bag_o_x_men

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bag_o_x_men

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#1  Edited By bag_o_x_men
@buttersdaman000: 
Exactly.  The god of prep apparently will just sneak up and one shot Cyke.  As though he doesn't train with ninjas and martial artists, some of whom are Batman's equal, all the time.  Like he hasn't trained with people who are functionally invisible.  Like he doesn't train blind, just in case he can't use his blasts.  Like he doesn't fight blind. And like he doesn't  have a mutant ability that gives him perfect spatial geometry allowing him to know precisely where everything in his environment is.  It's far more likely that Scott uses his prep and knowledge learned about Bats to plan a trap, expecting Bats to try a sneak attack and have a series of ricochet shots planned to put him down.  Since they're both "full of rage",  prep pretty much goes out the window.  When someone's in a rage, they generally don't think or plan very well.  And I know these scans have already been posted, but I should point out that in neither of these situations, was Scott angry.  Imagine if Scott, the same guy who decided that it was time the X-men had a murder squad with the formation of the new X-Force team, what if he were really in a rage?  Meanwhile Batman can't even finish the Joker after he's murdered and crippled the people closest to him.  Batman rage usually ends in Batman crying somewhere because the world is unfair.  Scott's looks like ground zero of a nuclear explosion.
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#2  Edited By bag_o_x_men
@nightwing91 said:
" @bag_o_x_men: He doesn't know who's the greatest threat, he doesn't know, from looks beast would be the greatest threat. He's hurt by bullets and his healing factor just heals damage over hours, it's a fairly weak healing factor, Bane is very much strong enough to hurt him at 2 tons, you should read more beast Cap hurt him with his blows, and Bane is stronger then Cap.   Read more Bane,he's a very skilled fighter, like i;ve mentioned he's had draws with batman while not on venom, he's still highly skilled, utilizing his strength and the advanatge afforded to him by his highy tactical mind. "
I think Deathstroke is good enough that he would recognize Cap as the more dangerous opponent, and vice-versa.  Cap and DS are brilliant at being able to immediately assess a situation and take the most tactically advantageous route. In addition, Beast and Cap have a long history as a team that DS and Bane lack. There are too many advantages for the Marvel team here. Beast's hf  is weak compared to Wolverine's, but more than enough to take blows from a much weaker (though superhuman level) opponent.  Cap was able to hurt Beast, pre hf while using his shield.  Doesn't apply to Bane at all.  Bane is a skilled fighter, but what he's best at, is prepping for a fight.  And even the times he stalemated Bats, he had painstakingly prepped and planned.  Here, prep, his greatest advantage, is taken away from him.  This is a no prep, impromptu meeting with a vastly physically superior opponent who has a weapon.  Bane goes down quickly..
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#3  Edited By bag_o_x_men
@nightwing91 said:
" @bag_o_x_men: They have no information, Deathstroke would go for who looks the most of a threat, and bane's skilled enough with his venom that the fight would last until deathstroke beats captain america. And he beat's bats one time because he did that, ever since then there fight's end in draws, and that's usually when he's not on venom. And the handbooks state him as 10 tons, and he's never lifted a helicoptor, I have never seen him do anything that's shown him being that strong.  And your also overestimating his healing factor, it's not like wolverine, he heals over the course of several hours, not several minutes, his healing factor is just about completly useless here, and like I've mentioned he's the weaklink because he's not a great fighter, not because of his stats but because his low skills.  And Bane on Venom, with his skill will allow him to hang with capm, or beast until deathstroke finishes  his opponet. "
I agree that Deathstoke would go after the greatest threat...Cap.  I won't argue Cap Deathstoke here, but Cap can certainly last with him.  And you apparently haven't read much with Beast, since in Astonishing he takes Wolverines claws without so much as blinking and walks away unhurt.  Since noone here has blades according to the op, Beast's hf should handle anything anyone does.  Bane isn't strong enough to hurt him, and DS could probably break some bones with a staff, his hf should handle it just fine. And while he may not be in Cap or Deathstroke's skill range, he is certainly in Bane's.  Bane cannot hang with either Cap or Beast.  This is really Slade vs Cap and Beast, and he might...might be able to take Cap.  Both of them together, no.
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#4  Edited By bag_o_x_men
@nightwing91: 
I agreed that DS would take Beast.  But there's no reason for him to fight DS.   Beast is superior to Bane, and as I said, is the logical match-up.  Bane's h2h isn't that impressive.  He beats Bats only after he's been weakened from something else, which is sad since he actually has superhuman physical stats.  Against Beast he is outmatched.  Beast's handbook entry is obviously wrong.  It lists him anywhere from 2-10 tons throughout his different mutations, yet he can lift helicopters, force blast doors, and lift transmuted solid gold trees.  But even if we lowball him, he outclasses Bane all around.  And Beast and Cap 2 on 1 against Deathstroke is too much.  Even if the match-ups go bad, and it ends up DS vs Beast, and Cap vs Bane, I think Beast with his speed, agility, and hf will be able to last long enough for Cap to finish Bane, and then we're back to a 2 on 1 and again, Slade goes down. Consequently, the weak link here, is Bane, and he costs team 2 the fight.
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#5  Edited By bag_o_x_men
@nightwing91: 
Really?  Beast is faster, more agile, significantly more intelligent, and exponentially stronger than anyone here, and he has a healing factor.  Sounds like a weak link to me.  I'll grant that Deathstroke would beat Beast, but Beast would slaughter Bane.  And since that's the logical match-up, and with Cap's tactical assessment of the situation that's the match-up most likely.  Cap and Deathstroke would fight for a while, in the meantime, Beast would beat Bane, then it's a 2 on 1 and Cap and Beast take DS down.  That's assuming Cap hasn't done it on his own already.
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#6  Edited By bag_o_x_men
@Sherlock: 
I'll grant you that everyone dodges bullets, but in different ways.  Batman anticipates the direction of fire and counts on his armor if he's wrong, Daredevil hears the mechanisms in the gun, Spidey has his spider-senses, and Mister X reads the nerve reaction and knows when the trigger will be pulled.  What these all have in common is that they rely on moving before the gun actually goes off.  Cap isn't limited in the same way.  He's just plain faster, which means that even when X anticipates a move and plans a counter, like he did in the scans where he stomps Wolverine, Steve is still fast enough to avoid the counter, where someone else may not be.  And to be fair, Wolverine was beaten badly in the first encounter with X when noone knew who he was or how he fought.  Everyone knows now, including Cap.  And remember they are not fighting hand to hand here. They have weapons.  That makes a difference.  I agree that h2h Cap loses, but with his shield I just don't see it.
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#7  Edited By bag_o_x_men
@TheFlash4740:@PirateKing69: 
Wolverine went berzerker rage on him.  X couldn't read him while he was feral. 
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#8  Edited By bag_o_x_men
@Sherlock: 
 You know his  telepathy isn't what you usually think of as in mind reading.  It's that he is able to read nerve impulses so he knows how the muscles will move.  That doesn't help with ricochets.  It also doesn't help with Cap being able to outlast him or overpower him either.  And no, Cap is nowhere near Hulk or Thor. He is superhuman, but barely. He broke Tony's armor with many repeated blows after Tony's suit was already power depleted so it had no extra shielding.  It's still impressive, because it's a alloy that is much harder and more resistant than steel, which, and correct me if I'm wrong, is all Mr X's swords are made of.  Same thing that truck was made of, that Cap's shield so easily sliced through.  And bullet dodging is relevant, because it means that Cap's reflexes and speed are more than enough to dodge X's attacks.  If necessary.  And again, he can do it until he wears X out, then finish him.
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#9  Edited By bag_o_x_men
@(((Prodigy))): 
I have those too. And I'd agree that Wolverine is at least physically equal to Cap and maybe superior. And I agree that X would slaughter Cap h2h. But the fact remains this isn't h2h.  Cap has his shield, and a dojo full of weapons and obstacles to work with. There should be dummies, heavy bags, mirrors... equipment everywhere. Cap is a master strategist, and will use the environment of the dojo to his advantage. Plus the op says there are weapons all over.  Not that either of them will use them for much other than distractions, since they are probably both more comfortable with their standard equipment. But Cap's ricochet skills alone should confuse or bypass X's powers.  And being able to use the shield for defense until he can come up with a strategy is also an advantage.  Add in X's overconfidence and I believe Cap takes this.  And if you want scans of Cap at superhuman levels, how are these? 




 
You'll note, he shatters armor that has withstood ridiculous things...Thor's hammer, Hulk punches, etc..., he takes out a truck's engine block by throwing his shield completely through the truck from the rear, and my personal favorite, he sees faster than bullets.  That means that unlike Batman, or even Mr X, he doesn't anticipate where the bullets will likely be and move before they're shot, he sees the gun fire, sees the  bullet leave the barrel, and then he moves out of the way.  That, mein freund is superhuman senses, reaction time, and speed.  And the other two scans show superhuman strength.
Unfortunately I don't have any showing superhuman stamina, which he has, but I read one where he ran all out for two days in Russia.  I don't remember what it was called, but if anyone has scans that would be great.  My point, is with stamina like that, he can easily just fight defensively untill Mister X tires and then finish him.  And he shouldn't have any trouble wearing X out when he's throwing truck destroying shield punches and dodging at bullet time.                   
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#10  Edited By bag_o_x_men
@(((Prodigy))): 
Nice scans, but Tasky isn't Cap. Just because he can mimic Cap's movements, doesn't mean he is the same.  He doesn't have superhuman strength, speed, or reaction time, all of which Cap has.  Cap can run 60 miles an hour, see and move faster than bullets, and throw his shield hard enough to peel through brick walls and armored military vehicles.  Mr X's appearance of superhuman speed is just that...appearance.  It's a simple application of his powers.  Still not enough to work against Cap except in pure h2h.  In this situation he goes down.