Discussion about Immortal Hulk 36

Well sorry for the delay, i sinceraly wished i could have done it earlier but here it is:

The discussion began in the hulk forum´s, more specifically in the immortal Hulk disscussion where i argued that there where external circunstances that explain why Savage Hulk was able to rip Absorving man´s arm, which were currently at the Hulk level pre rage amp but @underfire47: disagreed so we´re going to discuss this topic

also we may also debate if i am a "true" Hulk fan or not if he wants too but idk.

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random tought

everyday i wait for when Thor is going to be realeased by that moons and everyday i´m disapointed

well..maybe next mounth as he appeared in the cover lol (not holdingg my breath tho)

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Respect the ten realms: Jotunheim

Jutunheim

Intro

The second best here in terms of quantity of feats let´s see about their quality

average height of Frost giant 62 ft and Ice giant 130 ft

Tipes of giants

  • Storm giants
  • Mountain giants
  • Frost giants
  • ice giants

Ymir

The oldest giant and possible in existence to the nords myths, Ymir is a threat to Odin and father to all giants.

During war of realms the giants somehow imrpsioned Ymir (don´t ask me how) and were using him as a way to mass produce giants

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Midgarth serpent

Loki´s child and one of Thor greatest (ha) rival, the serpent is a being of impressive power and might. He (?) is to be so big that can circle earth itself

coming soon

Can withstand many planet shaking blows

whistand a blow that makes ygdrasil "totters"

suposed to "eat the world"

blades of asgard shatter in the midgard serpent skin and it´s own roar shakes asgard

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Laufey

His shockwave against Odin makes jutunheim tremble

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Defeats the avengers easily. Note that the blow doesn´t even conect(war of the realms #1)

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Slaps away the avengers

fights the fantastic four .Should be taken into account that:

  1. Fantastic four is attacking all together. Sue is trying to choke him
  2. Laufey fought other heros before (a whole Avengers team)
  3. Sue is trying to choke him and Jhonny is literaly his Kryptonite
  4. presumably wins/ they can´t put him down as later only the Thing is seeing standing

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Hurts Odin (weakned ) pretty bad (war of the realms #1)

(Amped) Swallowing the casket of ancient winters is able to froze the thing and others

(amped) he would freeze "the entire realm"

Storm giants

One random storm giant throws an enchanted rock with the weight of the Earth

he later fights Thor equally

he was getting amped by being in contat with earth

the first Storm giants could defeat most of asgard and in a clash with Odinforce Thor could destroy asgard, the city

Storm giant has a "ten ton mountain spliting club"

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Frost and ice giants

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Stats

Malekith says Frost giants are famous for freezing stars (maybe a shared feat)

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Just by walking they produce seismic activity and are comparable to a mountain range. They then kill some sharks that could easily deal with atleanteas

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One of frost giant barely dents a wall with adamantium and vibranium

Random giant hurt venon amped 1000x pretty bad

Hoarfen kills professor hulk with one bit

tanks many hits

(limit) has his jaw broken by Hulk

Splash venon

Random soldier felt cap marvel energy as "poking"

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Fight against mind control (War of the Realms: Uncanny X-Men)

Survive an rpg to the face (War of the Realms: Uncanny X-Men)

No sell Havoc best shot (War of the Realms: Uncanny X-Men)

unhurt/not much hurt by squirrel girl and ratatosk

Hits Squirrel girl and ratatosk so hard it throws them to what would be days of walking while not trying to hurt them too much (but it did hurt them)

Pentigaar survives reentry

A giantess freezes midgarth and Asgard for 40 days/nights

lifts a building with ease and whitstand been hurt by them (squirrel girl 46)

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Frost giants amped by the casket slap around Thor and were about to freeze the whole world

squirrel girl with her gag abilitie to defeat enemies stronger than her can´t defeat them so convinces them to leave (yes this book treated them with more rerspect them most others in the event...)

Two giants hold up Thor

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ice giants are suposed to be significantly stronger than frost giants

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Freezing power

Regular Jotun freezes Juggernaut and Cain can´t break free

Can regen by spiting

A bunch of them (not more than 15 i think) froze the pacific ocean, the largest on earth. (Thor 2014 2)

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and a bunch of great warriors from Asgard and earth. They spent issues like that.

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Froze Thor and jane Thor (Thor 2014 issue 3)

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Mountain giants

Arrows with the force of bombs

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Skadi a friendly giant shakes a mountain by walking

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Giant says he has effortless destroyed mountains (Thor 450)

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All giants

all giants

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What if Thor (2018)

Yeah yeah i know just for the sake of completness, it´s not battle aplicable bla bla bla

battle of asgardians and frost giants shook the mountains of every realm

laufey fought so hard that they couldn´t say if it went for "days, months centuries"

Laufey with his weapons deals a killing blow to Odin with one shot

The weapon channels the souls of the ancestors and even Thor finds it heavy

one energy blasts freeze Frigga to dust

jotunheim beast kill 3 giants with one hit (but is killed with no much more than one lighting of this universe Thor)

Magic items

(Belt of invulnerability) the Brood that has it no sells hits from Mjolnir and Hulk

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(Axe) similar power to Mjolnir

can freeze even fire giants (marvel adventures issue 11)

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Weakness

in recent years they have become MASSIVELY weak to fire or heat

Even the heat of the Saara can make a frost giant melt.

Are defeated by Asgardian Weapons-wielding street level avengers and even a normal guy

have the same weakspots than normal humans

Conclusion

So, i have read all of the giant's apparences in the main titles and a bit more i feel confident in writing this.

The giants are the top guns of the evils army. Basing myself solely in the strength of their armies they are contenders for the first place tied with Asgard. They have mountain level feats by walking, blowing wind and other super casual things which wen taking into consideration that nidavelir mountains are moon sized can be even more impressive (only wank/speculation). I got the impression while reading that they are easily able to defeat most asgardians when in H2H combat casualy and they are tied because of Asgard impressive weapons a weak and small giant was able to contend with Balder a very strong asgardian.

Counting individuals however they could easily drop to third. Not all giants are created equally but there is a pattern. Thor has consistent feats suggesting 10x times the strength of a normal giant easily or defeating entire armies of them. They would not last against a reality warper for example

There are some giants that can match him and we have seen three (Laufey, world serpent and random storm giant,not counting Loki) having planetary level (Ymir should be able too )feats but most of them are nowhere close this level. It should be noted that Loki made a group of the best giants kill themselves/each other by talking before the war perhaps explaining their lackluster showing on the war of realms.

They do have some interesting feats one could make a door of adamantium and vibranium dent a little (mighty Thor#3). Hoarfen, an son of fenris and a frost giant, was capable of killing professor Hulk (incredible Hulk 422) by eating him and sending him to Hel. When the latter returned, he broke his jaw and the wolf run away.

The problem is that they have too much weakness. They are, sometimes to ridiculous extent, weak to heat (which explains why some weapons could hurt them) as one began melting at the Saara(should be noted that there is varying degrees of this as some fought human tourch) and a mortal wielding asgardian weapons could kill them with a lucky hit. They are not particularly skilled with only two named exceptions or smart.

They also as a race has being show to not know about magic to the point that is a racial trait. The few giants actually do know can do stuff like imprisoning Juggernaut, turning an entire city into stone and disguising the world serpent as a cat or well fighting Thor.

Despite Jotunheim been almost always showed in perpetual winter in recent days there is a varied group of of giant. There are frost giants, ice giants, storm giants mountain giants and etc. Statements about which is stronger vary, with frosts being said to be stronger and Ice giants being stronger and taller than them however Storm giants seem to have the better feats

There seem to be a quite large group of giants that, like Loki, didn´t grew to giant size. They are treated as weaker and Loki is sometimes said to be weaker and sometimes show to be stronger than the average frost giant especially by scaling from Thor.

Other than that also were not well explored thru the ages, which is a shame as there seems to be a no end of ways to make them interesting. There is barely if any well developed character unless you count this character of doubting canonicity, although strange academy may change that. They also are almost always portrayed as evil or in the wrong side of things.

tl dr:

Very strong physically, but with weak magic and almost no items. Seemed to be consistently with mountain shaking/level feats which are almost always done super casually and could mean a lot seeing as there is at least one realm that has moon sized mountains. A few of them can match the top tiers like Thor, Hulk and etc

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Respect the ten realms: Niffelheim and Hel

Niffenhelm

Hela

Under her realm she can mantain the destroyer imprisioned for a very long time (years in rl)

Dragons

Able to rip the celestials armor


(context) the amor was without it´s shields

A sword that is able to cut thru dragon hide easily impresses Singurd

a baby dragon can hurt Iron man

the dragon fafnir is particurlarly powerful, can take hits from Mjolnir

A dragon can "burn like the sun"

A dragon was a powerful magic user who trained under dormanu himself

this dragon can manipulate reality

overpowers Iron man esily

said that he would destroy the world and Tony believed him

he however thought it was impressive that Tony defeated Fing fang foom

One of them, is able to fight Odin, Thor, Vidar, Hermond at te same time

(limit) They ALSO seem weaker to iron which could explain some low showings

Dragon blood

Able to amp people from normal human to able to shake the whole world

In a very similar way to the Hulk family, it make Singurd "more immortal" and "twice as powerful" even tho he was already legendary in Asgard

Can hurt Immortal Hulk

Hela´s forces

Well for starters Hel is the biggest realm and it is also implied to be the most populated too. They fear Hel turning on them because they think that if it enters the war sgard and etc would have no chance

For many years the fight of Skurge was a headscratcher for many people: how could he be challenged with beings that can e defeated with normal guns? Well Loki confirms they were Magic

One of Hels chieftans, has the power of a mountain

Angerboda a giantess is almost as strong as Thor

Hel has many guardians, garm is one of them

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respect the ten realms Muspenhell

Muspenhell

Most notable habitant: Surtur whom is suposed to be the one wo will destroy the universe althogh he never does it

Surtur

The powers of surtur that was in the newest daughter of Odin and Freya, were enough to power Heaven and probably was what was powering the angels planet sized prision

Sindr

Sindr said that she "boiled oceans and (somehow) burned stars. Arguably she did it while inside her realm, where she is stronger but maybe she just did it too

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Sindr hurt Brawn (a weaker Cho Hulk), maybe two shot him?) (War Of The Realms: New Agents Of Atlas)

Sindr was about to burn the whole world

Fought Sun wukong and swordmaster

Aparently can generate 445 000 Hercs (?)

Warrior´s might

Their "explosives" are comparable to nidavelir mountain(s). The fire is said to be hotter than the sun

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Nidavelir mountains are as big as moons. (Vollstagg survived the fire by being full of goblin blood)

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eventualy overwhelm Cho (War Of The Realms: New Agents Of Atlas)

Fire hurt Cho hulk

React and burn bullets in the air

Hurt the a robot mimicking the goddess pele

Punisher sword, that could decap Jotuns, melts/breaks upon contat

(limit) Decap by the Ebony blade

Take punches from Io

io can affect brawncho hulk

we are told that the nidavelir mountains (who are moon size) are burning

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respect the ten realms Muspenhell

Muspenhell

Most notable habitant: Surtur whom is suposed to be the one wo will destroy the universe althogh he never does it

Surtur

The powers of surtur that was in the newest daughter of Odin and Freya, were enough to power Heaven and probably was what was powering the angels planet sized prision

Sindr

Sindr said that she "boiled oceans and (somehow) burned stars. Arguably she did it while inside her realm, where she is stronger but maybe she just did it too

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Sindr hurt Brawn (a weaker Cho Hulk), maybe two shot him?) (War Of The Realms: New Agents Of Atlas)

Sindr was about to burn the whole world

Fought Sun wukong and swordmaster

Aparently can generate 445 000 Hercs (?)

Warrior´s might

Their "explosives" are comparable to nidavelir mountain(s). The fire is said to be hotter than the sun

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Nidavelir mountains are as big as moons. (Vollstagg survived the fire by being full of goblin blood)

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eventualy overwhelm Cho (War Of The Realms: New Agents Of Atlas)

Fire hurt Cho hulk

React and burn bullets in the air

Hurt the a robot mimicking the goddess pele

Punisher sword, that could decap Jotuns, melts/breaks upon contat

(limit) Decap by the Ebony blade

Take punches from Io

io can affect brawncho hulk

we are told that the nidavelir mountains (who are moon size) are burning

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respect the ten realms: Heaven

Heaven

The legendary tenth realm

Energy source

first they used the Odinforce thru all of Angela´s life

then they used a shard of Surtur essence

Ships

Word killers

observation: The queen of the angels think angela is more effective than her 4-5 world killers to defeat Thor

Prision

The size of a planet

has at least one black hole inside

The walls can move and the prision can be in fire

Regular soldiers/Armies might

Their queen hurt spiderman with this:

Kill dark elves

Bullrushed Kurse

their leader can hurt Angela

Their weapons can destroy Thor´s metal arm

can hurt Thor Throgg

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Respect the ten realms: Nidavelir, home of the dwarves

Nidavelir

The makers of Mjolnir and other fabled weapons

Dwarfs

etri is suposed to be a four out of seven in strength

lift a cauldron of molten uru

several of them restrain a golem that could absorb Iron man

The making of Mjolnir

The stories of Mjolnir origins have always been impressive,sometimes Odin grow they to be bigger then a star and etc. However the newer recounting have made it even more impressive

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dwarves (we don´t know how many) hook a star and dragged it. They used until it died

And this leaves more weight to the argument that each realm is a universe (albeit maybe a pocket one)

Trolls

I dind´t know where to put them...so i put them here

Are said to be varie from class 25 to 95 of strength

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A troll hits she Hulk pretty hard

although many trolls were defeated without a problem when trolls did hit them they defeated adam and gamora very easily. Drax and Maxam however were defeated by gas. ulik wasn´t among the fighters

Uruc

Don´t expect much more about them, however

conclusion

dwarves are in a surprising lack of physical feats. One punched Tony stark in his unprotected face without making much demange (although he might been holding back as to preserve his deniability) and was very hurt from one punch with the armor and in a fight against the new mutants without dany they were stated to be weaker but would overwhelm them with numbers (albeit should been said that sunspot was significantly stronger) .

Their physical feats that they do have are unquantifiable and difficult to eyeball (3 of them lifting an gigantic cauldron of molten uru) have ludicrous context (all dwarvenkind joining to pull a star, prob with some magic/ stuff) or are veeery hard to determine how strong would be to do this/if this is a strength feat at all (holding an golem that was specially made to absorb stark with the armor and was one shoted by it or a dwarf saying after hitting the weapon once with his hammer that it is unbreakable)

However what they lack in (at least overt) physicality they compensate in engenuity. I'm honestly surprised that i haven't seen until now a evil genius dwarf. They have made a ship that can fit in a pocket, Odin´s spear, Thor´s weapon, Hela´s blade ( that was said that in time could cleave the ygdrasil, when Hela put magic in it shook asgard), a horn that could summon and control dead gods from other cycles, Nebula´s weapon (planet cleaver), Thor´s black uru arm and much more and a bunch of dwarves made weapons that empowered the heroes of earth to the point of defeating the worthy in a short amount of time, they apparently also have a quantum forge, whatever that means.

They also seem to impress even genius of earth like Stark , who said that he mostly sat in the back while the dwarves made all the work. One dwarf even teached stephen strange how to enchant and showed him a whole new path to magic.Strange was even able to ambiguously save the earth from a missile fired by an alien civilization with one of his new weapons. Other, supplied Ares with his weapons as Hefestus wouldn´t. They also seem to be able to do powerful explosions but we need more showings to see how strong they are.

The most famous one is Etri, the one that made Thor's weapon, however there seems to be some of them that can make even better (?) stuff. It seems however that although this isn't as emphasized Surtur and the trolls can somewhat come close to their stuff with Surtur making a replica of Mjolnir and the twilight blade supposedly being the best weapon in the nine realms and troll´s were sometimes credited with creating mjolnir and always making replicas of it.

With all this free time in a forge and how they are flanderized to be an entire race of weapom makers it's mind boggling/ fridge logic how there isn't at least more world destroying weapons lying around. It's honestly a shame that there isn't even one dwarf that went crazy and made a power armor.

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Respect the ten realms: Alfheim/ Svartenheim

Alfheim and Svartalfheim

yeah i´m mixing this together (i will edit this soon)

dark elves are suposed to be class 10 with malekith amping up to class 90 with magic

Malekith

His spears "hurts like a thousand spikes" whateve that means

Can somewhat fight Thor

Survives being hit with a spears that make him feel all the pain that he did

Fights iron man altough iron is his weakness (iron man ???)

Can turn organs into otherstuff

turns people blood into fire

Turn valkyries into bones

When his bog tiger and dogs ate him they died because of his dark magic inside him

Him and Aegger defeat an army of light elves

Amped Malkith

Malekith in the end of the war of the realms used Venom to amp himself to new levels of power, being said to be very similar to Gorr´s Necroblade

Could fight four Thors. Young Thor says they should have brought more Thor´s

Defeated old Thor with the odinforce

tanked a swing from jarnbjorn from Avengers Thor with the destroyer arm

Throwed Thor in the ground with the same magic that he used against the valkyries

bog tiger

eats malekith

in this totally reliable gag from unbeatable squirrel girl 43 gag it is said tony would take 493 years to made a suit strong enough to defeat Maleketh tiger-like mount

grendel

suposedly 100 class

Kurse

more than 3 times stronger than Thor

stomps bill

knocked out but alive from an artefact , at least, as strong as the casket of ancient winters

Flame

Wild hunt

Their numbers seem almost limitless

army

Overwhelm Cull who is above Thor (should make myself clear that this is a hilarious outlier and they are not even close to half of that in consistently)

demange the destroyer

hurt odin

defeated the valkyries. (Malekith was prob the mvp)

magic

dreamstone Create a magic symbiont that is 1000x stronger than venon

Amped Wilson Fisk to be able to trade blows with Heimdevil

Apparently create a potion that induces mind control on the victim

Have powerful sedative

conclusion

They are the polar opposite of the giants. While the giants have almost none magic ability and much physical power i was hard pressed to find instances of elves (both) doing any sort of impressive physical feat. I'm not finished and gonna revise later, but i don't expect this to change all that much

They have a magic spell that can contain weapon H for some minutes (does he has rage amp?) and the magic that was containing Juggernaut does seem an awful lot to this but it is pure speculation. They have also sedatives, poisons and a food that makes people mind crontoled. It seems their strength lies not in direct combat but in debuffing the enemy to then defeat him.

Interestingly they also seem to have proficiency in empowering magic :As they could make Wilson Fisk into someone in heimdall´s level and could obliterate parts of giants and also empower Ed Brock to have an symbiont 1000x stronger than venon whithout with a wish cristal

Some elfs are however physically impressive for no special reason. Grendel is supposed to be somewhat able to fight thor (even tho Thor was weakened by Hela´s curse) as was Kurse before further amps, Malekith using magic to make himself stronger.

And for now i only found one light elf that did anything kind of impressive. The light elf/ demon hybrid managed to plight and destroy many asgardian towns before Thor and later Harrokin defeated him

Their weakness to iron is so great that they are weaker just by going near it and of course are utterly defeated by Iron Man.Their magic could affect an already damaged by one of Mandarin's rings armor but when fighting with a new one were overcome

They could be great, however as its stands now, if they aren´t a named character they are very easy fodder

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Respect the ten realms: Vanaheim

Vanenheim

Queen Frigga

Takes hits of the destroyer

Hit by amped She-Hulk, Ghost rider and blade as a test and got up

Has magic that shows fears

Incinerates the world serpent

Regular soldiers

Create a magic water shield

do some magic

defeated the Roxxon army which could kill dragons

(context) the squadron supreme says Roxxon is only a bit easier to fight then the badoom

(limit) had to retreat because of Roxxon bombardment and b.e.r.s.e.r.k.e.r.s soldiers of Hulk level strength

later they fought them again

Everything burns

Conclusion

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