BatWatch

Doesn't apply to me. I liked MoS 8/10. I'd give Batman V. Superman 4/10.

I don't remember him being happy with Lois. I remember him coming home to his girlfriend and having to have another dour conversation about how he could love a mere mortal woman. I think he might have smiled when he was climbing in the tub, but beyond that, what happy moment did these two share on screen? And for that matter, let's not miss that most of this scene was them being sad.

Superman can occasionally be sad and serious, but he's supposed to be charming and inspiring. Why couldn't he have been charming, noble and inspiring in the movie because he was rarely if ever any of those things.

Who was carrying him?

Yeah, Bruce and Lex did go about implementing their goals differently. Lex killed a bunch of people and destroyed much of the city in an attempt to lure Superman into a fatal trap while Bruce killed a bunch of people and destroyed much of the city in an attempt to lure Superman into a fatal trap. The contrast between these two figures is vast.

Superman is angsty, "Why don't people like me?" all movie long. He doesn't show joy in his actions. He never says anything inspirational. He does save people's lives (which is more that can be said for Batman for ninety percent of the movie), but he does so joylessly.

To your point, it is true that Superman smiles once in the movie when saving the girl. As a counter point, I'd like to point out that Superman smiles once throughout the entirety of the movie! Where's the happy inspiration?

I wasn't the biggest fan of The Dark Knight trilogy. I thought The Dark Knight was amazing, but the other two films were just okay. In my book, I thought so little of Batman V. Superman that the next movie would have to be brilliant to surpass TDK trilogy.

In my book, BvS is around the worst of what Marvel has offered. Somewhere around Elektra, I think.

Glad you enjoyed it, but I can't get on the ruined Batman and lackluster Superman. Character drives any serious story, and these characters suck. Also, I didn't find the soundtrack impressive. The only music I can recall is from the Trinity intro which was amazing. Everything else, mostly forgotten. I have some other section of music playing in my head now, but I honestly have no idea if it's from BvS or something else. Can't place it within the film.

I too wish they had cut out some of the minor characters to focus on Justice League. I have no problem with Lois or military dude, but in a movie this jam packed, they need to focus on the biggest characters.

Snyder switching to producer might be a good idea though it seems there might be an ego conflict over the demotion.

It might hurt his career, but I don't see him going away. He's made some quality work, it's just he doesn't get characters and scripting.

He'll be around. A lot less talented directors still get work.

We will have to see. If it underperforms or gets too much fan resistance, it will hurt it.

I seriously doubt general audiences have any idea that Darkseid exists, actually. More importantly, this really doesn't justify the movie. People already knew Batman, Wonder Woman and the Justice League exist. Creating an entire movie just to say, "Look. Here's a guy you kind of know. Now he's in live action! Come see Justice League, folks!" is silly.

That is a word. Congratulations on knowing it, but you have to know when to apply it, and if you read OP and understand the word's meaning, you'd know it doesn't apply.

One movie builds another in a franchise, so if this one underperforms or over performs, it will affect the others.

I'm glad you enjoyed it, but I think I'll be 100% fine if I never watch it again.

In my view, all the very real positives the movie had don't overwhelm the brutalizing of the characters. You can't make Batman a villain with motivations on par with Lex Luthor and expect me to like it. You also can't make Superman a figure of depression and pity. It misses the heart of the characters.

Good insight. Excellent analysis. Good breakdown of the intricacies of the situation. I appreciate the time you invested in formulating and articulating your unique perspective.

I still love seeing heroes on the big screen, but I'm with you in feeling no investment in this franchise. I think this universe's Batman is dead to me. My favorite character was Tim Drake, but New 52 wrote Teen Titans 0 which redid his origin, and Tim was such a tool and again kind of villainish in that story that I just couldn't stomach him anymore. I feel the same way about murdering Batman.

His acting was great, but, "I'm going to kill you because you could possible be a threat," is villainous thinking, and I can't stomach it in a character who is supposedly a heroic role model. It genuinely disgusts me.

You know, I'd never considered it from that perspective. You add a lot of insight into this conversation. You could share another one of your gems. If you wrote two words, it would likely blow my mind because you said so much with just one.

If you didn't like it, I don't know why you'd bother seeing it again. My time and money is worth too much to waste if on a bad movie. I spent about a fifth of the movie bored, and the other eighty percent wasn't particularly entertaining.

@asgaard said:

BATMAN V SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE

http://www.cinemascore.com/

Green Lantern B

Man of Steel A-

The Dark Knight & The Dark Knight Rises A

So is that a franchise killer? We didn't see a Green Lantern 2.

My biggest thing is that Batman is spoiled for me because he acted villainous. Superman is nearly ruined since he isn't inspiring. They can't go back to blank slates with these movies. They can change direction, but they have to do it in a way that makes murdering crazy Batman and mopey inspires nobody Superman into worthwhile heroic figures.

I think the acting for Batman was the best ever, but I can't deal with murdering Superman, and again, I can move past the killing. It's the murdering I cannot stand, but I agree with your other points.

They won't want to scrap it entirely, but they could. They are definitely going to do a course correction at bare minimum, and I hope it works, but these characters are pretty damaged to my eyes.

Fingers crossed.

I'm fine with Snyder leaving. I like his visual style, but he has no sense for characters, and characters are more important.

I definitely think Wonder Woman will sell.

I don't have any particular concerns with Joker and Deadshot. Why are you concerned?

Whoever is in charge of tone needs to go. Whoever wrote that script or whittled down the script to the current incoherence needs to go too.

Personally, I actually like Superman more than Batman in that universe because Batman was a murderous dick, but yeah, I didn't feel much for Supes' death either. We didn't get to see much of him as an individual. I kept thinking throughout the movie, "It's amazing how little I care," because I didn't feel like I knew any of these characters well except Batman by the end of the movie, and Batman was a douche nozzel.

Because Transformers 2 made tons of cash. BvS may or may not. Also, comic book fans are a lot more loyal than Transformers fans and won't get on board a bad train. As I said in OP, Superman Returns is the perfect example.

I agree. You can be more serious without being joyless and jokes. I've been reminded of Dan Didio's comments where he said heroes shouldn't be married because they shouldn't be happy. Heroism is a sacrifice, and I can't help but think this franchise is inspired by the same thinking. Also, you can pretty much bet Wonder Woman will also be depressing. Why? Because Wonder Woman in BvS lost faith in the good of humanity and left man's world for a hundred years meaning something tragic must have happened in her origin movie. Get ready for more depression.

Excellent insight. I hadn't considered it from that angle. How many hours did that response take to formulate. Really, top of the line stuff man. Kudos. Plus 100. You win one internet. Substance man. You've got substance!

Theatre I went to last night was only about twenty percent full. Granted, it was Thursday, but for opening night? That's no bueno.

@deathpoolthet1000:

"Is the Anti Nolan logic.

"Nolan Batman is Grounded and cant go and destroy people with his mind.

"So he sucks.

"For many people, what matter are the superficial elements of the character.

"Characterization dont matter to them, because to them, Batman is just a kicking bottoms machine that is hyper dark and hyper edgy."

Maybe that is how most people perceive him. Personally, I wasn't too thrilled with Nolan's Batman either. The Dark Knight was the only film in the franchise I really loved. The other two were okay. Batman seemed more fully realized in TDK than the other two movies, in my view. Regardless, at least Nolan Batman was a good guy.

I hope you are right about Suicide Squad. I went from excited to neutral now that I've seen BvS.

You seem to acknowledge some major problems with BvS, yet you enjoyed it. What wins you over?

Not as it's currently headed, no.

Wonder Woman has left the station. The other movies could be scrapped with minimal loss if they think the franchise is a bust.

Looks to be about a sixty/forty split on this board as being pro-BvS/anti-BvS. That's not particularly impressive considering we are the target demographic.

I'm hoping Snyder is done. Love his visuals but hate most everything else.

I'm pro-them Future Pasting this, honestly even though it's a huge embarrassment to do it this early, and really, that is kind of scrapping the franchise.

I really like what I've seen of Suicide Squad, but that's basically based on trailers, and the trailers for Batman V. Superman were also stellar. Wonder Woman ticks me off because we know from BvS that she loses faith in mankind by the end of the movie which means we have three out of four movies in this franchise which will be major downers, and though I hope it will be fun, does anybody really thin Suicide Squad will be uplifting and inspiring? DC has painted a tragically bleak world.

I'm hoping too, but I really don't want to see another Batman story now that I see Bats as a villain which sucks because I enjoyed Batfleck's acting.

Can they keep the franchise going without big tent polls like Justice League? That's the big money maker right there, supposedly. They wont scrap everything, but I think Wonder Woman is the only one in production, so if this movie makes little money and Suicide Squad also under performs, I can see them scrapping the universe after allowing the WW movie to proceed since they'll already be too far along.

Rumors are before the BvS even released, they were discussing retooling the movies past Suicide Squad to change up their overall long term plan. They need something happy.