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Arcus1

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Time for a bump, I edited the OP to have a few different rounds

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@arcus1:

This isn't my opinion, but I've seen some people trying to blame Iroh for Azula's issues (saying he should have tried to save her like he tried to save Zuko, citing the "she's crazy and she needs to go down" line). That's, imo, an unpopular (and wrong) opinion, if anyone would like to discuss.

I think Iroh could have done more in Azulas youth to at least get to know her a bit better (since it seems clear he doesn't know anything about her evidenced by getting her a doll), but Azula does come across as a bad egg, with her more nasty characteristics being encouraged by her father and her mother (indirectly, as she seemed to act out to get Ursa's attention).

Do you think Azula needs a redemption arc? I'm of the unpopular opinion that she works very well as a villain and foil to Zuko and that not every character needs to be redeemed (though I do want to see more of her in the comics).

Imo, her and Katara are an even match (presuming a balanced environment)

Toph is an even match for characters like Katara bending wise but may main problem with Toph and why I tend to vote against her in fights like this is because a)she lacks good showings against other non-earthbenders in a dueling scenario and b) Yaling and Aang have shown that disrupting her sisemic sense is a very effective means to work around her often superior bending (in comparison to the opponent she is facing). Katara for example, can abuse ice slides and bridges to disrupt Tophs senses and land clean hits.

I would agree that Azula doesn't need a redemption arc. As a character, she is absolutely best as a foil to Zuko. I can work with the hints of redemption she got in the comics where she and Zuko are looking for their mom, but I don't think she should be turned into a true ally of Zuko

Eh, the exact limitations of Toph's seismic sense tend to be somewhat iffy. Regarding ice bridges, for example, Toph was perfectly capable of targeting Katara's ice bridge when they had their "fight" in S3. If Katara and Toph were to have an actual fight in the show/comics, in an even environment, I have a hard time seeing Katara getting an easy win. Even with Yailing, she was just at a brief disadvantage against Yailing's agility/ambush (in a chaotic environment) before recovering. I think it is a weakness that can be exploited, just not necessarily to the degree I've seen some people argue for

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Assuming he starts near the ocean, he can beat most people here

Pakku, honestly, would be one of the better matchups for him. Unalaq has better feats from his fight with Korra, but Pakku's limited showings still give him status as a versatile, powerful master waterbender.

Jeong Jeong doesn't have enough combat showings, Ghazan doesn't have the raw power or versatility-and he can't get to Unalaq if Unalaq gets to the ocean. Zaheer can evade but he doesn't have the offense to win. P'li has the raw power to contend, but with an ocean to work with Unalaq should be able to defend against/outmaneuver her. Ming Hua doesn't have sufficient showings with this amount of water, and Unalaq's reputation as a master is just as good as hers, imo. Iroh has comparable status in his respective element, but in this environment I don't see him winning.

Bumi, however, has the status and feats to contend here, imo. While he has limited showings, he does have some insane power and respectable versatility. I could see him winning

None of them have any means of beating Unavaatu, physical attacks aren't gonna cut it

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Wasn't looking for this matchup, but it's a good one, imo

However the fights break down, I could see it going either way

I don't see Zuko as a weak link like some are suggesting, he's a tier above Mako in firebending and Mako showed he could at least pressure Ming Hua in the RL cave. Granted, Ming Hua will be in better fighting shape here, so it definitely wouldn't be as easy as it was for Mako in the finale, but it won't be a repeat of Mako fighting Ming Hua at night at Misty Palms either. And while Ghazan's lava would be new for Zuko, Zuko does have the offensive power to pressure Ghazan's defenses as well (it won't be like the North Pole, where an old Zuko's trying to fight Ghazan at night in a site chosen specifically because it would be cold enough to suppress firebending).

Kuvira vs Ghazan or Ming Hua would be interesting as well. Kuvira and Ghazan are largely on opposite ends of the earthbending spectrum, and honestly it'd be very interesting to see how they'd go about fighting each other. Ming Hua would be problematic for Kuvira, honestly that might be the one matchup here where I could give one of them an edge (Ming's agility would help against Kuvira's fast paced offense, her water arm style would help her continue to bend if she gets tagged, and we've seen her bust metal-providing her a means to remove Kuvira's metal strips without metalbending). The metal sheets do help provide Kuvira with additional defense against Ming

I might go for the Red Lotus, slightly. They should have better teamwork than Kuvira and Zuko (though the inclusion of time for Kuvira and Zuko to learn to work together does help mitigate that), and I think Ming has a slight edge over Kuvira. However, I could also see arguments for Zuko having a similar edge over Ghazan via raw power right from the start. I would imagine an earthbender of Ghazan's implied caliber would be able to hold his own, but it hasn't been explicitly shown in feats. If either Zuko or Kuvira are able to isolate Ghazan and go full offense on him from the start, I could see them winning, but it won't take long for Ghazan to start building momentum

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I could see this going 50/50, maybe an edge to Zaheer considering the environment (but I'm not sure there'd be a much fairer environment, maybe one with a tad more metal-but not too much). I guess this is my thread, so I could always change the environment

The main problem here is that airbending has been shown to be a good counter to Kuvira's preferred stye of offense (the metal strips). She could end it with one good hit, but I'm not entirely sure she'd be able to land that shot. If she mixes it up more and incorporates more earthbending (shields and larger scale attacks) I could see her winning. But while she has the implied skill level to do so, she doesn't have that many showings

That being said, this is a fight I would definitely enjoy seeing, and I think it would be pretty close (even if Zaheer appears to have the edge during the fight, Kuvira would just need one opening-neutral jing). It'd be interesting to see how she'd approach an opponent like Zaheer

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Y'all crazy

Anyway, idk if this is an unpopular opinion persay, but:

People slept on Korra's fight with Tarrlok in S1-it's a good showing of

  • Korra's preparation for a classic bending battle: this is the only fight she has against a master bender in all of S1, and she wrecks him. Her lower showings in S1 are against opponents she's completely unprepared to face (the result of growing up sheltered in the compound), but she was clearly trained quite well for fighting other benders
  • The usefulness of multiple elements: Tarrlok's water shield/spike attack was an excellent counter to 2 of Korra's elements: fire and water. We saw the shield hold up quite well against Korra's sustained fire (indicating a solid defense against firebending) and the relentless offense would help prevent follow up power moves that could break through. Plus, I'd imagine that a flurry of small attacks would be more difficult for a waterbender to redirect than a single, more focused attack. However, while his technique was well suited for fire and water bending, it wasn't well suited against earthbending

For all of the ATLA comics flaws, I think they do a good job setting up the origins of Republic City and the development of technology that led to LOK level tech. While LOK did have a pretty significant technological jump, we saw that the Fire Nation already had tech for things like airships or the Drill, even rudimentary radio (Sokka used some sort of communication tech to announce a message to the airship crew during Sozin's Comet). When you add in the advantages of bender-powered production seen in the comics (a precursor to lightning bending as a source of energy) and the merging of tech-minded people from other nations, the jump seems reasonable, imo

Overall, LOK is not as good of a show as ATLA, but it never could have been. Between the circumstances of its development (S1 envisioned as a miniseries that wasn't supposed to continue, the rush on S2, and the overall limit on the number of episodes), and the inevitable sequel syndrome-it'd be impossible for it to fully match ATLA. That doesn't mean it doesn't have great stories in its own right, exploring things ATLA never did (the biggest flaw often being that they simply weren't given enough episodes to fully delve into some of the plots they had, imo)

Toph's seismic sense doesn't offer her any particular advantage in combat compared to sight, except that she can "see" in 360 and around obstacles to normal sight. It's not some sort of magic move-reading technique. I've also seen sort of a reverse take on Toph around here, that she's not actually particularly good compared to the other elite ATLA benders (a view that, imo, was both a response to Toph sometimes getting overrated and also her possible lower showing in Imbalance). While she's not immune to getting tagged as some have historically suggested, she's still quite clearly a fantastic fighter with a well deserved reputation. Imo, her and Katara are an even match (presuming a balanced environment)

This isn't my opinion, but I've seen some people trying to blame Iroh for Azula's issues (saying he should have tried to save her like he tried to save Zuko, citing the "she's crazy and she needs to go down" line). That's, imo, an unpopular (and wrong) opinion, if anyone would like to discuss.

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I'm thinking Zuko/Katara for both rounds, but narrowly (and I could potentially see it going to Tenzin/Lin as well)

I feel like the teams are pretty comparable, Tenzin would be a good match for Katara in this location and Lin would be a good match for Zuko (I think Tenzin would beat Zuko and Katara would beat Lin in this environment). The relative lack of feats for Lin/Tenzin does hurt them here, I'd say

It's possible that Lin could take Zuko, especially with this amount of metal, and then she could help Tenzin beat Katara. But I'm not sure, I could also see Zuko taking Lin (especially if she doesn't make full use of the ship, which she might not). Tenzin vs Katara would probably take a while and could be determined by whoever gets help from their partner

If it's the other way, I think Zuko could occupy Tenzin long enough for Katara to ovewhelm Lin

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  • PHYSICAL STRENGTH - Bolin
  • PHYSICAL/MOVEMENT SPEED - Maybe Kuvira
  • AGILITY - 50/50, honestly could go either way I think. Bolin's possibly more acrobatic, tbh
  • DURABILITY- probably Bolin
  • PHYSICAL COMBAT/ MARTIAL ARTS - Not a lot to go on for either of them
  • WEAPON ADVANTAGE - Kuvira has more gear, so I guess her
  • COMBAT SPEED - Kuvira, they're probably comparable in base earthbending but Kuvira's metalbending techniques are faster
  • REACTION TIME - 50/50, they're probably comparable
  • ATTACK PRECISION- Kuvira
  • BENDING SCALE- Bolin
  • BENDING POTENCY- not sure
  • BENDING SKILL- eh maybe Kuvira, Bolin has the better pure earthbending feats but I think Kuvira's implied to be comparable if not superior
  • BENDING/DRAW SPEED - Kuvira
  • BENDING CONTROL/CONNECTION- probably Kuvira, going by the way she manipulates her armor
  • BENDING VERSATILITY - if bending versatility means variations on base earthbending (ie not a subelement), then maybe Bolin
  • SUB-BENDING - Bolin has the rarer ability, Kuvira's more refined with hers though. If they fought with just their sub-elements, Kuvira would likely win (assuming she had her gear/sufficient metal)
  • BENDING MOBILITY - Bolin's done more with earth jumps and underground travel, but I don't think it's anything Kuvira couldn't do (she just hasn't had as many showings), 50/50
  • COMBAT STRATEGY- Kuvira
  • ADAPTIVE MIND - maybe Kuvira, though Bolin did adapt to Ghazan with his newly discovered lavabending pretty well
  • ENVIRONMENTAL AWARENESS - 50/50, maybe Kuvira based on her general vibe as a more tactical fighter, I think
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Under these conditions, with an environment that favors waterbenders and a full moon, I could honestly see him clearing them all.

Water tribe avatar might be the toughest, as Pakku's in theory a good match for Unalaq solo. He's just somewhat lacking in the feats department, and the rest of the composite doesn't offer a lot to help.

Air Nomad Avatar is possibly the most well balanced, with Tenzin, Lin, and Zuko all offering solid contributions (Tonraq's decent but we already know he's outclassed by Unalaq). The main problem is, I'm not sure this combination of skills is much better than Korra. I could go either way, this one might actually be the toughest fight/most likely to win. Full moon hurts them though.

He beats the Earth Kingdom Avatar, in this environment Unalaq's raw power is going to be too much for them. Tarrlok could theoretically be problematic-I'd expect a master waterbender strong enough to bloodbend without a full moon to be a powerful opponent, but he just didn't get enough feats to really compete. Kuvira's at an environmental disadvantage, Mako's outclassed, and Jinora's not much of a fighter

Fire Nation avatar also loses. Azula's at an environmental disadvantage, fighting a waterbender in this environment at night under a full moon. Lightning could help but I don't see it being a game changer. Su is also outclassed here, Hama's past her prime, and Opal doesn't offer much that's applicable on this level.