Unless you're saying that they heard it go up and Killua wasn't behind them by that time.
That's just false, as I already said before, they would've immediatly look up if that was the case, which they didn't. You can see how they look up in the next panel.
I'm saying in one panel, we have Killua moving up the tree, with sound indicators and they have reaction indicators. Due to this, in the next sequence, they think he's above them, and he uses this fact to get behind them.
A cool feat could've been Killua appearing behind them, yet, they hear him above them, in that order. That would require him to make a sound above them, and then appear behind them before the sounds reach them. This would necessarily be supersonic.
This makes no sense. I already showed Gon's feat when he was a beginner in nen being able to sense 50 high speeding tops all around him. For more than an hour.
Sure, and that's fair. But he's giving it all of his attention and concentration, they're always within meters, and the reason why he has to do this in the first place is because he keeps getting attacked from angles he can't see. Their speed doesn't appear to be an issue.
If Kite sensed Pitou, it would be the same thing. There's no reason to believe that's not the case, and being in "panic mode" means nothing. Like this is combat applicable, in life or death situations. Them being in panic mode wouldn't mean they get worst sensing, in fact it should actually be the opposite as they should be more wary of this threat.
Maybe we have a different idea of what "panic" means. In the sequence with Gon, he uses his full focus to be able to track the tops, even closing his eyes to do so. It's clear that he's more than fast enough to deal with them, but they keep coming from areas he can't see. We have indicators throughout this event of him tracking the positions of the tops around him.
With Kite, the only indicator was him sensing Pitou's intense and scary aura, but never anything related to her movement. This happens before Kite focuses on the boys, interacting with them, looking at them, and yelling for them to leave. Even having time to yell at them again while Pitou is mid-jump, supposedly from kilometers away.
I already explained it, you're just being obtuse and trying to downplay the speed.
I have no interest in downplaying anything. I'm trying to explain that this interpretation of events isn't accurate, or rather, it isn't objectively what happens. You're filling in the gaps yourself.
Kite turns towards them and yells, but they don't understand, Kite yells again, still facing them, and Pitou appears. Nowhere in this sequence do we see them making eye contact with her or having eyes on her at all. You're making an assumption, but it's not supported by any indications, markers, or other hints. You're saying they're looking at her, and not Kite, but not proving why that's the case. While it's far more likely they're still just looking at Kite since he's the one interacting with them.
They reacted to the sound at the base of the tree, or else they would've looked up immediatly.
They heard the sound at the base of the tree, then heard it go up or just assumed killua went up, and killua was behind them by the time this all happened.
In the same panel where we both see Killua pacing up the tree with sound indications, they have reaction markers around their heads. From this, they believe Killia is above them, but he appears behind them.
Well your premise is that HxH characters aren't that fast, and that calc isn't reliable via that reason, so HxH characters aren't that fast.
What I'm saying is that the calc should have a higher reaction rating and that the numbers they used doesn't really matter as the actual result should be higher.
It doesn't make sense for you to not use this method of scaling just because it's an outlier or inconsistent. Pitou and the royal guards are above the rest of the verse by a large margin, so them getting a result this high, even if it's an outlier, would still be applicable.
My reasoning has never been "they shouldn't be this fast, therefore they aren't this fast". The approach I tend to take is that I first check if there are any obvious mistakes with the framing of events, and in this case, there is a blatant one regarding them not having eyes on Pitou or Pitou's location pre-to post-jump. Maybe I was unclear with the latter part of that section, which is that if the feat played out as I explained above, I would find it valid (at least the timeframe) and accurate, but personally treat it as an outlier. But that has nothing to do with the merit of the calc, as I would accept it.
I didn't have them at hundreds of times the speed of light.
My bad. 3.85-70.8 times the speed of light to be exact.
What you say is what literally happens but instead of eyesight, it's with nen sensing which I already proved is a superior sense.
And him warning the boys again doesn't mean he sensed pitou jumping (which if he did, then he still got blitz unless you think that he would deliberatly let his arm get chopped off), they just didn't listen to his first warning so he warned them again.
I agree with you in regards to characters being able to sense nen, which is why they have to suppress it not to be noticed. While they can feel their presence, or track them, it doesn't mean it's equal to having eyes on your target at all times within several kilometers, especially not in panic mode.
You keep saying he got blitzed as if I disagree with that. She was blitzing them, but the exact timeframe can't be their reaction time, as they're not looking at her pre to post-jump. I made an illustration above to show PrinceX, but they're signed out of this discussion it seems.
On the second part, Silva could blitz Cheetu and Zeno even said it doesn't matter if he looked that Silva was coming as the same thing would happen, Kite would easily be on the level of Silva as the phantom troupe members had more trouble with lower ranked chimera ants than Kite did, with that in mind Silva said that killing a phantom troupe member was the hardest job he ever did and that it was not worth the pay. + the panels i showd with how Pitou wanted to feel that again so she had to ressurect Kite in some way to fight him again because it was so special. Kite is definitly on Cheetu's level if not faster.
I mean, this is fine. But the panels of Pitou speaking to themselves don't indicate this, or rather, there isn't evidence alluding to it if you ask me. It's more so if you already have a conclusion and work backward from it, then I could understand the perspective. But that's not a good approach.
omg, just look at the panels.
Here we see Kite warn them, Gon and Killua are looking towards the nest at this point. We then get a full panel of Pitou's eye looming over them. Its pretty clear that they are aware of Pitou at this point with Kite calling it out + the eye to symbolize Pitou's prescense...
Another panel is shown with Pitou preparing to jump, this gives the duo even more time to locate Pitou as they would be doing with the warning from Kite.
We then see Pitou take the jump, we then see Kite's reaction to her jump. He noticed that she jumped at this point and this is his reaction to it. While Gon and Killua has not yet processed what has happened yet.
We then get Kite's arm cut off, this means Pitou literally blitzes Kite from that distance btw, Kite who would be superior to Cheetu even. so a double digit mach speed.
We then see Gon and Killua's reaction to Pitou's jump after it had all happened.
I cut out the panels to make the reply digestible.
You're assuming Gon and Killua know what Kite's referring to. Or that any of them have eyes on Pitou. But this is pure speculation or fanfic on your part, as there's no evidence or indications of this taking place. Kite is yelling at them once, and they don't understand, he's yelling again while still looking at them, and they still haven't done anything concerning his request, and then Pitou swoops in. You would have to admit you're filling in the gaps here if you're insistent on the boys seeing Pitou before she leaps.
And Cheetu isn't double-digit Mach speeds. This has been addressed earlier in the thread where I dealt with another one of Charmanders calculations + the official numbers provided to us throughout the manga. Heavily relying on bad calculations whilst ignoring the author's intent and official statements ends in poor results.
And i will give an example of Killua's insane vision.
He can literally spot ikalgo instantly from this distance, assuming they can't locate Pitou in an even longer amount of time is insane downplay. There are probably more vision feats, but this was the fastest i could find.
I have no issue with any HxH character having superior vision, able to lay eyes on things kilometers away. But there's simply no evidence that anyone had eyes on Pitou from pre-jump to post-jump, as illustrated above.
Anyways its very clear that you just want to downplay hxh to the fullest, i don't think there is a point arguing with you lol.
You probably haven't seen or interacted with me when I'm discussing other verses then. Like JJK, MHA, OPM, Naruto, MCU, etc then. My whole thing is that if a feat requires imagination/subjective interpretation, or simply isn't objective in its execution, it shouldn't be relied on. Maybe as supporting material, but not as a several tenfold or hundred times multiplier to other consistent feats or official statements.
It's in the same way I think my favorite verse, MHA, likely is still operating within single-digit mach speeds. There are feats and calcs suggesting otherwise, but holistically, it doesn't pan out.
Im talking about Gon and Killua, as i clearly explained earlier they 100% know about Pitou and looked at her.
I don't want to be rude. But there are zero indications that Gon and Killua are looking at Pitou pre-jump and I think you know that fact. They're looking at and talking to Kite, who's looking back at them, yelling for them to run, from beginning to end.
Kite should be superior to Cheetu through statements like these even in speed.
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There is no way she would talk like this about Kite if she had dozens of commanders that are better than Kite lol. Kite > any chimera ant that isn't a royal guard or the king.
I think we have major differences in how we interpret things. I'm not particularly eager to make assumptions like these when that's all they are. Kite may be superior to Cheetu, but I don't believe those panels reinforce that. I interpret it as Pitou enjoying her newfound interest in killing, and it was technically the first fight against someone prominent we know of.
They don't see killua move up the tree, nor even see him at that matter, or else he would've appeared on panel instead of the sound of the footsteps (Ik that you can see his foot but that's it, and what I said still applies).
Then they hear Killua going up the tree, which is a trick Killua did as he normally doesn't produce sound as shown when he's running right next to Melody. Melody has very good hearing and iirc she can listen to people's heartbeat from a far distant. This here is just an example of how good her hearing is.
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So once they hear the sound, they look up, but Killua is already behind them. If we go by your interpretation, it means that they saw killua go up and would've obviously seen Killua go back down, which isn't the case.
Killua is moving up the tree. The other characters have reaction markers around their heads while his footing is making sounds, again, indicated by sound markers. He disappears into the trees and they think he's above them, but appears behind them. This isn't something supersonic, this is stealth.
Okay, even if it's their subconscious action time, kite's reaction time would still be faster.
I mean, sure? But you're addressing me addressing a calc stating something incorrect.
As to him being faster than normal people, I agree. But the reason why people aren't relying on previous fanmade calcs to use results in future fanmade calcs is because it ends up with results like you've pushed before. IIRC, you had certain HxH characters at several hundred times the speed of light using that method.
huh, Kite senses Pitou. Kite would also sense Pitou's leap if she was slower. Kite couldn't react to Pitou, so Pitou blitz kite and would be moving in his reaction time. Btw nen sensing (which is most likely what Kite does) is better than normal sensing.
I've addressed this above. If Kite was looking at Pitou before she jumped, and she crossed the entire distance before he could register her leaving, then it would be fine to use his reaction time as a timeframe. But alas, he senses her and turns around to warn the boys, she leaps, he warns the boys again while facing them, and she swoops in. If you want to argue he should be able to "sense" her leap the instant it took place while occupied with the boys, there should've been an indication of such. Instead, he chooses to warn the boys again after she leaped.
Now, just for integrity, If the feat happened as I've explained, I'd accept it as valid, but call it an outlier or inconsistency.
You're just agreeing with me on the nen crush stuff.
You said:
a no limits fallacy is when you say something like "Nen crush works on everyone outside of the Hunter x Hunter verse", not when you use it in an argument against 1 character
I disagreed and said it applies to standard 1v1 battles and provided two examples, and a counter-example of how I still think it could be used while avoiding it being an actual NLF.
im sorry but that is exactly what is happening in the panels i sent you.
What? No?
Kite senses Pitou. He looks away and warns the boys. From this moment on, there's not a single instance where he looks back, nor a single indication of the boys ever laying eyes on Pitou until she arrives.
In my example, the character never takes their eyes off the target. Yet, the target can reach the character before they can register it happening, still looking at their initial location.
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