CyberBlades22

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CyberBlades22

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@kallavan:

Lmao, you actually aren't?

No, though I don't really understand what's funny here.

For one, Urashiki has scaling to Adult Sasuke,

He actually doesn't, well at least not any where near full power Adult Sasuke. The first time Urashiki's arc begins it's stated by Shikamaru that Sasuke is following or tracing Urashiki through dimensions. This is important because dimensions is plural for more than one dimension (meaning at least 2 or more dimensions were traversed and approximately at minimum 3 portals opened (one from Earth to the first dimension, one to the second dimension and one portal back to Earth in the Land if we assume he only did the minimum of 3 portals and not more) it could be more dimensions but we aren't given a number of how many dimesons so I'll assume it's the lowest possible number) and we know in Boruto that time space jutsu weakens Sasuke by quiet a bit. Now against Urashiki Sasuke was forced to guard Gaara who was the weak link in battle and Shukkaku who they had to protect from Urashiki stealing him. This post dimension jump weakened Sasuke was keeping up just fine with these disadvantages, it is only when Boruto appears is when Sasuke is forced to defend Boruto and tell him to run while he has his guard down due to not fighting and having his body and eyesight turned in Boruto's direction (who is directly opposite to where Urashiki was so Sasuke turned his sight 180 degrees). It is then when Urashiki uses that opening to offguard and steal Sasuke's chakra through chakra stealing hax weakening Sasuke even more and when Sasuke tries to strike Urashiki rather than directly fighting is visually afraid and prompts with using portal BFR to ice dimension on Sasuke by creating a portal in front of Sasuke. Urashiki at that point performs really poorly against all his other opponents rather than outright stomping them (Gaara, Shukaku, Shinki and Boruto) all of whom either sealed him for a good while or caused significant damage to Urashiki. And when Sasuke uses dimension hop again making himself even weaker than before due to the previous nerfs, Urashiki is scared of Sasuke and chooses to retreat rather than engage Sasuke in combat.

In the time leap arc when Urashiki obtains Karasuki (the time travel turtle) we learn from statements that Sasuke is still heavily low on chakra from the previous encounter and hasn't recovered his chakra yet, meaning he's heavily weakened here still from the first encounter above when Urashiki retreated. Meaning even the brief scuffle that Sasuke and Urashiki had was against heavily weakened Sasuke, and mind you if Sasuke is heavily weakened and extremely low on chakra his performance falters greatly (as seen against Shin and while you can say that's pis for Shin keeping up the same can be said Urashiki keeping up with Sasuke but the more logical reason is to assume Sasuke is heavily weakened). The small scuffle itself is only a few kenjutsu exchanges and nothing more. Now in the past Sasuke who was already weakened from all the mentioned stuff is forced to suppress himself further by hiding his sharingan and asking for help from Jiraiya in guarding Naruto even though we know Jiraiya in part 1 is fodder to any relevant god tier (like Momo, Juubito or even any top tier for that matter), we are shown Sasuke suppresing himself when instead of Sasuke straight up busting the rock dome made by Urashiki he rather has Jiraiya do it and later needed sealing tags to avoid chakra stealing hax. Sasuke suppressed himself heavily in that arc on top of those nerfs by only using sharingan once for precog for a few seconds at most, and using it for enton one other time against transformed Urashiki. So Sasuke at full power would stomp Urashiki into dust, this Sasuke Urashiki battled doesn't scale to adult Sasuke at full power or Adult Sasuke against Momo or Adult Sasuke against Jigen. Proof enough is all of Urashiki's horrible performances against Shinki, Boruto, Jiraiya, Shukkaku, Gaara, Chojuro and part 1 KN Naruto. With the above mentioned stuff proving Sasuke was heavily weakened and nerfed (and probably nerfed by plot seeing as he's a god tier with god tier feats before that) along with how many times Urashiki struggled against fodder, it just shows that his instances with part 1 Naruto and Boruto aren't pis moments but it's his actual power since these scenes happened far too many times to be called pis, and Sasuke was never at full power, so Urashiki has no god tier feats whatsoever.

and he's also stated to be the strongest in his clan(obviously the ones we saw) putting him above Kaguya.

He's not above Momo or Kin or Fused Momo, let alone Isshiki or Kaguya. Also that scan you're using doesn't say he's the strongest, that's a mistranslation.

I'm assuming the scan you referencing is this

No Caption Provided

The actual text was found by a user (JOVIOLMA) who found the kanji only said

強敵=formidable enemy; strong enemy; tough enemy

rather than the kanji

最強= Strongest

Meaning the scan of strongest Otsutsuki Urashiki is a mistranslation, and he's isn't the strongest, if the feats weren't enough to prove this.

And even using the wrong translation of strongest that would include Isshiki as well since he was introduced in the manga and the "revered as the Strongest of his clan" would include Isshiki as he's part of the clan but we know that isn't true, but again that scan your using is a mistransaltion.

For two, Isshiki would solo by himself, Isshiki > V3 Karma Jigen > SPSM Naruto(Hokage) & Adult Rinnegan + EMS Sasuke > WA Naruto ~ Kaguya, they have many hax that can just damage her. Base Momo's implied to be stronger than Kaguya, and we know that he gets an amp when he absorbs Kinshiki.

Isshiki can't solo by himself, team 1 has better stats and better hax/ versatility even if I said Isshiki got a power edge (which he doesn't except maybe in raw physical strength without aid of jutsus, with jutsus counted it's a different story).

Also WA Naruto isn't relative to Kaguya idk where you got that from, every time he hit Kaguya was offguard and when Kaguya was stated to be getting low on chakra from switching dimensions which in manga, anime and databook all say takes a huge toll on her chakra, and in the lava dimension and halfway through the ice dimension it's stated Kaguya held back killer intent as her goal was only to capture and drain team 7s chakra. In the lava dimension a holding back Kaguya weakened from 1 dimension switch overpowered Naruto and oneshot PS Sasuke. Kaguya at this point captures Sasuke and Naruto and could have easily killed them here but spares them instead prompting to absorb chakra rather than ash bone them to dust. Naruto only hit her with a offguard reverse harem jutsu distraction which caused no visible damage. The second time in the ice dimension she's weaker from 2 dimension switches now and again holding back killer intent and Naruto purposely drew her in close by pretending to be pinned by the ice from Kaguya then when she got in close he used boil release to amp his stats and melt the ice to hit her last moment before she could properly defend in time and the hit again didn't cause any visible damage besides knocking her back. Kaguya then keeps up with the clones but because of attacks coming from all directions she prompts to dimension hop but she blocked every attack from the clones without much trouble but it's only the number of attacks are too much to block with no killer intent attacks. Later we see Kaguya after killer intent easily killing all of Naruto's clones using ash bones and the only reason he survived was because he learned of ash bones from his dead clones and cleverly gave his TSO to a clone and made his other clones guard that clone to make it seem like the original while the real Naruto hid behind the other clones until Sasuke returned essentially buying himself time. After Obito and Sakura return Sasuke back to battle, Kaguya switches to the gravity dimension, Kaguya again used up a huge amount of chakra from doing this (as Zetsu says dimension swapping uses up a huge amount of chakra) and here she nearly kills Naruto and Sasuke if not for Kakashi and Obito saving them (kinda a plot moment as Sasuke, Naruto and Kaguya can't move in that gravity yet Kakashi and Obito can), so again the duo are saved from death. Then Kaguya switches to core after Zetsu says she needs to recharge her chakra again as she's really low on chakra and heavily weakened (against Deidara vs Sasuke we know low chakra lowers stats and weakens the person) this is when Kaguya is floating doing nothing except observing Naruto sulking while Zetsu insults him and Naruto offguard cuts her arm off, and then tanks the 9 rasenshurikens after destroying Sasuke's PS again. At this point she makes the ETSO which is confirmed to be able to kill all of team 7 and even escaping to kamui land won't help them. And only with DMS Obito, DMS Kakashi and Sakura (with plot helping her) are the duo of Naruto and Sasuke able to seal Kaguya away using oneshot seals the activates the strongest sealing jutsu in the series by ripping their power out of them and sealing away their powerless husk. So the Kaguya fight had many factors to them winning and Naruto isn't relative Kaguya, as Kaguya > Team 7, they only won due to the seals and a lot of factors in their favor.

The Momo statement of him being implied stronger I don't really take as feats say otherwise, Momo was below SPSM + KCM Naruto even with multiple amped absorbed jutsus collected and his performance and feats against his foes didn't really put him above Kaguya in any regard, even base 50% power Naruto was pressuring him with help from kages and later that Naruto faired better against fused Momo for a few hits. The statement of Momo to me is like the Boro statement of him being > Delta despite Delta having massively better feats. Fused Momo is much stronger but even then he lost to Naruto who had half his chakr absorbed by Momo and Sasuke who was near equal to that Naruto because he was weakened from transporting 7 people + himself to another dimension, and even in that fight Momo acknowledged Naruto as the bigger threat meaning Sasuke was weakened here similar to Naruto. So either Adult Sasuke or Adult Naruto at 100% would beat Momo if we assume the Naruto and Sasuke are equals as adults, that both were 50% against Momo and that it took both of them to beat them that would mean either one at full power would beat fused Momo. While the adult duo stronger than their teen selves (except VOTE2 versions, but not including baryon Naruto as he's above VOTE2) the duo just has training and mastery of their powers and Naruto has another half of Kurama which I don't see how that alone would place either of the duo above Kaguya, let alone prime Kaguya who is above her war arc version. So I have Kaguya above adult duo and fused Momo individually, especially with ETSO.

Kaguya is literally stronger than the other two(Hagoromo & Hamura) in a 1v1 fight, she's also stated to be above Hagoromo(stated by Hagoromo himself), so it would just be the same scaling but then it connects to Hagoromo & Hamura.

Yeah I agree with Kaguya > Hagoromo > Hamura. But Hagoromo is still relevant here as he gave Naruto and Sasuke their powers as weakened old ghost of himself without the Juubi in him. Alive Prime Hagoromo with Juubi is far stronger as he has all of Naruto and Sasuke's six paths powers (not stuff like ameno and stuff but just the SPSM, six paths senjutsu, rinnegan/ visual prowess and six path chakra halves with the seals etc), he has confirmed mastery over both those powers the duo had and longer experience and training with those powers, a complete Juubi with the same Kurama Naruto has and more, and other hax like creation of all things and whatever rinnegan ability he has. So he really powerful here too.

Hamura has less feats but with just the byakugan he had the same amount of chakra as pre juubi Hagoromo as Kaguya has split her chakra among her sons and Hamura kept up with rinnegan pre Juubi Hagoromo against the ten tails when they sealed it into Hagoromo making him the juubi jinchuriki. He then has the tenseigan which we know is above Toneri's and Toneri confirmed Hamura > Toneri and even with Naruto's chakra absorbed and the suns chakra absorbed Hamura was still above them, so he also really powerful here as well and should be in some regard comparable to his older twin brother in power.

Kaguya is not immortal, she's actually dead by the Boruto era, it's actually stated. Even then, they have many hax that can take out Kaguya.

The source your quoting I'm assuming is the Momoshiki and also the Kinshiki scans [1][2]. That scan is derived from the Boruto movie guide so it only applies to the movie version of events which is only canon to the movie and not Boruto manga and anime (Kishimoto at this point didn't have any future envisioned from Boruto), not sure about authentcity of the translations for that Momo scan but it's worth mentioning that same guide says Kaguya was sealed and rather than killed in a previous page.

Also Kaguya was sealed using the same technique +1000 years back and didn't die, she only lived as the Gedo statue which is a husk of her former self, and even Madara absorbing her chakra for decades didn't kill her, it instead prolonged Madara's lifespan further proving her immortality even in weakened forms. Kaguya herself and databook guides several times state Juubi jins and Kaguya is immortal and they have shown immortality via eternal life seeing as Kaguya can survive for 1000+ years as a weak shell of herself and the god tree is stated to have the life force to keep all things caught in the infinite tsukuyomi alive for eternity, she and the Juubi jins regen'd from normally life ending injuries, and even people like Victor can regen heads blown off their heads and limbs and what not and he states that regen pales in comparisson to the chakra fruit which grants true immortality and is the only regen that can make him truly immortal and make him regen his missing body parts that even his regen that can heal his head being crushed to pieces back to normal.

Even accepting that Kaguya died (which she didn't), it wasn't from battle, it was from the strongest sealing jutsu in existence robbing her of all her chakra and sealing her husk into a newly formed moon that crushed and trapped her in the middle in another dimension, not something anyone on team 2 is capable of btw and it's the only means for any Naruto or Boruto character as of now to beat her and overcome her immortality.

Kaguya overall still has the power, speed and hax/ versatility advantage so she wins but with lots of difficulties of course.

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CyberBlades22

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Honestly loses round 1 since Toneri can drain or destroy the planet by dropping the moon leaving no breathable atmosphere or TK Gojo and massive stat gap prevents him from being hit

After catching up to Jujutsu Kaisen's manga I'd have to more or less agree with this.

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CyberBlades22

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Naruto because of greater feats against stronger opponents in the war arc and past that, better statements and hype (while Ashura really featless even counting anime and even using statements and hype the same can be said for Naruto too), and Naruto is just a better version of Ashura in all regards.

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#5  Edited By CyberBlades22

Vegeta might win now

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@coldskin1: Movie Beerus might be able to take out Omega (I don't see him doing so with feats), but not because of lack of planetary physicals and deathbattle reasoning, neither of those statements are correct.

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Goku stomps them and their verse. Zeref is the only one to live because of his immortality, but Goku could just BFR him far away with an attack.

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No one in the FT verse, this duo solos the FT verse.

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