BR_Havoc's forum posts

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#1 Posted by BR_Havoc (1756 posts) - - Show Bio

Sure they can, the issue with them in general is that they are making so many at a time they can't judge the feedback and adjust the next film accordingly.

If Snyder and Goyer actually listened to peoples negative feedback from Man of Steel, Batman vs Superman could of been saved. They didn't they doubled down on it and fans hated it. Wonder Woman doesn't have a real hope since it finished filming like a week before Batman vs Superman came out. The real test to see if they can steer the ship in the right direction will be Justice League. Due to them now having the feedback from a number of films.

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#2 Edited by BR_Havoc (1756 posts) - - Show Bio

@galerion said:

@br_havoc:

ANAD was an entire line-wide relaunch and DC didn't see any land there. Marvel Now is not a line-wide relaunch like ANAD or Rebirth was so it's pointless to compare to each other.

No it's fair game to compare them, a new status quo spinning out of a shitty event, A whole new crop of number 1's with 1 in 100 or even 1 in 1000 variants and any book that is continuing ( GwenPool, Power man and Iron Fist) gets a number one slapped in on the top corner saying its the first issue of the Now era. It's a relaunch you just don't want to admit it because of your Marvel bias.

I on the other hand don't care, I just want to read good books something Marvel is lacking right now on there top tier characters. Lucky they still have some excellent fringe titles.

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#3 Edited by BR_Havoc (1756 posts) - - Show Bio

@br_havoc said:

Is Bendis really going to ignore the fact that she is in her twenties and he is fifteen. If this was in reverse with a 20 year old man kissing Kamala people would be loosing there shit and starting some dumb ass twitter hash tag.

This event screams cheap P. R stunt just like when Superman and Wonder Woman where kissing on the cover of Justice League.

Miles is 17 and Gwen is 19. It really isn't that big of a deal.

When has her age been stated? they have shown her drinking before so I was under the impression that she was 21 and last Miles book I read he was 15 at the max. So does he age in real time?

Either that stuff aside don't change the fact that this is a cheap P.R stunt which most people are seeing threw now and rejecting.

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#4 Edited by BR_Havoc (1756 posts) - - Show Bio

@timelordscience: True they are yet at Marvel lately they are one in the same, a long winded decompressed story line where a character is deconstructed and often never build back up due to a relaunch.

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#5 Posted by BR_Havoc (1756 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimebeherit: That is fair enough and I understand where you are coming from, Sorry if I came across attacking you, in any of my replies because that was never my intention. I think that books can take huge tonal shifts if it feels organic to the character or the series. Yet with this change up, I find it anything but. This is a Bendis mess that Marvel pitched to a writer they specializes in angst to try to make something of, and I'm tried of Marvel's bullshit right now. In the days where Marvel is pushing to get the 5 dollar monthly book, I think part of there fan base are leaving or having less patience when it comes to status quo shake ups, because they have been burned so many times in the past.

Marvel recently has learned all the wrong lessons when it comes to relaunches or status quo changes, part of there marketing is making fans mad because they think that equals free press or that they will hate read a title, Like many did with Superior Spider-Man. Now is the time for fans that are fed up to start speaking there minds and saying no I don't want this, and I'm not paying for it. Because only then will Marvel get the message, that we are sick of half assed events that derail the full line of titles, Sick of a relaunch every 12 months and sick of them letting top talent go with no one to replace them but Bendis. Like many others I think it is time for Marvel to change up there direction to something similar to Rebirth, focusing on the big gun characters with core characterization, instead of trying to sell comics solely by sensationalism. I'm sure you can even agree to some of those thoughts?

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#6 Edited by BR_Havoc (1756 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimebeherit said:

@br_havoc: So we have tons of issues of her being fun Jen and a few seeing a different side of her. You say it's redundant, because a few "quick arcs" have flirted with the idea, but another fun Jen book though? Nah that's not redundant. Here you would argue, well the same but slightly different, and to that I say, can't this broken Jen be the same but slightly different than the 4 issues you cite? I mean at first you said "It won't [work] dude, they did this story line before and it was not very interesting for a single arc let alone be the premise of a series" but now your saying it can but it's been done, so don't explore it anymore. It really just sounds like you hope it won't be any good, so that it could go back to something you're more comfortable with.

Let me put it this way to you, Every character in pop culture has both physical and personality traits that define them. These traits are what draw there fan base combined with there adventures. Here we have a status quo change up that is looking to remove Jennifer's defining personality traits replacing them with the "savage" ones her cousin has. The idea has been explored but often done as a quick arc's due to the fact it's out of character for Jen to be in these positions. This title it's core focus is Jen dealing with trauma and her feelings of depression, angst and anger. Something that normally she can keep in check, In fact that is one of her personality traits. Here that is voided in favor of what sounds to be volume of her trying to find the happier person she used to be. The issue here is many of her fan's don't care to see that journey because we have seen her cousin do it for 40 years which must be why they are calling the book Hulk, What makes Jen a great character is that she isn't her cousin, she is kind of the opposite of him.

No one is saying this could not be good, but the way it has been set up with CW2 and solicited it doesn't sound appealing to many of her fans. Marvel cares about Pre orders it's why they have been doing this half hearted, half assed shake ups that often are not even plotted past the first issue. In hopes that it leads to people buying there books, the problem is we as consumers are tired of it. Sensationalism is great in small doses but marketing much of your whole damn line off of it, is exhausting and turning readers cynical which is evident in how many want new books that do it to fail. I seriously doubt people would be up in arms over this, if this was already a title and this was an arc that was going to last 6 issues.

Now personally I have never liked this exploration because frankly there is only so many issues of a mopey depressed character I can sit threw, (If I wanted that stuff I will quit taking my anti depressants). Before I get bored and want something different, hence why I feel it works better as a short arc then an overall theme.

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#7 Posted by BR_Havoc (1756 posts) - - Show Bio

@br_havoc said:

@slimebeherit: That is because it has never warranted a full series based off this unoriginal premise. We have seen it and learned that angst is not something that works for Jen but that is what we are getting an angst/depressed version of She-Hulk who can't control herself.......huh sounds just like her cousin a character she is not.

Then there shouldn't have been a She-Hulk, or Red Hulk or a Red She-Hulk cause those ideas are unoriginal. The whole point is that she isn't gonna deal with rage/depression the same way Bruce Banner would. We haven't learned jack, don't pretend the bogus examples you gave me are good enough indicators that her dealing with deep-seated anger is something that won't work.

If they have told the same story in four issues with Byrne's years ago, why do we need to redo it over twelve now? I'm not saying this idea should not never of been thought of, but when its been explored a number of times with quick arcs, that got the point across wasting a full series on it seems redundant.

I'm saying its not going to work from the start simply because they have already split the She-Hulk fan base that would of pre ordered it off the characters name alone. Her personality is a huge draw to them, comedy based witty writing of Slott, David, Byrne and even Soule is what these fans want and expect, With this preview combined writers interviews many feel that it will be missing, To make Jen a more generic Hulk simply so she fits the titles name and overall themes. Add on with how Marvel's status quos go now, where this will not be for an arc or two but the duration of the volume because it's not going to last long before they relaunch with a new writer and a new direction.

The hate this series is getting is a boil over of how Marvel has treated there lines over the past 3 years. They have gotten lazy the stories have suffered, With them going against what makes a character unique to a more decompressed style of writing, and fans are sick of it. Where as DC has done the opposite with Rebirth and it has been refreshing and beloved so far.

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#8 Edited by BR_Havoc (1756 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimebeherit: That is because it has never warranted a full series based off this unoriginal premise. We have seen it and learned that angst is not something that works for Jen but that is what we are getting an angst/depressed version of She-Hulk who can't control herself.......huh sounds just like her cousin a character she is not.

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#9 Posted by BR_Havoc (1756 posts) - - Show Bio

Cho has expanded on what happened that basically he and his cover artist editor where not told that Rucka has full editorial control on the title. If he knew this previously he would of never went over to DC in the first place. This is a clash of ego's that's about it and Rucka wanting to be involved in everything about the title, Something Cho was unaware of, because if Rucka truly had an issue with the slight panties being shown then his is hypocrite due to the fact WW is as close as naked as you can be in issue 2. So no one really has to pick a side since the people at fault are DC's management for not letting both parties know how the book was being run.

As for people wanting to make this a feminist debate with Cho, Please remember every time you get outraged or throw hate his way, you have proved him right. He is showing that we live in an outrage culture and he has found away to profit over peoples false and often misguided hate.

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#10 Posted by BR_Havoc (1756 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonny_anonymous: I second that his Vision book is Marvels best title right now.