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Azura_Thena

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#1  Edited By Azura_Thena

@noj said:

No way Kraven would win against Batman. This whole series of articles is incredibly stupid and only serves to ignite flame wars between fans and piss everyone off.

I find these articles to be extremely well done exercises in logic. The only people I see getting angry are those that put their personal love of Batman above reason.

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@avilon said:

I liked your article and most of the logic behind it.I do have one problem though when you gave the gear advantage as a draw. Yes Kraven has the use of poisons which can be extremely debilitating if disabling if the victim were to be infected. But my problem is they have to be administered either through melee or ranged attacks all requiring to penitent batman's armor, lest of course he gets a face shot on batts. Could Kraven's physicals allow him to penetrate batman's armor effectively with poisons?

He should be able to get right through Batman's suit. Glass seemed to cut right through Batman's armor in his fight with Bane.

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#3  Edited By Azura_Thena

@bloxxeh said:

The thing about Batman is he will always find a way to beat his opponent. It may take a while, but he will.

The same thing can be said about nearly every hero.

@bogey said:

Kraven isn't that good to take out the Batman.

There is more to it than simply skill.

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I disagree with the outcome, but it was a very good article since a case could be made for either. However, I do think a mention should have been made of the fact that Batman has immunized himself to many poisons, and has proven ridiculously resistant to some in the past.

When did this happen? And were they doses prepared for specific encounters or somehow permanent immunizations?

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@end_boss said:

Yeah, I really don't think Kraven could take this one. No disrespect to the guy that took down Spider-Man, but I just don't see it happening.

Yeah, he's a great hunter, but so is Batman in his own way (world's greatest detective after all, and what is a detective if not a hunter?).

Yes, Kraven is a real tough guy, but so is Batman (peak physical conditioning, trained with the greatest martial artists in the world, only sentient being to ever dodge the Omega Beams).

Kraven may be able to take a punch from Spider-Man, but Bats has endured getting clocked by

Superman

on multiple occasions. Sure, Superman was usually holding back or was slightly de-powered, but he's still

Superman

. If your argument is that Spidey's super strength is anywhere near the ballpark of Kal-El's, well... I don't know what to tell you.

And as far as tech and gear go, Batman has Kraven hopelessly outclassed.

Hopelessly

.

Not sure how you arrived at the decision you did.

I get the impression that you didn't read the entire article...

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According to Spidey's clone, Wolverine's an "angry midget ninja."

What? Wolverine isn't a midget! I'm not sure what the official size definition is but Logan is very probably a foot above the limit. Besides, it's a dumb and demeaning word anyway and shouldn't be used.

A midget is a well proportioned, yet unusually small person. Wolverine fits this description. Wolverine does not fit the medical criteria for midget status (4'10'') but Kaine is not exactly a guy that thinks in medical terminology and certainly not in politically correct terms. It is not an inherently offensive word but some have turned it into one.

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#8  Edited By Azura_Thena

@muyjingo said:

@azura_thena said:

  • I gave exact documented events. You have yet to present data of equal quality. It is not arrogance, it is proper presentation of facts, completely open to peer review. Please, feel free to do so or do you intend to continue trying to reinforce your arguments with veiled attacks? Because believe it or not, that isn't better than factual data.
  • It is not an assumption because there is no other way that Superman's powers could have been neutralized with the presented data. I gave the data to support my assertion. It is available, with exact times for you to see for yourself. I already presented you with the facts that prove that Kryptonian air was not what removed his powers so the only conclusion that can be reached is that you have intentionally chosen to ignore the data because it doesn't make you feel good about yourself?
  • Now who is making unsupported claims about the movie? You are now making a claim of fact concerning Jor-El without a shred of evidence. Jor-El was not seen or heard from after his digital death. Everything else is an assumption.
  • Your option is not the more moral option. Senseless sacrifice is not moral high ground. The key word being... senseless.
  • I have presented many reasons. You simply refuse to accept them because you are being contrary just for the sake of it, or your ego cannot handle being wrong.
  • I don't see how your opinion on my methods of research is relevant other than to spotlight your personal feelings towards me, which proves my above claim. I was of the mind that good research took precedent and as it happens, I went to a matinee showing. I was the one of three people in my particular showing and I had permission from them anyway for the purpose of research.
  • Let me be clear. When you assert your assumption however plausible it may be as a fact, without supporting evidence, that is arrogant. You have not given any evidence to support your assumption, just an interpretation of what we all saw on screen, no more valid than anyone elses is.
  • Your peers have disagreed with you, and yet you seem to insist you are right. Generally, in the academic community your paper wouldn't be published and you would be considered a kook.
  • Again, you didn't give data. You gave timecodes within the movie. I rewatched the areas of the movie yourefer to as I wrote this, and saw no data to support your assumption, only interpretation.
  • The movie only talks about changes in atmosphere. When earth Atmosphere is restored, Superman regains his power. Nothing else is shown or stated relating to that, implying the change in atmosphere is responsible for him regaining his powers.
  • It is not an assumption that a copy of Jor-El was uploaded. He even states that he is a copy that was uploaded into Zod's ship. The original copy of the program existed in the command key. I don't know if that still existed or if maybe a copy was left in Clark's ship or the ship in Canada. I'm not asserting there was, but it would be plausible if the movie introduced that.
  • Yes, it is the more moral option. Self-sacrifice to avoid taking a life is certainly more moral. You can argue that it is senseless, but then a lot of morality is.
  • I assure you, I can admit when I'm wrong. You simply haven't given any evidence, only assumptions.
  • My stating I would have been annoyed by someone in a movie theater with a stopwatch (presumably taking notes) and complained wasn't directed to you personally. It was a general reaction to the statement. I would have said the same thing regardless of who made it. I didn't mean for you to have to defend yourself...if you're that dedicated to get permission to use a stopwatch in a cinema and do so, then kudos to you.
  • I suppose it is a good thing I never did that then. But it is funny that you are trying to be the pot calling the kettle black.
  • My peers refuse to even attempt to verify their own claims, much less mine, thus their views are invalid based on shoddy research. Generally, when people refuse documented facts out of hand and label someone as a 'kook', they are eventually proven wrong and have no small amount of egg on their face. I can provide numerous examples if necessary.
  • I did give data. I documented exact times for my claims. You refuse to acknowledge it. I believe you are not being truthful about your multiple viewings. Certainly about the ones where you claim to try verify my claims because if you had, you would not be here saying that I am wrong. Unless... it is more of the same; your ego just cannot handle being wrong so you deny the facts just to 'win' the argument. I believe I have proven my case, so while I fully expect you to respond with some haughty, self-absorbed post about how I am wrong and you are right, I will not be continuing the discussion. So if you are a last-word-freak, you will end up 'winning' the argument that way.
  • Yet... Superman retained his powers within Kryptonian atmosphere for a significant portion of time against the World Engine. Implied? Now who is making assumptions? Your hypocrisy is astounding.
  • It is an assumption because you have no facts to support your theory. Hilariously, you inaccurately accuse me of the same action.
  • Needless self-sacrifice is not the moral high ground. I don't know how to state that in a more simplified way. Sacrificing yourself when there are better alternatives just makes the sacrifice a wasted action. Jumping in front of a truck to stop it from flattening a child is not the noble action if you have the time and the means to just pull the child out of danger. Your option was not avoiding killing Zod. Flying to an unknown planet with unknown potential dangers under a star that would strip them both of their powers is most certainly a death sentence... assuming they could even make planet fall before the star depowered them in the vacuum of space. Your option would most certainly have resulted in both their deaths by Superman's hands. It was a stupid option lacking any kind of superior morality because Superman still ends up killing Zod, just by different, much more graphic means as slowly losing your powers in vacuum would most certainly be a painful, gruesome experience.
  • You have been proven wrong several times in my short time being here and in none of those situations did you admit your failings. So while I am willing to admit that you THINK you are capable of admitting when you are wrong, you have not shown to be capable when the situation called for it.
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Azura_Thena

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#10  Edited By Azura_Thena

@muyjingo said:
@azura_thena said:
  • Facts were checked. I remain correct.
  • Yes, this is true but no elaboration was given as to how Superman's powers were neutralized. I gave very specific reasons as to how Earth air is not the source of Superman's powers. Please address those facts before trying to reassert your claim.
  • Jor-El was seen after his digital death? Where was this?
  • I don't think senseless self-sacrifice is ever heroic when there are more intelligent options.
  • There might be better options but you haven't presented any of workable quality.

You seem to be arrogant, but you certainly are not correct. Although now that you have admitted your assertion that a kryptonian device was used was only an assumption, you're getting closer.

I'm not making a claim. I simply pointed out that your assertion that a kryptonian device is used to neutralize Clark's powers is only an assumption. There is little to support your assertion in the movie, and indeed it strongly implies the change in atmosphere is the cause of him losing his powers.

I never claimed Jor-El was seen after his digital death. If you go back and read my post, you will see I stated correctly that Zod destroyed a copy of Jor-El that was uploaded into the ship. Not the only extant copy of Jor-El.

Senseless self sacrifice isn't as much about intelligent options as it is about morality. Superman would generally prefer to save as many people as possible, willing to risk his life doing so.

You may not like the alternative option I've presented, but you haven't given any reason why it isn't plausible.

@azura_thena said:

  • Funny you should say that because being in the theater with a stopwatch was exactly what I did. ;)

Huh. I would have complained and had you kicked out if you were sitting next to me. That's pretty distracting if you're trying to watch a movie.

  • I gave exact documented events. You have yet to present data of equal quality. It is not arrogance, it is proper presentation of facts, completely open to peer review. Please, feel free to do so or do you intend to continue trying to reinforce your arguments with veiled attacks? Because believe it or not, that isn't better than factual data.
  • It is not an assumption because there is no other way that Superman's powers could have been neutralized with the presented data. I gave the data to support my assertion. It is available, with exact times for you to see for yourself. I already presented you with the facts that prove that Kryptonian air was not what removed his powers so the only conclusion that can be reached is that you have intentionally chosen to ignore the data because it doesn't make you feel good about yourself?
  • Now who is making unsupported claims about the movie? You are now making a claim of fact concerning Jor-El without a shred of evidence. Jor-El was not seen or heard from after his digital death. Everything else is an assumption.
  • Your option is not the more moral option. Senseless sacrifice is not moral high ground. The key word being... senseless.
  • I have presented many reasons. You simply refuse to accept them because you are being contrary just for the sake of it, or your ego cannot handle being wrong.
  • I don't see how your opinion on my methods of research is relevant other than to spotlight your personal feelings towards me, which proves my above claim. I was of the mind that good research took precedent and as it happens, I went to a matinee showing. I was the one of three people in my particular showing and I had permission from them anyway for the purpose of research.