@itachus17: Honestly good post , I disagree with some things but I see where you are coming from. Not including the comics, Zuko and Azula are simply even to me by the EOS, with Azula having a slight edge maybe. I personally think Zuko in the comics would give Azula from the comics a very good fight, but come up short, just my opinion though. I think I will just agree to disagree with you on this if that is cool? Good points, I'd like to do a CaV with you about battles between some characters in avatar some time, good debate.
@ussj3071: we know for a fact that Dabura is perfect cell level , and vegeta and Goku simply we’re not impressed with him . Vegeta literally says he would beat him , and Goku says he is not much of a threat . So that basically means that vegeta prior to majin I stronger than perfect cell , idk if they meant super perfect cell or not ( which honestly they may have been ) .
And for everyone , vegeta should win this fight . I keep seeing “no ssj can beat cell” , stop saying that . Depending on their Base power levels is what determines how strong they are , ssj isn’t just a set level . We know that majin vegeta is stronger than ssj2 kid Gohan , same fighter who beat cell with one arm and not his full power . So, if vegeta is stronger than cell super perfect Form in ssj2, logically he would be stronger than perfect cell in ssj( for we don’t know the how strong cell got after the explosion , but it’s not more than 2x. Ssj2 is a 2x increase , so without vegeta would still be stronger ) let me put it like this , just like in vegeta and Goku first fight , Goku used kaoiken 3x because his base was weaker . So if vegeta also used that same technique, who would be stronger ? It’s the same concept here . Hope this was understandable
@itachus17: The blantanly jobbing part is what I can’t agree with . You use parts of the fight where you believe based off Azula previous feats she should have not let happen , but let me ask you this : why was aang not able to catch azula on black sun, even though he has shown to run as fast as a blur and literally create tornadoes off his running ? Why did aang not dodge that straightforward blast in the crystal catacombs ? Why did zuko just stand there when aang sent that air image blast of himself ? There are a lot of instances where characters let something happen even though previous feats show they shouldn’t . There is no logical reason on why azula wouldn’t be on top of her game , and maybe in the context of the fight , katara was simply outfighting her .
Also with the gondola fight . When azula and zuko are fighting each other, neither can gain the edge . Zuko is quite easily stopping her attacks and vice versa . I’ll put it like this , if sokka wasn’t there , it would still be a stalemate.
With the southern raiders fight , azula may have just experienced betrayals, but she is still in her top fighting form . She is not wild , and still basically controlled . It was simply a stalemate once again . And yes Zuko May have died when they blasted each other off the gondola , but the fight itself was even and nothing can refute that .
Then when zuko submits to his uncle , it makes no sense . He just faught her evenly twice mind you , and had no hesitation to fight her. He could have retreated at the southern raiders fight , but he chose to stay behind . But when his uncle says he can’t hanfle her ( not even knowing how he fights now ) zuko submits ? It doesn’t make sense to me . I think he did it out of respect and also because he knew going alone was not a sure victory , and that’s a risk he could not take .
I am only talking about the azula in the series , not comics ( even though zuko in my opinion has gotten better in the comics , and he managed to beat her in of their fights , but I do say she is a little superior )
Azula simply remained stagnant in abilities to me based off feats and zuko got better to point where he could match her evenly . A slight superiority for azula sure , but I can’t say she wins more than a 6/10 majority , and it’s only my opinion
For some reason, I have constantly seen people downplay Zuko and it really gets to me sometimes. I can respect someone saying that a sane Azula may be better than him at the end of book 3, but for those who are saying that he loses comfortably and even still gets stomped I respectfully disagree with. Zuko, in my opinion, was approaching her at the end of book 2 based off their fights. He was basically stalemating Aang, she was losing to katara, he was stalemating Katara, and she was having an edge over Aang. Now I am not saying that Zuko is even to her at the end of Book 2, but he is getting closer and could give her a fight. Book 3 Zuko post dragon training in my opinion is basically even with her (maybe giving her a very slight edge).
I know people are going to bring up Iroh saying he could not handle Azula (even though he stalemated her twice before that, and if someone says Sokka had a part in that first fight, rewatch it and you will see that Zuko literally waited till he was back behind him until he stroke, and you will see how little Sokka played). Iroh had not seen Zuko fight in a while, so I simply can not take his word as credible in that specific scenario. I believe that Zuko took Katara to have a sure victory, knowing that Azula very well could beat him and did not want to take that chance. Now I am not downplaying Azula, I think she is actually above Katara by a little bit, but I just feel like Zuko is downplayed. Its my thread and I made it because I was curious on who wins with these teams, and I still do not know who I give the edge to, but I am coming to a conclusion.
If anyone would like to debate my claims, I am happy to have a good clash with you, thanks.
@anthp2000: I feel like you simply do not like Ozai or you are an azula fan. Sorry if you feel like I am targeting you, I promise I am not, But you just seem to be underestimating Ozai, and Azula does not have comic feats so she is not winning by herself (and she is not giving him as difficult as fight between the two you are making it out to be in my opinion)