Darthjhawk's forum posts

Avatar image for darthjhawk
Darthjhawk

462

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

66

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

Avatar image for darthjhawk
Darthjhawk

462

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

66

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

@vsw: Sorry for the wait my friend, here we go!

The Mascaron Drive: Ichigo vs Tatsumaki Part One

No Caption Provided

Opening Argument: The Whydunit

Well... it's been quite a while since I've touched a post, let alone CV as a whole. Regardless I'm excited to be back and to have this discussion with you. As such, I'll be trying a few new things with this discourse. Wasting no time, I'll start by establishing that I'll be treating the two characters in this discussion as pure equals rather than deliberating on Ichigo's stats, list of skills, abilities, placements... at least for now in the expected sense. Instead, this post will have a stronger focus on the intangible reasons why I feel Ichigo takes this battle, some would say he even dominates it.

The most apparent reason is something I feel boils down to one word. Physicality. Now I recognize that sounds odd after I just said that I would avoid listing all the stat placements and whatnot. But if we take time to appreciate the full meaning of physicality we can come to understand that what I mean in full is Ichigo's pure presence in this fight. While Tatsumaki technically doesn't abide by range due to the versatility of her psychic powers, in a way she fights similarly to one of Ichigo's first major opponents; Byakuya Kuchiki:

Chapter 161
Chapter 161

As you can see, Byakuya can fight from all ranges indiscriminately, offensively, and defensively by telekinetically controlling over millions of blades. He can even double the speed by controlling his blades directly with his hands. (Ch. 163). While this all well and good, I do recognize that countering Sebonzakura is not a 1:1 with Tatsumaki's Esper abilities. As they are far more open with her application of pure telekinesis. However, what we both can acknowledge are the fundamental fighting styles and their interplay. Especially since we know that in some capacity physical and even overall power can negatively affect Tatsumaki's ability to manipulate her target. So, Ichigo's own power combined with his natural high octane, pressure inducing combat style will keep the pressure on, constantly testing her barrier, and keeping her from being able to focus her abilities on him:

Chapter 163
Chapter 163

And yes this is quite consistent throughout the series for Ichigo do. Against range-irrelevant type opponents equal to him like Byakuya above, or opponents his greater such as his second fight with Grimmjow Jaegerjaques:

Hollow Mask Ichigo Batters Grimmjow: Chapter 231-2

Unveiling his recently acquired control over Hollowfication; Ichigo uses a combination of his speed, strength, and Getsuga to pressure Grimmjow; (an opponent who demolished him in their previous encounter) and grievously injure him.

  • We first see him use his speed in an attempt to blitz Grimmjow, who barely reacts, while at the same time charging his blade with Getsuga
  • Maintaining blade lock, Ichigo releases the explosion of Getsuga, bypassing the initial crescent shape on release, thereby negating Grimmjow's reaction time.
  • As the smoke clears, Ichigo sends a casual Getsuga which overpowers Grimmjow still, and while he is pressured by that...
  • Ichigo uses his speed to get behind him and then launch another blast at point-blank range.

So as you can confirm, Ichigo has a massive physical presence in every fight he's in, and this is barely scratching the surface. As not only does the mere awakening of his endgame power evaporate seas(Ch.542) but lightning that is five times more powerful, thus faster than natural lightning(Ch.582), as well as its user, is a relative statue to him(Ch.583). And this is quite literally the tip of the iceberg in terms of what a peak Ichigo is capable of.

=========================================================

But this is only one half of why I feel he has the advantage over Tatsumaki in this battle. The other half pertains to Ichigo's keen awareness and ability to instantly adapt to the versatility of his opponents and the opportunities, counters, and strategies the interplay affords:

No Caption Provided

Unfortunately compared to many other shonen protagonists, let alone characters Ichigo can be found wanting in terms of what he brings to what one would call a "versatile" arsenal. While he is versatile in his own right, with the myriad of abilities afforded to his multi-species nature, he does not abuse the full breadth of his potential powerset. In a series of characters who make him look like a super one-trick pony, Ichigo counteracts this with mental combat prowess. Which is alluded to above, lies in his analytical, tactical (simple as they maybe), and coordination skills.

Not unlike before with physicality, a highlighted instance I feel displays this is in Ichigo's final match with Ulquiorra Cifer.

Chapter 341
Chapter 341
  • In the first scan, we see Ichigo can essentially watch Ulquiorra movements as if they were slow motion (not really) and then react to each of them; then placing his evasive moves to not incur any wasted steps.
  • From there he can analyze, perceive, and then catch Ulq's arm and then overpower it, even landing what could have been a critical blow if not for Ulquiorra's durability and Hierro.
  • Then Ichigo explains his nature of fighting, as analyzing his opponent in the heat of battle is something he always strives to do. And from that every facet.

For someone like Tatsumaki who consistently seems to employ her telekinesis with her hands and general limb movement,(again, not unlike Byakuya Kuchiki and Sebonzakura) Ichigo being able to spot said movements and predict how she is about to attack or even defend will afford him more opportunities to exploit the gaps in not only Tatsumaki's abilities but her fundamental nature and fighting style. Ichigo himself has described this when in battle with Gin Ichimaru (Ch. 399):

No Caption Provided

This has also been stated by other characters who are describing Ichigo and his combat prowess such as his narrative foil Ginjo Kujo. (Ch. 476). This does not merely extend to purely physical abilities in case you began to wonder. Take not the first example that was shown was Ichigo detecting, adapting to, and fighting with Aizen's Kyouka Suigetsu. Aizen's sword allows him to create and manipulate hyperrealistic illusions as a barebones explanation. But like I said, this pertains to all types of abilities such as Ulquiorra's Cero (Ch.271). Now, something I'm sure you might be thinking, "Okay but what does this have to do with Tatsumaki? She uses TK." Well, this is all still relevant as Ichigo has encountered and stopped the application of telekinesis in one of his multiple battles with Yhwach.

No Caption Provided

One of Yhwach's many abilities that he displayed was the application of telekinesis. One that he used to swiftly lift the entirety of the Seireitei thousands of miles into the air and recreate the Quincy Nation (Ch.627). He can also focus this down to being so small and potent that it is regulated to his target's torso and obliterate them. (Ch.610).

Yhwach of course when weaker casually displayed power surpassing series powerhouse, Genryusai Yamamoto (Ch. 510), which was going to passively destroy the planet of Soul Society in a relatively short amount of time. (Ch. 507) Consequently, Ichigo being to notice, adapt to, and immediately counteract/negate his telekinesis is extremely applicable to his battle with Tatsumaki here.

=========================================================

In short, I think its clear to see why I believe Ichigo has the overall edge in this matchup. In terms of both arsenal and character, I would maintain he has the clear upper hand. While he fights to understand, Tatsumaki seems to be the type whose ego would interfere with her winning conditions before Ichigo. That's not to say she has nothing redeeming or has no tactical capability. To be the number two hero in that universe is something she could not be without them, just I feel Ichigo is better suited to a confrontation of this nature.

As I have hoped to stay true to, I refrained from diving deep into scaling, ability listing, stat comparison, and whatnot. Much of that will be extrapolated upon in my next post. What I wanted was to focus on crafting the argumentation side of this discourse and truly explain why I feel Ichigo has a higher chance of victory. The win conditions for both our characters are quite simple, while I'll let you establish yours, all Ichigo needs to do is breakthrough Tatsumaki's barrier while keeping her telekinesis from restraining and controlling him. Once the barrier is taken down, one decisive hit should enough to decide the match.

With that my friend I'll turn it over to you. Good luck to us both!

Avatar image for darthjhawk
Darthjhawk

462

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

66

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

#4  Edited By Darthjhawk

Somehow completely forgot about this. Will post by tomorrow afternoon @vsw

Avatar image for darthjhawk
Darthjhawk

462

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

66

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

@higorm: You gotta link me something. I dont know anything about him. Do that for every request

Avatar image for darthjhawk
Darthjhawk

462

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

66

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

5 for both.

@mass said:

@darthjhawk: are you familiar with D.Gray-Man?

if youre familiar with the D Gray Man series, can I get the following:

Tykki Mykk (10)

Road Kamelot (10)

One Universe Rule - remove the no BFR rule

Going to need a lot of info. Know nothing about them.

@higorm said:

@darthjhawk: I assume I can have Agent Venom for 5 points right? Also reserve Prince of Orphans for now.

He would be five yes.

I'll take Luffy for now

@darthjhawk: Can I get Sebastian Shaw (comics) for an 8? And how much would Alan Blackman from Hungry Joker be? https://hungryjoker.fandom.com/wiki/Alan_Blackman

Shaw is cool for 8, and Alan seems like a 6.

@darthjhawk: How much for Fox Quiksilver?

Isnt allowed. Way too fast.

10

@darthjhawk: How much for earth 616 Kitty pryde

Respect thread

5

@kevd4wg said:

I'm not sure that Ultimate Thing should be allowed... he's legit capable of squaring up with Ultimate Universe High Tiers like Hulk, Thor, and even Supreme Power Hyperion.

Reserve me for now. How much would it be/would I be able to have

Those each work. Peter would be a 4 for gear versatility.

@higorm said:

@darthjhawk: reserving yokai, thinker a.i. and iron maniac.

Just put them in a team format and I'll add you in.

Avatar image for darthjhawk
Darthjhawk

462

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

66

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

Teams I have so far. Others I may have on reserve but no teams yet. Tell me asap if there's an error or something that's changed.

1. @thewatcherking

  • Shigaraki (10)
  • Twice(5)

Rest of the character points will be turned to perk points.

Perks

  • Spider sense(1)
  • Invisibility(2)
  • NC’s teleportation (2)
  • 2.5 hours prep(2)
  • Matter manipulation immunity (6)
  • Mind/Soul immunity (6)
  • Negate intangiblilty (8)

2. @defiant_will

  • Anime Technovore (8)
  • Composite Brainiac 5 (9)

Perks

Two Perk Points (3 Character Points) = 22 Perk Points

  • Negate Intangibility w/attacks (8)
  • Full Knowledge (All Feats, Showings) (8)
  • Perfect Teamwork (5)
  • 1 hour of prep (1)

3. @reaverlation:

Character:

  • Prince of Orphans (5)
  • Black Panther (4)
  • Prophet (4)
  • Wildstorm Nemesis (5)
  • Moon Knight (2)

Perks:

  • Fusion (7)
  • Basic knowledge (5)
  • 1 hour of Prep at any base/lab (5)
  • Choose battlefield (3)

4. @psi-bite234:

  • Psylocke (6)
  • Ultimate Kitty pryde (4)
  • Dash (6)
  • Wolverine (4)

Perks

  • Character Fusion (7)
  • Full Knowledge (All Feats, Showings) (8)
  • 15 Level 5 Shield Agents(5)

5. @sonochinosadame

  • Iron Fist(5)
  • Midnighter(4)
  • Genos(10)
  • Overhaul(5)

Perks:

  • Full Knowledge (5)
  • Weapon X Healing (4)
  • Four More Character Points (10)
  • 1 Hour Prep (1

6. @maestromage

  • Composite Yuu (10)

  • Danny Phantom (7)
  • Zhalia Moon (2)
  • Dante Vale (No Titans) (1)

Perks:

  • Character fusion (7)
  • Basic Knowledge (Wiki) (5)
  • Sharingan (6)
  • 1 hour prep (1)
  • Spider-Sense (1)

7. @gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps

  1. Heracles (8)
  2. Arachne (6)
  3. Insomniac Spider-Man w/ Composite Gear (no Velocity Suit) (4)
  4. Neku Sakuraba (2)

Perks:

  1. Character Fusion (7)
  2. Mind & Soul Immunity (6)
  3. Invisibility (2)
  4. Nightcrawler's Teleportation (2)
  5. Spider-Sense (1)
  6. 1 Hour of Prep (1)

8. @deathhero61

Characters(20)

Composite Freak Show(8)

Undergrowth(9)

Two Perk Points (3 Character Points)

Perks(22)

1 hour of prep (1)

Perfect Teamwork (5)

Basic Knowledge (Wiki page) (5)

Mystery Box(11)

9. @geekryan

Characters:

  • Sandman (10)
  • Quentin Quire (6)
  • Ghost (4)

Perks:

  • Perfect Teamwork (5)
  • Molecular Manipulation Immunity (6)
  • Basic Knowledge (5)
  • Choose Battlefield (3)
  • 1 Hour of Prep (1)
  • One Universe Rule

10. @noobmaster2001:

Characters

  • Mysterio (3)
  • Blizzard (7)
  • Tinkerer (4)
  • Klaw (10)

Perks

  • 1 assist character for prep (8)
  • 4 character points (4)
  • 5 hours of prep at a lab/base of choice (6)
  • 2.5 hours of prep (2)

Reserves:

@spinach@shade545@higorm@mojo-verse@juiceboks@mass@sawed_off_it@kevd4wg

@higorm said:

@darthjhawk: reserving yokai, thinker a.i. and iron maniac.

Avatar image for darthjhawk
Darthjhawk

462

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

66

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

Also so everyone knows the fusion clause had a type in it. Characters above 8 cannot be fused, not the previous 10

Avatar image for darthjhawk
Darthjhawk

462

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

66

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

updates coming in a bit. We can actually start sooner than expected

Avatar image for darthjhawk
Darthjhawk

462

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

66

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

Full Updates will come tomorrow but just to make sure everyone is acknowledged so far:

Reserve me

Shigaraki (10)

Twice(5)

Midnight(2)

Perks

Character fusion(7)

1 hour prep (1)

Invisibility (2)

Rest of the perks will go to the mystery box

Got you.

Reserve me Composite Brainiac 5 (LoS)

done.

@darthjhawk: if I wanted Percy, either base or CoA, what am I looking at?

Also, CW Thawne?

EDIT: nvm with Thawne, depending on the speed parameters here

I’m thinking 2 and 5 respectively. At least based on my impression. Speed cap is Mach 25 so low re-entry.

@mass said:

@darthjhawk: What's the ruling on Space Manipulation as in Forced Teleportation, Space Cutting, Etc...?

Going to keep those types of abilities banned this time around.

@darthjhawk: How much for Psylocke?

Probably a 6.

and Done for your reserve.

Reserve me

Done

@darthjhawk: Reserve me please.

Done.