—and not being able to do his job right is the thing that haunts Scott. In fact, he's ended up using self-doubt and insecurity as a fuel. Look at how Scott plans and worries; his plans are so thought out because he can't and won't let it go. Fear that he may be wrong makes Scott make sure that he rarely is. Using your negative traits for fuel strikes me as an X-Men-y thing.

I love this answer especially the underlined text :) Everyone has good points on here BTW :)

Catch the rest of the interview on Marvel.com: http://marvel.com/news/story/16136/the_x-perts_cyclops#ixzz1RWHFVI42

12 years ago

djotaku

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@B'Town: @SC: With all these recommendations and given that I love Beast, I'll have to check out this SWORD mini-series. It sounds pretty great.

@SC said:

@djotaku: Team leader. Well, tactical leader even. Always that, sorry, I tried to distinguish a difference. Not leader of the entire mutant race. Huge difference yeah? Then I think you misunderstand my other point by quite a margin. Xavier wasn't selected to his part in X-Men. Xavier was created for that position and that position created for him. Despite that however, Xavier and Cyclops stand side by side, one in a wheel chair with no hair and past his middle age and the other one not... your not going to tell me there aren't any differences are you? I mean, Captain Marvel and Monica Rambeau both have two arms and two legs? Then, the focus on Xavier was never the overriding plot, in fact Xavier generally got less panel time, for obvious reasons. So I am not exactly sure where your coming from, as far as addressing my points? I'm totally fine with clarifying my stance, opinions and views more? Its a few things beyond just the focus. It wasn't done well either. Cyclops has been made the focus in a few plots in recent years, done well it can be like a lot of the other times individual characters were made the focus. A lot of the focus dealing with Cyclops were bad and franchise spread. Schism almost definitely will mean better team balance. Its like the most surefire way to boost sales numbers.

I guess what I was saying is that you said they made him the leader in the Morrison era but wasn't he always the leader? I agreed with you on everything other than that point.

@madrid_san said:

When Kieron Gillen was asked
For years Scott Summers was held back by insecurity and self-doubt—how did he overcome it? Is it still there beneath the surface?
Practice, I dare say. He's had to deal with it because if he didn't, he wouldn't be able to do his job—and not being able to do his job right is the thing that haunts Scott. In fact, he's ended up using self-doubt and insecurity as a fuel. Look at how Scott plans and worries; his plans are so thought out because he can't and won't let it go. Fear that he may be wrong makes Scott make sure that he rarely is. Using your negative traits for fuel strikes me as an X-Men-y thing.

I love this answer especially the underlined text :) Everyone has good points on here BTW :)

Catch the rest of the interview on Marvel.com: http://marvel.com/news/story/16136/the_x-perts_cyclops#ixzz1RWHFVI42

Supposedly he dealt with this in Astonishing when Emma used it to allow him to not have to wear glasses and be able to control his optic blasts for the first time (or maybe there was another first time?) without any equipment. It becomes a huge plot point in that series. And that does seem to be the turning point where he's no longer scared of killing others if it means mutants or most mutants can live to see another day. (As he decided in the Kenji Generation Hope issue)

12 years ago

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@djotaku said:

I guess what I was saying is that you said they made him the leader in the Morrison era but wasn't he always the leader? I agreed with you on everything other than that point.

SWORD is great, and should be some previews online. Art was jarring for some.

Oh, and with what I was saying... more like, Grant Morrison, the writer, he was interested in writing Cyclops. Cyclops has always been a mainstay of X-Books, but he wasn't this big and huge popular character of the X-Franchise, not comparatively no. What Grant Morrison done was make the character more popular than ever before and demonstrated his potential. So basically and the X-Editors of a few years ago actually discussed this in a CBR interview (or maybe IGN) that they wanted to make Cyclops this huge character, not just in X-Books, but Marvel. This whole idea that in connection with Decimation Cyclops would be the biggest X-Character. Eh, to me, you don't try to force such popularity, and that the methods employed to make a already interesting character more popular? Has not been worth it. I'm not a huge Wolverine fan, at least I can see his initial rise in popularity was organic. So after Morrison, after retconning Xavier because they needed reasons to cast him as this flawed figure that suddenly needed redemption, after M-Day and a bunch of other things, a whole bunch ofd X-Characters lost their voices and Cyclops became creatively a Gary Sue leader. Not a leader in his usual sense of the term. What issue in 1990 had an X-Team with 200 plus characters on it? lol I am saying in the POST Morrison era they made Cyclops King/President. (Leader) I use those words tongue in check, but I don't mean leader in the usual sense he was a leader for 30 plus years. Or you read Secret Avengers, well try comparing Steve Rogers old station compared to his new station. He has far more power now, doesn't mean he wasn't a leader before. Huge difference in authority and station though.

12 years ago

djotaku

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@SC said:

SWORD is great, and should be some previews online. Art was jarring for some. Oh, and with what I was saying... more like, Grant Morrison, the writer, he was interested in writing Cyclops. Cyclops has always been a mainstay of X-Books, but he wasn't this big and huge popular character of the X-Franchise, not comparatively no. What Grant Morrison done was make the character more popular than ever before and demonstrated his potential. So basically and the X-Editors of a few years ago actually discussed this in a CBR interview (or maybe IGN) that they wanted to make Cyclops this huge character, not just in X-Books, but Marvel. This whole idea that in connection with Decimation Cyclops would be the biggest X-Character. Eh, to me, you don't try to force such popularity, and that the methods employed to make a already interesting character more popular? Has not been worth it. I'm not a huge Wolverine fan, at least I can see his initial rise in popularity was organic. So after Morrison, after retconning Xavier because they needed reasons to cast him as this flawed figure that suddenly needed redemption, after M-Day and a bunch of other things, a whole bunch ofd X-Characters lost their voices and Cyclops became creatively a Gary Sue leader. Not a leader in his usual sense of the term. What issue in 1990 had an X-Team with 200 plus characters on it? lol I am saying in the POST Morrison era they made Cyclops King/President. (Leader) I use those words tongue in check, but I don't mean leader in the usual sense he was a leader for 30 plus years. Or you read Secret Avengers, well try comparing Steve Rogers old station compared to his new station. He has far more power now, doesn't mean he wasn't a leader before. Huge difference in authority and station though.

I see what you mean now. Yeah, the book did take a more Scott-centric role during Morrison. Also, as to your leader comment - there's been a bit or snark here and there about that from different mutants on Utopia. I like that it's not all rainbows and unicorns.

While I did mention in some of my reviews that it seems as though they were going out of their way to push Xavier as a flawed man in New X-Men and beyond, I wouldn't say this is TOO much of a retcon. Remember Onslaught? And within the Onslaught story they had already begun that process. I think sometimes they've gone a bit too far, but I do like it in general because Prof X was way too much of a Marty Stu before.

12 years ago

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@djotaku: Cool, cool, yep, that's it! lol I finally managed to make sense lol *smile* Oh yeah, and i agree about Xavier. I mean, good a bit, but also almost too far. He sort of had some genuinely bad moments he could draw on, but getting kids killed and lying about it? Lying about Cyclops brother? Narrative and creative aspects here paint different pictures.

12 years ago

Timandm

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@djotaku said:

@FadeToBlackBolt: well, you've certainly made some great points there. I can't say that you've swayed me, but I do think it's neat you put so much thought into it.

@Timandm said:
Beast is one of those characters that is hard not to like... He's fun, intelligent, caring, compassionate, and ferocious when necessary. Too many characters are a one trick pony, in that they're either a fighter, OR a scientist, OR a support character, but Beast is all of those things. The only time I can recall seeing him in a leadership position is with his science team... Unfortunately, he's quit the X-Men and is no longer working with that team... And yes, he is still with his girlfriend Abigail Brand. I think she's a good match for him in that she's very different from him... Hopefully, during or after Schism, Beast will be back on one of the X-Men teams...
I agree with all that and I really do hope they bring him back. It's been fun seeing him in the Astonishing Arc that's kinda like the Alien movie

I just had a thought... No really... I DID! LOL! Anyway...

I'm not a big fan of space teams (teams that have adventures throughout the universe), But I think I'd LOVE to see a team with Beast, Abigail Brand, Lockheed and whoever else journeying through space on adventures to protect earth...

12 years ago

djotaku

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Edited By djotaku

@Timandm said:

@djotaku said:
@FadeToBlackBolt: well, you've certainly made some great points there. I can't say that you've swayed me, but I do think it's neat you put so much thought into it.

@Timandm said:
Beast is one of those characters that is hard not to like... He's fun, intelligent, caring, compassionate, and ferocious when necessary. Too many characters are a one trick pony, in that they're either a fighter, OR a scientist, OR a support character, but Beast is all of those things. The only time I can recall seeing him in a leadership position is with his science team... Unfortunately, he's quit the X-Men and is no longer working with that team... And yes, he is still with his girlfriend Abigail Brand. I think she's a good match for him in that she's very different from him... Hopefully, during or after Schism, Beast will be back on one of the X-Men teams...
I agree with all that and I really do hope they bring him back. It's been fun seeing him in the Astonishing Arc that's kinda like the Alien movie
I just had a thought... No really... I DID! LOL! Anyway... I'm not a big fan of space teams (teams that have adventures throughout the universe), But I think I'd LOVE to see a team with Beast, Abigail Brand, Lockheed and whoever else journeying through space on adventures to protect earth...

I'd definitely add that to my pull list!

12 years ago

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djotaku

The 1000th comic in my comics database: Krampus #2

Going from Loving Cyclops to Loving Beast

By djotaku July 7, 2011 22 Comments