@jhazzroucher: And it's why I went nuts when the deal was confirmed. I don't want to see movies bring my favourite X-stories onto the big screen, I want my favourite X-characters being given good stories and films so that people can fall in love with the characters that I have.
DaSalvadore's forum posts
Going back to her og body makes sense from a character perspective (and technically would have been something Betsy should have tried years ago). But she was pretty much unique among telepaths in the beginning by her power being an "always on" radar type thing. If I remember rightly, it basically meant she constantly picked up people's thoughts regardless of whether she was actively trying to read them or not compared to everyone else only getting surface stuff if it was mentally 'shouted.'
Is this still a thing with her or something that's been thrown aside because no one remembered it?
Let's break this down without hyperbole
She reacts to bullets/Can Bullet-time/has super-speed - Well yes, but does she naturally use this speed or is it mostly reactionary. It looks far more like it's a reactionary speed-up if she needs it rather than what she would naturally fight at. Superman can somewhat match the Flash in speed but it's not his normal run/fly speed. I naturally walk a 4mph, my friend is more 6mph. I can match my friend but that doesn't mean I'll automatically walk 6mph if I'm walking with someone else.
She can decapitate Hela - But is this Diana's go-to attack? Does she immediately look to behead anyone aside from Parademons or is it once again situational? If so, you can't say she'd immediately look to behead Hela in the fight the first time they get in close quarters. What you can say is she'd try decapitation if/once chest stabs don't work and hasn't been stopped/killed after that.
She dies to decapitation/She doesn't die to decapitation - Which seems to be almost the only point being thrown for the Hela loss. Rewatching Ragnarok, it looks to me that Hela has instantaenous healing as long as Asgard stands. This means that if you stab her, where the blade used to be has already healed as it's being pulled out of her body. If this is true then her neck would heal as the sword is slicing through the neck.
She can have her limbs cut off - Similar to the above but also brings back the question from Diana's list. Is Diana going to immediately go for amputation/go for it before Hela gets blade spammy?
The way I see it is that Diana doesn't fight in super-speed mode. It's a little tricky because of the DCEU's obsession with creative cinematography and slow-mo binging but I would say she's far more a reactionary speed fighter than anything else. Hela can spam spikes/weapons from everywhere, including from behind Diana, which means WW needs to be hyper aware all the time or will get tagged. Close quarters then comes down to if "Hela can't die unless Asgard is destroyed" is an absolute or not. If it is, then we can theorise that even if beheading does work, it won't keep Hela dead. If it's more a "Asgard supercharges Hela's powers" thing then we're back to if decapitation is a thing.
And this is why I say Hela wins. There are too many areas which need to boost Diana (always moving at full speed) or weakening the Hela plot (can be stopped even without Asgard being destroyed, tanks bladed attacks but can still be beheaded) for it to be a clean Diana win.
It's simply more logical for Hela to win.
There are a few problems with the DP saga being solely about Jean going bad. To start with, the twisting of Jean comes through psychic manipulations from Mastermind with the very last straw being the "death" of Cyclops tipping Jean over the edge. So right then and there you have to throw out any misconceptions over the original Phoenix being nothing more than Jean's dark alter-ego. This isn't X-3 territory where Jean potentially could switch psycho-bitch if pushed in the wrong way. This is a systematic psychological breakdown of a woman who has vast psionic powers.
The second problem is not actually the eating of the star but rather what happens after that. The Shi'ar do not get involved because the star was eaten and a planet's population were killed, they get involved because of the phoenix form that mentally-damaged Jean makes. The Space Avian-Romans are not coming to Earth to kill an out of control mutant, they're coming to kill "the Phoenix."
@DevilMayehm666: Apples and Oranges when it comes to animation vs live action even if it is the same team. Sure, it might be somewhat similar but there's never any guarentee due to the different working/creation frameworks involved in the two industries.
@dasalvadore: Originallly X3 was going to be about Emma Frost manipulating Jean but the studio stepped in and thought the themes of Dark Phoenix were too dark for a general audience. Interviews suggests that Jessica’s character is filling in Emma’s role in this one.
That's fantastic. Except we can't judge a film that hasn't been made.
I'm definitely hoping that it keeps getting pushed until it is forgotten and we can see the MCU version of the story.
Fox are idionts. The Phoenix Saga doesn't even need to be 100% true to the comic story, but at least give us a Jean Grey who taps into some type of external powerful force that then corrupts her! It can be some cosmic embodiment of Life, some mystical power, or heck, maybe something psionic that's at the foundation of the Astral Plain/source of psionic powers. But at least make it where a "good" girl loses herself to an immense power and struggles to keep her identity as she's dealing with the crushing weight of power.
Instead, they're obsessed with fractured personalities and mood swings that make the character come across as a whiny bitch lashing out because she's in a pissy mood and wants to hurt someone.
We already saw the MCU version in Wolverine & The X-Men. Yeah...
Not sure how a 2009 cartoon relates to a live-action MCU film made in 2020s...
In DARK PHOENIX, the X-MEN face their most formidable and powerful foe: one of their own, Jean Grey. During a rescue mission in space, Jean is nearly killed when she is hit by a mysterious cosmic force. Once she returns home, this force not only makes her infinitely more powerful, but far more unstable. Wrestling with this entity inside her, Jean unleashes her powers in ways she can neither comprehend nor contain. With Jean spiraling out of control, and hurting the ones she loves most, she begins to unravel the very fabric that holds the X-Men together. Now, with this family falling apart, they must find a way to unite -- not only to save Jean’s soul, but to save our very planet from aliens who wish to weaponize this force and rule the galaxy.
1 - The trailer shows none of this and insteads acts as though Jean's gone off the deepend.
2 - This is Fox and until it's in cinemas and I can actually see Jean being possessed, I wouldn't trust them not to do a fast one and change things around at the last minute.
That original scene between MJ and Peter was a brilliant read when I first came across it. Peter and MJ are my Marvle couple even if I'm not the die-hard Spider-Man reader I used to be. I can't stomach insect/arachnid closeups and their faces make me queasy, not a great situation when following a character called Spider-Man.
Breaking Peter and MJ's wedding was one of the worst moments in Peter's life for me as a reader. His relationship with MJ kept him grounded and focused and gave him the strength to continue when times got tough. She's his pillar of strength, his reason for living at times, and is the one person who makes sure he never loses sight of what's important. Every stupid decision Peter has made, every cringe-inducing story arc since Mephisto's deal could have worked out so much better for him if he had Mary-Jane waiting for him.
After re-reading so much old ASM comics for the Peter MJ Romance Chronology, I came across this, Sensational Spider-Man v2 32.
In this issue Mary Jane is feeling the full force of the Civil War blowback. She's in a motel, she wears plain clothing, she's the complete opposite of her original glamorous self. She considers running away. She wants to let her feelings out and calls Susan Storm.
Its in here that she tells us that she was JOINED to Peter Parker, or rather she tied her life to his, not on their wedding day, not the first time they kissed at the airport, but rather immediately after Gwen Stacy died and she shut the door on Peter's room refusing to run away. That was the moment where she changed, that was the moment she decided she loved Peter and wanted to be with him. That's when she married Peter in her heart.
On paper, the Phoenix should be able to beat the Celestials, even as a group. However, on paper that probably results in the entire galaxy/universe the battle is happening in being destroyed.
The only thing that makes sense in the inconsistency of Phoneix Hosts is that the Phoenix actively putting limiters on its hosts so that they can only access certain levels of the Phoenix's power. Which means it's a total "depends" on the situation, the host, and whether the Phoenix has an actual dog in the fight or is going to bugger off if the host loses.
@mrnihal:The Fox's X-Men motto is an obsession with specific characters to the detriment of good story-telling.
Snark aside, it's why I mentioned the Astral Plain idea. The core concept of the Phoenix Saga was a young woman who gained far more power than she knew what to do with and who ultimately (and with help) fell into a total dark hedonistic attitude. Her own pleasure even at the expense of millions/billions of lives.
X-3 missed this point and the trailer for DP doesn't inspire me in any way. It once again looks like Jean has a dark persona that's psychotic which is a backwards way of interpreting the Phoenix Saga's core story.
Phoenix Saga Jean falls so far she sees no way back. The desires (Dark Phoenix) are constantly pushing at her, the urge to let loose and don't care are almost an addiction by the time she turns that gun on herself. Phoenix Jean wanted to use her power for good only to be corrupted by it.
What did X-3 Jean and now XM:DP Jean appears to have compared to this? A persona that "wants to watch the world burn" and needed to be locked way rather than the girl be given psychological care. They're two completely different characters.