Chimeroid

This user has not updated recently.

12203 0 25 66
Forum Posts Wiki Points Following Followers

Chimeroid's forum posts

Avatar image for chimeroid
Chimeroid

12203

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

66

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for chimeroid
Chimeroid

12203

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

66

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

@firefly489

A bit more of a "classical" matchup in this one with Hulk vs Thor.

The Asgardians:

No Caption Provided

I hope everyone can understand that nobody wants to spend hours upon hours in the second round, and there are no hard feelings about my introductory sections being straight-up copied from the first round.

Thor Odinson

Are we not Asgard's finest warriors -- the greatest of the living great? shall we buckle like weak-kneed children? Or shall we go on -- on to our Final hour ONTO OUR NOBLE DEATHS!!!

No Caption Provided

Is there anyone on ComicVine who doesn't know who Thor is? Thor, the son of Odin and Gaea. Thor the God of Thunder. Thor, the mighty. The Golden Avenger. The King of Asgard. The All-Father.

We all know who he is. So, let's not waste too much time talking about him. Clearly, I won't be using his All-Father feats. This is all "regular" Thor for the debate. But, I will refer to some of his more modern materials throughout the debate if they provide explanations for his abilities or showcase other aspects that we should consider.

Powers

There is almost no way to reasonably cover everything Thor can do in a single post. So I will just stick to the best-known and most used powers. I will introduce new ones throughout the debate according to necessity.

Planetary Levels of Strength and Durability

Using this feat as a cover because I love Herc.
Using this feat as a cover because I love Herc.

It says it right "on the label". Thor can slug it out with the strongest of the strong. He fought everyone he could, including various beings that can planet-bust and tank planet-busting attacks. He has moved and withstood weights and pressures that go far beyond the mere weight of the planet Earth.

He withstood the "gravimetric attraction of a neutron star". A feat that, in and of itself is dangerously close to the limits of this tournament.

He held a city/castle firm against the attraction force of a black hole.

I mean, even in my "cover" feat, that's far from his most impressive, arm wrestling with Hercules generated enough pressure to move the Earth. That's with only 1 arm each. Doubles as a durability feat as their bodies withstand that pressure.

In one of his most famous showings, he literally punched someone THROUGH the planet.

Storm Manipulation

All kinds of storms, winds, rains, and lightning are just parts of Thor's existence on this plane. He and Jane were capable of summoning storms of various sizes and effects in so many situations that listing the feats would be insane. So instead, i will just post two feats and move on for now.

Blasts a whole clean through Mikaboshi
Blasts a whole clean through Mikaboshi

And for Jane's feat to showcase their abilities, i will show this one:

No Caption Provided

Channeled Jupiter's Superstorm against Odin, with decent effect. They can control the storms as minutely and precisely as they want, and they can create attacks that far exceed planetary levels. And these are both faaar from the best weather manipulation feats they have.

Mjolnir (And Thor's Versatility)

Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor.

No Caption Provided

Mjolnir is almost a member of my team unto itself. Of course, I have two of them, but Odinson is the true master of the hammer and the one that has done the most with it. Other than the usual power of Thor Mjolnir adds a lot to his arsenal of abilities. That includes.

  • Energy Projection: With Mjolnir, its wielder can project powerful mystical beams of energy. He can even channel energies for stronger energy attacks.
  • God-Blast: Thor is capable of channeling different amounts of his godly energies in combination with the mystical properties of Mjolnir can be channeled through his hammer for a single massive energy beam known as the God-Blast. The God Blast in and of itself easily challenges the limits of this tournament. But, the Hammer can do so much more.
  • Anti-Force: Another form of energy manipulation that calls forth a blast of energy similar to the God Blast, but with a bit less strength, and no side effects. The blast is stated to be capable of destroying planets.
  • Thermo-Blast: A seldomly used ability of Mjolnir that was stated to be capable of destroying planets and killing celestials.
  • Energy Sensing: Mjolnir can detect practically all types of energy
  • Energy Absorption and Redirection: One of the most common applications of the Uru Hammer is Thor's ability to use it to absorb any and all types of energy used against him. He has absorbed and redirected hundreds of attacks in his time. Including magic, cosmic energy, physical powers, radioactivity, and even magnetism. He even once fully drained Doom-Driven Destroyer armor in a matter of moments. There is little to no limit in regards to how much energy Mjolnir can absorb, redirect, or even straight up remove from the equation. This ability will be of very high importance.
  • Portal Creation - Thor can effortlessly open portals to anywhere he wants to including cross-dimensional portals. He doesn't even need to know where he is going. It is driven by his desire.
  • Nether World Power/ Hellfire: Thor can enhance his hammer with the fires of the Nether World (Hel) Or he can just shoot flames or use them in creative ways
  • Memory Manipulation: I wasn't sure if this was Mjolnir's ability, or Thor's, but he has on occasion used the hammer to alter or delete memories of people around him.
  • Cosmic Energy: Mjolnir allows Thor to produce and control Cosmic Energy to an unknown limit for a variety of purposes.
  • Invisibility and Intangibility: Thor can turn himself or others, using Mjolnir, completely intangible and/or invisible. An offshoot of this ability is that Thor can use Mjolnir to completely disrupt phasing abilities.
  • Life Force Absorption:
  • Illusion Detection: Mjolnir can distinguish images, holograms, and different illusions from reality:
  • Force Fields: With Mjolnir, Thor was capable of creating powerful barriers, force fields, and vortexes that were impenetrable. Not even Earth's most advanced weapons could weaken Thor's barrier field that shielded the U.N. Headquarters.[101] Thor stated that he could have contained a cosmic flash attack from Stellaris,
  • Negation of Mystic Energy: On many occasion, Thor has been shown able to dispel magical effects of spells or even sap beings empowered by magic of their abilities. Thor has also called upon the powers of his Mother, through the Hammer, to strip sorcerers of their powers.

Jane Thor

Today my hammer comes for your face!

No Caption Provided

Jane Foster has been a huge part of the Thor mythos for many a decade now. But, a long time ago, her story was very different. She was just a former flame, and they both got on with their lives. Recently, however, Jane had her own sting as a person worthy of Mjolnir and Thor's power. Power, that she was every bit as good at using as the Odinson ever was. And, as Thor, she even accomplished some combat feats that eluded Thor for ages.

Powers:

Same as Odinson, but with fewer showings. However, she has some feats that overshadow even the best of Thor's showings. How? Well, she is much more creative with her powers. The way she makes Mjolnir move astounds even Thor himself.

No Caption Provided

With Jane in the fray, both Mjolnirs become additional FTL combatants for my team. Combatants that move independently in unpredictable and yet fully precise patterns, faster than light, and powerful enough to dent adamantium.

Jane is in every aspect comparable to Odinson and even has a fight against Odin himself where she holds her own masterfully. Clearly, Odin was more powerful and was going to beat her. But what she did is nothing short of miraculous.

These are just a couple of out-of-order scans from the fight.

Now, I am not trying to scale Jane to Odin, that would be ludicrous. No, I am simply scaling her to Odinson. Something that is fair and accurate in every regard. Everything he can do, she can do as well, with the addition of her creative use of Mjolnir's independence.

Loki

Fire and chaos are coming. And I am the Lord of Chaos!

No Caption Provided

Much like Thor, Loki is also a Norse God, although, not truly Asgardian. Loki, in fact, is a Giant, his father, Laufey, is an Ice Giant, and his mother is a Storm (sometimes Ice) giant. He was taken in by Odin to Asgard where he learned the ways of Gods, magic, and trickery. And he excelled at it. He never truly wanted to be a villain. But, as he is a god, and thus shaped by the beliefs of mortals, his opposition to Thor leads him to some dark stories.

He is who will bring this team and strategy together.

Powers

Loki's powers can easily be described in a single word - magic.

Sure, he has super stats, he is fast, strong, durable, immortal, and has all the bells and whistles that come with being a god. But it was always his mind and his magic that made him stand out. He is brilliant, lethal, and one of the most versatile magic users Marvel has ever had. So, when you ask what Loki can do, the answer is - Literally everything.

The list includes:

  • Size manipulation
  • Shapeshifting
  • Invisibility
  • Intangibility
  • Elemental manipulation
  • Summoning
  • Illusions
  • Replication
  • Telepathy
  • Hypnosis
  • Teleportation
  • Telekinesis
  • Strength sapping/transfer
  • Soul transfer
  • Astral projection
  • Binding/cursing/enchanting/spell breaking
  • Clairvoyance
  • Transmutation
  • Animation
  • Healing
  • Resurrection
  • Temporal manipulation

Simply put - he has magic. If you want, I can drop a million scans here, although, it's not necessary. It makes more sense for both of us to stick to feats that will be more relevant to the debate.

The Norn Stones

One of the most common magical items (well, a set of items) that Loki reaches for when he or his friends need a bit of an "oomph". He can teleport the stones to himself at will and is the last known user of the set. In the prep time, he will just bring them to himself in any number of ways (for example, by taking them out of the bag) and start amping the team.

For starters, he can just use the Norn Stones to blanketly amp everyone as he did right before his early demise in Reign.

Reverse Order Scans

Void was shown as clearly superior to even the mightiest of these heroes to the degree of them appearing almost helpless in front of him. And Loki was capable of even amping Captain America to the tier of being capable of actually harming the Void with his shield tosses.

This also healed them to full health when it was needed. This is in line with dozens of other showings of the Norn stones instantly healing people and even resurrecting fallen comrades.

What else can the Norn Stones do? Basically anything. The fact that I will be using them to amp my team doesn't mean that it's the only valid use for them. In essence, they unlock Loki's abilities and feats to a much higher degree than previously possible.

Battle Computer

I will keep with the topic of trying to avoid to post an entire respect thread for each and every section. And., I mean, we all know what the Battle Computer does, right? It runs millions of simulations each second to give Midnighter all of the information he needs to win a fight.

No Caption Provided

From the moment you step to him, he has full knowledge. And not just that, but full predictions of everything you will do. If you want, we can go in-depth with the respect thread for Midnighter and all the crazy stuff he has done with the BC. But, it's enough to just point out one thing:

Midnighter consistently beats beings that are far above him in terms of powers when he uses the battle computer. And, Thor is already too close to the limits of this tournament for your team to be allowed to be significantly more powerful.

Thor is also a versatility king. The amount of Hax abilities he has with Mjolnir is not surpassed by many a character. A battle computer and that type of versatility is a very deadly combination of abilities.

Non-Standard Gear - The Destroyer Armor

For my one piece of Non-Standard gear, I wanted to use the Eternity Mask, as Loki was the one to use it. But Professor really did make a fair ruling when he told me that the way Loki used the mask is way too OP for this tournament, which yes, makes my team much less broken than I wanted it to be, but it opens up to a bit more of Asgardian lore instead. Which, of course, makes me happy as we are here to dig deep into the gods of the Norse.

Odin, as you know, is old. Very old. And he is proud. After he found out that Celestials would one day come back to his realm to judge whether or not it should be left alone to thrive he was rightfully angry. Angry enough that he started developing new weapons that would allow him to thwart the Celestial threat that was looming above his head.

He weaved his magic and transformed his Ring of the Nibelung into a weapon. A suit of armor that was deemed almost completely indestructible. Stronger than Uru, stronger maybe than even Adamantium.

With this weapon created, he went to the other of the "earthly" Gods, and asked their skyfathers to also contribute to the power of the Destroyer armor, and so they did.

Even with all of that, the Destroyer armor is one of Odin's greatest failures. It came woefully short compared to the might of even one celestial, and there were 8 that came to judge Earth that day. Luckily for Odin, they gave it a passing mark and moved along.

But, even as the failure it is, the Armor remains one of the most powerful weapons any Asgardian can wield.

No Caption Provided

Both Loki and Thor have used the Destroyer armor more than once. Now, i will not pretend i can fully predict what the Battle Computer will tell Thor to do. Whether to fuel the Destroyer armor with his soul, or simply to don it as a suit of Armor Odin used once. But, he will do what is deemed the most optimal choice. I assume it would be to simply wear it as a piece of armor, as his father recently did.

No Caption Provided

If you disagree, you can correct me, but that wouldn't change much in regards to everything that could happen. It would be trivial for either Thor to call forth an Asgardian willing to pilot the Destroyer armor for them. Or to do so themselves. How powerful is the armor? Very powerful indeed. Let's mention a few of the feats.

Effortlessly walked through Thor's Anti-Force Blast

canonically harder than adamantium

Even Jarnbjorn isn't capable of putting a scratch into it, and that axe was made to cut celestial armor (and it did)

The combined magic of Karnilla and Scarlett Witch did nothing to the armor.

The armor also packs a helluva punch. Not only can it destroy even Mjolnir itself, but it has transmutational and disintegration beams. Not that i think those will be the most important, but i don't think that part will matter much to this particular debate.

Prep Time

Planning

The biggest difference between how Thor usually fights and this debate will lie in his Battle Computer. A supercomputer capable of calculating millions of scenarios per second can come up with some amazing plans if given hours. This computer has been used for tactical concerns before and has given excellent results.

No Caption Provided

In the showing above, Midnighter orchestrated a global operation battling millions of mind-controlled people and he managed to exactly calculate not only what will happen, but what will happen if he lets someone else take over when he goes to do his work in person.

Now, I don't plan on hiding behind "battle computer - GG". Instead, the entire point is that, if you or I can think of a good way for my team to fight, we can guarantee that the Computer can think at least of that much, probably much better.

This way, I am removing the topic of whether or not we would think of a strategy during the preparation period of 1 hour. To put it simply - I have access to the best possible strategy.

Now, there is not much that I can do with only 1 hour. And, thankfully, we don't need a lot.

Amping and Gearing Up

We will use Loki's powers to amp the Thors and himself in a myriad of ways. All according to what the Battle Computer suggests.

He can amp himself and his team, he can make us all invisible and intangible, and he can depower your team as soon as the battle starts. Loki has, on occasion, amped both himself and others up, to a thousandfold. With the norn stones, it can go way higher than that. Namely, all the way to the tournament limits across all the stats.

Another thing to do during prep is to gear up with some of the common items these characters tend to reach for. With Thor's and Loki's magic and dimensional portals, getting any of their items is a piece of cake. And i'm not even reaching for the powerful stuff.

Thor will get his axe - Jarnbjorn, either that one or any of his other weapons. Mostly just to still have a weapon while Mjolnir is busy doing other things (like being controlled by Jane and fighting creatively, or flying around the battlefield draining all of your energy). Thor can also summon his belt of strength, although, with the Norn Amp, he is already at the limits, so i would avoid using the belt as well for fear of eliminating myself through disqualification. But, if you argue that Thor would still lack strength, i can reach for it.

Loki, will of course, wield his weapons, not that they matter as they all just improve his spellcasting abilities. At the very least, he will be wielding his sword Laevateinn, which is canonically equal in power to Mjolnir.

Battlefield Manipulation

That's not all the Asgardians can do during prep

With Thors, I have two of the most powerful weather manipulators that are allowable in this tournament, which is to say - the battlefield will not last. As you forgot to take the prep perk, you won't have the benefit of enjoying your surroundings, even for a second as two Thors will create a storm that will definitely pose an issue to your flawless execution of whatever battle plan you would want to present. Planetary - Star-level storms are very easily within the range of such amped Gods of Thunder.

Why would this matter? Well, clearly, Hulk wouldn't be affected by near-planetary winds, and Despotelis wouldn't care about the earthquakes or any accidental lightning strikes that come from being in a massive storm. But, Grim Reaper and Winter would absolutely be negatively affected. As would even Metamorpho. But, the most important aspect of your team that would be affected by this would be - your "plan".

And, yes, it is fully in character for Thor to cover an entire planet in a storm.

No Caption Provided

You already have no prep time, and with the pandemonium being unleashed upon you, your team basically has to rely on "random encounter" rules for this fight.

Summons

Since the name of the game here is pure obliteration and a complete lack of time for your team to focus and execute any plan, I will also be leveraging the ability of the royal brothers to wage war.

I will start with Frosti - Or an approximation of it, (depending on if you insist on me bringing the original snowman or creating a new one.) Either takes about a second of Loki's time. Frosti is a snowman powered by the Norn Stones. He can see the future and is capable of devouring Nightmare and sending him back to his dream dimension.

1. Has the power of future sight 2. Can devour Nightmare

The Nightmare instance I, give or take, don't care about almost at all. It's a nifty ability, but nothing too important for our fight.

The future sight, however, that I can leverage greatly. It means that my team can have a much better chance at predicting exactly where your team will be and what they will do when my prep time is over. Once the team has used his future sight, he may as well be melted to serve as a refreshing beverage.

Most of the other summons aren't here to necessarily injure or beat your team, merely to inconvenience you even further and furthermore

With that in mind, Loki can literally turn clouds into dragons. He was confident Thor without a hammer wouldn't be able to handle them. He was, of course, wrong, but if you're just using a dozen or so dragons to waste the enemy's time, it will suffice.

Getting the Knowledge

You wisely took basic knowledge as a perk. I haven't, but, was it a mistake for me? I don't think so, for starters, the Battle computer can analyze the brainwaves of the enemies and give a lot of information to Thor, but, more importantly, Loki has the easiest way to almost full knowledge about anyone.

No Caption Provided

And, to top it all of, as I've said I plan on using Frosti (or a similar construct) for the future sight for even more information.

Having the knowledge needed for this fight, and then using the battle computer during combat to optimize actions and reactions will greatly assist me with fighting a team as interesting as the one you presented right here.

How the Battle Will Go

At a surface level, it does seem like your team doesn't really work together as cohesive ideation, but I can see what you want to go for. The air itself will become poisonous and filled with super-viruses.

Thankfully, neither of those things will necessarily impact my team. Despacito has had issues infecting gods before. I mean, he was outright shown incapable of doing so.

And, yes, Asgardians are also immune to diseases:

And, of course, Thor is far beyond a normal Asgardian.
And, of course, Thor is far beyond a normal Asgardian.

Your team will know, give or take, exactly what the initial strategy of my team will be thanks to their "basic knowledge". But the lack of prep time really hinders you here. You are instantly buffeted by planetary-level winds and much more than that in lightning.

Overall, the basic strategy that your team suggests falls rather quickly when matched up against Gods. But, that leaves you at a place far from helpless. You still have the powers you need to put up an excellent fight. The Immortal Hulk himself is always a fun matchup for Thor. Even though Thor is definitely Hulk superior even in the usual times.

Now, you are probably also planning to leverage the Grim Reaper and his sight to the highest degree possible. Unfortunately for you, the scythe is just inferior to Mjolnir in every single way.

TL; DR

The shortest breakdown of the fight.

1. Similarly to HigorM, this team is getting overwhelmed from the first nanosecond of the fight (the storm would already be going on when they spawn in)

2. Despotelis and Metamorpho can't harm anyone on my team

3. Hulk is strong, but not versatile enough to be useful

3.1. Loki's magic has worked on Hulk before. As recently as 2020, when he fully depowered him (accidentally gave his powers to Spidey).

4. Grim Reaper is versatile enough, but can hardly manage to survive in the situation he will be put in.

5. Thor is amped way beyond the abilities of your team to keep up.

You will, of course, make your own post soon, and that post will, undoubtedly, showcase how your team does stand a chance. I have no doubt of that, but I am certain of my victory. You really can't go into a tournament such as this one with 0 prep. At least a minute on the battlefield would mean a lot.

Ending

Until i see something interesting from you, i have to say. The onslaught that worked on HigorM will equally well work on you. The power disparity is just too big and having 0 prep is a huge problem.

My team being immune to the main offensive ability of Despotelis and Metamorpho is also a huge issue.

We will get down into the nitty-gritty of debating Hulk and Grim Reaper vs Thors and Loki, but it's not a winning fight for you.

Over.

No Caption Provided

Avatar image for chimeroid
Chimeroid

12203

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

66

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

@masterbuster666: no reason to edit anything, I'm just shamelessly promoting our CAV

Avatar image for chimeroid
Chimeroid

12203

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

66

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

@masterbuster666: i'm 1-0 vs ET, and we're running it back right now, make sure to drop in and ask for a tag

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/cav-green-lantern-chimeroid-vs-silver-surfer-emper-2337060/#js-message-4

Avatar image for chimeroid
Chimeroid

12203

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

66

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

Depends in how serious it is. If i saw myself being with that person in the long run i absolutely would not bail

Avatar image for chimeroid
Chimeroid

12203

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

66

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for chimeroid
Chimeroid

12203

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

66

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

Bad take.

All heralds are consistently under planetary level. Odin is consistently under star level, Darkseid is consistently under planetary level, Galactus is consistently under Galaxy level, Hulk is way below planetary consistently, Superman is way below planetary consistently.

Why? Because most stories don't operate on that level - intentionally.

It's not necessarily the limit of the characters with these feats, it's the limits of the current story.

Overall, we allow someone a higher tier if they have repeated feats on that higher tier.

If you fail to bust a city a 100 times, but you destroy a planet 3 times, you are accepted as planet level.

Avatar image for chimeroid
Chimeroid

12203

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

66

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for chimeroid
Chimeroid

12203

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

66

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

Thanks for voting, everyone, and thanks to HigorM for giving me the healthiest debate I've had in ages.

Avatar image for chimeroid
Chimeroid

12203

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

66

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

This debate is honestly wild.

One one hand, Kev has a clearly much, much, much more powerful team. But on the other, getting around "Spidey-Sense + Time jump + ftl PERK to avoid attacks is almost impossible". I have to really think about this one.

For now, i have to say, Kev's presentation and argumentation overall were better. He is more concise and communicates with the voters in a neater fashion. But Ashrym's strategy is an amazing clusterfuck of brilliance with this rag-tag team. I kinda have to love what he is doing here. Bro definitely cooked while being severely underpowered.