AMS

DCnU Deathstroke is a chump.

@Delta1938: Eclipso is a chump as proven when possessing anyone near remotely any decent or high tier, even in the driving seat of Superman, Eclipso was made to look like a chump in record time by Capt Marvel when normally it's a stalemate or long fight as we all well know that Marvel eventually wins if Supes is fighting him normally. Eclipso it's self claimed Mon El was more powerful than Superman but yet lost the fight............

If I drive a Formula One car terribly is it the cars fault? Anyone high tier getting possessed by Eclipso is almost an automatic downgrade in almost all cases.

You seem hung up on these two scans. The fact is, I posted them but where did I write anything saying after either or both. Your trying to put an argument and words into my mouth that I don't recall making.

The only things I have said so far and I qoute:

''Yeah bro when the Crisis happened Supes and Krypto's still around got depowered but Mon El and the other Daxamites still around stayed pre crisis strength levels and when he was Valor he was still throwing around moons and lifting the cores out of stars still''. = true.

''In the original Legion comics Superboy always said Mon El was stronger than him but yeah they've messed around with his and Daxam levels multiple times now like Mon El and Daxamities where always stated as stronger than Krypto's and used to not be affected by a Red Sun like Kryptos where and lead was there only weakness but they've changed all that as well.'' = true

@AMS said:

@termiteone4ever: He was pretty much hovering still in the realms of pre-crisis levels feats as Valor. Also Mon El in all his forms has always been older and more experienced in his powers than Superman.

= Again true, the downscale of Daxamites and Mon El was starting by then but he was still doing an occasional Pre Crisis level feat here and there on the way down to rock bottom.

''It's not hard to see why so many people believe the misconception that Mon El is actually weaker than Superman when they've messed around with the continuity so much.''

= True up until after Early Post Crisis he was stronger than Supes FACT. He and the Daxamites took a hell of a downgrade later on and especially in L.E.G.I.O.N. again FACT but the downscaling was inevitable because they couldn't have people keep doing Pre Crisis stuff any-more obviously and New Krypton while a great story pooped on him and Daxamites once again from above again retconning them and downscaling them, hence why I said it's not hard if people don't know the character think he's always been weaker. If you have only read the recent stuff with Mon El it's not hard to think he must be a lamer and weaker version of Supes when in fact he never was initially and only in modern times has taken up that mantle.

So again what do I have to refute?

That the 2 fights with Supes Post crisis are 1:1 to both and lame examples because both have extenuating circumstances in regards to Legion being there and Eclipso.

That if Supes was PC level he could push or pull a moon on his own?

That pushing a moon solo is a PC level feat?

Who isn't supposedly Mon El/Lar Gand? Cause last time I checked LO3W brought back the majority of past history back into continuity before the DCnU reboot.

@LONGTIME: You mean if there is a ref to stop Bruce from kicking, illegal blows and 10-12 oz gloves more like.......

Yojimbo

@CitizenBane: You might want to back up there little buddy....I didn't say he did but in regards to doing otherwise impossible things such as making Darkseid flinch with a kick or tagging Superman he has thanks to the godlike jobber aura he possessed pre DCNU.

Normal Bats Jobber Aura has clowned Darkseid and the Boyscout so I wouldn't take Vamp Bats getting killed in Countdown by Godlike Bats too seriously.

@PaperRonin: Solid team.

Bruce would beat Jake.

I'm going to give it to the Elder Pred imo but I believe Conan could down a less experienced one.

Mantis could beat Midnighter........