This blog is the first in a new series I intend to write to clarify different aspects from the Star Wars universe which I think are misinterpreted across Comic Vine. The idea is loosely based on Silver’s famous blog series and I want to thank him for that but it’s not my intention to duplicate or steal anything Silver has written in the past.

This thread covers one of the major fight scenes in Star Wars: The Force Awakens, namely Kylo Ren vs Finn & Rey. Comments like “Kylo was injured by an average Stormtrooper” or “Kylo was defeated by an untrained Force-sensitive” have me believe that this fight is wrongly perceived among numerous Comic Vine members and this blog will hopefully correct a lot of misunderstandings.

There will be a distinction between two parts of the fight, Kylo Ren vs Finn (part 1) and Kylo Ren vs Rey (part 2).

Part 1: Kylo Ren vs Finn

Many members have asked how it was possible that Kylo Ren was so strained in his fight against a Stormtrooper (Finn), who has never been trained in the art of lightsaber combat.

To explain this we’ll first take a look at the entire fight as depicted by The Force Awakens novelization and junior novelization (the important parts are underlined).

“Drawing himself up, a towering figure in the snow, Ren did not even bother to gesture. “I’m going to kill you for it.” He rushed forward. Despite his feat, Finn raised the beam to defend himself. Ren lunged, struck—Finn parried. Shards of light flew, illuminating the snow and the surrounding vegetation. Drawing back slightly, Ren considered his unexpectedly determined opponent, then resumed his assault with a vengeance.

Finn blocked him again and again, once letting the other man’s beam slide against his own and harmlessly off to one side. He counterattacked, to no avail. The longer the contest continued, the stronger Ren seemed to become. It was as if he was enjoying the challenge. Feeding upon it.

At least, it appeared so until Finn parried, swung, and unexpectedly stabbed, the tip of his lightsaber beam grazing Ren’s arm. That made it more than a challenge. Taking a step back, Ren reconsidered his opponent. When he closed the distance between them anew, it was with a purpose that had been previously lacking. Expecting an execution, he had found a contest. Now he had been touched. It was time for play to end.

Advancing relentlessly, he was driven by something that Finn could not even sense, far less counter. Still the ex-trooper fought back, until Ren landed a blow that cut across Finn’s chest and sent the lightsaber flying from his hand. It landed in the snow six meters distant. It was over.”

Taken from The Force Awakens novelization

“Finn blocked and parried the first flurry of Ren’s attacks. Ground snow melted as the tips of their blades swooshed low. Finn could not find an opening in Ren’s defenses, despite the man’s injury. Ren drove Finn back, seeming to draw strength from Finn’s frustration. Training had taught Finn to bait an opponent into thinking he had the advantage. Finn parried weakly, then disengaged and stabbed. His blade sheared Ren’s arm. It didn’t do much more than sizzle his opponent’s skin. But Ren backpedalled, reassessing Finn.

Holding the blue blade in front of him, Finn stared at Kylo Ren, ready for anything. But he was not ready for the fury of the attack Ren launched at him. It was if the previous back and forth had been child’s play. Ren’s swings flew at Finn fast and strong, pushing him back. Ren’s blade gashed open Finn’s chest.”

Taken from The Force Awakens junior novelization

We can conclude from this that:

• Kylo Ren was toying with Finn and still had the edge in the fight.
• The moment Kylo decided to end things, Finn was directly defeated.
• Kylo Ren was severely injured during the fight (this will be explained in the following part of the text).

Furthermore Finn isn’t just your average Stormtrooper, he has been praised as being a formidable fighter and being amongst the best of the First Order Stormtroopers, who are trained to combat Jedi.

“Despite lack of any training with a lightsaber, Finn was athletic and courageous. In tandem with such traits, the saber made him a formidable fighter.”

Taken from The Force Awakens novelization

“FN-2187 (Finn) was in the top 1% of all Stormtroopers in his abilities. He is commended by Captain Phasma as exemplary. Hux notices that he has a “dangerous level of empathy” because he helps his fellow Stormtroopers.”

Taken from Before The Awakening (Credit to RogueShadow)

We also find another example of Finn’s combat prowess in the novel, Before The Awakening, where Finn defeats every other cadet in melee combat, only losing because he wasn’t focused on the fight.

Note: For more information on Finn, take a look at WollfMyth209's respect thread of him.

In addition to this, Kylo Ren was also hindered to a serious degree.

• He was shot by Chewbacca’s bowcaster that has sent First Order Stormtroopers flying and shattered stone.

“Amid the rising bedlam and confusion, Kylo Ren struggled to stand.”

Taken from The Force Awakens novelization

“Before she could fire, Ren raised a hand, halting her. She strained against him, her anger giving her strength. But she couldn’t fire. He was struggling also, against her newly discovered ability, as well as the wound inflicted by Chewbacca’s bowcaster.”

Taken from The Force Awakens novelization

“Chewbacca’s quarrel had burned a hole through his robes and shattered the armor around his torso. From the looks of it, he was wounded badly.”

Taken from The Force Awakens junior novelization

“The hilt wobbled in the snow. Pulling it through the Force proved more strenuous than it should. The pain of Ren’s wound clouded his concentration.”

Taken from The Force Awakens junior novelization

• He was mentally hindered.

“Stunned by his own action, Kylo Ren fell to his knees. Following through on the act ought to have made him stronger, a part of him believed. Instead, he found himself weakened.”

Taken from The Force Awakens novelization

In the end there is only one person who was going to win this fight, Kylo Ren. Stating that Finn could have actually had any chance to pose a serious threat to Kylo is going against all evidence we have from the fight (the novelization, junior novelization and the movie itself). Finn did however land a hit on Kylo which is no doubt an impressive feat even when considering that it barely scratched the flesh. Yet that despite his massive hindrance (mental trauma, wounded by Chewbacca’s bowcaster) Kylo still practically beat Finn in a near stomp the moment he decided that it was over just shows that there never was a real possibility that Finn was going to defeat Kylo nor pose a serious threat to him.

Part 2: Kylo Ren vs Rey

Next we have the second part of the fight, Kylo Ren vs Rey, which suffers from the same misunderstandings addressed in the first part of this blog.

Again, we’ll be looking at the fight as depicted by the novelization and junior novelization of The Force Awakens (the important parts are underlined).

“But she had no time to ponder his comment, nor was she inclined to do so anyway; she was to consumed with rage. Holding the haft of the lightsaber in both hands, she ignited the beam—and charged.

Ren met her with his own weapon alight. Expecting weakness, he encountered only strength. Her skill with the device was raw at best, but it was backed by a fury that was as new to his experience as it was unexpected.

When the beams of their lightsabers crossed, the resulting burst of energy lit an entire section of forest.

…

To an observer at a distance, it would have appeared as if a series of small explosions was going off in the depths of the forest. Blow after blow landed as lightsaber struck against lightsaber. Though Ren was bigger and stronger than Rey, their struggle had nothing to do with physical size. What she lacked in mass, she made up for in ferocity.

For a while she actually drove him backward, until he regained his self-assurance and in turn pressed her. The fight continued to shift back and forth; first he gained the advantage, then an enraged Rey took it back.

There was a vast rumbling, as of a continent sighing, and a gigantic chunk of forest behind Rey simply collapsed downward, leaving her fighting on the edge of a cliff so high that the newly formed surface below could not be seen through the rising cloud of dust.

Ren held his lightsaber, poised to strike. “I could kill you right now. But there is another way.”

Breathing hard, Rey looked up in disgust at the man looming above her. “You’re a monster.”

“No. You need a teacher.” He was beseeching and insistent all at once. “I can show you the ways of the Force!”

Slowly she shook her head. “The Force?” That was what this was about? Instead of moving to defend herself, Rey closed her eyes. Ren hesitated, confused by her actions. A long moment passed, in which Ren sensed a change in the air, a change in her. Then she opened her eyes and attacked, viciously, in a way she didn’t know she was capable of, striking again and again as Ren was slowly driven back. The flaring energy from the interacting lightsabers was more pronounced than ever in the flurry of her attack. And—Ren went down.

He was up again in an instant, but not in time to fully deflect a following blow from Rey’s weapon. He succeeded in blocking it, but he still took the full force of the strike against the haft of his own lightsaber. The weapon went flying into the snow, he raised a hand and utilized the Force to fend off one slashing blow after another, until finally her fury penetrated his remaining defenses.”

Taken from The Force Awakens novelization

“Her surprise shifted to anger. Ren could feel it, like waves of heat radiating off of her. She wanted to strike back at him for what he had done to her friends. He stood there, daring her to do so with his stare.

The girl switched on the lightsaber and rushed him.

Ren ignited his own blade and parried her attack. He countered; she blocked, then went in for another attack. While her sword strokes were unpolished, it was clear she knew how to fight with hand-to-hand weapons. Her blade smashed against his, over and over, never buckling, at times forcing him back.

She was also angry. She drew her power from the same well as Ren—her rage. And that would be the weakness he would use to defeat her. Kylo Ren had more rage than she would ever know. He lashed out with his ligthsaber, chopping and slicing. She deflected him but could not sustain her defense without stepping back. And back. And back.

A giant fissure opened in the ground and swallowed most of it. Dust billowed out. Within seconds, Rey was standing at the edge of a cliff. She had no more ground to lose.

Ren pointed his lightsaber at her. “I could kill you, right now. But there is another way.” Rey snarled at him. “You’re a monster.”

“No. You need a teacher,” he said. “I can show you the ways of the Force!”

“The Force?” she repeated, sounding confused and exasperated all at once. She closed her eyes for a moment, then lunged at Ren again, more furious then before. And for once, Kylo Ren duelled an opponent who had more anger than he. Or maybe what fuelled her wasn’t anger. Maybe it was an emotion he didn’t recognize anymore. Whatever it was, it took him down.

Staggering back to his feet, his parry could not match the strength of her swing. It cast his lightsaber out of his grasp.”

Taken from The Force Awakens junior novelization

We can also draw some conclusions from this.

• Rey was fuelled by her anger.
• Kylo Ren was driving Rey back until she experienced her ‘in the Force moment’.

As pointed out earlier in this thread, Kylo Ren was at a disadvantage because of several reasons.

• He was shot by Chewbacca’s bowcaster that has sent First Order Stormtroopers flying and shattered stone.

“Amid the rising bedlam and confusion, Kylo Ren struggled to stand.”

Taken from The Force Awakens novelization

“Before she could fire, Ren raised a hand, halting her. She strained against him, her anger giving her strength. But she couldn’t fire. He was struggling also, against her newly discovered ability, as well as the wound inflicted by Chewbacca’s bowcaster.”

Taken from The Force Awakens novelization

“Chewbacca’s quarrel had burned a hole through his robes and shattered the armor around his torso. From the looks of it, he was wounded badly.”

Taken from The Force Awakens junior novelization

“The hilt wobbled in the snow. Pulling it through the Force proved more strenuous than it should. The pain of Ren’s wound clouded his concentration.”

Taken from The Force Awakens junior novelization

• He was mentally hindered.

“Stunned by his own action, Kylo Ren fell to his knees. Following through on the act ought to have made him stronger, a part of him believed. Instead, he found himself weakened.”

Taken from The Force Awakens novelization

One of the other misunderstandings that I have crossed paths with is that Rey is completely untrained, which again supplements to the question how Rey could have ever beaten Kylo in a lightsaber duel. Yet there are several quotes in the Visual Dictionary and the junior novelization of The Force Awakens who prove the exact opposite of these claims, Rey is actually a skilled melee combatant prior to engaging Kylo.

The Visual Dictionary depicts that Rey has perfected certain quarterstaff sequences and that those skills translate well into the use of melee weapons (like a lightsaber for example).

Kylo mentions that despite that Rey’s technique is unpolished, she clearly knows how to use melee weapons.

“He countered; she blocked, then went in for another attack. While her sword strokes were unpolished, it was clear that she knew how to fight with hand-to-hand weapons.”

Taken from The Force Awakens junior novelization

Besides her already considerable combat prowess, Rey was also fuelled by her anger which strengthened her.

“But she had no time to ponder his comment, nor was she inclined to do so anyway; she was to consumed with rage. Holding the haft of the lightsaber in both hands, she ignited the beam—and charged.

Ren met her with his own weapon alight. Expecting weakness, he encountered only strength. Her skill with the device was raw at best, but it was backed by a fury that was as new to his experience as it was unexpected.”

Taken from The Force Awakens novelization

“Before she could fire, Ren raised a hand, halting her. She strained against him, her anger giving her strength. But she couldn’t fire.”

Taken from The Force Awakens novelization

Now we can draw conclusions similar to part 1, we see that Rey is, like Finn, a skilled combatant (perhaps even to a greater degree than Finn) and was aided by circumstantial factors (e.g. her anger giving her strength). Next there is the fact that Kylo Ren is severely injured (e.g. Chewbacca’s bowcaster) and considering that his fight with Rey happened after his fight with Finn, his injuries logically should have worsened over time. Despite these factors the fight was still relatively even, although some sources (TFA junior novelization) claim Kylo had the edge in the duel, and it wasn’t until that Rey discovered her “channel the Force” moment that she actually defeated him.

Conclusion

If we take everything into account I think it’s safe to say that this fight shouldn’t be used in a negative context when discussing Kylo Ren because there are tons of circumstances that influence the fight heavily. From him being injured to the point that he could barely stand to the fact that both Finn and Rey are actually skilled fighters. In the case of Rey for example, we have seen numerous examples of characters (Luke, Savage,…) who without an extensive amount of training became skilled combatants because of the immense potential they possess and Rey surely ranks among them in terms of raw power.

I can personally understand that the movie content of the fight wasn’t a 100% clear and that because of it, a lot of misunderstandings have occurred. I hope this blog was useful and I want to remind everyone that this is just my opinion, which I tried to support with feats and facts, and that it should never be used as a fact nor ever treated as one.

Next blog: Clarification II: Kylo Ren's training and knowledge in The Force Awakens