Cooldes

@Aristeaus: what dumb logic, yeah vegeta got some hits in on black once.

Black also god-stomped ssb vegeta while in base once.

The last time we saw black, he was easily handling ssbkk goku, ssb vegeta, and ssj2 trunks all at once with shadow clones or w.e. they were.

Saying "oh vegeta was beating black once" doesnt even make sense as an argument because

1 black has dominated ssb vegeta so many times its ridiculous. Literally vegeta and goku had to flee from the future twice to run from black.

2 right after vegeta gave his speach, literally RIGHT after, black powered up and went back to dominating them both again.

@oreoghoul: because goku black was above goku and vegeta and trunks while he was still in base, not only that but his power increases at crazy rates like Hits improvement.

With sycthe he held off all 3 at once with zero effort with shadowclones.

I dont see anyone here on this list beating black. But i do see some that beat 17. In duos, if someone beats 17, the 2 of them can jump black. So 17 is holding him down

@oreoghoul: i agree but all of those things i could see goku ssbkkx20 also doing, and we already knew pre ToP that 17 was around goku ssbkk but with infinite stamina and that great barrier ability.

@cdiddyman911: no god of destruction ever hakai'd frieza. Of you mean when sidra gave some random fodder a little bit of his hakai energy, that the weakling fodder dude threw at frieza much later, that freiza then still struggled to contain. I would hope you can understand how that situation is different than an actual God of destruction Hakai-ing you.

Also, toppos hakai energy he hit frieza with didnt even kill him. Or KO him. Or vaporize him. Not even a little, he even continued to fight shortly after

@oreoghoul: jiren powered up yes, but going from 1% to 2% is also powering up. He didnt start going full power until goku mastered UI. And even then i doubt its his full power because of the spoilers for the next few episodes which i wont go into.

Also the toppo thing was just a title, he doesnt hold the postion of god of destruction for any universe

@gentlemantophat: he had hakai energy, and is a candidate, but the GoD for universe 11 is belmod. Not only that, but beerus even said his skill/experience as a GoD was lacking

@oreoghoul: 17 never once saw a full powered jiren, and never once fought an actual god of destruction. Are we watching the same show?

@standardized: no hes not lmfao

Stops at toppo and dyspo

Tbh black could beat any single person on this list except maybe hit, but thats a different debate. 17 is sevearly holding him back

The op doesnt say namek saga so im going with frieza oneshotting