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BUTTERZ115

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the only way I see narutos squad even taking down superman would be through hitting superman off-guard with everything they have together but even it wouldnt gurantee his death, maybe knock him out but he would be badly damaged either way. This is a fair battle I presume though so superman takes this through and through.

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#3  Edited By BUTTERZ115

World war hulk takes this, he far from being the strongest hulk but he is pretty darn strong and he still is a version of savage hulk, just wiser. Hulk isn't just at the limit of lifting a mountain like many of you have stated FYI, savage hulk has destroyed dimensions a couple of times:

(Destroys dark dimension) http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/14/147726/2857334-2729853-51605c18a3_ga.jpeg

http://i44.tinypic.com/bevu6p.jpg

(Destroys nightmares dimension)

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Strength/MindlessHulkShockwaves.jpg

(Shakes infinite dimensions/universes with a punch, technically meaning he shook the whole marvel omniverse in his MINDLESS HULK PERSONA which is just a more savage like Savage hulk but way more animal like)(Incredible Hulk #305):http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/136540/3016412-6062158285-Hulkv.jpg

And hulk can take reality ripping force(reality ripping force seems to be the strongest force to take since its ripping reality). http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/136540/3016413-9793409776-Hulkv.jpg

(hulk broke the time barrier twice):

1.http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/indestructible%20hulk%2015/indestructiblehulk15h_zpsaf13f2fb.jpg

2.http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111142536/4223344-savagehulkstrikingpower08135.jpg

(SAVAGE HULK Vs ONSLAUGHT)

There has been a misconception over the years on hulk vs onslaught with many people trying to say it was mindless hulk who fought onslaught but many things show evident to the case of it actually being savage hulk

The incarnation was in before hand was professor hulk(a hulk with Bruce banner in control), professor hulk is the weakest and has been technically limited to not grow in strength due to banners augmentation on himself to not allow it so basically he stays at base strength. Now when PH tells Jean to shut him off, she at first thinks he's talking about shutting down his mutant link with hulk (which she can't do) but he further explains he wants to shut down the thing that limits him thus reverting hulk purely into savage hulk (also, Bruce banner was still a part of hulk so he couldn't have been mindless hulk): http://marvelvdc.com/images/Hulk_Destroys_Armour_Onslaught_Marvel_Universe_019.jpg

Another thing that's evident is savage hulk dialogue and characteristics(of him talking about being the strongest and referring to himself in the third person, savage hulk Is the only incarnation to do this while mindless hulk never talked at all until later on in marvels series, at this time, mindless hulk was still a dumb, growling monster).

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/Hulk3389/comic%20book%20scans/onslaught1a2ii.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/mrvlonslghpg24.jpg

http://www.incrediblehulkonline.com/mediumonslaughtarmorstrength2.jpg

Hulk wasn't banner less yet until the end of the fight:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/123129/2508516-Hulk-onslaught_5.j

Okay, probably the best feat I can list here is from 2014. Exitar was grown to planet-size: http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131219001121/marveldatabase/images/b/b4/Exitar_(Earth-616%29_from_Uncanny_Avengers_Vol_1_15_001.jpg.hhtml by Kang (long story) and when Doctor Doom needed a machine to defend against him, do you know what he used to power it? The fucking Hulk: http://i.imgur.com/mXouPK1.jpg . Exitar put some Impressive stress: http://i.imgur.com/A4FtUBN.jpg on it While it eventually failed: http://i.imgur.com/88vICtf.jp , Hulk had nothing to do with its failure. To be clear, Hulk can provide enough force to keep a planet-sized Celestial from reaching Earth, with no external stimuli to make him especially mad.

Resists energy from Stranger which could throw a planet out of orbit at base strength 1: http://i.imgur.com/oECq73H.jpg , 2: http://i.imgur.com/bp5lvlZ.jpg

And last but not least, savage hulk has already contended with captain universe before transferring his power to banner split Bruce and hulk and they both fight a while (though Bruce shows a bit more of an upper hand) until they have to work together in the end to stop a nuclear bomb(Incredible Hulk #10): http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/2/28028/701025-hulk_vs._captain_universe.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/28028/551589-cap_004.jpg

(Now people also make a misconception that MINDLESS HULK is the strongest incarnation while in reality, he's very limited, he gets weaker the longer he's split from banner as explained after the west coast avengers finally get him down: https://youtu.be/FM5WWRZEBI0)

And Grey hulk also clearly had problems in the beginning of the fight because he was getting weaker and starting to revert to banner due to his lack of knowledge on time in New York and tried to escape, but he took all of what spiderman was dishing out and was still being a wise guy:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/28028/689884-cosmichulk3.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/28028/689885-cosmichulk4.jpg

WWHULK beat many heroes of earth including sentry and later admits to have not even have tried his best.

(Hulk was holding back in the world war hulk series)Everything done in the World War Hulk storyline is Hulk holding back with his punches. Amadeus Cho confirms that with his abilities in Hulk Vs Hercules: When Titans C,http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Strength/WWHStrikingPower13WhenTitansCollide1.jpg

It's plain to see that worlbreaker Hulk is so powerful that even the power of planet-busting superhumans pale in comparison to him.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Strength/WWHStrikingPower21634.jpg

Furthermore, world war hulks world breaker mode is also crazy powerful, remember when he almost destroyed part of the east coast of earth just with a step? A few more steps and the place would've been underwater, he was also trying to hold his power in which should really show you something:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/60791/2973290-5581055555-17713.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/3648635-1198121181-WWHSh.jpg

And the time he kept destroying the dark domains planet with one punch to Betty's face(not even Hitting the planet), cracking the to planets visually seen in the distance as well : http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111132035/3553472-1416042525-23905.jpg

Another point I'm willing to make is The fact that he was able to contend with zues to a degree without even going WORLD BREAKER MODE. after zues promising to fight hulk fairly with just his strength, we clearly see that hulk takes the upper hand and forces zues to use his lightning:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/104108/3567785-incredible+hulks+%23622+007.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/104108/3567786-incredible+hulks+%23622+008.jpg

Zeus beat a Hulk who was trying to lose. On the other hand, Zeus was hit by a Hulk while he wasn't ready, but it does show that Hulk's level of strength certainly surpasses Zeus's durability.

And if Captain universe is in the same level as silver surfer like some people are stating then WWH easily stomps. Another factor to point out, believe SS has advantage against Hulk (as Hulk against Thor, and Thor against SS) since he has ''versatility'' advantage but WB Hulk seeing as underrated here.

First, Hulk is much stronger than before when SS drained him, especially we are considering ''World Breaker''. SS faced Skaar (old power) and Armageddon which SS failed while ''World Breaker'' manage to beat them.

Basically, surfer does at the end of the day show the wee bit of edge he has over skaar but it's also evident in the battle that it's not by much at all and he does strain all he has to face him. Actually, I feel that surfer is lucky for the power cosmic to be able to suppress the old power at all because if that wasn't an option, it's evident surfer would've been finished. Sooner.

Skaar (Old Power) vs. Silver Surfer:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/3629236-skaar+%237+013-14.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/3629237-skaar+%237+015x.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/3629238-skaar+%237+015xx.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/3629239-skaar+%237+016.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/3629240-skaar+%237+018.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/3629241-skaar+%237+019.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/3629242-skaar+%237+020.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/3629243-skaar+%237+021.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/3629244-skaar+%237+022.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/3629245-skaar+%237+023.jpg

Surfer manage burry old power with his power cosmic, but because of SS becoming exhausted due to their battle that seemed to go on for a while, Skaar captured him and enslaved him (again).

opposed to, wbhulk flat out beating skaar while making a one liner, saving some people and smirking one time:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/3629281-06-20-10+01+22.jpg

http://38.media.tumblr.com/2a437189241e911a9612b9d45ec2a7f4/tumblr_inline_mzodj6wfNm1rb6n02.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105334/2276663-incrediblehulk611024.jpg

In short....skaar never stood a chance: https://p.dreamwidth.org/333775ffca52/-/i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff312/firstmode/Skaar9018.jpg

Hulk beats Skaar in a close fight.

Armageddon once defeated the SS by using his cosmic blast against him:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/3629300-07-16-2011+15x.jpg

Hulk (World Breaker) vs. Armageddon:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/3629303-07-16-2011+12.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/3629304-07-16-2011+13.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/3629305-07-16-2011+14.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/3629306-07-16-2011+17.jpg

Hulk used Armageddon's own weapon for defeating him after powering through all Armageddons got.

Simply put, WWHULK TAKES THIS!

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BUTTERZ115

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Before I finish my turn, I'd like to apologize for not finishing yesterday night, I couldnt find the means to do it. Now, to wrap this up...

"That's all pretty good and i would say yes, if thor hasn't matched up Savage Hulk during a hour already or well can't be beaten by a stronger version of Hulk the mindless Hulk, and well while weakened Thor wasn't put down by Nul and Angrir. So by feats Hulk can't put Thor down, by fight Hulk can barely stand against Thor, by comparison Thor is still more powerful than Hulk, by the opinnion of writters Thor is more powerful than Hulk, all that is left is statements, in other words"

If you think that was pretty good then you will be suprised how much info I've neglected to reveal out of blow out, trust me, you ain't seen nothing yet. Now, with this analogy you have made, I can see how someone like yourself would feel lead to believe thor is stronger but your analogy is also flawed. HULK and THOR being tied in an matched state for an hour means absolute squat for eithers case, HULK gets stronger based on the increase of emotional state and pressure being exerted on him (common knowledge), this being said, none of these keys took place in that event simply put, THOR didn't exert overpowering pressure on HULK (He exerted stalemating strength to savage hulks) nor was it stated that HULK was getting more upset at all.

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number 2, MINDLESS HULK is not even the strongest HULK, MAESTRO is, MINDLESS HULK is just a more animal like SAVAGE HULK, though his strength is huge, it doesnt even get stronger, MINDLESS HULK gets weaker the longer hes away from banner as explained after HULKS battle with the WEST COAST AVENGERS including HERCULES (thors equal in strength).

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Furthermore, HULK barely cared for thors presence and thor could do nothing to harm him or remotely hurt him, vision stated at the end that only DR. STRANGE HAD THE POWER TO HELP OR HARM HIM.

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and number 3, NUL HULK was no where near as determined as thor to win that battl;e and still caused thor trouble, honestly its explained in my second comment so you can check it again there but all in all;, HULK WRECKS THOR.

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@divell: so anyway back to business, but first, lets have a rundown on what the debate has came down to so far.

- you tried to prove thor being stronger than hulk with most of your claims either being untrue or off base

- you brought up an old statement from stan lee back in gravage hulks era, brought up off topic points of thor like how he fought hel's undead army, twisted some feats of thors, and you brought up a very angry thor facing doom(trying to kill him) opposed to hulk being hesistant and wanting answers in his quarrel.

- I shut down almost every feat you brought up (no offence though you may take offence anyway)

and now I am about to lay down some points of mine after I show how hulk has beat doom way worse and easily than thor, enjoy audience.

AN ACTUAL FAIR ANALYSIS OF SAVAGE HULK AND THOR'S FACE-OFFS WITH DR. DOOM

Heres literally all it takes for a determined savage hulk to beat Dr. doom and almost be forced to kill him.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

And here's classic thor's crack at him...

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
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I mean, HULK renders DOOM running...

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Opposed to THOR being taken out long enough for DOOM to focus on his hammer in their second face off.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

I'll continue later tonight since I am on the move right now.

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@divell: lol well your list would be cut very short considering most of the feats are savage hulk and that the rest actually play into part here (gray hulk is weaker than savage hulk so showing his feats only gives you a view of what his weakest incarnation does and mindless hulk is still savage hulk, hes just more savage and mindless, animal like.)

also, comicvine stopped me and said I couldnt comment anymore until someone else added something to the post, said my straek of comments couldnt be any straighter, but since you finally commented, I'm free.

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PART 3

As cool as shaking the stars is, its not comparable to shaking dimensions/universes...with a single impact punch, or anything for that matter. Heres a simple way to compare this:

thor shakes stars(not even stated to be all the stars of the universe) in one said universe, while hulk shook everything....in EVERY dimension, dont forget it said "INFINITE" meaning the whole MCU damn near.

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As you can see a blast powerful enough to rip realities is not that biggie specially since Thor has took on greater powers.

its clearly evident that not only was thor close to dieing until he aquirred king thors hammer to be able to fully absorb it in time, noble but he had some outside help through out that battle plus that bom had no description of reality ripping of any kind.

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this easily describes that this device is greater resistant than the power of the GODS but hulks power is indefinitely passed it. hulk has always been described just as powerful or more powerful than thor due to other spectators, hell even hogun:

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when we speak in terms of powers of power, we generally say thor is more powerful than hulk meaning he has more versatile powers while we categorize strength seperately from power but when we bring them all together (strength and all), its generally described that both of their power or ever dwindling kneck and kneck with each other, hulks strength and abilities help him contend with thors might and passed down traditional aresenals.

WWH is another version of savage hulk just like gravage hulk plus hulk didnt use his world breaker powers at all so he was basically average hulk, furthermore, classic thor is just as powerful as current odinforce thor basically and possibly shows more feats so comparing the two was actual more in line than not.

SINCE WE ARE ON THE SUBJECT OF COMPARING DR DOOM FIGHTS

That hulk vs doom battle you brought up is very controversial, sure hulk was a little upset with doom but over the course of the fight, you see that hulk was more into trying to find out if doom messed with banners sanity or not and you gradually see that hulk is gradually getting more hesitant.

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Compared to Doom edging thor on while beating him a while until thor gets his second wind and crushes dooms earthly made destroyer that obviously wasnt perfect. Doom was just questionable less intelligent with his plans than usual.

That's all pretty good and i would say yes, if thor hasn't matched up Savage Hulk during a hour already or well can't be beaten by a stronger version of Hulk the mindless Hulk, and well while weakened Thor wasn't put down by Nul and Angrir. So by feats Hulk can't put Thor down, by fight Hulk can barely stand against Thor, by comparison Thor is still more powerful than Hulk, by the opinnion of writters Thor is more powerful than Hulk, all that is left is statements, in other words

lol what?!? I will touch base on this and bring up the classic hulk and thor vs doom fight scans in my next comment that I will make right after i send this, my computer cant take this so I'm makling a part 4.

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@heirtothekingdom: abomination actually started out just as strong as hulks base strength until galaxy master heightened his power later on in the comics(1982, The Incredible Hulk #270 - The Goliath, the Gargoyle and the Galaxy Master!)

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thor and abomination was way before this(In The Mighty Thor #178, 1970)

the thing is, writers grew this trend of abomination cheap shot KO'S for no specific reason, even WM has supposedly caught him off gaurd one time

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You could say abomination has gone weaker than he used to be in classic era and that would make sense but its no excuse considering everyone has been drastically weakened in the current marvel era (from beginning late 90's to now). though everyone else also gets stronger or more powerful over time too, making abomination seem like hes getting weaker. for example:

No Caption Provided

(hulk gets stronger over the years naturally)

Yeah I think we should end the debate here, I only wanted to start that one for educational purposes (like knowing more on ULIK for the future). What do you mean "are you sure"? I put thought in my decisions, of course I am sure, I gave you WM's greatest moments in history to compare with ULIK.

BUT IF YOU WANT AN ACTUAL DEBATE, WE CAN DO HULK VS DAIMON FIRST THEN HULK VS SERSI LIKE WE WANTED IN THE BEGINNING...

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@divell: Yeah lol, I felt like my noob was showing and I guess making intros for characters is normal around here,I'm just trying to get used to this new community.

PART 2

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I disagree with that neutron star assessment that you personal made due to many differences they had, thor gets a "gravitational attraction of a neutron star" meaning he was as magnetized as neutron star while hulk took the energy weight of a neutron star pushing on his body, its pretty cool he was able to stay on his knees

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he also didnt get enough time to do much else anyway before he was forcefully reverted back to banner.

So that alone, we can say hulks strength greater, thor was only magnitized, causing metallic scraps and parts to pile up on him.

Tom Brevoort isnt a viable source and is making personal statements, I dont believe the hammer made hulk any stronger, it made him more powerful packing an enchanted hammer just as strong as thors but thor is an expert combatant when it comes to weapons so his skill no doubt played a bigger role in this but hulk still managed to put him down on a knee, thor even admitted that hulk was strongest in the process right before launching him with all he had in mixture of his lightning amplifying him:

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thor wasnt even weakened before this, he tried to face serpent but serpent BFR'd him

and you cant say the thing wear'd him down...thor only literally had to hit him 2 times and he was out and of course mjlnor breaks through the thing easier then rhulks fight with him, do you think rhulks made of URU or has the ability to grow in strength? Hell, hes limited to how hot he can be before he overheats (rhulks a disgrace to hulks and so is betty/she rhulk)

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thors the one actually trying to kill hulk full fury right after, furthermore, right when thor collapses and nul hulk lands, he gets right back up wreaking havoc on draculas kingdom:

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HE SURPRISES YOU EVERY TIME

THOR fighting an undead army without his powers sounds cool and shows you just how skilled in combat he is but bruce banner in normal form beats that truly powerless with his tech at his disposal, I'll also bring up some fun ability facts on hulk.

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Bannertech: As both Banner and the Hulk he has access to various "Bannertech" devices... Constant scan of everyone within 50 ft... Resists bullet fire with a force field, also hacks a super secure facility on full lock down with an ipod: Bannertech shields can hold off even other Hulks...

Most recently the Hulk and Banner have been working in tandem, with Banner working by day (more or less) as a scientist for SHIELD, and the Hulk being used as they're weapon of Mass Destruction by night. This is worked out by among other things a HoloBanner to remind Hulk to hand the reigns back over.

Astral Form Perception

The Hulk has the unique ability of being able to see "astral forms"--or ghosts. Hulk is able to see Dr strange astral form when no one can, which comes in handy when working with his fellow defender strange. The reason for hulk developing this ability could be because of the fact that banner feared his fathers ghost would come back and hunt him. however, hulks astral from perception has not shown it's limitations yet, seeing as how he once experienced a whole town in the middle of the desert until it faded away. while it is possible that this was merely a mirage, it is also credible that hulk witnessed a town that didn't exist in our reality . there was a case during world war hulk when hulk broke Dr strange's hands while he was in his astral form.

part 3 comes tommorrow...

the reason i am doing parts and not sending it all together is because my computer is suffering with all this info and truth be told, i was almost done with my reply this morning until my computer crashed and i had to start over so i am just playing it safe now plus i need some sleep for now, good night to all of you.

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#10  Edited By BUTTERZ115
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@heirtothekingdom: Good stuff, you sold me on ulik being stronger than WM and obviously more durable but i believe wondermans power, speed, and exceptionally damaging strength play great key roles against ULIK likewise. Overall though, you sold me on ULIK beating simon overall (after all, this was a great way for me to learn more on ULIK), I explained WM at his peak and thats all I could do to help him.

ULIK WINS

also, few more things I want to touch base on before I go.

Abomination has really been getting an unneccesarily bad rep......and I hate the character. look, hes not as weak as hes been publicly known to be, the only reason thor one hit knocked him out so easily was because abomination was still mind manipualted by stranger and didnt suspect thor of any engagement of attack so thor caught him off guard and punched him out of it, I dont know anything about that hercules one though but i dont think that knocked him out unless you got the second scan to that.