ASGARDIANBRONY

"Each man must face his own Ragnarok! And in his soul, each man doth know if he will be found -- wanting!"

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HOBO ODIN: What it could mean for Ragnarok

Hello fellow Thor fans and viners! I have just thought of a new and interesting theory that if true would be absolutely epic! Here are a few links to my previous theories regarding the soul stone/odinforce I have posted on other sites:

Now then, knowing the above what could the new images of hobo Odin mean? let us delve into this subject.

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the above image is how odin has been portrayed so far in the MCU, as a wise and powerful king of the asgardians, but now photos have leaked that show odin as a begger living in the gutter.

how did this happen? well the popular theory as of right now is that Loki stole the odinforce and made Odin mortal, however I think there is far different explanation... I believe Odin gave up the Odinforce to loki. *GASP* I know what your probably thinking, "why would odin do that? why would he give the trickster god the kingship?" Well let me explain. This is something Odin has been planning forever and it has everything to do with ragnarok.

THE ODINFORCE/SOUL STONE

First let me explain what the OF is (my theory). The soul stone/odinforce is the life force of all asgard, it is the orange power they wield throughout all the films and it is what gives the Asgardians their longevity (5,000 yrs or more), godlike physicals and mystic powers. Evidence that the soul stone is the odinforce has been seen throughout the thor films including:

  • the orange colour of asgards energy
  • Odin's soul based abilities (mjolnir's soul reading, sensing the souls of frost giants, changing thor and loki's natural forms)
  • heimdall seeing souls.
  • the destroyer being powered by wielders soul.

more evidence and such is in the links I posted above. So the soul stone is the life force of Asgard and it is wielded by Odin but how does it connect to ragnarok? well it is common knowledge odin has always worried about the coming of ragnarok, so it is very likely he would make some plans to avoid it... thus we have LOKI!

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Loki is the bastard son of frost giants who odin slaughtered, why would odin adopt him? in the comics this is explained with odin trying to appease the spirit of bor (which is actually loki) but how does the MCU make sense of the adoption? Its very simple, Odin adopted loki because he was the perfect failsafe for ragnarok. Loki is not asgardian and thus he cannot inherit the Odinforce, he would need to have it gifted to him or take it by force. this means that if Odin were to give him the odinforce, and loki were to die the OF would go right back to odin. are you getting the plan yet?

ODIN'S PLAN

lets go through odin's plan step by step.

Step 1: adopt a child not born of asgard.

The child would not be connected to the life force of asgard/soul stone so if it died while possessing the OF then the OF would leave him and return to its rightful owner.

Step 2: when ragnarok comes around give the OF to the adopted person.

the new owner of the OF (loki) will take up the person of Odin and rule in secrecy.

Step 3: get turned into a mortal.

have loki turn you mortal, thus you will live on earth and be immune to the effects of ragnarok.

Step 4. Asgard as prophesied gets destroyed in ragnarok and everyone dies.

asgard gets destroyed by surtur, everybody dies... except you.

Step 5: Regain the odinforce

since the loki is dead the OF will go to its rightful owner, the hobo god Odin!

Step 6: fix everything

with the OF back you can resurrect everybody.

Its all a big plan to cheat fate! Whats really cool about this theory is that Odin actually tried something just like it in the comics prior to Seth's attack on asgard.

please share your thoughts :D

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FINAL CRISIS: Mandrakk, thought robot, the overvoid and the monitors debunked

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I just read final crisis yesterday at the library and it was epic! It was a great story, actually it was more a jumble of stories mixed together into one epic tale. The art was stellar, the writing was great, everything about it was awesome. I see why people love final crisis so much, however after reading it for myself in full it became apparent to me that much misinformation is being spread concerning the nature of the monitors and their power levels, as well as the power levels of cosmic armour superman and mandrakk. Now then let us discover the truth of the final crisis.

THE OVERVOID

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here is the overvoid, the embodiment of the page. many people now believe this is the supreme being in DC (I used to think so as well) however this is very wrong. The overvoid is NOT omniscient and did not create the multiverse. As you can see in the scan it was shocked at the appearance of the multiverse and could not fully comprehend or understand its existence which is why it spawned lesser monitors to research it. The overvoid is not the supreme being in DC, that title still belongs to the presence. The overvoid is simply the canvas upon which the presence created creation just like the paper is but the canvas upon which the writer writes. The overvoid I would agree is second to the presence in DC's hierarchy, but it is definitely not first.

CONCLUSION: The overvoid is second in DC to the presence and is not omniscient.

THE MONITORS AND THE MONITOR REALM

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Mandrakk and the monitors were epic in final crisis, a very unique and awesome spin on gods, however they are not the overpowered fiction transcending beings people try to make them out to be. Lets take a look at the reasons people think these beings are so powerful, and debunk them :D

SIZE, SCALE AND PLACEMENT: "The monitors and there realm are larger than the multiverse therefore they are multiversal. they also exist outside the multiverse so they must be above and beyond it in power, able to transcend fiction blah blah blah. "

This is one of the reasons people think the monitors are multiversal, however this is complete boulderdash. let us compare the monitor realm to new genesis.

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Behold the orrery of worlds. the 52 universes of the DC multiverse (it was very clear final crisis only dealt with 52 universes, not infinite). The monitors, well, monitor these universes and as you can see they hold them in a big case. You would think they are multiversal wouldn't you? But wait!

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New genesis, the 4th world, home to the new gods, a higher reality existing outside the mortal multiverse. In new genesis all universes exist as little bubbles, the gods of new genesis and apocalypse including Darkseid tower over universes. Interesting to note is the fact the monitors only monitored 52 universes while new genesis has ALL universes in it meaning it is so large it actually contains the full infinite multiverse. So are Darkseid and other new gods multiversal or even universal? no, it is well known on comicvine Darkseid is nowhere near universal, in fact he isn't even the top dog on the skyfather tier as most agree he is equal or inferior to thanos. Not only does the 4th world exist outside of the multiverse and is far larger, so do all the divine pantheons and mystic realms in DC including Olympus, Asgard, Hell ect.

CONCLUSION: Size, scale and existing outside the multiverse mean nothing in determining power. The monitor realm and the monitors in size and placement are no different than the other pantheons of DC.

MONITOR PHYSIOLOGY: "The monitors are beings of pure thought without any physical matter to reality warp andmandrakk is the most powerful monitor and he is pure thought and would solo 99% of fiction blah blah blah."

The monitors are NOT beings of pure thought. Let us look at the evidence.

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The monitors are referred to as science gods several times and indeed use tech of many kinds that run on multiversal energy called bleed. these machines are not made of thought, they are metal and were being destroyed just fine by superman and a bunch of other heroes.

The monitors also need to feed on life force whether from the multiversal energy of the bleed or actual blood itself! Zillo valla, a mid level monitor and the one who recruited supermen showed that she needed to replenish herself with blood and even went so far as to feed on the blood of overman (a Nazi version of supes).

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Rox ogama absorbed the power of dax novu into himself and became mandrakk... then he got easily killed by heat vision and a GL construct. would a being of absolute pure thought get killed by a stake and get burnt by heat vision? I think not. However the monitors may have been beings of thought at one point; when reading final crisis it was made abundantly clear that contact with the "germ worlds" had changed the monitors and brought "beginnings and endings" to their realm (take that people who think they are beyond time itself) and at the end of final crisis it is shown that all the monitors except Nix Uotan go back to the overvoid, assimilating back to the mind that spawned them:

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so at one time the monitors MAY have been beings of pure thought, however they most definitely aren't any more.

CONCLUSION: The monitors including mandrakk are physical/partly physical beings who rely on technology and need to replenish themselves on multiversal bleed energy or blood.

MANDRAKK AND THOUGHT ROBOTS POWER LEVEL?

After reading through this and seeing that most of what is being spread around about the characters from final crisis is false you are probably wondering how powerful they actually are. Well let us look at the one actual feat that can be used to answer this question.

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other than this one scan we have no real way to judge how powerful these beings are since dimensionality, size and location mean nothing (though the fanboys will say otherwise). In this scan we have to statements:

"the blood of 52 universes."

"the heat of ten billion suns!"

Now I believe that statements are totally valid when discussing beings of immense power as usually there fights are just energy blasts and punches but they are clearly far more powerful. One of these statements sounds like a legit feat, the other sounds like hyperbole or a question.

THE BLOOD OF 52 UNIVERSES

this, to me. seems like an obvious case of either hyperbole or simply a question to superman. mandrakk is seemingly asking supes if he can feel and sense the bleed.

THE HEAT OF TEN BILLION SUNS

this is the feat. it is quantifiable and therefore believable, like odin saying he is busting galaxies, or the molecule man saying his blast could destroy billions of dimensions. This is the best feat we have and thus it scales to cosmic armour superman. Now that we have figured out with what to judge we can safely say that mandrakk and TR are.... skyfather level!

I can sense the fanboys anger but its true, by feats mandrakk is only skyfather level. Let us compare him to Darkseid.

REALM

Monitor realm: exists outside the multiverse, contains 52 entire universes inside of it, is a physical realm of divine science.

4TH WORLD: Exists outside the multiverse, contains the entire multiverse inside of it, it is a physical realm of divine science

SIZE AND PHYSIOLOGY

MANDRAKK: towers over universes and is a higher dimensional being who shrinks down to fit in universes and is a physical being

DARKSEID: Towers over universes and is a higher dimensional being who shrinks down to fit in universes and is a physical being

FEATS

MANDRAKK: Hit thought robot with the heat of ten billion suns (galaxy busting).

DARKSEID: Has hurt the specter, has hurt the anti-monitor (an actual multiversal being and not the same as these monitors).

Darkseid and mandrakk are even in basically every way!

FINAL SUMMARY

by using logic, not fanboyism and made up fantasies it is plain to see a few things.

  • the overmonitor is second to the presence.
  • the monitors are a race of gods just like the Olympians, 4th worlders and asgardians, the monitors were simply created by the overvoid instead of the source.
  • The monitors are physical beings with limits.
  • Mandrakk is skyfather level and the same goes for thought robot.

I hope you enjoyed my blog. please leave your thoughts and questions :D

40 Comments

Comicvine fictional universe AKA CVFU: my character, the god of miracles, Sabaoth

me, @mbcb2001 and 20 others are creating a huge RP universe for everyone to be a part of! Our big sign up thread will be ready soon but until then behold my character and his mythos. :D

EMPYREAN (the well of miracles, the sea of eternal life)

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In a universe afar off, in the time before time the gods eternal lived in harmony. Ever basking in the blissful light of Origen there was not but peace and plenty. Lord Sabaoth ruled justly and in love governed the gods and their mortal subjects, it was said that to see Sabaoth was to see the love of Origen himself made manifest. The gods looked out upon their universe, beholding its wonders, walking amongst the stars, swimming through the tides of space and time, loving and being loved. Sabaoth saw everything that was made and behold, it was very good. It was very good... until the dark dissenter reared his ugly head incurring the wrath of Origen and bringing about the twilight of the gods.

THE FIRST WRATH AND THE FALL OF EMPYREAN

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The wrath of Origen swept through his divine emanations and infected them with wrath incurable. The gods of empyrean were filled with rage and anger and wars began to break forth as god fought 'gainst god and all began to turn into demons. the war divine spilled forth into the mortal realm where the souls of penitent men and women were devoured by their once loving creators. Sabaoth saw the wickedness of the gods, that the imagination of their hearts was only evil continually so Sabaoth sacrificed himself to wipe the universe clean of all life both mortal and divine. the souls of the mortals sped to their eternal resting place in the bliss of the well of life, but the gods fell into the oblivion of the darkness in between the cracks of the multiverse... until one day the god of miracles woke up...

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THE ORIGINS OF THE GODS OF MARVEL: piecing together the gods and their creations

How the multiverse was created is a very iffy subject in marvel. there are many different stories of how everything came to be and most contradict each other. in this blog I will try to piece together the stories that fit with one another, like a puzzle, using both classic and modern interpretations of how all came to be.

OBLIVION

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Oblivion as you know is the abstract embodiment of absolute nothingness, and marvel calls him the brother of death, eternity and infinity, on the official wiki it says:

"Oblivion came into existence together with the cosmic entities Eternity, Infinity and Death when the universe was created and these beings see each other as siblings."

however right here is where the contradictions begin. How can oblivion be brother to the other abstracts when he was around before any of them came into existence? Oblivion did not come into existence when the universe was created, he is what birthed the universe! or is he... Oblivion does not like the multiverse in fact he hates it and tries to return it to nothingness so then where did the multiverse come from if not oblivion? who could have been around before all life? the embodiment of life or should I say the embodiment of potential life, the phoenix force!

THE PHOENIX FORCE

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from the official marvel wiki:

"Born of the void between states of being, the Phoenix Force is a child of the universe."

Actually, the phoenix is a child of oblivion AKA nothing as it was before the universe ever came to be. The phoenix force is the embodiment of potential for all life that is, was and ever will be, it is the creator of all. If oblivion had his way nothing would ever have come to be, but he could not stop the potential for life from eventually creating life. Now that we know that the phoenix is the creator we must find out what exactly it created, and this may shock you.

THE AESIR (The phoenix first born)

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I know, you are probably thinking this is a load of rubbish but here me out! In more modern times we have been given a new creation story, one which not only changes everything we knew about the marvel multiverse but also finally answers the nagging questions thor fans have about the difference between the Aesir and other gods.

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in the above scan it says:

"in the time before time, when fate was untethered and our threads yet unspun, the gods burst forth from the womb of the void, breaking the bonds of non-being."

Sound familiar? the womb of the void, the potential for life from nothing. the phoenix force birthed the first gods AKA ymir, surtur and buri. now you may be thinking, "why are you just mentioning Viking gods? what about zeus, Ra, and all the elder gods?" well that's a good question and it has a very simple answer, the other gods were not created then. we have a very good creation story for the elder gods and their offspring as told in classical times.

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the demiurge AKA the sentient life forces of earths bio-sphere spawned the elder gods including gaea, chthon, set ect. the elder gods then later spawned or birthed the divine pantheons of Olympus, heliopilus, ect. as you can see, the greek, Egyptian, sumarian, indian ect pantheons along with their progenitors came to be after the universe was formed and were spawned from the earth however, the Asgardians were around before earth ever existed, and in fact they created it!

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behold the world seed! as revealed in the pages of mighty thor the world seed was found by Bor who used it to create yggdrasil and all the nine realms. now if you didn't know...

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all the nine realms are full universes as we should expect for midgard is not just earth but the whole mortal universe of 616. what then does this mean? The prime universe of 616 did not exist meaning no other universes had split off into the multiverse, yet the asgardians existed along with oblivion and the phoenix force, so we realise that:

  • Oblivion, PF and the asgardians (along with ymir and surtur and death if somebody had died already) were all that existed so...
  • the world seed would in fact be an "egg" of the phoenix as oblivion only destroys and the aesir did not create it. then...
  • bor took this seed/egg and with it created all the nine realms including marvel 616, which shockingly means...
  • Bor created marvel 616, which means he created the earth which spawned the elder gods and their children! but that is not all..
  • in creating the marvel 616 universe bor would have created both eternity and infinity for they are the embodiments of the multiverse!

shocking isn't it? Oblivion "sired" the phoenix which in turn created the asgardians and gifted them the world seed which the gods used to create the universe which would become the multiverse and in so doing spawned eternity, infinity, the other abstracts, the elder gods, the divine pantheons, ect.

maybe there are a few holes in my theory, please point them out if there are. this was fun to write and I hope you enjoyed it :D

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THOR RESPECT THREAD: No longer holding back

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Welcome to the newest Thor respect thread! This RT is unique as it is dedicated only to Thor's high showings against foes from teambuster all the way to abstract level and a few other high end feats for Thor. this is how powerful the thunder god is when he unleashes his fury, this is bloodlusted no longer holding back Thor from across the ages. Also, at the end I will do a fun little tally to see how many of these feats are classic or modern, how many kills, how many KO's, how many wins against skyfathers, teambusters and abstracts ect. im looking forward to this and I hope you are to, so leave criticism and lowballing at the door because right now... its hammer time!

A GOD VS THE COSMIC BALANCE

Behold Thor's greatest hits as he takes on the cosmic gods and even multiversal abstracts!

THOR VS THE DEVOURER OF WORLDS

Thor and Big G have fought on many an occasion, in fact they were destined to fight in the future in the last great battle of midgard far after all human life goes extinct. Lets take a look at the young thunder god fighting the cosmic devourer.

A hammer throw from thor hurts galactus

A magic blast from Thor knocks Big G out of his ship

A blitz from thor staggers galactus

A hungry galactus knows a godblast would kill him

Thor's bull rush harms Big G

Thor blitzes Big G again and busts up his face

Thor provides one third of the power needed to gain galactus (fed) the scrier and the others attention

THOR VS EGO THE LIVING PLANET

Thor fought ego in the living planets very first appearance and the confrontation did not go well for the elder of the universe and rival of galactus.

Thor hits Ego with a thermo blast (the storm channeled into one blast). Ego flees in terror to escape death.

THOR VS THE MAD TITAN AND HIS CLONE

The mightiest avenger and the mad titan and his clone have fought a few times. while thor has never beaten thanos himself he has defeated his clone.

Thor returns thanosi's own power 100 fold back at him

Thor defeats thanosi with an anti-force blast

Thor staggers the real thanos with a lightning amped hammer strike

Thor (eric masterson) staggers IG thanos with a punch

Thor (eric masterson) layeth the smackdown on IG thanos for a while (he eventually loses but its still epic)

Thor unleashes a lightning strike that dwarfs planets, and it is so powerful it actually angers and gets the attention of cosmic cube thanos to gauge how impressive this is look at how big thanos was (he dwarfed planets)

THOR VS THE 4TH HOST

The celestials have been meddling in the affairs of men and gods since time immemorial, and as you might of guessed our favourite thunderer doesn't take kindly to it.

On the side of the right page you see thor hits a purple celestial and breaks it a little (this also doubles as a durability feat)

Thor godblasts exitar and breaks his braincase, however the energy output shattered mjolnir

Thor cuts Exitar's throat using jarnbjoern

THOR VS ANNIHILUS

Annihilus is a powerful being who rules the negative zone and rivals thanos for power.

Thor throws mjolnir and overpowers the cosmic control rod

Masterson thor beats annihilus amped by the odinforce.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/...ihilus01435.jpg

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THOR VS THE PHOENIX FORCE

The phoenix force is the embodiment of life itself in all the marvel multiverse, it was in the beginning and it will be at the end. Thor faced off against this force of nature during the Avengers vs X-men event and as the writer said, "Yea, the idea was basically the phoenix vs a god, which, seems like a fair fight." and to the chagrin of X-men fans and the delight of Thor fans it was.

Thor harms the PF with a lightning amped hammer throw

Thor blitzes down the length of the PF, harming it again

Thor harms the PF yet again with a lightning AOE

Thor KO's the embodiment of life itself (it got up soon after and demolished him, but its still epic!)

(MORE TO COME: Michael Korvac and apocalypse)

WAR IN THE HEAVENS

Thor is the champion of Asgard and as such he has fought the greatest foes the divine and hellish realms have to offer. Behold as Thor battles hell-lords, mystic abominations, Divine creations, sky fathers and even elder gods!

THOR VS THE DESTROYER

Thor and the destroyer have fought on several occasions and it is plain to see the destroyer is superior, however the thunderer has held his own against it.

Thor staggers the destroyer

After wanda resurrects him Thor starts to lay the smackdown on the destroyer

Thor knocks the destroyer down and BFR's him

THOR VS HELA

Hela is the asgardian goddess of death, an extremely powerful hell-lord yet Thor has fought her many a time and has even stomped her.

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Thor stomps Hela with ease.

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Thor wrestles Hela equally and with a bit of cunning comes out the victor. (all hela had to do was touch thor to win as her touch kills)

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Thor fights hela amped by the twilight sword equally for a while, however he does eventually lose. (notice how the only time she ever beat thor easy was when amped by the twilight sword?)

THOR VS THE MANGOG

The mangog is an evil creature powered by the hate of a billion billion beings. this evil behemoth makes hulk look like a weakling, and is one of thor's greatest foes.

Thor's blitz kick staggers the mangog

thor bashes around and blasts the mangog

Thor hits mangog so hard its horns break

Thor shoves mjolnir down his throat and unleashes the anti-force for the win

THOR VS SURTUR

Surtur is the eternal enemy of asgard, destined to burn the nine universes on the day of ragnarok. if you thought thor would never fight him because he is out of his league you thought wrong.

Thor unleashes wind on surtur that harms and pushes him back, but surtur recovers

Thor throws mjolnir with the power of a thousand suns at the speed of thought (surtur deflects it and stomps thor though)

THOR VS ZEUS

Zeus is the skyfather of Olympus and has said to be equal to Odin, yet the mighty thor has fought him well.

stalemates zeus in lightning projection for a bit

THOR VS PERRIKUS

Perrikus is an evil god of narcisson, the god of power. some say he is nigh skyfather level.

Thor absorbs perrikus energy and walks right through his energy beam and whacks him

Thor harms perrikus with a magic blast

Harms perrikus with a hammer throw

Thor demolishes perrikus

THOR VS GLORY

Glory is the embodiment of an evil pantheon, the writer compared him to an angry amped odin. did this stop thor from fighting him one on one? nope.

Thor blitzes straight through glory then hits him with an asteroid

Thor hurts glory with the wind of a thousand worlds

Kills Glory by channeling his energy back at him2

THOR VS THE DEMOGORGE

The demogorge is an elder god also known as Atum. he devoured and nearly caused the elder gods to go extinct. Demogorge was compared to eternity by the writer and is far above skyfathers in power.

Thor manages to harm atum with lightning

Thor kills the demogorge after fighting it from without and within

THOR VS THE CHAOS KING

The chaos king is the ultimate void, the anti-god. it destroyed 98% of the multiverse. thor didn't actually "fight it" but he did harm it.

Thor hurts amatsu-mikaboshi

(MORE TO COME: Pluto, Desak, Gorr)

DURABILITY FEATS

(COMING SOON)

MISCELLANIOUS FEATS

(COMING SOON)

FINAL TALLY

I will tally up thor's KO's, kills, wins, and modern vs classic showings once this is fully completed. if you know of any more showings please tell me so I can add them.

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Zarathos De-bunked

Zarathos and the Ghost Rider are extremely overrated, people say they are skyfather level, don't provide proof and actually get away with it! I have never seen a character with such mediocre feats be thought of so highly before and the ridiculousness needs to stop.

ZARATHOS UNDER HIS OWN POWER NEVER KILLED MEPHISTO

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People use this scan all the time to say Zarathos>mephisto, however this is a load of hogwash and boulderdash. The only reason Alejandra controlled by zarathos was able to beat mephisto was because Adam (the adam from the bible) amped her with massive amounts of power.

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Here Alejandra confirms that Adam amped her previously and here she asks him to amp her once again to fight mephisto, Adam responds by saying "Yes I will give you power! HUGE POWER!"

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and here is Adam amping Alejandra with huge power.

As you can see zarathos under his own power has never beaten mephisto, and even while amped he didn't kill mephisto as johnny blaze arrived and stopped Alejandra from killing mephy so everything about this is false.

DID GHOST RIDERS BATTLE BREAK HEAVENS GATES AND SHAKE THE NINE REALMS?

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People also use this feat to say Zarathos can shake universes because he did so while fighting Ketch, however this is absolutely false. Danny and Johnny's fight never left earth, so it was NOT them shaking the nine realms, so then who was?

Let me tell of the context before showing the scan that damns this feat. Danny had absorbed a bunch of spirits of vengeance (who are different than zarathos) and was trying to absorb zarathos out of johnny. Ketch ended up absorbing zarathos out of johnny when johnny got wrecked by gunfire, the ketch flew up to heaven. then suddenly GR's started raining from the sky, ketch landed naked in a crater and explained what happened.

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Danny says, ""All that power, I couldn't control it. He just pointed me where he wanted, like I was a gun... then he pulled the trigger." This means Zadkiel used Ketch like a gun or bomb, detonating the power of all the different spirits of vengeance Ketch had absorbed and thus breaking the walls of heaven. See? Zarathos was just a small piece of the puzzle, his power was just a little part in Zadkiels grand scheme to use all the spirits of vengeance. Zarathos never broke heaven or shook the nine realms, johnny and ketch never shook the realms with their fight, the whole feat isn't applicable to zarathos in the slightest.

WHAT IS ZARATHOS BEST FEAT?

since I just debunked the supposed best feats for zarathos you may be wondering what his best feat actually is, well here you go.

When Adam unleashed the full power of the Ghost Rider in Alejandra she caused a hellfire explosion that was mistaken for a nuke and destroyed a country. It left everyone in that area as lifeless zombies unable to act. (I don't think adam amped her with his own power here like in the other feats)

Zarathos best feat is country level hands down. I tried to find a better one and their just wasn't any.

WHAT WE HAVE LEARNED FROM THIS BLOG: Zarathos under his own power never beat mephisto, never shook the nine realms and his best feat is only country level. Zarathos is only high tier or high mid tier, he is not a skyfather level being.

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MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT CHRISTIANITY

I have been on the vine for a while now and had my share of religious debates and I have found that most people have a warped and misguided view of what Christianity actually is. I hope to clear up these misconceptions for everyone on this website and any seeker who stumbles upon this from across the internet.

ARE HUMANS BORN SINNERS?

No. There is not a single verse in scripture that supports this claim that infants are damned, in fact the Bible says the exact opposite numerous times.

Ezekiel 18:20, "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."

Deuteronomy 24:16, "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.”

Jeremiah 31:30, "But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge."

Romans 2:6 "Who will render to every man according to his deeds:"

John 9:2-3,

2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

These verses and many more show that the doctrine of original sin is utterly false. The belief that Adam and Eve sinning made all their offspring sinners from birth is completely unfounded; Adam's sin brought death into creation, however his offspring are still innocent until they have actually sinned as one cannot be guilty if no crime was ever committed. The doctrine of original sin was made up by the catholics to promote fear among the public.

WHAT WE HAVE LEARNED: Humans are born pure and innocent. Only after sinning can someone be called a sinner.

DOES GOD ENDORSE R***?

This is one of the weirdest things I have seen said on this forum and it seems to be a pretty popular opinion among non-Christians, however it is totally unfounded and stems from a lack of knowledge on the scriptures. In debate people use Deuteronomy 22:28-29 to say God is fine with r***...

28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

However they totally ignore the verses right before this!

25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die.

26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter:

27 For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her.

Verses 25, 26 and 27 are about r*** and show that r*** is punishable by death, verses 28 and 29 are about fornication, not r***. As it is plain to see God hates r***, he does not condone it in any way.

WHAT WE HAVE LEARNED: R*** is a horrible sin in Gods eyes punishable by death in the old testament, he does not condone it in any way.

ARE YOU TORMENTED FOREVER IN HELL?

The Christian hell is not a place of eternal punishment FOR HUMANS; this notion of everlasting, unjust torture was brought about thanks to the Catholics and is in fact a blasphemous teaching as it claims humans are immortal when the bible says God alone is immortal and he alone can give eternal life. Literally nowhere in the Bible does it say humans burn forever and ever, in fact the Bible says God has the power to DESTROY both soul and body in hell, not torture. The catholics created the eternal torment of hell as a means to scare the public, then they created purgatory as a place people wait before being sent to heaven or hell and while they wait you can pay money so they go to heaven, it was all a scam. In the Bible hell was created as the place of punishment for Satan and his fallen angels, however after man fell he was sentenced after death to hell for his sins but his torment would not be forever as God alone gives eternal life. It is not known how long sinners burn as time most likely does not work the same in such places, however as a Christian I believe God is a just God so the punishment will fit the crimes committed. Hell in fact will not exist forever as it will be consumed in the lake of fire at the end of all things.

WHAT WE HAVE LEARNED: humans do not burn forever in hell, in fact hell will not even exist forever as it is consumed at the end of days. The eternal burning in hell is a blasphemous doctrine as it claims the human soul is inherently immortal. The catholics created the concept of the eternal torment of hell as a way to make money off of people paying while souls were imprisoned in purgatory.

CHRISTIANITY RESPONSIBLE FOR HORRIBLE WORLD WARS AND MASS GENOCIDE?

This is used many times in debate as a cop out argument, however what most people don't seem to realise is that not a single massive war or genocide has been fought or carried out by actual Bible following Christians. The crusades were all done by the Catholics who are not true Christians and have in fact perverted Christianity to such a degree that most any time somebody brings up something they think is wrong with Christianity it actually originated from Catholicism. True Christians were in fact persecuted and massacred by Catholics for their beliefs.

Also what many people don't get is that if someone who claims to be a Christian does evil things, that means they are not a real Christian as they are not following Christ's teachings of loving your neighbour. So if anyone says, "Christianity is horrible because Christians have done so many awful things" you can tell them if a Christian does evil things that meas they are not a true Christian.

WHAT WE HAVE LEARNED: The horrible atrocities attributed to Christianity are in fact not Christian but catholic atrocities, as Catholics are not Christians by the fact they tortured and killed true Bible believers. Also if someone claims to be a Christian and does evil they are not a true Christian.

I hope that clears up some of the misconceptions about Christianity for you :D

3 Comments

ATHEISM TAKEN TO ITS CONCLUSION

As a Christian I will be writing this from a Christian perspective, however if you believe in another God/gods you can look at this article in that way to, as it applies to atheism which all religions must deal with and if you are an atheist I hope you read this rationally and perhaps learn something or realize something you never knew before.

INTRODUCTION

Where do morals come from? I am not talking about natural feelings like love, I am speaking of right and wrong. As a Christian from a young age I have been raised with a clear knowledge of good and bad, right and wrong, holiness and ungodliness, this is because I believe in God and have absolute trust in his law and will meaning whatever God says that must I do. I am certain this is not just how it is for Christians, as though all faiths differ from each other most have one thing in common, a belief in an higher power, a standard by which we all live and must live. As a Christian I know it is a sin to steal as God has said thou shalt not steal, therefore if someone steals from me I know they have done wrong and if I steal I know I must repent; you readers of other religions also believe stealing to be a sin as your God/gods have said it to be so, however nowadays a new movement has arisen and though it is accepted by most with open arms it has some very serious problems that must not be taken lightly, I of course speak of atheism and the problem of morality.

WHAT IS ATHEISM?

"Atheism is, in the broadest sense, the absence of belief in the existence of deities. Less broadly, atheism is the rejection of belief that any deities exist. In an even narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Atheism is contrasted with theism, which, in its most general form, is the belief that at least one deity exists."

As explained above atheists do not believe in any higher power, they think humanity is a cosmic accident, a soulless race of mammal that has by luck become the dominant species on this planet. Now as there is no concrete scientific proof of humans having souls the scientific community has gobbled up atheism like candy and since respectable scientists agree with its teachings the public has been swept up in it as well, however it seems no one has really thought about the philosophical and moral applications of atheism when taken to its fullest extent.

THE DANGEROUS MORAL APPLICATIONS OF ATHEISM

When I say the dangerous moral applications of atheism I actually mean the absence of any morals in atheism, let me explain.

As a Christian I believe in God as the omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient creator of all things, therefore God is the standard by which all live meaning whatever God says is right is right and whatever he says is wrong is wrong as he created everything and knows the beginning from the end. Since I believe this I can know what exactly is right and wrong and I can tell people if they are doing something wrong as I have a standard by which to judge. I think most religions also believe this way (though perhaps not exactly the same) and therefore can judge between right and wrong.

Atheism believe in no gods nor any higher power of any kind that guides humanity and shows the difference between right and wrong, in fact as I said before atheism believe we are no different than the chimpanzee or any other animal, therefore atheism is without morals. Now remember that when I speak of morals I do not mean the love between family members or the kindness of helping the poor, when I speak of morals I mean knowing that something is WRONG. Let us look at what horrors atheism taken to its fullest extant endorses.

THEFT

an atheist cannot tell someone theft is wrong, for if we are all no better than beasts a human stealing from another is no different than a monkey stealing fruit from its neighbours.

MURDER

an atheist cannot tell someone that murder is wrong, for if we are all soulless cosmic mistakes and no better than beasts there is no difference between murder and a lion killing a gazelle.

SEXUAL HARRASMENT (The R word)

an atheist cannot call R*** wrong, for if we are all no better than beasts a human harassing another in such a manner is no different than a dog or a cat forcefully mating.

as you can plainly see atheism and life without God is a life without morals, for if we have no divine standard by which to live we cannot rightly tell anyone what they are doing is wrong or right as it is all relative and anyone may do as they please with no regard for others if they so choose. Atheism not only shows such wicked acts to be permissible but indeed gives excuse for horrendous atrocities like the holocaust as if we are no better than animals what is the difference between genocide and putting down stray dogs?

A QUESTION TO ATHEISTS

Here is a very important question to atheists, and yes I know I have most likely triggered an immense amount of people by the time you have finished reading this post, however I hope you will rationally read and answer this question, after all atheists are supposed to pride themselves on rational thinking.

As an atheist, believing in no God or divine standard by which to live and therefore not believing in right and wrong as you have nothing to judge them by, who are you to judge the likes of Hitler, Stalin, Nero and other mass murdering psychopaths? Who are you to say they were monsters, or that what they did was horrible, when you believe humans have no business even existing in the first place?

I and other believers in God do not have this moral dilemma. I hope to hear all your thoughts.

262 Comments

CELESTIALS OVERRATED? THE TRUE POWER OF ODIN, SURTUR AND THE SKYFATHERS AND HELL LORDS OF MARVEL

Are the Celestials overrated? Are Odin and by extension the other sky fathers and hell lords of Marvel underrated? Let us delve into this subject to find the truth.

THE CELESTIAL PARADOX

the celestials were created to be the new standard of power, great cosmic beings guiding evolution throughout the Marvel multiverse. Everyone knows these cosmic beings are immensely powerful and this usually leads to much overrating and believing celestials dwarf gods and hell lords in power by a considerable amount while ignoring consistency. To find out the truth we must go to the beginning to find where the problem started.

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The leader of the 4th host, the great judge Arishem. In this scan we see Odin, Zeus and Vishnu combine their full might in an attack to try and fell Arishem, they fail. Arishem tanks the attack without even budging. This scan is indeed epic, however it is NOT a true showing of celestials power levels and is in fact PIS. Now I know people don't like hearing well known feats are PIS but please do not call me a fanboy, there is consistent evidence over decades to support my claim.

Firstly, in that scan it says the combined might of Odin, Zeus and Vishnu was enough to throw a planet from its orbit, this is horrible writing as everyone knows Odin>>>Thor and thor by armwrestling has thrown a planet out of orbit, plus Odin alone has feats that make throwing a world look like nothing.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11120/111200398/4697071-6306165603-Odinv.jpg Odin creates a galaxy wide explosion.

http://i.imgur.com/piq8fGJ.jpg while Odin's soul was halved his battle destroys galaxies.

http://i.imgur.com/mvM5Ntl.jpg Odin's fight with seth reignites long dead galaxies.

Odin also has several other feats that confirm he is galaxy to multigalaxy to universal level in power. Seeing as Odin alone can destroy galaxies it is obvious PIS that the combined might of Odin and his equals was only planetary.

Secondly, Arishem though powerful is not as powerful as Exitar the destroyer, in fact Arishem basically acts as Exitar's herald, judging worlds then summoning exitar to destroy them. Let us see how well Exitar has done against the gods.

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  1. thor breaks exitar's armour (may have been wearing his belt of strength)
  2. Thor busts open Exitar's braincase with his godblast.

Thor with a hammer swing and a godblast was able to damage Exitar twice and Exitar is the superior of arishem. Does that not seem fishy to you? If Thor who is only high herald level can harm Exitar then Odin should definitely be able to harm Arishem and the combined might of Odin and his peers should be able to seriously harm if not kill him!

You may still be hesitant to believe because of how old the scans are, however even in modern times when the gods are being written poorly It has been shown Thor can hurt Exitar.

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Thor with the advice of Loki (who was kang in disguise) found out that there is an enchantment only usable by Odin or his kin that imbues an object with the power to pierce celestial armour. Thor enchanted his axe with his blood and thus was able to bleed the Celestial Exitar. If Odin's enchantments can harm celestials then it stands to reason he is on their level

Let us look at the evidence. Thor was able to break celestial armour twice and with a spell created by Odin was able to bleed a celestial, this proves celestials are not so far above sky fathers. If Odin's enchantments can harm celestials then it stands to reason he is on their level and if his herald level son is able to harm them Odin can most definitely harm them.

If you are not yet convinced let us look at how Odin, Zeus, Mephisto, Thanos, Thor and Beta Ray bill have faired against a being more powerful than most celestials, Galactus.

THOR VS GALACTUS

http://i.imgur.com/WSKJMwx.jpg knocks over galactus.

http://i.imgur.com/b7Cwf25.jpg knocks him over again.

http://i.imgur.com/1WpCk32.jpg hurts galactus with a hammer throw. (big g was weakened)

http://i.imgur.com/jdqpaub.jpg Nearly kills him with a godblast (galan was weakened)

BRB VS GALACTUS

http://i.imgur.com/JOnneL7.jpg Cleaves through Big G's blast and harms him.

ZEUS VS GALACTUS

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11119/111197929/4904364-1143991474-14895.jpg Harms Big G with a punch.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11119/111197929/4904366-1151152826-15699.jpg Defeats Galactus.

Zeus may have been amped slightly though it is not said and I don't know how fed Galactus was.

THANOS VS GALACTUS

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=thanos+vs+galactus&view=detailv2&&id=E0E87768081D950267E03DB1A024362AD5486403&selectedIndex=23&ccid=8FAH%2fPF1&simid=608039066668568428&thid=OIP.Mf05007fcf1754b4d455bb9471c541baao0 blasts big G so hard...

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=thanos+vs+galactus&view=detailv2&&id=69B31FC9B93C0792C7798AF446AB1F2B27AB502E&selectedIndex=6&ccid=lXjZKMoD&simid=608047484799680950&thid=OIP.M9578d928ca03ef972b747475d441e035o0

His armour gets torn apart.

MEPHISTO VS GALACTUS

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=mephisto+vs+galactus&view=detailv2&&id=12DF83F650DEABC77C9D77776522479652CD784E&selectedIndex=7&ccid=jMxVr%2fIz&simid=608001593080349646&thid=OIP.M8ccc55aff233eef811d0565be35b784eo0 battles evenly.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=mephisto+vs+galactus&view=detailv2&&id=4A0E1BB20C5D9C354F9961658C9C182A47467059&selectedIndex=3&ccid=9YsitdMx&simid=607994755485731444&thid=OIP.Mf58b22b5d33106014e7574a6e4e0f5f8o0 Mephy bests big G.

ODIN VS GALACTUS

http://i.imgur.com/VU5NEwC.jpg stalemates big G for a long while in TP.

http://i.imgur.com/nyY1ZGG.jpg headbutts Big G.

http://i.imgur.com/VAEIjjm.jpg momentarily KO's both himself and galactus.

People say galactus was weakened however there is no proof of this, in fact Big G ate before confronting asgard.

s1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii483/hypergod616/Galactus_related/Fights/Odin/Hunger%20Level/GalanFedConfirmation01_zpsd34c4465.jpg

s1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii483/hypergod616/Galactus_related/Fights/Odin/Hunger%20Level/GalanFedConfirmation02_zpsc04b1db3.jpg

After seeing this you may now be doubting Big G is more powerful than celestials, don't doubt it.

http://imgur.com/PDZTooW Big G oneshots a mad celestial.

http://i.imgur.com/kdyzDmS.jpg Galactus rips a mad celestial in half (the celestial did have a hole in it made by AFR)

not only does this prove Odin can kill celestials as he has fought evenly with Big G before but it also proves the argument that celestials armour is an M-body and destroying it will not kill a celestial is ridiculous, as we see they can be killed physically and with energy.

Some people say the celestials live and fight on every metaphysical plane of existence so Odin and other sky fathers cannot really harm or kill them, this is obviously false as I have shown galactus killing them with pure physical force however even if it is true Odin can still kill them as it is a fact when Odin fights he does so on every metaphysical plane of existence.

http://i.imgur.com/mvM5Ntl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/RiCmUYs.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Sorcery/LokiAstralForm08455.jpg

WHAT WE HAVE LEARNED SO FAR

  1. Arishem tanking the skyfathers attack is PIS and in fact should have been seriously injured or dead.
  2. Even herald level characters can harm celestials.
  3. Odin and other sky fathers by feats (discounting the PIS arishem one) are definitely capable of harming celestials by themselves.
  4. Even if celestial's armour are M-bodies and they exist on every plane of existence Odin and by extension other sky fathers and hell lords can still kill them.

We see now Skyfathers and hell lords are not dwarfed in power by celestials, but how powerful are skyfathers and hell lords really? To find this out we must look at Odin and his immortal enemy surtur as they are the ones given the most showings.

ODIN AND SURTUR UNIVERSAL/MULTIVERSAL?

First thing you must realise and accept is that the nine realms are in fact universes, not pocket dimensions or pocket universes. Odin himself has said the nine realms of yggdrasil are universes but we also have this to further prove the point.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/136...ne-007.jpg.html

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/136...ne-008.jpg.html

These two scans together show that

  1. the nine realms though connected in some way to earth 616 are separate from the main universe, which is why ragnarok does not affect earth.
  2. If Surtur were to ever unleash his full power in the main universe it would burn EVERYTHING, not just the universe but the multiverse.

Surtur being a multiversal threat is in fact not PIS as it would simply mean he is on the same level as his fellow hell lord Dormammu, who like surtur could burn the multiverse if he ever finally gets into the main universe. People will say this is not his true power but this is untrue. Surtur tricked the Manchester gods into taking the eternal flames into otherworld where he could unleash them into the multiverse and burn it down. The eternal flame is in fact an artifact forged by Surtur himself and was stolen by Odin, vili and Ve millennia ago. Surtur needed to get the eternal flame (which is his own creation and his own power) into otherworld where it would not be confined to the nine realms and thus could bring about multiversal ragnarok. Thusly, it was Surtur's own power. After seeing this let us look at Odin and Surturs best feats.

SURTUR

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums.../Thor293-16.jpg

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums.../Thor293-17.jpg

Surtur destroyed the nine realms of old except for midgard as it is in the 616 universe and Surtur's power does not extend their.

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums...r_V1337_p01.jpg

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums...r_V1337_p02.jpg

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums...r_V1337_p03.jpg

destroys a galaxy just forging his sword.

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc412/igniz6/Surtur/PowerLvl/Clash/Thor352-04.jpg

Surtur's attack is felt throughout the nine universes.

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums...horV4-19-07.jpg

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums...horV4-19-08.jpg

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums...horV4-19-09.jpg

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums...horV4-19-10.jpg

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums...horV4-19-11.jpg

Surtur's flames begin to burn the nine universes.

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums...horV4-18-15.jpg

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums...horV4-18-16.jpg

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums...horV4-18-17.jpg

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums...horV4-18-18.jpg

burns the world tree.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/136...ne-007.jpg.html

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/136...ne-008.jpg.html

Loki says once Surtur's power is no longer contained everything will burn.

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums...horV4-20-16.jpg

Surtur confirms/explains that once his power is no longer contained in the realms of yggdrasil everything will burn, EVERYTHING.

ODIN

http://i.imgur.com/mvM5Ntl.jpg blasts seth with the power to destroy galaxies and reignite stars.

http://i.imgur.com/RiCmUYs.jpg Fights on every metaphysical plane of reality.

http://i.imgur.com/B4CX3ep.jpg fixes the damage done to all the galaxies and worlds he destroyed.

http://i.imgur.com/BpWKwxa.jpg manipulates all the electro-magnetic particles in the universe to trap surtur.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RUycSBcxNu8/U71uwKpa7rI/AAAAAAAD-NM/cKDwdPmCJEY/s1600/-002.jpg Tears the angelic universe from its place, manipulates it and imprisons the whole universe in a hut.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/9/91339/3057957-thorv4-21-18.jpg contains Surtur's universe destroying flame.

http://i.imgur.com/sTScFs7.jpg takes an attack that is felt throughout the space time continuum.

http://i.imgur.com/ZjbM2cG.jpg Odin kills Surtur over and over and over again.

http://i.imgur.com/Kvbzazb.jpg http://i.imgur.com/piq8fGJ.jpg http://i.imgur.com/a3iJIIx.jpg http://i.imgur.com/a3iJIIx.jpg http://i.imgur.com/2EDgbgm.jpg

Half of Odin's soul is powerful enough to destroy galaxies and Odin's fight with it destroys many galaxies and is felt throughout the universe.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/139933/3595759-journeyintomystery513p05.jpg Odin's battle with Seth was tearing at the fabric of the multiverse.

So then what is the true power of Odin and Surtur? It is hard to say exactly but by looking at all feats it seems we find that Odin is Universal or universal + while Surtur is also universal + but like Dormammu if he ever were to get his full power into the main universe he could burn everything down.

SUMMARY

  1. Celestials do not dwarf skyfathers or hell lords in power, in fact by feats Odin and Surtur should be above most of them.
  2. Odin is universal to universal + in power.
  3. Surtur in the nine realms is universal +, and if he were to ever get into the main universe he could burn the multiverse down.
  4. Damaging Celestial armour can kill celestials and thus the M-body armour theory of celestial invulnerability is ridiculous and unfounded.

I hope this was informative to you all :D

74 Comments

EMH THOR RESPECT THREAD

EMH Thor was awesome, a nigh perfect rendition of Thor from the comics. EMH's days are done but let us never forget how great it and its characters were. Long live Thor Odinson!

POWERS

  • class 100 strength
  • nigh invulnerability
  • master fighter
  • mystic weather control
  • hypersonic flight with and without mjolnir
  • portal creation
  • lightning teleportation
  • energy absorption and redirection

STRIKING STRENGTH AND FIGHTING SKILL

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thor oneshots ultron. (ultron's head was not screwed on all the way. please tell me how to remove this image)

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oneshots a kree space ship.

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oneshots kree sentinels.

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ragdolls graviton.

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busts up ultron.

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Smacks around the super skrulls.

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smacks around the masters of evil.

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creates massive shockwaves while fighting Jotun's.

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harms his universes Galactus

ENERGY PROJECTION AND RANGE

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humbles Galactus

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godblast

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takes down a skrull war ship

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makes short work of the Kree military

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Fries Kang

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oneshots three frost giants with a bolt almost as big as asgard.

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storm covers most of the world.

DURABILITY BOTH ENERGY AND PHYSICAL

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withstands graviton's heavy gravity and even gets up from it.

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gets a massive asgardian sky scraper dropped on him and is unharmed.

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withstands and redirects a city destroying energy beam. (was KOed after but no serious harm done)

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gets hit by visions increased mass 500 ton drop...

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isn't harmed at all.

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tanks the shockwaves of a bomb capable of wiping out all life on earth. (thor hurled the bomb far away from earth so the shockwaves were not as powerful as the actual bomb, still a great feat)

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is only slightly hurt by a pummeling from URU absorbing man

LIFTING AND THROWING STRENGTH

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hurls a world killing bomb far into the solar system.

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slows a falling chunk of Manhattan far exceeding 100 tons.

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stops a punch from abomination.

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lifts and throws a frost giant after stopping its downward sword swing.

FLYING SPEED

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easily flies faster than the quinjet

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flies out of the planets atmosphere in seconds without using mjolnir.

MISCELLANIOUS ABILITIES

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creates windy vortexes to blow back enemies and disperse radiation.

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Can destroy energy beings.

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can teleport using lightning.

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can create portals.

49 Comments
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